Sooty once fired reloads

[Jerry D]

I've been working up a few loads for an older (1941) Husquvarna M38.

My load is a 140 grain bullet, winchester brass, fed 210 primer, and re 22.

I've loaded and fired 5 shots each of 42.0/42.5/ and 43.0 grains.

Thee cartridges are ejecting with a light layer of soot which is most noticeable around the base of the cartridge and rim.

My question is then that perhaps the powder charge is not enough to seal up the chamber? I would think it should be but could be wrong. I don't know why else they would come out dirty like that. I've never seen it happen with any other minimum loads.

I'm going out today again, leaving in a couple minutes to try 43.5 and 44.0 grains and I'll post if it makes a difference.

FYI the 42-43.0 grain loads were giving all about 2450 fps (140gr bullet) with no noticeable difference between any of them. A 42.0 charged load actually gave the fastest shot according to my chrono at just over 2500 fps.

[catnthehat]

Sounds like you are not getting enough pressure in the case .
What powder are you using ?
I like 4831 for the 140's, but some guys use 4350 , and I have some loaded with IMR4350 right now for my O/U express gun- 42.5 grains.
I much prefer H4831 however.
How is your neck tension on your cases , BTW?
Cat

[tchardy1972]

You don't mention what caliber you are shooting. It sounds like 270 win is this right?

[honda450]

Originally Posted by tchardy1972

You don't mention what caliber you are shooting. It sounds like 270 win is this right?

Think he's probably shootin a 6.5 x 55. Cat the local Swede is a expert on that cartridge. hehe

[Jerry D]

I'm shooting a 6.5x55 with reloader 22.

I've just gone and shot another 15. 5 at 43.5 44.0 and 44.5 The problem still exists. The published starting load in two of my manuals is 42.2 and 42.5 grains with the max being 47. 44.5 should give plenty of pressure I would think to seal the chamber with the expanded brass.

Is it possible that these are fire forming to my chamber and therefore some gas is leaking?

I'm unsure of how to "test" neck tension but the force required feels similar to that required to seat bullets in my .25-06 and .30-06. At the same time though, I have not been impressed with my batch of 6.5x55 winchester brass. Seating the primers took almost NO effort at all.



The two pieces of brass on the left with sorta burn marks on the shoulder. These marks are only one 1 side of the case and only appeared in the batch of 43.5 grain charges.



The 5 pieces of brass above came from my loading of 44.5 grains which is a middle load. You can see the soot in the base of the rim.

[6.5 shooter]

Hi , Have you had the head space checked on this rifle?

I agree with Cat, and for my money I would lose the RE-22, and go with IMR-4831.
My Husky in a 96 does very well, with this powder here are a few examples.

IMR 4831 48grs. 120gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip, 2985fps. CCI 200 Norma brass
IMR 4831 48grs. 120gr. Nosler Solid Base, 2995fps. CCI 200 Norma brass.(This bullet is no longer made )
IMR 4831 45grs 139gr. Norma Protected pt., 2851fps. CCI 200 Norma brass.
IMR 4831 43grs. 139grs Norma Dual Core, 2400fps.(approx.) CCI 200 Norma brass.

In a German 98 Mauser
IMR 4831 47grs. 140gr. Hornady Interlock WLR Norma Brass

I do have 2 loads with re-22.

Re-22, 43.5grs. 140gr. Nosler Partition, WLR, Norma brass.

Re-22, 39.5grs 160gr.Hornady RN Interlock, CCI 200, Norma Brass ( Had a couple of Hang fires on lower charges ).

These loads were safe IN MY rifles, IF you choose to use them you do so at your own risk.

6.5 Shooter

[sdeviation]

i started using light charges(starting loads in the books) in my 270win with slow burning powders,,,i was having same results as shown in the pixs... they grouped well (1iinch@100) ..
i just wanted this rifle for off hand plinking set up.... i ended up using a crimper to crimp the bullet and the group shrunk to a 1/2 inch and no more sooty cases.
i guess the bullet is held longer in the cartridge case and gives time for pressure to rise so the brass can seal itself against the chamber..

starting loads of us869 in my 7stw actually produced collasped shoulders,
new brass ,slow powder, lop sided necks,lite neck tension, i think all contributed in doing this

[220swifty]

I am wondering if there is any sort of lubricant stuck to the walls of yor chamber that would cause it. The rifle probably spent some time packed in cosmoline, and may have some residue in the chamber that is causing higher pressures and allowing some gas leakage. (not unlike thanksgiving)

[foothillsman]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

Sounds like you are not getting enough pressure in the case .
What powder are you using ?
I like 4831 for the 140's, but some guys use 4350 , and I have some loaded with IMR4350 right now for my O/U express gun- 42.5 grains.
I much prefer H4831 however.
How is your neck tension on your cases , BTW?
Cat

X2

I agree with Cat. RL22 is on the slow side. If your bent on using RL22, mag primers may help. A smarter choice would be to follow Cat recommendation. What do your primers look like? Got close-up pics of them?That should tell you right off the bat. If you have a loose chamber as well, that may increase your likelyhood of having that problem.

[duceman]

starting loads of us869 in my 7stw actually produced collasped shoulders,
new brass ,slow powder, lop sided necks,lite neck tension, i think all contributed in doing this


thats a first, almost hard to believe, lee.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Jerry D

I'm shooting a 6.5x55 with reloader 22.

I've just gone and shot another 15. 5 at 43.5 44.0 and 44.5 The problem still exists. The published starting load in two of my manuals is 42.2 and 42.5 grains with the max being 47. 44.5 should give plenty of pressure I would think to seal the chamber with the expanded brass.

Is it possible that these are fire forming to my chamber and therefore some gas is leaking?

I'm unsure of how to "test" neck tension but the force required feels similar to that required to seat bullets in my .25-06 and .30-06. At the same time though, I have not been impressed with my batch of 6.5x55 winchester brass. Seating the primers took almost NO effort at all.



The two pieces of brass on the left with sorta burn marks on the shoulder. These marks are only one 1 side of the case and only appeared in the batch of 43.5 grain charges.



The 5 pieces of brass above came from my loading of 44.5 grains which is a middle load. You can see the soot in the base of the rim.

How clean is your chamber?
And like foothillsman said, check your primers, are they backing out?
this sure does look like a low pressure issue, but I have seen it before with a dirty chamber.
it sounds like you have enough neck tension - you should have to use pliers to take the buller out of the case, to check.
Yours however, do in fact look "sooty"
If your primers look okay, take that RL22 up a notch, but it may be easier to go to IMR4350 .
Cat

[Jerry D]

I've got lots of IMR 4350. I'll give it a whirl. I will also check out the chamber to see how clean it is. I will update tonight or tomorrow with the new results.

[Deer Hunter]

RL-22 is a flithy powder imo. What does your barrel look like when you run a patch down it?