Alberta as 51st US State

[CanadianEh]

Where do people come up with this crap.

If this ever did happen in fairytail land. It would likely be the worst thing to ever happen to Alberta.

Your far better off to hope Quebec leaves the country.

[Dewey Cox]

Quebec leave it's free lunch?
Where do you come up with this crap?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

Where do people come up with this crap.

If this ever did happen in fairytail land. It would likely be the worst thing to ever happen to Alberta.

Your far better off to hope Quebec leaves the country.

Yup...me timed it earlier but people need to vent with no real thought involved....feels good'eh!

[sns2]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Yup...me timed it earlier but people need to vent with no real thought involved....feels good'eh!

How old are your kids? I would think that many people who are fed right up are in large part worried about the future of their children.

Without resource development, our economic future looks incredibly bleak.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sns2

How old are your kids? I would think that many people who are fed right up are in large part worried about the future of their children.

Without resource development, our economic future looks incredibly bleak.

And if things keep going in this direction, as is guaranteed with the current federal government, it will get much worse. As the debt grows, and more immigrants arrive, with no new employment opportunities, there won't be enough money to maintain the benefits and social programs that we have now. Future generations will never now the Canada that most of us grew up in, their Canada will be more like Venezuela.

[lmtada]

Originally Posted by lmtada

Look where transfer payments are going in Quebec.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cree-visio...001406123.html

Here is little more info on new deep sea port , rail line in Quebec.
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-a...ment-1.4815159

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sns2

How old are your kids? I would think that many people who are fed right up are in large part worried about the future of their children.

Without resource development, our economic future looks incredibly bleak.

kids moved on and have careers but as with many families we rode the tuff times out too but then again never really worried too much cuz we ensured the bills were paid, roof over our heads and fed...ohh that did mean two jobs periodically and when I had time off my wife worked around my schedule to help ends meet....the future for our kid's is people need to lead by example and realize that things get tuff but you persevere...these traits will be passed onto your kids.....both are really well off even in these times but this was taught to them early in life....where there is a will there is a way.

[Smoky buck]

So for those who say just hold on till it turns around how long should we wait?

This was not a situation that was forced on this country it was voted into existence by the people of Canada not once but twice. This shows possibility of this situation repeating it self even if we get a break. We are also seeing more politicians leaning in the same direction in hopes of gaining votes

Things go well beyond pipelines and oil/gas industry. You hear about this most because of how hard people relying on the industry were hit. I have only received part of my income from the oil/gas industry for less than a year but the last 5 years have had a large impact on my family as well

Separation, joining the US, or renegotiating Alberta’s place in confederation are just an example of people seeking a need for change. The reason you get the extreme of separation is the people of the west seen plain as day through the last election their voice is not going to be represented in Canada

I stand on the grounds of change is needed and separation is only a possible option not the only answer. Right now what is clear the present system does not work for western Canada

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Yup...me timed it earlier but people need to vent with no real thought involved....feels good'eh!

Nice to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as not having any real thought involved. You might find though, that a tremendous amount of though has gone into this for many people. Much more thought than just saying 'we have it good, I'm happy with the way things are' and then tuning out.

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

kids moved on and have careers but as with many families we rode the tuff times out too but then again never really worried too much cuz we ensured the bills were paid, roof over our heads and fed...ohh that did mean two jobs periodically and when I had time off my wife worked around my schedule to help ends meet....the future for our kid's is people need to lead by example and realize that things get tuff but you persevere...these traits will be passed onto your kids.....both are really well off even in these times but this was taught to them early in life....where there is a will there is a way.

So we should just dig a little deeper, and keep on sending money back east because being oppressed builds character?
Teach our kids to work harder, so they can continue to afford giving their lunch money to a bully?

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

kids moved on and have careers but as with many families we rode the tuff times out too but then again never really worried too much cuz we ensured the bills were paid, roof over our heads and fed...ohh that did mean two jobs periodically and when I had time off my wife worked around my schedule to help ends meet....the future for our kid's is people need to lead by example and realize that things get tuff but you persevere...these traits will be passed onto your kids.....both are really well off even in these times but this was taught to them early in life....where there is a will there is a way.

Teach our kids to bend over and receive and hope one day it turns around.
I’ll teach my kids to say no and fight back.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Teach our kids to bend over and receive and hope one day it turns around.
I’ll teach my kids to say no and fight back.

No one is asking no one to bend over etc just gotta ride the economy out sometimes but unfortunately a lot of Albertans dug deep into dept during the hay days instead of paying off the essentials and putting money away for a rainy day.

We all saw it and I tell you it was tuff for me to tell people to smarten up as they had there homes paid for then rolled into excessive dept building bigger etc

then the economy went to hell and people are standing there blaming the government etc when they had complete control of their future and still do.

I went through this BS and did alright as in the '80's, as did many but there are many that cant see past the end of their noses then lay blame instead of accepting their decsions...oh and sometimes ya gotta work a few jobs to get by....

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Nice to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as not having any real thought involved. You might find though, that a tremendous amount of though has gone into this for many people. Much more thought than just saying 'we have it good, I'm happy with the way things are' and then tuning out.

I am dismissing peoples thought of separation etc because logistically speaking there is a lot involved oh and financially too so to stay this course might have increase costs to offset the initial start up...then you will hear more kicking and screaming...but we will see which way this swings and if I was a betting man Alberta will still be a province of Canada.

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

No one is asking no one to bend over etc just gotta ride the economy out sometimes but unfortunately a lot of Albertans dug deep into dept during the hay days instead of paying off the essentials and putting money away for a rainy day.

We all saw it and I tell you it was tuff for me to tell people to smarten up as they had there homes paid for then rolled into excessive dept building bigger etc

then the economy went to hell and people are standing there blaming the government etc when they had complete control of their future and still do.

I went through this BS and did alright as in the '80's, as did many but there are many that cant see past the end of their noses then lay blame instead of accepting their decsions...oh and sometimes ya gotta work a few jobs to get by....

You make some valid points Cat. Lots of people lived way beyond their means, even when making good bucks. Seems to be human nature I guess. People in Alberta aren't the only ones. Canada itself is on a major spending spree, all on the credit card. Provincial governments of Ontario and qeeeebc are doing the same. When it comes time to pay the tab, where do you think the turd will be looking? Problem is, Alberta is going the same direction. One of the big reasons for that, is the turd shutting down out resource sector so he can travel the world and thump his chest telling everyone how great Canada is and how we're saving the plant. The crap that is happening to our resource industry is made in Canada. Oil business everywhere else is purring along very nicely. It seem to me a sad story that we're willing to shoot ourselves in the economic head for bragging rights. As someone has already stated, "The rest of the world is laughing at us". By any reports that I have been able to find, Canada produces 1.4 to 1.6 % of total world greenhouse gasses. We could shut down the entire country and within a year it would make no difference, because other countries are still increasing their pollution output.

In response to your opening statement, Ottawa isn't asking us to bend over. They are telling us, forcing us to!

[Twisted Canuck]

58, there is something to what you say about people living on credit, but not everyone did. Besides that, there is something fundamentally flawed in your idea that the economy is just bad because of low oil prices. You completely miss the point that we have a Federal government, and more than a couple of provinces, that are actively hostile towards Alberta. They have passed legislation that bans pipelines, tankers, they are seriously considering not letting Teck go ahead with Frontier, and they pander to the eco terrorists who are right now actively crippling Canada's rail infrastructure. That goes way beyond what an oil worker saves from his paycheck!

Add in that QC generates a ton of electricity that they sell to the eastern seaboard, all of which is exempt from the equalization formula. And that they have cement plants that generate almost as much CO2 as Teck will....also exempt.....And you start to see that the playing field isn't level. Never mind how we have a fraction of the representation in Senate that the Maritimes do, and the list goes on.

You can't be that wilfully blind to the crappy deal Alberta is getting, can you?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by zabbo

You make some valid points Cat. Lots of people lived way beyond their means, even when making good bucks. Seems to be human nature I guess. People in Alberta aren't the only ones. Canada itself is on a major spending spree, all on the credit card. Provincial governments of Ontario and qeeeebc are doing the same. When it comes time to pay the tab, where do you think the turd will be looking? Problem is, Alberta is going the same direction. One of the big reasons for that, is the turd shutting down out resource sector so he can travel the world and thump his chest telling everyone how great Canada is and how we're saving the plant. The crap that is happening to our resource industry is made in Canada. Oil business everywhere else is purring along very nicely. It seem to me a sad story that we're willing to shoot ourselves in the economic head for bragging rights. As someone has already stated, "The rest of the world is laughing at us". By any reports that I have been able to find, Canada produces 1.4 to 1.6 % of total world greenhouse gasses. We could shut down the entire country and within a year it would make no difference, because other countries are still increasing their pollution output.

In response to your opening statement, Ottawa isn't asking us to bend over. They are telling us, forcing us to!

Bending over was Talking Moose's initial response as to teach our kids...hell no...fight but pick which hill to die on...even in dire times you gotta keep your witts about you and have a plan that may have to be to ride out a idiots turn running our country....if not then your just like the turd living in lala land...which many blame but yet have control over their own destiny again this will require individual effort in which some lack in this department but sure can complain because that's easier.

At the end of the day we are all in this together, like it or not just some prepare better than others.

[Dewey Cox]

58thecat, you sound like a battered spouse.
"Maybe if I get a second job, he won't hit me so much"

Alberta is the battered wife of confederation.
We can't stay.
We can do better.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

58, there is something to what you say about people living on credit, but not everyone did. Besides that, there is something fundamentally flawed in your idea that the economy is just bad because of low oil prices. You completely miss the point that we have a Federal government, and more than a couple of provinces, that are actively hostile towards Alberta. They have passed legislation that bans pipelines, tankers, they are seriously considering not letting Teck go ahead with Frontier, and they pander to the eco terrorists who are right now actively crippling Canada's rail infrastructure. That goes way beyond what an oil worker saves from his paycheck!

You can't be that wilfully blind to the crazy deal Alberta is getting, can you?

I hear you loud and clear on this that it goes well beyond the oil/gas sectors but eventually this will turn around because sooner or later it will effect all of the provinces and yup Alberta gets hit usually first...once the Quebecor's feel the squeeze they will squeal and actions will happen but along the way ya gotta be prepared to ride this poop storm out....if not your scrambling trying to make ends meet etc....thank god tomorrow is a fishing day

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

58thecat, you sound like a battered spouse.
"Maybe if I get a second job, he won't hit me so much"

Alberta is the battered wife of confederation.
We can't stay.
We can do better.

^^^Bingo!!!!!!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

58thecat, you sound like a battered spouse.
"Maybe if I get a second job, he won't hit me so much"

Alberta is the battered wife of confederation.
We can't stay.
We can do better.

gets you out of the line of fire and maybe opens another door as apposed to getting beat....we cant stay...we can do better..so what's your plan? Get into politics?

I am going to ride this out and I guess vote and hope....go fishing...everything is so much less complicated just me starring at a bunch of ice holes...hoping...wishing....preying

[glen moa]

Trudeau says we must endeavor to persevere.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

gets you out of the line of fire and maybe opens another door as apposed to getting beat....we cant stay...we can do better..so what's your plan? Get into politics?

I am going to ride this out and I guess vote and hope....go fishing...everything is so much less complicated just me starring at a bunch of ice holes...hoping...wishing....preying

WOW...enjoy the ride.. If I ignore the problem it will just go away...Right out of the Liberal handbook.....Just ask old sparkle socks it is his best line ever.

errr ummmm ahhhh budgets.....who cares about budgets..I am a spoiled rich kid...errr ummmm... oil ? who cares..Quebecers are the only people fit to run Canada....ahhhh. Sorry I am in some foreign country bending my knee to a dictator who thinks killing gays and raping women is all in a days work? ummmmm errrr but that is ok cause I want a seat on the UN and could careless what happens in ...ummmm errrr....Canada? Oh ya back to the question...budgets willl ummmm er ...(squirrel)...budgets will balance themselves????.. IF we just ignore it!!!!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

WOW...enjoy the ride.. If I ignore the problem it will just go away...Right out of the Liberal handbook.....Just ask old sparkle socks it is his best line ever.

errr ummmm ahhhh budgets.....who cares about budgets..I am a spoiled rich kid...errr ummmm... oil ? who cares..Quebecers are the only people fit to run Canada....ahhhh. Sorry I am in some foreign country bending my knee to a dictator who thinks killing gays and raping women is all in a days work? ummmmm errrr but that is ok cause I want a seat on the UN and could careless what happens in ...ummmm errrr....Canada? Oh ya back to the question...budgets willl ummmm er ...(squirrel)...budgets will balance themselves????.. IF we just ignore it!!!!

So what do you propose we do? Give us a legit battle plan? What had Albertans done in the past?

I agree the guys a clown but how and when do we get ride of him or as some say here separate? I would like to see something legit other than moaning and groaning...or hunker down well prepared to ride the storm out...part of the Canadian problem as with other countries citizens is when poop hits the fan they themselves are not prepared so we get this...not ignoring nothing just trying to make sense of it is all.

[58thecat]

endeavor/persevere

try hard to do or achieve something and continue in a course of action even in the face of difficulty or with little or no prospect of success...how's that working out for him

[sns2]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

So what do you propose we do? Give us a legit battle plan? What had Albertans done in the past?

I agree the guys a clown but how and when do we get ride of him or as some say here separate? I would like to see something legit other than moaning and groaning...or hunker down well prepared to ride the storm out...part of the Canadian problem as with other countries citizens is when poop hits the fan they themselves are not prepared so we get this...not ignoring nothing just trying to make sense of it is all.

Not to be rude, but the title of the thread is 51st State is it not? In my books that denotes a plan. You really think it would be hard to convince the US to to take on an immediate neighbor with the 3rd largest oil reserves on the planet, who also happens to be a key source of feed-stock for their refineries.

There are details to be sure, but Quebec had a binding referendum, so the precedent is there.

We are literally a few more bad decisions away from this option being seriously explored by our province.

We have been beat down, and told we are the ugly stepchild of confederation for decades. But they have been happy to cash our cheques. Everybody has a tipping point and I'd say that tipping point is closer than many like yourself think.

Economic downturns in the past have been largely based on price of oil, this one is being inflicted by our own gov't not allowing us to increase capacity to offset depressed prices.

The other downturn was based on Trudeau senior. Junior is one-upping his old man on this one.

Respectfully, you are wrong

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by sns2

Not to be rude, but the title of the thread is 51st State is it not? In my books that denotes a plan. You really think it would be hard to convince the US to to take on an immediate neighbor with the 3rd largest oil reserves on the planet, who also happens to be a key source of feed-stock for their refineries.

There are details to be sure, but Quebec had a binding referendum, so the precedent is there.

We are literally a few more bad decisions away from this option being seriously explored by our province.

We have been beat down, and told we are the ugly stepchild of confederation for decades. But they have been happy to cash our cheques. Everybody has a tipping point and I'd say that tipping point is closer than many like yourself think.

Economic downturns in the past have been largely based on price of oil, this one is being inflicted by our own gov't not allowing us to increase capacity to offset depressed prices.

The other downturn was based on Trudeau senior. Junior is one-upping his old man on this one.

Respectfully, you are wrong

Thanks, I've been trying to get those points across but my forehead was starting to hurt from banging it on the wall.....well said.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sns2

Not to be rude, but the title of the thread is 51st State is it not? In my books that denotes a plan. You really think it would be hard to convince the US to to take on an immediate neighbor with the 3rd largest oil reserves on the planet, who also happens to be a key source of feed-stock for their refineries.

There are details to be sure, but Quebec had a binding referendum, so the precedent is there.

We are literally a few more bad decisions away from this option being seriously explored by our province.

We have been beat down, and told we are the ugly stepchild of confederation for decades. But they have been happy to cash our cheques. Everybody has a tipping point and I'd say that tipping point is closer than many like yourself think.

Economic downturns in the past have been largely based on price of oil, this one is being inflicted by our own gov't not allowing us to increase capacity to offset depressed prices.

The other downturn was based on Trudeau senior. Junior is one-upping his old man on this one.

Respectfully, you are wrong

Seems now Quebec nation is getting upset now with the turd so hold tight next go around will have a different outcome....hunker down. I say sometime you gotta be right to be wrong or so wrong that eventually your right....sorry for the headaches

send Twisted Canuck a medic...bill me the expenses

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Proud to be an Albertan

and

Canadian.

While I can also see some things could use changing, the above do not need to.

This....just to get back on track from page 1.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Seems now Quebec nation is getting upset now with the turd so hold tight next go around will have a different outcome....hunker down. I say sometime you gotta be right to be wrong or so wrong that eventually your right....sorry for the headaches

send Twisted Canuck a medic...bill me the expenses

When it's all said and done, Trudeau will keep giving Quebec handouts whenever they squeal. He will buy them off again before the next election, and they will support him, because they don't like the alternatives. 9f you arte watching the news, the rail from Ottawa to Quebec City is being opened for service again, so Trudeau is showing special treatment to Quebec.

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/vi...uolgeJ25ZvaaMw

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by sns2

Not to be rude, but the title of the thread is 51st State is it not? In my books that denotes a plan. You really think it would be hard to convince the US to to take on an immediate neighbor with the 3rd largest oil reserves on the planet, who also happens to be a key source of feed-stock for their refineries.

There are details to be sure, but Quebec had a binding referendum, so the precedent is there.

We are literally a few more bad decisions away from this option being seriously explored by our province.

We have been beat down, and told we are the ugly stepchild of confederation for decades. But they have been happy to cash our cheques. Everybody has a tipping point and I'd say that tipping point is closer than many like yourself think.

Economic downturns in the past have been largely based on price of oil, this one is being inflicted by our own gov't not allowing us to increase capacity to offset depressed prices.

The other downturn was based on Trudeau senior. Junior is one-upping his old man on this one.

Respectfully, you are wrong

Well said. I believe we are living through one of those turning points in history. Things change, and anger is the emotion that drives it. For me, being the 51st state is Plan B; Plan A being full sovereignty. Happy either way though: confederation is doomed. For those still looking for answers, they are out there, you just have to dig. The short answer is this: money talks. What couldn't we accomplish if we get to keep our $20B per year?