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Old 05-28-2022, 08:20 AM
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Default Draw system overhaul

I just recently completed the Mariam‘s turkey special license Hunt. I had a great time and realized that my 12-year-old who is going to be eligible to enter the draw system will never pull this tag with the current system. There are a few others that have the same problem. It may be time to upgrade our draw system to reflect the number of applicants. There needs to be a hybrid lottery system or something in the near future.
I think our draw system has been great but the reason for that is the number of applicants in past years. Change is now required. Any thoughts?
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:11 AM
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Yea, I have thoughts, but it involves a monetary cost and no one seems to like that.
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:16 AM
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Yea, I have thoughts, but it involves a monetary cost and no one seems to like that.
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:19 AM
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Youth hunters are the future. We have had our time.
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:27 AM
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Yea, I have thoughts, but it involves a monetary cost and no one seems to like that.
https://outly.com/outly/journal/neva...on-information

Why are we not using a draw system like this for some of our draws that are now virtually impossible to get for many (turkey, 437 sheep, ect....). Keep hearing about how our draw system is so great...when in reality it is broken in so many ways.

A system like this allowed a buddy to be drawn for his desert sheep in Nevada this year. Everyone has a chance, and your chance increases with every year you put in.

ps. and manage our damn wildlife! Not like Alberta doesn't have the funds to do so
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:43 AM
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Youth hunters are the future. We have had our time.
So you waited your time until you could get the draw tag and now want the system changed?

While I agree that youth hunters are our future, what has changed? Haven't they always been our future?

I'm not saying the system is perfect or that it couldn't use an overhaul, but there are things we could do today that would greatly affect wait times for draws. One being proof of residency. Every vac truck operator in Fort Mac seems to hunt moose as a resident of Alberta but when their 2 week stretch of work is done they are back to The Rock and sleeping in their own bed.
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:49 AM
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So you waited your time until you could get the draw tag and now want the system changed?

While I agree that youth hunters are our future, what has changed? Haven't they always been our future?

I'm not saying the system is perfect or that it couldn't use an overhaul, but there are things we could do today that would greatly affect wait times for draws. One being proof of residency. Every vac truck operator in Fort Mac seems to hunt moose as a resident of Alberta but when their 2 week stretch of work is done they are back to The Rock and sleeping in their own bed.
What has changed is we could realistically wait to draw a tag. New hunters will not have the same opportunity.
Definitely the non-resident posing as a resident problem needs to be addressed. I have a friend who has lived in Texas for 10 years and still has a resident win card.
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:56 AM
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Not sure if its changed now but when moving to Alberta and getting a WIN card/hunting license all I had to do was tick a box that I had held a hunting license in another province before, or something to that effect.

What's wrong with a mandatory hunter education course or proof that you have taken a hunter education course in another province before before you can get a license in Alberta? That alone would weed out a lot of the new people getting licenses and make it so that they have to have some basic knowledge before they can wander around with a firearm in the bush.

I'm sure we all have met people that we suspect just ticked the box and had no prior hunter education training.
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:05 AM
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What has changed is we could realistically wait to draw a tag. New hunters will not have the same opportunity.
Definitely the non-resident posing as a resident problem needs to be addressed. I have a friend who has lived in Texas for 10 years and still has a resident win card.

Why can't they wait 10 - 15 years like everyone else? Or I should say, most everyone else?
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:22 AM
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Why can't they wait 10 - 15 years like everyone else? Or I should say, most everyone else?
There are draws you will never get now. Those ones need to be addressed. They could easily be switched over to the system I pasted above. Priority could be transferred over.
Back when 437 came about I started applying. Can't remember how many years I had on it but somehow missed a year once (don't remember why). I quit. Was pointless after that
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:23 AM
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Been #999 for many years (12+). Hope to cash in on the draw someday. I would enjoy hunting Turkey. By overhaul, would discredit Alberta hunters that have built up priorities.
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:23 AM
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Been #999 for many years (12+). Hope to cash in on the draw someday. I would enjoy hunting Turkey. By overhaul, would discredit Alberta hunters that have built up priorities.
See above link

ps. I have 12 years turkey priority as well and I'd welcome the change. Means there would be a chance I could draw it again
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:30 AM
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I was thinking of just modifying the existing system with a hybrid system. One in which some of the tags are allotted for people building priority and another one using priority points for a lottery system.
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:37 AM
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I came from BC almost 10 years ago and for example put in for a Bull Rosi draw on the Island every year without drawing one in 25 consecutive years. It's a lottery system so odds are a guy will never get one but some people have drawn 3, 4, 5 times in the same period.

I like the Alberta system because draws are a direct result of how many years a person puts in. How can it be any more fair than that? Ya, it sucks when you first start out but for most species you know that eventually you will get your chance at a draw tag and in the meantime there are plenty of other hunting opportunities available.
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:39 AM
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There are draws you will never get now. Those ones need to be addressed. They could easily be switched over to the system I pasted above. Priority could be transferred over.
Back when 437 came about I started applying. Can't remember how many years I had on it but somehow missed a year once (don't remember why). I quit. Was pointless after that

So kinda like me waiting until I'm 50 to start entering antelope draws in prime wmus then.

I've got a better chance of hitting the floor at Ruth Chris gagging on a steak sandwich.
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:50 AM
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So kinda like me waiting until I'm 50 to start entering antelope draws in prime wmus then.

I've got a better chance of hitting the floor at Ruth Chris gagging on a steak sandwich.
Way easier just to head to Wyoming or the like. You can hunt Antelope every year, far more 15"+ heads around, no waiting and the cost is pretty darn reasonable.

I agree with a lot of guys, the issue with our draw system is the huge number of applicants for relatively small numbers of tags. That won't change until the cost of entering goes up quite a bit. Will be interested to see if having to have a WC last year reduced the number of applicants much.

The idea of having a priority point draw for 10% of the yearly tags seems to have some merit in my books.
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Positrac View Post
I came from BC almost 10 years ago and for example put in for a Bull Rosi draw on the Island every year without drawing one in 25 consecutive years. It's a lottery system so odds are a guy will never get one but some people have drawn 3, 4, 5 times in the same period.

I like the Alberta system because draws are a direct result of how many years a person puts in. How can it be any more fair than that? Ya, it sucks when you first start out but for most species you know that eventually you will get your chance at a draw tag and in the meantime there are plenty of other hunting opportunities available.
Turkey? 437 sheep? 444 sheep? 408? Soon to be antelope? Let me know how that works out (ps. it won't)
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:57 AM
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So kinda like me waiting until I'm 50 to start entering antelope draws in prime wmus then.

I've got a better chance of hitting the floor at Ruth Chris gagging on a steak sandwich.
Sad when an antelope is soon to be a once in a lifetime tag. Many draws are unachievable.

Using a squared priority system, may have a chance at a second


In case there are a few that didn't bother to look at above posted link, a quick rundown on squared priority.

You have 2 years priority and applying the 3rd year. 2 squared is 4 plus the 1 for the year you are applying means your name is in 5 times
You have 3 years priority and applying the 4th year. 3 squared is 9 plus the 1 for the year you are applying means your name is in 10 times.

Everyone has a chance on year one. Chance increase exponentially every year thereafter. Sheep hunting partner just drew a nonresident Nevada desert sheep tag after 8 years because of this system.
Take all these unachievable draws in alberta and transfer priority to this system.
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Last edited by MountainTi; 05-28-2022 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 05-28-2022, 11:03 AM
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Way easier just to head to Wyoming or the like. You can hunt Antelope every year, far more 15"+ heads around, no waiting and the cost is pretty darn reasonable.

I agree with a lot of guys, the issue with our draw system is the huge number of applicants for relatively small numbers of tags. That won't change until the cost of entering goes up quite a bit. Will be interested to see if having to have a WC last year reduced the number of applicants much.

The idea of having a priority point draw for 10% of the yearly tags seems to have some merit in my books.
Cost of tag goes on visa card. If not drawn, it is reimbursed. Works down south, why not here? Seems pretty easy.

I seem to remember putting in your draws right at F&W office back in the day. And if I remember right (always a chance I'm not), you wrote out a cheque for the cost of the tag if drawn. Cheque wasn't cashed obviously if you weren't drawn. Anyone else remember that? Like I say, I could be off on that one.
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Old 05-28-2022, 11:17 AM
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Increase the price of draws
Increase the price of tags
Pay for the tag when you apply
Decrease the amount of people that can be added to group draws
6 month residency for hunting privileges

Pretty simple

If you don’t want to pay to play then feel free to stick to general whitetail, supplemental deer, general elk or undersubscribed tags
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Old 05-28-2022, 11:28 AM
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Increase the price of draws
Increase the price of tags
Pay for the tag when you apply
Decrease the amount of people that can be added to group draws
6 month residency for hunting privileges

Pretty simple

If you don’t want to pay to play then feel free to stick to general whitetail, supplemental deer, general elk or undersubscribed tags
I'd rather see 1 year for residency.
How about the draws that are now virtually unattainable?
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Old 05-28-2022, 11:59 AM
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3 or 5 year wait for residency, proof of paid provincial income tax required every year for everyone.

No draw species tags for outfitters or non residents

No other crap - wait your turn, and teach your kids the same. Moose are once in a lifetime south of the border, we can hunt them every 2-10 years in most zones. So turkeys and antelope are a long wait. They’re like 5 meals each if you chew the bones. If it really means that much to you go south where there’s more. Sheep can’t be fixed, demand far outstrips supply everywhere.

The refund thing is so friggen stupid, admin costs are prohibitive. Several states have gone away from this, just stop bringing it up.

The rich arsehats always wanting to attach a multi thousand price to tags and access- get bent. I’ll have some treaty friends to shoot your prized critter for nothing, and watch the bios shove tag restrictions up yer wallet.

We have it the best out of all of NA (except maybe sask) so just get outside and enjoy it.
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Old 05-28-2022, 12:13 PM
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Turkey? 437 sheep? 444 sheep? 408? Soon to be antelope? Let me know how that works out (ps. it won't)
Ya, it sucks that there are more people than there is game to go around. I just don’t think a guy should be worried about getting a second draw tag when there are guys who have been putting in for years that haven’t got their first one yet.

There are a few species I won’t get to hunt in Alberta under the present system because I was late to the game. I’m not opposed to having a priority point draw system for 10% of the yearly tags but I definitely don’t want to see a full-on lottery system like BC.
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Old 05-28-2022, 12:29 PM
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3 or 5 year wait for residency, proof of paid provincial income tax required every year for everyone.

No draw species tags for outfitters or non residents

No other crap - wait your turn, and teach your kids the same. Moose are once in a lifetime south of the border, we can hunt them every 2-10 years in most zones. So turkeys and antelope are a long wait. They’re like 5 meals each if you chew the bones. If it really means that much to you go south where there’s more. Sheep can’t be fixed, demand far outstrips supply everywhere.

The refund thing is so friggen stupid, admin costs are prohibitive. Several states have gone away from this, just stop bringing it up.

The rich arsehats always wanting to attach a multi thousand price to tags and access- get bent. I’ll have some treaty friends to shoot your prized critter for nothing, and watch the bios shove tag restrictions up yer wallet.

We have it the best out of all of NA (except maybe sask) so just get outside and enjoy it.
Outfitters aren’t the problem
The problem is residents and the people who pretend to live here
Your not going to get 3-5 years residency proof
Hunting alberta isn’t that good, besides sheep there no reason to hunt here unless your cheap.
Unregulated hunting and mismanagement with what can be managed has turned alberta into a place that isn’t worth looking at hunting unless you live here
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Old 05-28-2022, 12:37 PM
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Way easier just to head to Wyoming or the like. You can hunt Antelope every year, far more 15"+ heads around, no waiting and the cost is pretty darn reasonable.

I agree with a lot of guys, the issue with our draw system is the huge number of applicants for relatively small numbers of tags. That won't change until the cost of entering goes up quite a bit. Will be interested to see if having to have a WC last year reduced the number of applicants much.

The idea of having a priority point draw for 10% of the yearly tags seems to have some merit in my books.

Elk would be way higher up the bucket list Dean but I hear ya. Antelope not a big priority for me so I'm not sweating it. I'll strap a gun rest to my walker when my 15 priority lands.

Could have whacked a couple of hundred on the long weekend while gopher hunting but restrained myself. Always amazes me how goofy they are until the first shot is fired in antelope season.
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Old 05-28-2022, 12:43 PM
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I'd rather see 1 year for residency.
How about the draws that are now virtually unattainable?
Hard to say what to do with those tags
A lot of people have tied up decades of draw opportunities waiting to pull some of those sheep tags. On the other hand too, They have all still had the opportunity to hunt on a general tag when they were selected. So wiping them all clear and going to a lottery isn’t as big of a deal.
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Old 05-28-2022, 12:43 PM
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Outfitters aren’t the problem
The problem is residents and the people who pretend to live here
Your not going to get 3-5 years residency proof
Hunting alberta isn’t that good, besides sheep there no reason to hunt here unless your cheap.
Unregulated hunting and mismanagement with what can be managed has turned alberta into a place that isn’t worth looking at hunting unless you live here
Yeah if we all lived with mom and dad and had no families we would have lots of extra cash to spend hunting.
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Old 05-28-2022, 12:46 PM
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https://www.outdoorlife.com/deep-div...-game-hunting/


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Old 05-28-2022, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by marky_mark View Post
Outfitters aren’t the problem
The problem is residents and the people who pretend to live here
Your not going to get 3-5 years residency proof
Hunting alberta isn’t that good, besides sheep there no reason to hunt here unless your cheap.
Unregulated hunting and mismanagement with what can be managed has turned alberta into a place that isn’t worth looking at hunting unless you live here
Yes they are a problem - I know it won’t change the wait by much but non residents should not get tags over residents. Principles and perception matter if you want residents to buy into wildlife management. There is no reason a person can’t prove residency, and build priority while in a 3-5 year wait. Most tags take that long or longer anyway, and it would get rid of the pretenders

Unregulated….well no one likes it but that ain’t changing as long as we’re attached to Ottawa.

Your version of “hunting” doesn’t line up with the majority of Alberta residents. Very few are interested in flying around the world and plugging big horned animals. You think people are jealous or “cheap” but they aren’t, just different. Most of us want to hunt every year, eat wild game and occasionally draw an interesting tag. Horns often get fed to the family dog or tossed in the garage or garden. Score is for hockey games. I don’t begrudge you your safaris but don’t pretend that b&c records are the priority for management.
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Old 05-28-2022, 01:03 PM
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Yeah if we all lived with mom and dad and had no families we would have lots of extra cash to spend hunting.
Some of us prefer to work and do what they love
Not sit on the coach, smoking a pack of darts a day wondering why life is so hard
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