Jumping the shark

[OL_JR]

So earlier this year I was listening to a hunting/fishing podcast and the topic of tech in the outdoors came up. Specifically the use of cellular trail cameras. It's been a topic that has been touched upon a few times in the hunting forum. Some are for them, some against. Boone and Crockett has recently deemed them not fair chase...

A good point that was brought up in the conversation was how Fishing seems to be immune to that type of argument. New tech comes out and we jump all over it.

Never really gave it much thought myself but with the live imaging technology coming out and improving I guess the question I ask is when have we taken it to far as fisherman?

[ssyd]

How much good would it be knowing when a fish swam by your camera when you're not around?

Technically live imaging is nothing more than sticking your head underwater and having a peek, we're just too proud to do it in our sloughs...

Unless the cellular tip-up reels and cleans the thing for you...

[Dewey Cox]

It would be handy if your jawjacker sent you a text whenever it traps a fish.

[Smoky buck]

Fishermen don’t care about fair chase and most are looking for any advantages possible

The wars with fishing are fish handling and C&R vs C&K

[AlbertanGP]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

It would be handy if your jawjacker sent you a text whenever it traps a fish.

Mine do. I get a text and a ringtone goes off that says "Dude, you got a fish!"

[58thecat]

you can image this, image that blah blah blah but you cant predict the bite...my take anyways

ohh and the camera, fish liar grabs your attention too just like checking game cams but at the end of the day no guarantees but sure is fun and the manufacturers luv it as do the pro's and their sponsorships...no harm done!

[OL_JR]

I guess what has me curious is how good will the sonar technology get down the road. I think some of the newer stuff coming out is pretty neat but not an unfair advantage.

I do think though as all manner of imaging/scanning improves there will come a point where the fish just have no where to hide and it's to easy to find them.

[SamSteele]

I've been thinking about this from a different angle. As technology improves, presumably fishermen will be able to find fish easier and catch the aggressive fish easier. My thinking is that continually catching and possibly removing the most aggressive fish from the gene pool has the potential to change the genetic predisposition that drives fish behavior. Over time this could result in a fish population that has less aggressive behavior, making them harder to catch.

SS

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by SamSteele

I've been thinking about this from a different angle. As technology improves, presumably fishermen will be able to find fish easier and catch the aggressive fish easier. My thinking is that continually catching and possibly removing the most aggressive fish from the gene pool has the potential to change the genetic predisposition that drives fish behavior. Over time this could result in a fish population that has less aggressive behavior, making them harder to catch.

SS

Genetically coded over millions of years, can't change that, aggressive is an indication of possibly a feeding frenzy coming on or just an instinctive chase/bite more than likely changes hourly from fish to fish in a school.
But I do see your point too, over another ten thousand years they may evolve to the point as you explained but I think we are safe now playing with our gadgets on the ice/water.

[Dewey Cox]

As fishing in Alberta becomes mostly catch and release, I wonder if the regs will evolve to make things more "fair chase"?
If there is zero retention in a lake, we probably aren't doing the fish any favors by having 2 tipups for the fish to deep swallow hooks on.

[CardiacCowboy]

Originally Posted by SamSteele

I've been thinking about this from a different angle. As technology improves, presumably fishermen will be able to find fish easier and catch the aggressive fish easier. My thinking is that continually catching and possibly removing the most aggressive fish from the gene pool has the potential to change the genetic predisposition that drives fish behavior. Over time this could result in a fish population that has less aggressive behavior, making them harder to catch.

SS

I have read this has happened in some cuttroat trout locations. Places where numbers have not declined but become much harder to catch.

[CardiacCowboy]

Some thing that might be too far away and I would draw the line at would be a combo drone (aerial or subsurface) fishfinder.

[mapleleafman3]

Originally Posted by AlbertanGP

Mine do. I get a text and a ringtone goes off that says "Dude, you got a fish!"

BlueTipz does it. Got them on my tipups so I don't have to keep a close eye on them. Flag goes up, phone says "Flag up". It uses Bluetooth though.

[AlbertanGP]

Originally Posted by mapleleafman3

BlueTipz does it. Got them on my tipups so I don't have to keep a close eye on them. Flag goes up, phone says "Flag up". It uses Bluetooth though.

That's the ones. I personally like the cowboy voice that yells "Ti-puuuuuuuuup", but for some reason I've stuck with the "Dude" message.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by SamSteele

I've been thinking about this from a different angle. As technology improves, presumably fishermen will be able to find fish easier and catch the aggressive fish easier. My thinking is that continually catching and possibly removing the most aggressive fish from the gene pool has the potential to change the genetic predisposition that drives fish behavior. Over time this could result in a fish population that has less aggressive behavior, making them harder to catch.

SS

Interesting line of thought, the real question is ..... does a fish possess enough intelligence (and the ability to employ deductive reasoning) to learn things, change (or curb) instinctual behavior, and adapt to changing it's behavior.

Is aggression a behavior or is it a instinct for survival? Can it be both (in fish)?

We know some animals like crows, canines, primates clearly can do this. (Adapt behaviors and curb instincts based on learned/observed outcomes). Other animals more or less so. Where does a fish fall into this?

Ever since I was a kid and I hear someone say "the fish are getting smarter" I always wondered if that was possible, or perhaps the once "this lure used to catch hundreds of fish a day" that turned into this lure catches a few fish a day could be due to the population of those fish in that spot over time????

Would be interesting to see/measure/study this.

[SamSteele]

Originally Posted by EZM

Interesting line of thought, the real question is ..... does a fish possess enough intelligence (and the ability to employ deductive reasoning) to learn things, change (or curb) instinctual behavior, and adapt to changing it's behavior.

Is aggression a behavior or is it a instinct for survival? Can it be both (in fish)?

We know some animals like crows, canines, primates clearly can do this. (Adapt behaviors and curb instincts based on learned/observed outcomes). Other animals more or less so. Where does a fish fall into this?

Ever since I was a kid and I hear someone say "the fish are getting smarter" I always wondered if that was possible, or perhaps the once "this lure used to catch hundreds of fish a day" that turned into this lure catches a few fish a day could be due to the population of those fish in that spot over time????

Would be interesting to see/measure/study this.

I've actually discussed this idea with Gord Pyzer and he seemed to think that it warranted some study as a thesis for an up and coming fisheries biologist. I believe a lot of how fish behave is instinctual, but having humans selectively remove the most aggressive fish from the population through fishing has to have an impact on the genetic traits that carry on. It's a simple matter of "survival of the fittest". The fittest may no longer be the most aggressive. I'm not saying that this change will happen rapidly, but it could certainly happen faster than if there was no fishing pressure period.

SS

[Gbuss]

Originally Posted by SamSteele

I've actually discussed this idea with Gord Pyzer and he seemed to think that it warranted some study as a thesis for an up and coming fisheries biologist. I believe a lot of how fish behave is instinctual, but having humans selectively remove the most aggressive fish from the population through fishing has to have an impact on the genetic traits that carry on. It's a simple matter of "survival of the fittest". The fittest may no longer be the most aggressive. I'm not saying that this change will happen rapidly, but it could certainly happen faster than if there was no fishing pressure period.

SS

The same could be said that the more aggressive fish that you caught was the one that hasn't eaten yet and it was more determined to get that meal. That being said it is tuff to know. Fish school up in year classes so one day you may be on a spot and catch 20" fish all day go back the next and they are 16" fish. Also the mood of the fish is it a high pressure day a low pressure day. have the fish been eating good because of larger amounts of bait fish as well.

As for live imaging I think you may be able to see them but until you can catch a fish off that school you may throw your whole tackle box at them first. So I think that fish are designed to eat when hungry and go nuts when their is a lot of bait. I seen this as a kid fishing the docks on the harbor front in Kenora Ontario one November evening. The walleye had pushed a school of shiners into a C shaped float plan dock. You could see the school of bait flash and ball away as the walleye were aggressively eating the bait. We would drop a jig and minnow down and bang fish on. It couldn't even hit the bottom. 4 of us fishing that day and we took home 24 walleye in 10 minutes of fishing as the limit was 6 per person. I think their is a lot a variables to consider.

Gbuss

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by EZM

Interesting line of thought, the real question is ..... does a fish possess enough intelligence (and the ability to employ deductive reasoning) to learn things, change (or curb) instinctual behavior, and adapt to changing it's behavior.

Is aggression a behavior or is it a instinct for survival? Can it be both (in fish)?

We know some animals like crows, canines, primates clearly can do this. (Adapt behaviors and curb instincts based on learned/observed outcomes). Other animals more or less so. Where does a fish fall into this?

Ever since I was a kid and I hear someone say "the fish are getting smarter" I always wondered if that was possible, or perhaps the once "this lure used to catch hundreds of fish a day" that turned into this lure catches a few fish a day could be due to the population of those fish in that spot over time????

Would be interesting to see/measure/study this.

IMO, this has already happened to moose. When I was a kid, stories about getting chased by moose were pretty common. I remember a neighbor of ours in Grande Cache made the mistake of honking his horn at one that was on the road and it proceded to total his car. My grandfather once spent several hours sitting up in a tree while an irate bull circled the bottom, and even pretended to leave and then took another swipe at him when he climbed down.

It was common enough that I remember Outdoor Canada running an article on how to interperate moose body language while photographing them, so you knew when it was time to run back to your vehicle before they tried to stomp someone.... Now try and remember the last time you heard about a moose running down a photographer or attacking a vehicle, it just doesnt happen that much anymore and I really think that the moose gene pool has had a bit of the aggression thinned out of it.

Anyhow, to the OP, I think you've jumped the shark when your passion for collecting neat toys gets anywhere near your enjoyment of actually actually fishing. I find it pretty fun to step back and simplify sometimes. I spent much of the past few seasons fishing from shore, even though I own a decent boat and a few smaller watercraft... had a blast every time and I've learned lots too. We even did a trip through BC last year where I didnt bother to bring even a canoe, just hoping that a few years of acquired knowlege would be transferable to different species and locations I wasnt familiar with... I didnt always slay em, but to the best of my recollection we fished around a dozen different body's of water and never did fail to connect.

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by SamSteele

I've been thinking about this from a different angle. As technology improves, presumably fishermen will be able to find fish easier and catch the aggressive fish easier. My thinking is that continually catching and possibly removing the most aggressive fish from the gene pool has the potential to change the genetic predisposition that drives fish behavior. Over time this could result in a fish population that has less aggressive behavior, making them harder to catch.

SS

Interesting take but not sure I see it. I think with so many different approaches to angling from those that don't bother with fish finders to the ultra tech savvy there will always be those that naturally target the most aggressive fish without even knowing it. The hardcore are just going to get better at finding the tough fish.

Originally Posted by Bushleague

IMO, this has already happened to moose. When I was a kid, stories about getting chased by moose were pretty common. I remember a neighbor of ours in Grande Cache made the mistake of honking his horn at one that was on the road and it proceded to total his car. My grandfather once spent several hours sitting up in a tree while an irate bull circled the bottom, and even pretended to leave and then took another swipe at him when he climbed down.

It was common enough that I remember Outdoor Canada running an article on how to interperate moose body language while photographing them, so you knew when it was time to run back to your vehicle before they tried to stomp someone.... Now try and remember the last time you heard about a moose running down a photographer or attacking a vehicle, it just doesnt happen that much anymore and I really think that the moose gene pool has had a bit of the aggression thinned out of it.

Anyhow, to the OP, I think you've jumped the shark when your passion for collecting neat toys gets anywhere near your enjoyment of actually actually fishing. I find it pretty fun to step back and simplify sometimes. I spent much of the past few seasons fishing from shore, even though I own a decent boat and a few smaller watercraft... had a blast every time and I've learned lots too. We even did a trip through BC last year where I didnt bother to bring even a canoe, just hoping that a few years of acquired knowlege would be transferable to different species and locations I wasnt familiar with... I didnt always slay em, but to the best of my recollection we fished around a dozen different body's of water and never did fail to connect.

I would agree that it gets a little crazy chasing new toys. Can be guilty of that at times admittedly. A lot of the more popular fishing channels these days seem to be so geared towards showcasing new tech but really when you step back a bit and consider your own experiences, and what you hope to get out of fishing it really is a lot of nice to have, not need to have.