Alberta as 51st US State

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Salavee

First of all , as an outdoorsman, I would not like to see our population grow to 30 or 40 million in a few short years as relocation to the State of Alberta would be a dream move for many Americans.. primarily sportsmen, who would buy up every piece of available land we have left, and then some. The shine would soon wear off for many of them and inevitably,our Alberta would permanently inherit many of the negative issues that are specific to America.

Best move, and the easiest, is that we clean up the huge mess that now confronts us and get this place moving again. That chore, unlike a Trudeau budget wont happen by itself!

Possible influx of Americans moving north is a realistic concern. Hard to say the level of increase Alberta would see though but I would expect an increase

I think everyone who considers any form of separation would be all for cleaning up the huge mess. The problem is we are in this situation because of the direction this country has gone politically and this was voted into power.

A solution would be great but what is it?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

"Dont let the door hit you on the way out"
"Good riddance"

I would suggest that the people who are considering moving are the people you would want to keep in your country.
I'm sure the free health care will just get better as the people who pay into it find incentive to move away, and the people who take away from it only have incentive to stay.

Exactly! The people that would have an incentive to leave, are the ones that are tired of working , only to have the federal government take more from them, and lower their standard of living. The people with incentive to stay, are the ones that want to live on handouts, paid for by the people that are working for a living.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Possible influx of Americans moving north is a realistic concern. Hard to say the level of increase Alberta would see though but I would expect an increase

I think everyone who considers any form of separation would be all for cleaning up the huge mess. The problem is we are in this situation because of the direction this country has gone politically and this was voted into power.

A solution would be great but what is it?

Agree. I'd prefer Confederation be a level playing field and we had a system that worked. Obviously, 'democracy' in Canada means that if you live in Ontario and Quebec, your vote counts, and the federal government will pander to your province. If you live in the prairies, your vote counts for nothing, you will have no representation, and your entire economy can be smashed because the people out east don't give a rip, just send your $20 Billion transfer payment and shut the hell up. And there is zero interest in changing this formula, and no way for Alberta to force a change.

For those who love Confederation and this system of abuse, and think the status quo is just fine, and anybody who disagrees is a crybaby whiner....you are part of the complacent, apathetic problem.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by Selkirk

.
This one's for all the Whiners and Crybabies here . . .

Just Shut-Up and do it


And 'Good Riddance' to ya ❗

Selkirk

WOW! Guess this is a good indication why political threads were shut down in the past.

Anyway Selkirk, judging by your comments, I have to assume you are perfectly happy with the current situation and leadership in Canada, Alberta in particular. If so, your decision, your choice. Good on Ya. That said, it seems other people, myself included, are not so content and we're willing to at least look at options. I see this discussion as a way to examine what possible alternatives we may have. Myself, I don't see a lot of choices. Basically, sit back, shut up and keep on taking what we have been (not my first choice), attempt to follow quebecs lead and become a country within a country (probably never be allowed by the current administration), try to go it alone as a new country (all sorts of issues there), or become the 51st state. Can anyone out there offer any other possibilities?

[traderal]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

For those who love Confederation and this system of abuse, and think the status quo is just fine, and anybody who disagrees is a crybaby whiner....you are part of the complacent, apathetic problem.

Well said. We do have it good. And if you are retired and only have x number of years to live you probably don't give a s*** what happens to those still left.
That is a very selfish attitude. Mr 58 and Selkirk I don't hear any solutions from you just the standard blah blah put up or shut up.
As I see it unless something changes the younger generation and new immigrants will continue voting in the lieberals down east and in the bigger cities out west too. Eventually (soon) Alberta has to make a hard choice.
Now my opinion about joining the US. If the current democrats win the next election then US is going down big time and I'm not sure I want to be part of it.
At present Kenney doesn't seem to be making any headway, and I see more information on AO about current issues (like the fake blockades), plus some easy research on Google, than anything coming out of his Energy War Room, I guess they haven't figured out how to plug in their computers yet.
When you have it good you want to even make it better, well I guess most do.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

And Ken....sorry buddy, but your post is fear mongering nonsense. Can't say more to it than that.

How so? I was asking some questions? Can you show where I am wrong, because that would be great.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

How so? I was asking some questions? Can you show where I am wrong, because that would be great.

Well, if (huge if) Alberta were able to secede, and made application to become the 51st state, and that application was accepted....I hardly think the result would be Red Dawn II, where the yanks roll in and steal all our property and anything that isn't on wheels...as you were sort of implying in your opening post.

It would be a negotiated entry, long and detailed, and not unlike a Free Trade agreement as to all the particulars. But I think the USA would offer very favorable terms, for the gains involved, and I believe Alberta would be so much better off than we currently are as the Red headed step child of Confederation.

You also need to understand that in a Republic, individual states have far more autonomy than in this centralized, Laurentian run autocracy we are currently being oppressed and raped by. Alberta could easily negotiate and maintain its universal health care, if that's an issue, and afford it since we wouldn't be getting ripped off by the 'equalization' formula (such a laughable word, equalization, when used to describe a massive transfer of wealth to a ruling province). There are so many potential favorable things that could come of it. I don't see anything positive coming from further pillaging in confederation.

Wait for it. They will cancel the Teck Frontier project next, because QC doesn't like it. Just so tired of the arrogant raping of Alberta.

And again, for all those who come out with the 'don't let the door hit you on the way out, so move, crybaby, etc...my personal reality is that I am financially well off enough, I could just sit back and watch Canada slowly be destroyed by this leftist ideological cult, with it's eco protests and pandering to every damn identity group with an extortion play....I will fare better than 95% of the population. I have no plans to move. I'd just like to see an actual rule of law applied equally across the board, and not see our country's entire rail system shut down by a minority of a minority, right in the face of court injunctions, with a castrated police only able to 'dialogue' and ask them to please stop. I'd like to see sanity prevail in resource development. And sanity in the regulatory regime, a reform of our punitive taxation system, regional representation and accountability in government, curtailing of special interest agendas....just sanity. For God's sake, all you have to do is watch the news to realize that some things need fixing! And if the rest of the country like it the way it is, at Alberta's expense, we should explore reasonable options. The status quo is bull****.

[lmtada]

Looking at Florida (Tampa) area right now. Sales tax of 6% & Weather perfect. Thinking pulling pin on my Canadian Passport.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I have a handful of friends who moved to the US and proffer their healthcare system. They say health insurance is reasonable and the ability to actually get treated vs waiting months or years to receive treatment under Canada’s “free” healthcare is a big plus. None of them suffer from chronic illness and in this situation their opinion may change

I know lots of Canada’s who leave the country to get medical treatment because of wait times or the treatment is not available in Canada. As well

It’s not an amazing system we have in Canada and you still pay for it through taxation

If you have a good job, and are covered by a comprehensive plan through your employer, your healthcare in the US is great.

Retire ....... do you pay thousands of dollars a month for continued coverage with NO GUARANTEE they won't cut you off at some point when you become high risk as you age? What happens when you get sick and you reach your maximum coverage limit? If you have assets you have worked for, you won't be eligible for full coverage like (blue cross subsidies) and you have to borrow against your home, equity or whatever....I guess you could battle cancer while you watch all your assets dispensary only to die and leave your wife and kids with nothing but debt.

What if your kid gets sick and your employers plan reaches maximum? do you take a loan to get the kid a new liver?

Why? because the politicians will have you believe socialized medicine is WRONG and will cause all sorts of issue - while the health care insurance companies and pharmaceuticals get rich.

Yeah, every single country in Europe and the G50 are WRONG and the US is right ..... because we know everyone has crap healthcare and long lines right???? this is complete propaganda and BS.

The healthcare/pharma lobby groups are the largest contributors to politicians and legislators spending billions of dollars a year to keep it that way.

Why does my son's EPI pen (he lives in Seattle) cost $600USD and it's $90CND here .......... 10 tines the price? why, it's made by the same company, and is the exact same product ????

THIS IS WHATS WRONG WITH AMERICA's health care program (or lack of one to be more precise).

I think I will stay here.

[Kurt505]

What if they adopted NWT and the Yukon at the same time? Then we could hunt Alaska!

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Exactly! The people that would have an incentive to leave, are the ones that are tired of working , only to have the federal government take more from them, and lower their standard of living. The people with incentive to stay, are the ones that want to live on handouts, paid for by the people that are working for a living.

C`mon Elk, surely you can do better than that !

I was born in Alberta 8+ decades ago and I`m all for staying where I am and so are a helluva lot of others.For most of us handouts aren`t in our vocabulary. You`re not the only one that's worked for what you have. Work now for a change for the better. Its happened before.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

What if they adopted NWT and the Yukon at the same time? Then we could hunt Alaska!

See? A little thinking, and the benefits are already expanding!

[EZM]

The other thing I keep reading here is how the oil price and oil industry will magically return to the days when we paved the streets with gold ...... while the reality is a border has nothing to do with global oil prices, and nothing would change in this regard.

[Geraldsh]

I think Saskatchewan and northeastern BC could be persuaded to meld with us and we would be a state that rivals Texas in size and resources.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by EZM

The other thing I keep reading here is how the oil price and oil industry will magically return to the days when we paved the streets with gold ...... while the reality is a border has nothing to do with global oil prices, and nothing would change in this regard.

What likely would change is global investment in Alberta/Saskatchewan as a result of a business friendly Federal gov't.

[fishtank]

Everything will be ok ...once Trudeau is gone .

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by sns2

What likely would change is global investment in Alberta/Saskatchewan as a result of a business friendly Federal gov't.

And the other thing that might change, is with pipelines built under a business and resource friendly regulatory regime, we might not have to discount our oil so horrendously, as we currently do. Even if oil prices don't improve, there is a lot of room to gain economically just on the current discount.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by EZM

If you have a good job, and are covered by a comprehensive plan through your employer, your healthcare in the US is great.

Retire ....... do you pay thousands of dollars a month for continued coverage with NO GUARANTEE they won't cut you off at some point when you become high risk as you age? What happens when you get sick and you reach your maximum coverage limit? If you have assets you have worked for, you won't be eligible for full coverage like (blue cross subsidies) and you have to borrow against your home, equity or whatever....I guess you could battle cancer while you watch all your assets dispensary only to die and leave your wife and kids with nothing but debt.

What if your kid gets sick and your employers plan reaches maximum? do you take a loan to get the kid a new liver?

Why? because the politicians will have you believe socialized medicine is WRONG and will cause all sorts of issue - while the health care insurance companies and pharmaceuticals get rich.

Yeah, every single country in Europe and the G50 are WRONG and the US is right ..... because we know everyone has crap healthcare and long lines right???? this is complete propaganda and BS.

The healthcare/pharma lobby groups are the largest contributors to politicians and legislators spending billions of dollars a year to keep it that way.

Why does my son's EPI pen (he lives in Seattle) cost $600USD and it's $90CND here .......... 10 tines the price? why, it's made by the same company, and is the exact same product ????

THIS IS WHATS WRONG WITH AMERICA's health care program (or lack of one to be more precise).

I think I will stay here.

There is flaws in both systems and one’s personal situation on which benefits you more. There is plenty who suffer or die waiting for or can’t afford treatment/surgery in both systems.

Just like you ask why an EPI pen cost you more in the US Canadians can ask why certain treatments are not approved in Canada or they have to wait years for surgery or their body needs to deteriorate to a certain level before even being put on a waiting list? I could continue on

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by fishtank

Everything will be ok ...once Trudeau is gone .

Unless another like him gets voted in or should I say when it happens. Going to need change to the agreement regarding confederation, changes to representation and the election process not just get rid of Trudeau

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by fishtank

Everything will be ok ...once Trudeau is gone .

At the very least its a great start.

[Ram94]

And the option to hunt in Alaska

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Salavee

C`mon Elk, surely you can do better than that !

I was born in Alberta 8+ decades ago and I`m all for staying where I am and so are a helluva lot of others.For most of us handouts aren`t in our vocabulary. You`re not the only one that's worked for what you have. Work now for a change for the better. Its happened before.

I didn't say that I was ready to leave yet, what I said , is that the people with the most incentive to leave, are the ones that have something to lose, because they worked to build a life for themselves.
You keep talking about change, but you apparently fail to realize that as long as central and eastern Canada keep electing the liberal mafia, Alberta can't begin the projects that will provide employment, and help our economy to recover.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by fishtank

Everything will be ok ...once Trudeau is gone .

Once he’s gone????

Over half this country is wants to give him a piece of there mind right now but the sob is nowhere to be found!!!!


He has to actually be here before we can send him gone.

[grouse_hunter]

I don't think that Alberta has a bright future as long as it remains a part of the Confederation. USA has its' issues, as any country, yet joining them seems like a judicious decision.

As for the healthcare aspect: If an individual pays for their own medical needs they might be encouraged to take better care of themselves through changes to their diet and lifestyle. Why should I pay for the expenses associated with people who choose to eat/drink/smoke themselves to death?

[depolloc]

Originally Posted by sns2

Trudeau is driving us away at break-neck speed. All avenues are being considered at this moment is my guess. Let's see how tough Kenney can actually get. So far, he's no more successful than Notley was if one is honest. Let's see what happens with Teck. This is bad folks. Really bad.

Agreed, I’m at a loss of words for Kenney, had such high hopes. I gave up my UCP membership because of him. Lots of talk, no action.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I didn't say that I was ready to leave yet, what I said , is that the people with the most incentive to leave, are the ones that have something to lose, because they worked to build a life for themselves.
You keep talking about change, but you apparently fail to realize that as long as central and eastern Canada keep electing the liberal mafia, Alberta can't begin the projects that will provide employment, and help our economy to recover.

As a concerned individual I am well aware of what`s been going on in Ontario and Quebec , as are most Canadians that vote. I am also aware that many folks
who supported the Liberals in the past are now bailing from their roster. There still remains a large ,very influential core that seem to be causing the grief.
Change is the goal. Fight or flight is the question.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by grouse_hunter

I don't think that Alberta has a bright future as long as it remains a part of the Confederation. USA has its' issues, as any country, yet joining them seems like a judicious decision.

As for the healthcare aspect: If an individual pays for their own medical needs they might be encouraged to take better care of themselves through changes to their diet and lifestyle. Why should I pay for the expenses associated with people who choose to eat/drink/smoke themselves to death?

Because you may be diagnosed with a disease next week that costs the taxpayers of this country well over a million to treat.

[grouse_hunter]

Originally Posted by sns2

Because you may be diagnosed with a disease next week that costs the taxpayers of this country well over a million to treat.

Perhaps that type of a diagnosis would indicate that it's my time to die. Afterall, not every human is meant to reach the end of their maximum life span.

Besides, I think that it's quite selfish of a person to consume a large portion of the finite resources allocated to the healthcare system in order to prolong their life for a few years.

Currently there is very little incentive for Canadians to take care of themselves. Sure some people go out of their way to exercise and eat well, while the vast majority do as they please knowing that their health issues will be covered by the healthcare system.

Anyways, back to the threads' topic: 'Merica - Yay, Canada - Nay!

[tri777]

Originally Posted by grouse_hunter

Perhaps that type of a diagnosis would indicate that it's my time to die. Afterall, not every human is meant to reach the end of their maximum life span.

Besides, I think that it's quite selfish of a person to consume a large portion of the finite resources allocated to the healthcare system in order to prolong their life for a few years.

Currently there is very little incentive for Canadians to take care of themselves. Sure some people go out of their way to exercise and eat well, while the vast majority do as they please knowing that their health issues will be covered by the healthcare system.

Anyways, back to the threads' topic: 'Merica - Yay, Canada - Nay!

And if after typing the above,
what would be your option if a sudden & massive stroke hit and you lost all use of your arms & legs?

[grouse_hunter]

Originally Posted by tri777

And if after typing the above, what happens should a sudden & massive stroke hit and you lost all use to your arms & legs?

I'm very comfortable financially. I would receive the care that I would need.

However if I had a serious medical episode and I knew that I had a few years left, I'd rather die and direct the funds which would be used to sustain me to a charitable cause. Probably grouse or pheasant oriented...

I haven't looked into the legalities of assisted suicide in Canada just yet. I'll cross that bridge if I ever get there.