black powder loads

fish_e_o · #1 10-05-2010, 03:27 PM

my muzzleloader was used and didn't come with a book saying the optimum load weight.

is there another resource i can use to find this stuff out and what my max loads are

#2 10-05-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

my muzzleloader was used and didn't come with a book saying the optimum load weight.

is there another resource i can use to find this stuff out and what my max loads are

Manufacturer's website would be my first stop.

fish_e_o · #3 10-05-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Manufacturer's website would be my first stop.

well it's made in 1980 so i'm not sure if current manuals will work for this one... but i do have a current manual

maybe i'll just try working it up slowly to the current specs and if i find a good group i'll stop

Huntsman · #4 10-05-2010, 10:01 PM

Inline or Sidelock?
Either way there's no need to go heavier than 100grs (volume).

fish_e_o · #5 10-06-2010, 08:53 AM

it's a side hammer style with percussion caps

#6 10-06-2010, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

it's a side hammer style with percussion caps

Then you are likely limited to 100 grain loads.

fish_e_o · #7 10-06-2010, 03:38 PM

no one in town has a volumetric measure for black powder.

the guy at wholesale thinks i can weigh it like i would smokeless. and the guy at p&d told me to NOT do that. who do i believe i'm leaning towards p&d but i really want to start shooting it...

#8 10-06-2010, 03:40 PM

DO NOT USE A WEIGHED LOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BP is measured by volume only. 100 grains by weight is far more than 100 grains by volume. Enough to be VERY dangerous.

fish_e_o · #9 10-06-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

DO NOT USE A WEIGHED LOAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BP is measured by volume only. 100 grains by weight is far more than 100 grains by volume. Enough to be VERY dangerous.

ok wow...

this is one time i'm glad wholesale didn't have stock because i totally would have done it unless i talked to the guy at p&d

fish_e_o · #10 10-06-2010, 03:48 PM

i guess i should add i'm using tripple 7 powder

#11 10-06-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i guess i should add i'm using tripple 7 powder

Still by volume only.

benamen · #12 10-06-2010, 09:51 PM

When you reload modern cartridges using a powder throw, one normally expects the amounts thrown to be of a consistent weight. So there is a correlation between volume and weight.
I shoot a Triumph and use Blackhorn 209. That being said, I hardly ever measure my charges, I prefer to weigh them instead.
Toby Bridges has gone through the trouble of creating a bunch of tables to convert volume charges to weight. As mentioned earlier, 100 volumetric grains is not equal to 100 grains in weight as his tables show.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics4.html

ishootbambi · #13 10-06-2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

no one in town has a volumetric measure for black powder.

the guy at wholesale thinks i can weigh it like i would smokeless. and the guy at p&d told me to NOT do that. who do i believe i'm leaning towards p&d but i really want to start shooting it...

i had a guy at an outdoors shop tell me that too, but i already knew better. its sad to think that the guy looking for some help knows more than the guy whose job it is to sell it and provide the help!

fish_e_o · #14 10-07-2010, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benamen

When you reload modern cartridges using a powder throw, one normally expects the amounts thrown to be of a consistent weight. So there is a correlation between volume and weight.
I shoot a Triumph and use Blackhorn 209. That being said, I hardly ever measure my charges, I prefer to weigh them instead.
Toby Bridges has gone through the trouble of creating a bunch of tables to convert volume charges to weight. As mentioned earlier, 100 volumetric grains is not equal to 100 grains in weight as his tables show.

http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/LoadsBallistics4.html

Triple Se7en FFg
Volume Measured Charge Weighed Charge

10 Grains............................................ .....7.6 Grains
20 Grains............................................ ....15.2 Grains
30 Grains............................................ ....22.8 Grains
40 Grains............................................ ....30.4 Grains
50 Grains............................................ ....38.0 Grains
60 Grains............................................ ....45.6 Grains
70 Grains............................................ ....53.2 Grains
80 Grains............................................ ....60.8 Grains
90 Grains............................................ ....68.4 Grains
100 Grains............................................ ..76.0 Grains
110 Grains............................................ ..83.6 Grains
120 Grains............................................ ..91.2 Grains

the current manual says to use a max of 80 grains (vol) for my bullets 80 grains (weight) would have put me at about 105 grains (vol)

anyway...

i tried it last night and although still cool and easy to clean i'm going to have to switch powders. i wanted a big cloud of smoke that i couldn't see through and i wanted the smell. it's too much like a normal gun right now and i have lots of those already...

does anyone have any suggestions for what powder to use?

#15 10-07-2010, 10:08 AM

Good old Pyrodex RS will give you all the smoke and stink that you want....lol

benamen · #16 10-07-2010, 10:33 AM

[QUOTE=fish_e_o;701041]Triple Se7en FFg
Volume Measured Charge Weighed Charge

10 Grains............................................ .....7.6 Grains
20 Grains............................................ ....15.2 Grains
30 Grains............................................ ....22.8 Grains
40 Grains............................................ ....30.4 Grains
50 Grains............................................ ....38.0 Grains
60 Grains............................................ ....45.6 Grains
70 Grains............................................ ....53.2 Grains
80 Grains............................................ ....60.8 Grains
90 Grains............................................ ....68.4 Grains
100 Grains............................................ ..76.0 Grains
110 Grains............................................ ..83.6 Grains
120 Grains............................................ ..91.2 Grains

(the current manual says to use a max of 80 grains (vol) for my bullets 80 grains (weight) would have put me at about 105 grains (vol) )

Volume is on the left, weight on the right so 80 grains of volume is equal to 60.8 grains of weight.

catnthehat · #17 10-07-2010, 05:10 PM

[QUOTE=benamen;701119]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

Triple Se7en FFg
Volume Measured Charge Weighed Charge

10 Grains............................................ .....7.6 Grains
20 Grains............................................ ....15.2 Grains
30 Grains............................................ ....22.8 Grains
40 Grains............................................ ....30.4 Grains
50 Grains............................................ ....38.0 Grains
60 Grains............................................ ....45.6 Grains
70 Grains............................................ ....53.2 Grains
80 Grains............................................ ....60.8 Grains
90 Grains............................................ ....68.4 Grains
100 Grains............................................ ..76.0 Grains
110 Grains............................................ ..83.6 Grains
120 Grains............................................ ..91.2 Grains

(the current manual says to use a max of 80 grains (vol) for my bullets 80 grains (weight) would have put me at about 105 grains (vol) )

Volume is on the left, weight on the right so 80 grains of volume is equal to 60.8 grains of weight.

Weighing your charge until you get an accurate load then using the measure to throw that charge is very common.
many BPCR shooters also weigh their black powder charges for shooting more accurately in their cartridge guns.

I do not use Pyrodex as a rule any more, but when I did I did not weigh it but used my BP measured charge that I had worked up in my muzzle loaders.
The key , of course, is to try to get the most accurate load with the least amount of fouling, or unburnt powder.

Cat

MountainTi · #18 10-07-2010, 05:17 PM

When I bought my first black powder gun twenty some years ago (it was a hawken .50 by the way) I asked the guy at the gunshow where I got it how much powder to use. He told me to start at about 80 grains and slowly work up till it recocks itself, then back it off a couple grains. Wasn't quite brave enough to try that and stuck to a max load of around 100 grains. Actually found it was more accurate with a lighter load.

catnthehat · #19 10-07-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainTi

When I bought my first black powder gun twenty some years ago (it was a hawken .50 by the way) I asked the guy at the gunshow where I got it how much powder to use. He told me to start at about 80 grains and slowly work up till it recocks itself, then back it off a couple grains. Wasn't quite brave enough to try that and stuck to a max load of around 100 grains. Actually found it was more accurate with a lighter load.

Many of the coiled spring locks will re-cock, but a Siler or an LR side lock with a good spring will go way over a max charge without re-cocking.

My first Italian replica .50 shot well with 120 grains , but shot better with 90 and still whalloped moose when shot placement was the lungs .

I shoot 130 grains of FFG with a .280 weight ball in my 58, it groups well and kills very well.
My son's .54 shoots a .230 weight ball and 100 grains of FFG extremely well .
Cat

TrollGRG · #20 10-08-2010, 10:05 AM

Your best bet would be to pick up a copy of Lyman's "Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual". It is written by Sam Fadala who some people consider an expert on the subject.

If you don't have a book or gun store near you, you can always order it online.

Keep your powder dry

fish_e_o · #21 10-08-2010, 01:58 PM

new problem...

it's misfiring... which scares the crap out of me.

the precussin caps are the right ones and there are not blockages (the primer blast will move blades of grass) but it wont ignite the powder... i don't know why...

benamen · #22 10-08-2010, 03:56 PM

You should state what model of rifle you have, which powder you are using now (last time you posted you indicated that you were changing powders) and state the brand of percussion caps you are using. This will go a long way in obtaining help with your problem.

fish_e_o · #23 10-08-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benamen

You should state what model of rifle you have, which powder you are using now (last time you posted you indicated that you were changing powders) and state the brand of percussion caps you are using. This will go a long way in obtaining help with your problem.

safari arms made by investarms of italy
ffg triple seven
cci # 11 percussion caps

Huntsman · #24 10-11-2010, 09:33 AM

T7 was designed for inline muzzleloaders with 209 shotgun primer ignition. These primers are WAY hotter than a #11. You can try switching to a musket cap nipple or change to "real" blackpowder or Pyrodex RS.
I shoot Goex FFG in my sidelocks (TC Hawken, Lyman GPR) and T7 or Pyrodex Select FFG in my TC Endevour.
My suggestion is if you can get it use the real stuff...its funner that way

#25 10-11-2010, 10:37 AM

Ya, many of the substitutes are harder to ignite than BP and were really never designed for caplock guns. I'd give Pyrodex RS a try.

catnthehat · #26 10-11-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

i guess i should add i'm using tripple 7 powder

Oh- DANG!!
Didn't realize you were using that stuff .

Stick to real black powder, even Pyro can be tough to ignite with a Hot shot nipple.
Cat