So are ice fishermen all poachers?

[Bigtoad]

I fly fish in the summer and ice fish in the winter. I'm all for catch and release fishing and anyone that has read my posts on quality lakes, etc. knows how passionately I believe in reduced harvest of stocked trout lakes that are aerated to grow bigger fish.

So I understand and appreciated why places like Beaver and Fiesta have limited harvest or C&R regs. However, what I don't understand/appreciate is why does SRD not allow ice fishing on these lakes?

These lakes don't allow bait of any kind so my first thought is that is why it isn't allowed. But ice fishermen can have great success for trout through the ice without using bait. If there is a no bait regulation, then don't use bait in the summer or winter. Seems simple enough.

In my mind, it would be similar to saying, "Spin cast fishermen often use bait, therefore, spin casting is not allowed." Well, what about all of the spin fishermen that follow the regs and don't use bait when it's not allowed?

Or is it that SRD thinks that ice fishermen are all poachers and people sitting in dark shacks can't be trusted? Is it just too tempting when you're sitting in the dark to slip on some bait or stash a few trout in your trousers while no one is looking? Seems a bit presumptuous, no? On the verge of discriminatory really...

I don't get it?

The ONLY reasonable argument that I can think of is that often ice fishermen will let the fish flop on the ice before releasing it, which can be harmful to the fish. But again, how many times have I seen spin casting and fly fishermen letting a trout thrash around on the rocks/grass/dirt on shore or bashing themselves unconscious on the bottom of their aluminum boat? But that is a fish-handling issue that runs across all types of fishing, not just in ice fishing. Education is needed here, not shutting down ice fishing altogether.

So again I ask, what's the deal here SRD? Why no ice fishing?

Cheers.

[Fishingaddict]

Are you saying they are thinking about saying no more ice fishing anywhere in alberta?

[fishin_guy]

I used to live in Hinton and was an avid catch and release fly fisherman. I now reside in Manitoba. Manitoba has a stocking trout program and people are asking for changes. What they find a lot here ice fishing is that people use a treble hook vs a single hook with a ball of powerbait attached. This causes the fish to inhale the bait causing the treble hook to catch all three barbs deep inside the fish. Many fish do not survive.

[Bigtoad]

Originally Posted by fishin_guy

I used to live in Hinton and was an avid catch and release fly fisherman. I now reside in Manitoba. Manitoba has a stocking trout program and people are asking for changes. What they find a lot here ice fishing is that people use a treble hook vs a single hook with a ball of powerbait attached. This causes the fish to inhale the bait causing the treble hook to catch all three barbs deep inside the fish. Many fish do not survive.

Yes, but there is already no-bait allowed on Beaver and Fiesta (and others) so although your point is valid, it doesn't affect why ice fishing is not allowed on these stocked lakes... unless of course, SRD believes that ice fishermen are more likely to poach than other fishermen, which brings me back to my initial question.

[CamoDerrick]

I've wondered this myself.

I originally thought it was because these lakes are aerated which greatly increases the occurrence of thin ice. This point is moot though because there are other lakes that are aerated which are open to ice fishing (and yes, a lot of people stand too close to the open water and fall in).


I think it is because the fly fisherman have convinced the government to give these lakes to them, and ergo nobody else can fish it when they can't (winter).

I'm sure you will get an answer from someone on here.

[Bigtoad]

Originally Posted by CamoDerrick

I think it is because the fly fisherman have convinced the government to give these lakes to them, and ergo nobody else can fish it when they can't (winter).

If fly fishermen had the ear of the gov't then there would be a lot more quality fisheries in this province, that much I know. And I fly fish and enjoy ice fishing too. And I'm not alone. Don't think it's the fly fishermen...

[waterninja]

have you called srd to ask why there is no ice fishing allowed on those 2 lakes? i can feel your frustration as i would be a little upset if they closed salter or spring lakes to ice fishing (both aereated) because they are close to me. be interested to hear their reason.
or perhaps call the local fish and game office and speak to a c.o. they are ussually helpfull even if you (or themselfs) don't really agree on the reason. might be something we haven't thought of.

[coors04]

I belive it's because of the weather. During the hard water season we get way more really cold days then warm and when someone catches a lage rainbow from one of these lakes they get all excited take it out side there shack call there buddy over drop it in the snow 3-4 times filling its gills with snow get 5 minuts of pictures with it and drop it back down the hole hoping for the best if it had anything to do with poaching they would have clued into whats happening on gull and sylvan and pine lake also in nice -20 weather it takes a trout opening it's gills once or twice to have them freeze up and it will die a day or so later

[stinkynuts]

I think it has to do with the fact the lake is arretted and if you punch a bunch of hole in the winter it is hard to saturate the water with air also it might cuase a sharp pressure drop and increase the constant pressure changes would be failry hard on the trout and on other species maybe they are not affected as much

Originally Posted by coors04

I belive it's because of the weather. During the hard water season we get way more really cold days then warm and when someone catches a lage rainbow from one of these lakes they get all excited take it out side there shack call there buddy over drop it in the snow 3-4 times filling its gills with snow get 5 minuts of pictures with it and drop it back down the hole hoping for the best if it had anything to do with poaching they would have clued into whats happening on gull and sylvan and pine lake also in nice -20 weather it takes a trout opening it's gills once or twice to have them freeze up and it will die a day or so later

Fish handling affects mortality. Aeration affects ice conditions. maybe they just want to give the fish a break. As for poaching. I believe it happens more on the ice and shore than from a boat. Jmo

[tight line]

Originally Posted by stinkynuts

I think it has to do with the fact the lake is arretted and if you punch a bunch of hole in the winter it is hard to saturate the water with air also it might cuase a sharp pressure drop and increase the constant pressure changes would be failry hard on the trout and on other species maybe they are not affected as much

Id say areration as well. With unpredictable ice, and fish crazy fisherman, bad combo... Lol

[EZM]

Originally Posted by stinkynuts

I think it has to do with the fact the lake is arretted and if you punch a bunch of hole in the winter it is hard to saturate the water with air also it might cuase a sharp pressure drop and increase the constant pressure changes would be failry hard on the trout and on other species maybe they are not affected as much

That's an interesting theory, I would have thought, if anything, the opposite is true. I'm not sure it's a big factor.

Considering an aerated lake has open water around the aerator heads, would a few hole be beneficial or detrimental to the oxygenated fluid dynamics of dispersing the oxygen rich water around the lake. That's fancy talk for ...... wouldn't the holes punched by ice fisherman allow further dispersion of the oxygen as there is a potential release of pressure in other nearby holes?

Kind of like watching you inject food coloring in through a small hole in a plastic pop bottle laying on it's side 95% full vs doing the same but punching holes along the top (air pocket) allows the colorant to disperse quickly.

We did this experiment to illustrate dispersal rates, patterns and characteristics in a fluid dynamics course. Today they probably use computer simulations for this ....lol

I'm not a biologist .... I don't know really.

I'm guessing the effect of drilling a few holes in even a small pothole lake would have very little impact either way.


You made me think and now I need a nap ......

[Fishabs]

My vote goes to aeration. Safety as well? Would our government try to save a few yahoos from drilling next to the aerator and fall through? Maybe.

[Wild&Free]

I would have to assume it's a safety issue as well. Same as entire river systems being closed until run off is almost finished.

[ericlin0122]

those two lakes got hit pretty hard throughout the season. give the fish a break.

[HunterDave]

The moral of the story........You can't have your lake and ice fish it too.

[Bigtoad]

Originally Posted by Fishabs

My vote goes to aeration. Safety as well? Would our government try to save a few yahoos from drilling next to the aerator and fall through? Maybe.

Can't be this either. I know several aerated, stocked lakes that allow ice fishing. Swan Lake by valleyview has the aerators right where most people enter the lake. You walk right past it. And lots of locals are fishing right up next to the opening. Thought about taking my flyrod and casting it in there

So no, I don't think it's because of aeration that they close some; or all aerated lakes would be closed.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Bigtoad

Can't be this either. I know several aerated, stocked lakes that allow ice fishing. Swan Lake by valleyview has the aerators right where most people enter the lake. You walk right past it. And lots of locals are fishing right up next to the opening. Thought about taking my flyrod and casting it in there

So no, I don't think it's because of aeration that they close some; or all aerated lakes would be closed.

Same with Moonshine Lake by Gordondale. It has open water all year due to the aerator. It could be that these lakes have natural currents/spring that in combination with an aerator system causes unsafe conditions. Maybe a comparision of stocking numbers to lakes in the region that do allow ice fishing and those that do not might shed some light on the subject.

It could also be that the biosphere of the lakes that do not allow for ice fishing have poor winter habitats and keeping the fishing pressure off allows for more fish survival and better growth.

[italk2u]

Someone needs to ask FESA why they close down Muir lake to ice fishing..
This is not a government thing, it's a decision made by the group that looks after the lake.

[Pikebreath]

I suspect closing the fishery for the winter months is an attempt to limit and delay overall mortality (whether legally / illegally harvested or C&R induced). Fingerling trout stocked in the spring become catchables by winter.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by pelada trochu

Fish handling affects mortality. Aeration affects ice conditions. maybe they just want to give the fish a break. As for poaching. I believe it happens more on the ice and shore than from a boat. Jmo

I disagree with your opinion

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by italk2u

Someone needs to ask FESA why they close down Muir lake to ice fishing..
This is not a government thing, it's a decision made by the group that looks after the lake.

Are you sure about that? Muir Lake is in the fishing regs and SRD stocks it.

[TROLLER]

Originally Posted by Bigtoad

I fly fish in the summer and ice fish in the winter. I'm all for catch and release fishing and anyone that has read my posts on quality lakes, etc. knows how passionately I believe in reduced harvest of stocked trout lakes that are aerated to grow bigger fish.

So I understand and appreciated why places like Beaver and Fiesta have limited harvest or C&R regs. However, what I don't understand/appreciate is why does SRD not allow ice fishing on these lakes?

These lakes don't allow bait of any kind so my first thought is that is why it isn't allowed. But ice fishermen can have great success for trout through the ice without using bait. If there is a no bait regulation, then don't use bait in the summer or winter. Seems simple enough.

In my mind, it would be similar to saying, "Spin cast fishermen often use bait, therefore, spin casting is not allowed." Well, what about all of the spin fishermen that follow the regs and don't use bait when it's not allowed?

Or is it that SRD thinks that ice fishermen are all poachers and people sitting in dark shacks can't be trusted? Is it just too tempting when you're sitting in the dark to slip on some bait or stash a few trout in your trousers while no one is looking? Seems a bit presumptuous, no? On the verge of discriminatory really...

I don't get it?

The ONLY reasonable argument that I can think of is that often ice fishermen will let the fish flop on the ice before releasing it, which can be harmful to the fish. But again, how many times have I seen spin casting and fly fishermen letting a trout thrash around on the rocks/grass/dirt on shore or bashing themselves unconscious on the bottom of their aluminum boat? But that is a fish-handling issue that runs across all types of fishing, not just in ice fishing. Education is needed here, not shutting down ice fishing altogether.

So again I ask, what's the deal here SRD? Why no ice fishing?

Cheers.

Some of the lakes ( Police Outpost) have been changed because of the heavy lobby from your fellow fly fisherman. Those who could not stand the thought of anyone keeping a fish. so it became a trophy lake with no fishing after Oct. 30

The other reason is a lot of the lakes which you like to fish as do I are really only good if you are in your belly boat as it is too weedy for shore fishing, thus the influx of ice fisherman. In particular those that feel they have to stay untill they have their limit and also fish almost every day. Lot of seniors fish every day. I am one but personally do not keeep fish.

So, there you have it. IMHO

[TROLLER]

Originally Posted by Bigtoad

I fly fish in the summer and ice fish in the winter. I'm all for catch and release fishing and anyone that has read my posts on quality lakes, etc. knows how passionately I believe in reduced harvest of stocked trout lakes that are aerated to grow bigger fish.

So I understand and appreciated why places like Beaver and Fiesta have limited harvest or C&R regs. However, what I don't understand/appreciate is why does SRD not allow ice fishing on these lakes?

These lakes don't allow bait of any kind so my first thought is that is why it isn't allowed. But ice fishermen can have great success for trout through the ice without using bait. If there is a no bait regulation, then don't use bait in the summer or winter. Seems simple enough.

In my mind, it would be similar to saying, "Spin cast fishermen often use bait, therefore, spin casting is not allowed." Well, what about all of the spin fishermen that follow the regs and don't use bait when it's not allowed?

Or is it that SRD thinks that ice fishermen are all poachers and people sitting in dark shacks can't be trusted? Is it just too tempting when you're sitting in the dark to slip on some bait or stash a few trout in your trousers while no one is looking? Seems a bit presumptuous, no? On the verge of discriminatory really...

I don't get it?

The ONLY reasonable argument that I can think of is that often ice fishermen will let the fish flop on the ice before releasing it, which can be harmful to the fish. But again, how many times have I seen spin casting and fly fishermen letting a trout thrash around on the rocks/grass/dirt on shore or bashing themselves unconscious on the bottom of their aluminum boat? But that is a fish-handling issue that runs across all types of fishing, not just in ice fishing. Education is needed here, not shutting down ice fishing altogether.

So again I ask, what's the deal here SRD? Why no ice fishing?

Cheers.

Some of the lakes ( Police Outpost) have been changed because of the heavy lobby from your fellow fly fisherman. Those who could not stand the thought of anyone keeping a fish. so it became a trophy lake with no fishing after Oct. 30

The other reason is a lot of the lakes which you like to fish as do I are really only good if you are in your belly boat as it is too weedy for shore fishing, thus the influx of ice fisherman. In particular those that feel they have to stay untill they have their limit and also fish almost every day. Lot of seniors fish every day. I am one but personally do not keeep fish.

So, there you have it. IMHO

[TROLLER]

Some of the lakes (Police) have had ice fishing closed because of the lobby from some of your fly fishing buds. So now it is only a tropy lake open till Oct 30.

Some lakes as you know are really only fishable with a belly boat or pontoon because of the weedy shoreline and they too are unfishable except through the ice.

The last one is some fisherman believe they have to stay at it till they limit and some fish (seniors) every day.

But all in all the fish are put there for people to catch as well as eat. So that is the system and so far it seems to be working fine. IMHO

Releasing fish on the ice I think has no impact on mortality.

[TJG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelada trochu
Fish handling affects mortality. Aeration affects ice conditions. maybe they just want to give the fish a break. As for poaching. I believe it happens more on the ice and shore than from a boat. Jmo

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

I disagree with your opinion

And your reason being?

[Fishabs]

Originally Posted by Bigtoad

Can't be this either. I know several aerated, stocked lakes that allow ice fishing. Swan Lake by valleyview has the aerators right where most people enter the lake. You walk right past it. And lots of locals are fishing right up next to the opening. Thought about taking my flyrod and casting it in there

So no, I don't think it's because of aeration that they close some; or all aerated lakes would be closed.

Based on what that; I would have to agree with you. Since i don't think it has anything to do with poaching, I think it's just a decision made to please a specific group (e.g fly-fisherman seeking high quality lakes).

[Shaner]

I think I agree, in that, if there is no bait allowed in the summer, why not maintain the same rules for the winter. There are still a number of goo synthetic baits available, I understand that nothing is as good as the real thing, but if it allows fish populations to prosper and makes fishing more enjoyable for the mny years to come, why not?
Just a thought..

-Shaner

[Don Andersen]

Of the <> 400 trout stocked lakes in Alberta there are 5 that have limits on ice fishing. Of the 5, one of them is
open to both early and late season ice fishing.

Don

[Cal]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

I disagree with your opinion

And I with yours, at least in my neck of the woods good launches are pretty limited and F&W can easily police them. Shore fishing not so much and from my own observations theres quite a bit of poaching that go's on allong the banks of the LSR. Ice fishing... well, when fishing around the shanty towns one smells fish cooking quite often. Maby they arent taking another one and maby they are, hard to police.