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  #121  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:42 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
So there are no city taxes, everyone of those examples but boating on the river are city facilities paid for by taxes that you pay. Without that payment there would be no access because the facilities would not exist.
Yes I pay city taxes,provincial taxes, and federal taxes, but I receive direct benefits in return. I don't pay a fee just to enter our city, our province, or our country, and I don't pay a fee to enter public land to hunt or fish. I buy the appropriate licences, but those are required to hunt and fish regardless of where I hunt or fish, be it public or private.

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Wow can you imagine the whining, moaning and dripping if landownerswhere to form a coalition of a township of land and charge $100 a day per head. Maybe we could afford to buy our own grader to keep the roads in good shape. That would be something wouldn't it.
I guess that it would be just as fair to charge every rural resident a fee of $100 per head every time they entered our cities, to help pay for our roads and facilities?

I grew up in a rural area, and the family still owns land, we just don't whine about wanting to charge someone to hunt on it.
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Last edited by elkhunter11; 03-28-2014 at 08:48 AM.
  #122  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:46 AM
JRsMav JRsMav is offline
 
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
Far from it, I have 13 quarters of prime hunting land that I run a cattle and grain operation on. I hunt and I allow access to 99% of those who ask. I have a herd of Elk on my land that destroy hay bales in the winter. I could easily eliminate this herd if I didn't have gov't standing in my way. The gov't is trying to build and sustain the herd to allow more opportunities for hunters by only allowing a very small harvest.

So I am the only one who pays while every body else benefits.
That's the cost of doing business bug guy. If you are going to whine and complain about it I would suggest selling your 13 quarters.
  #123  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Isn't the fence saving you money? You have to amortize the payback is all. High fencing the hay storage won't be too painful and will have the most obvious benefit. High fencing the whole operation would have less benefit, but then one doesn't have to deal with those pesky hunters!

The suggestion of allowing landowners to shoot & sell the wildlife would have significant fallout, and at what point would they be inclined to lure and corral more animals if there was economic benefit in it?
I can't high fence a quarter of hay land. When I bale all day and the Elk destroy the bales in the field at night.

The Elk are costing me money, the fence costs me money, replacing the hay costs me money.

I am not anti hunter, but it seem like a lot of hunters here are anti landowner.

I wonder how many of the guys here tell the landowner he is nothing but a rich, whiny, gov't subsidised, money grubbing clown when they are getting permission or do they save that for the these forums.
  #124  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:51 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Yes I pay city taxes,provincial taxes, and federal taxes, but I receive direct benefits in return. I don't pay a fee just to enter our city, our province, or our country, and I don't pay a fee to enter public land to hunt or fish. I buy the appropriate licences, but those are required to hunt and fish regardless of where I hunt or fish, be it public or private.



I guess that it would be just as fair to charge every rural resident a fee of $100 per head every time they entered our cities, to help pay for our roads and facilities?
Last I checked the roads were public that I pay taxes to maintain. I just think that a well maintained road would make hunting that much easier. Plow out all the field approaches for easy access. Lots of perks you could benefit from.
  #125  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:51 AM
Sledhead71 Sledhead71 is offline
 
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Unfortunately I have been very aggressive on my stand regarding the fiasco of the CFB elk...

Here we have opened the door for PAID hunting as it is obvious our system is broken and the sustained proposed population was to be CONTROLLED.

It wasn't, isn't and the effects of this WILL bring our province the ultimate demise of our passion, pay to play.

If people could only see the damage a herd of THOUSANDS of elk can do here, you may have put opportunity aside and looked forward to where we are currently at.. This year, we can expect near 8 - 10,000 head, this is insane and I whole heartedly feel for any and all landowners surrounding this area.

I don't blame any land owner here for asking for control measures and compensation for the damages, period. If our powers to be would have kept their promises, well this would not be discussed.

Enjoy the future, and remember these elk are in the heart of where we slaughtered our Mule deer population and the first moose to have tested positive for CWD.

I'm baffled and personally feel there is more to this fiasco than anyone cares to admit.
  #126  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
I can't high fence a quarter of hay land. When I bale all day and the Elk destroy the bales in the field at night.

The Elk are costing me money, the fence costs me money, replacing the hay costs me money.

I am not anti hunter, but it seem like a lot of hunters here are anti landowner.

I wonder how many of the guys here tell the landowner he is nothing but a rich, whiny, gov't subsidised, money grubbing clown when they are getting permission or do they save that for the these forums.
All costs of doing business. Buy a high fence or shut it down. Don't rely on others to cover your own operational costs.
  #127  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post

I would rather pay that fee to a land owner that provides me access and opportunity.
Would you really ? You have talked about hunters paying $50 per elk, seems reasonable, now fast forward a little. The neighbor wants his piece of the pie and so do all the other neighbors. Now we just eliminated some access from a few good responsible hunters that always hunted there, because they wont pay . The new guy might have deeper pockets but shallower ethics. The landowner with the most elk and best habitat bumps his price to $200, supply and demand Pretty soon its a grand per animal,does that still seem reasonable, Safeway seems like a more viable option at this point. Where does it all end. Imo with very few deep pocketed guys taking a few animals. Not even enough to to remotely affect the population, because the others have been priced out. Now you are back to the same old problems with the elk with no way to fix it. I guess you could just go back to allowing permission to responsible hunters for free If there was any left who would come.
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  #128  
Old 03-28-2014, 08:58 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
I can't high fence a quarter of hay land. When I bale all day and the Elk destroy the bales in the field at night.

The Elk are costing me money, the fence costs me money, replacing the hay costs me money.

I am not anti hunter, but it seem like a lot of hunters here are anti landowner.

I wonder how many of the guys here tell the landowner he is nothing but a rich, whiny, gov't subsidised, money grubbing clown when they are getting permission or do they save that for the these forums.
Come September you've got lots of friends but for the other 9 months they are scarce when you're up for 20 hrs calving, cleaning out graineries, combining ,seeding. I could go on and on. During these times the neighbor is there to help because he is in the same boat.
  #129  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:07 AM
Sledhead71 Sledhead71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by JRsMav View Post
All costs of doing business. Buy a high fence or shut it down. Don't rely on others to cover your own operational costs.
Have to disagree, when our governing bodies do not reasonably control and mitigate potential hazards associated with resources negatively affecting operational cost, there should be compensation...

No different than the millions spent on Rats in Alberta to mitigate potential future problems. But wait, there is NO value in the rat nor do the general public find them cute and enjoy viewing them
  #130  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Yes I pay city taxes,provincial taxes, and federal taxes, but I receive direct benefits in return. I don't pay a fee just to enter our city, our province, or our country, and I don't pay a fee to enter public land to hunt or fish. I buy the appropriate licences, but those are required to hunt and fish regardless of where I hunt or fish, be it public or private.



I guess that it would be just as fair to charge every rural resident a fee of $100 per head every time they entered our cities, to help pay for our roads and facilities?

I grew up in a rural area, and the family still owns land, we just don't whine about wanting to charge someone to hunt on it.
I will go for that deal, you charge me $100.00 every time I enter the city and I will charge you $100.00 every time you leave the city and enter an RM.

Your city taxes pay for roads in the city, my land taxes pay for roads in my RM.

I also pay municipal, provincial and federal taxes.

I also buy the appropriate licenses, you do realize that you pay to hunt public land through your taxes. I don't know about Alberta but here I pay for a Habitat Certificate on top of all other license fees. The funds from that Habitat Certificate go directly to land purchases by the gov't to provide hunting opportunities. I don't complain about that extra fee even though I have no need to hunt public land.
  #131  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JRsMav View Post
All costs of doing business. Buy a high fence or shut it down. Don't rely on others to cover your own operational costs.
x2
  #132  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:16 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
I will go for that deal, you charge me $100.00 every time I enter the city and I will charge you $100.00 every time you leave the city and enter an RM.

Your city taxes pay for roads in the city, my land taxes pay for roads in my RM.

I also pay municipal, provincial and federal taxes.

I also buy the appropriate licenses, you do realize that you pay to hunt public land through your taxes. I don't know about Alberta but here I pay for a Habitat Certificate on top of all other license fees. The funds from that Habitat Certificate go directly to land purchases by the gov't to provide hunting opportunities. I don't complain about that extra fee even though I have no need to hunt public land.
I like might keep the trespassing away
  #133  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JRsMav View Post
All costs of doing business. Buy a high fence or shut it down. Don't rely on others to cover your own operational costs.
Like has been said before, would you tell a truck driver the same thing when diesel price go up.
  #134  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:24 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Like has been said before, would you tell a truck driver the same thing when diesel price go up.
Good luck with that. You can tell a truck driver but you can't tell him much.
  #135  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:27 AM
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Last I checked the roads were public that I pay taxes to maintain. I just think that a well maintained road would make hunting that much easier. Plow out all the field approaches for easy access. Lots of perks you could benefit from.
Each RM has it's own equipment and employees that maintain the roads and clear snow. Paid for by land taxes on the land in that RM.
  #136  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:29 AM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
Like has been said before, would you tell a truck driver the same thing when diesel price go up.
Sorry but your arguement doesn't fly so much now that the Wheat Board monopoly is gone. You can sell for what the market will bear. The comodity price is just that. No more price fixing. Can market any way you want for your grains. Same with beef. The price is what the market will bear.

As to the situation at hand I see it from both sides. It is your land and I think it makes some sense that you should be able to charge people to use your land for what ever recreation. Problem being is that the public resource ie wildlife is not for sale (other than to outfitters but that is another thread)

I get the frustration but as a landowner you don't have to grant permission. There are programs in place for wildlife damage. There are programs in place to help with fencing bale yards. There is assistance when there are weather related occurances. Sorry if you don't think they compensate you enough. Those compensation programs are funded through the purchase of hunting licenses. So hunters are paying you for wildlife.
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Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
  #137  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:31 AM
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The ABP, formerly Alberta Cattle Commission, has been pushing for paid hunting for decades.

One thing about Wildrose that concerns me is there number of constituency executive who support that. That pressure flows uphill.
  #138  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by JRsMav View Post
That's the cost of doing business bug guy. If you are going to whine and complain about it I would suggest selling your 13 quarters.
I could sell my land to the local native band in a heartbeat, try getting access then.
  #139  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
Each RM has it's own equipment and employees that maintain the roads and clear snow. Paid for by land taxes on the land in that RM.
Unsure sure what RM is? Yes our county maintains the roads but a $100 per head for land access maybe my road would get graded 2 times a month instead of once every 2 months.
  #140  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey View Post
Sorry but your arguement doesn't fly so much now that the Wheat Board monopoly is gone. You can sell for what the market will bear. The comodity price is just that. No more price fixing. Can market any way you want for your grains. Same with beef. The price is what the market will bear.

As to the situation at hand I see it from both sides. It is your land and I think it makes some sense that you should be able to charge people to use your land for what ever recreation. Problem being is that the public resource ie wildlife is not for sale (other than to outfitters but that is another thread)

I get the frustration but as a landowner you don't have to grant permission. There are programs in place for wildlife damage. There are programs in place to help with fencing bale yards. There is assistance when there are weather related occurances. Sorry if you don't think they compensate you enough. Those compensation programs are funded through the purchase of hunting licenses. So hunters are paying you for wildlife.
The truck driver sets his own rates. I can't.

I would not be charging for wildlife, I would be charging for access to my land.

Like I said before, the elk destroy the bales and eat crops in the field. Crop insurance comes at a cost. I have to pay into crop insurance to be covered.
  #141  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by norwestalta View Post
Unsure sure what RM is? Yes our county maintains the roads but a $100 per head for land access maybe my road would get graded 2 times a month instead of once every 2 months.
RM= Rural Municipality. Same thing as a county. That is why I said I would make that deal, can you imagine the roads we would have if people had to pay to leave the city.
  #142  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JRsMav View Post
All costs of doing business. Buy a high fence or shut it down. Don't rely on others to cover your own operational costs.
Snap out of it, literally, we are forced to farm more and more acres just to survive, it's impossible to fence everything, in case you didn't know a lot of farm land is rented.
  #143  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
The truck driver sets his own rates. I can't.

I would not be charging for wildlife, I would be charging for access to my land.

Like I said before, the elk destroy the bales and eat crops in the field. Crop insurance comes at a cost. I have to pay into crop insurance to be covered.
If I am not mistaken you live in Saskatchewan so I assume that's where your land is? They already have paid hunting in your Province....

I can respect that farmers do lose $$ due to wildlife, I also respect that many farmer allow hunting....sometime the hunting season does not coincide with when the animals group up and eat crops....so paid access would do nothing in these cases (hunter success is low but farmer makes his access fees), an extended season would assist in lower problem wildlife.

I would propose that F&W issue "problem permits" only valid on named damaged property with mandatory call in next day noon registration....you have to next day noon register turkeys in some places....why not for deer or elk?

The permits could be issued one per hunter per season max and create a list if hunters the farmer follows to allow permission to hunt on 3 day permits.....NO FEE. If you miss your 3 day allotment it goes to the next guy in the list and so on. It is a tag valid only for the 3 days and only on NAMED lands.

That's my suggestion.

Also quite a few farmers do not allow hunting but do get compensated for crop loss due to wildlife...

Many factors here.

Lc
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Last edited by Lefty-Canuck; 03-28-2014 at 10:03 AM.
  #144  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by flyguyd View Post
Would you really ? You have talked about hunters paying $50 per elk, seems reasonable, now fast forward a little. The neighbor wants his piece of the pie and so do all the other neighbors. Now we just eliminated some access from a few good responsible hunters that always hunted there, because they wont pay . The new guy might have deeper pockets but shallower ethics. The landowner with the most elk and best habitat bumps his price to $200, supply and demand Pretty soon its a grand per animal,does that still seem reasonable, Safeway seems like a more viable option at this point. Where does it all end. Imo with very few deep pocketed guys taking a few animals. Not even enough to to remotely affect the population, because the others have been priced out. Now you are back to the same old problems with the elk with no way to fix it. I guess you could just go back to allowing permission to responsible hunters for free If there was any left who would come.
I think if the gov't would make it legal they could also put a cap on the fee.
  #145  
Old 03-28-2014, 09:58 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
RM= Rural Municipality. Same thing as a county. That is why I said I would make that deal, can you imagine the roads we would have if people had to pay to leave the city.
Do you have school aged children that attend school in a city town or village? That deal could get expensive at $100 per person per day.
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  #146  
Old 03-28-2014, 10:10 AM
norwestalta norwestalta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
If I am not mistaken you live in Saskatchewan so I assume that's where your land is? They already have paid hunting in your Province....

I can respect that farmers do lose $$ due to wildlife, I also respect that many farmer allow hunting....sometime the hunting season does not coincide with when the animals group up and eat crops....so paid access would do nothing in these cases (hunter success is low but farmer makes his access fees), an extended season would assist in lower problem wildlife.

I would propose that F&W issue "problem permits" only valid on named damaged property with mandatory call in next day noon registration....you have to next day noon register turkeys in some places....why not for deer or elk?

The permits could be issued one per hunter per season max and create a list if hunters the farmer follows to allow permission to hunt on 3 day permits.....NO FEE. If you miss your 3 day allotment it goes to the next guy in the list and so on. It is a tag valid only forces the 3 days and only on NAMED lands.

That's my suggestion.

Also quite a few farmers do not allow hunting but do get compensated for crop loss due to wildlife...

Many factors here.

Lc
Combine it with ranch11 idea and some fine tuning. Good idea
  #147  
Old 03-28-2014, 10:17 AM
expmler expmler is offline
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
If I am not mistaken you live in Saskatchewan so I assume that's where your land is? They already have paid hunting in your Province....

I can respect that farmers do lose $$ due to wildlife, I also respect that many farmer allow hunting....sometime the hunting season does not coincide with when the animals group up and eat crops....so paid access would do nothing in these cases (hunter success is low but farmer makes his access fees), an extended season would assist in lower problem wildlife.

I would propose that F&W issue "problem permits" only valid on named damaged property with mandatory call in next day noon registration....you have to next day noon register turkeys in some places....why not for deer or elk?

The permits could be issued one per hunter per season max and create a list if hunters the farmer follows to allow permission to hunt on 3 day permits.....NO FEE. If you miss your 3 day allotment it goes to the next guy in the list and so on. It is a tag valid only for the 3 days and only on NAMED lands.

That's my suggestion.

Also quite a few farmers do not allow hunting but do get compensated for crop loss due to wildlife...

Many factors here.

Lc
What is this paid hunting you speak of.

Hunting license fees do not guarantee success, but nobody complains about them.
  #148  
Old 03-28-2014, 10:19 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is online now
 
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If this does happen, I for one would find a different place to hunt. (Crown land)
Why would someone pay to hunt on someones land when they could go somewhere else and hunt for free? Sure there are some people who might pay to hunt, but what happens when those people have filled there tags and there is no one left who wants to pay to hunt? To me it is a lose to both groups.
  #149  
Old 03-28-2014, 10:23 AM
Sledhead71 Sledhead71 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post
If this does happen, I for one would find a different place to hunt. (Crown land)
Why would someone pay to hunt on someones land when they could go somewhere else and hunt for free? Sure there are some people who might pay to hunt, but what happens when those people have filled there tags and there is no one left who wants to pay to hunt? To me it is a lose to both groups.
Well them 400 plus bulls are plentiful around CFB, pretty sure them there would keep our group begging for access wallets wide open.

  #150  
Old 03-28-2014, 10:23 AM
Donkey Oatey Donkey Oatey is offline
 
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Originally Posted by expmler View Post
The truck driver sets his own rates. I can't.

I would not be charging for wildlife, I would be charging for access to my land.

Like I said before, the elk destroy the bales and eat crops in the field. Crop insurance comes at a cost. I have to pay into crop insurance to be covered.
Again I call BS on that. You can set any price you want, you might not be able to sell it but you can set any price you want. Long gone is the wheat board and price fixing. You can market you wares at any price the market will pay. The government doesn't set the price, market sets the price and you can market any way you want.

Elk damage your bales in Alberta (This is the ALBERTA Outdoorsman forum ) you can apply for compensation through ACA for wildlife bale damage. Again hunters paying for damage. Everyone has insurance, that is the cost of doing business.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Attention Anti Hunters
Sit back
Pour yourself a tea

Watch us "sportsmen" attack each other and destroy ourselves from within.

From road hunters vs "real hunters" to bowhunters vs rifle hunters, long bows and recurves vs compound user to bow vs crossbow to white hunters vs Native hunters etc etc etc
.....

Enjoy the easy ride, anti hunters. Strange to me why we seem to be doing your job for you.

Excuse me while I go puke.
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