Alberta as 51st US State

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

I have grandchildren too. Just because I differ from your opinion you have to swear and belittle. Way to get your point across.

Oh My Fishing's good is swearing?

[roper1]

Lived down there twice. Would love to live in Alberta, USA. It wouldn't be Nirvana, but they have such a better democracy than us.

The proposed Virginia gun grab........defeated by the will of the voters.......appeals to me!

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by roper1

Lived down there twice. Would love to live in Alberta, USA. It wouldn't be Nirvana, but they have such a better democracy than us.

The proposed Virginia gun grab........defeated by the will of the voters.......appeals to me!

I also lived in Missouri for almost 4 years. Grew up 15 minutes from Montana and spent a lot of time there. Traveled to or through 34 of the States and counting. I agree with you. There system of checks and balances seems to be more effective. And people believe in the rights of the individual, instead of being content as a subject of the crown.

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

So when we dont have things the way we want we should join the states?

What about when we dont want what they want? Go back to Canada?

Start our own country?

What if those South of Calgary dont want to leave?

What if Calgary wants to leave and Edmonton doesnt?

What if north of Edmonton doesnt want to leave Canada.

Majority rules?









OK then what about Canada?

Well said Huntsfurfish, I agree with you. The agenda of "joining the USA" or separating from Canada to form our own landlocked country is asinine! It is the same as taking your toy and going home when you were a child just becasue all the other kids didnt want to play GI Joe with you. These people need to Grow up, get off the forums and go try change things, rather than bitch and complain here.

Originally Posted by hal53

^^^^^ this attitude is why the west gets screwed...…..

This attitude isnt why the west gets screwed at all. Do we not live in a province with in a country where all the people get a say? Im guessing your version of a separate Alberta rests on having a lunatic dictator making all the decisions for all of us with no regard for what we as the people think? This is not a dictatorship. The vocal minority of separatists are just as free as the rest of us to VOTE and also to leave Alberta and go elsewhere if no one wants to play with you.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

Well said Huntsfurfish, I agree with you. The agenda of "joining the USA" or separating from Canada to form our own landlocked country is asinine! It is the same as taking your toy and going home when you were a child just becasue all the other kids didnt want to play GI Joe with you. These people need to Grow up, get off the forums and go try change things, rather than bitch and complain here.




This attitude isnt why the west gets screwed at all. Do we not live in a province with in a country where all the people get a say? Im guessing your version of a separate Alberta rests on having a lunatic dictator making all the decisions for all of us with no regard for what we as the people think? This is not a dictatorship. The vocal minority of separatists are just as free as the rest of us to VOTE and also to leave Alberta and go elsewhere if no one wants to play with you.

You are welcome to your opinion. It's worth what it cost.

I'm well past 50, so the 'time to grow up' bit is cute. Go file your taxes, and realize that a big portion of that goes to support QC, and not your standard of living.

[CanadianEh]

I understand it supports Quebec.

As I said before. The answer isn't Alberta leaving.



It's Quebec.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

I understand it supports Quebec.

As I said before. The answer isn't Alberta leaving.



It's Quebec.

Well if you can figure out how to make that work, and they take their share of Canada's debt with em....I'd be ok with that as a start.

But good luck with that. The way it stands right now, they rule Canada, and collect the Tribute payment every year. Why would they want to leave such a slick system? Especially when the Constitution supports them? Equalization is built into the Constitution, and Legault already said they are entitled to their transfer payments.

You'd have better luck getting rid of a tapeworm drinking cheap whiskey.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Osky

A question from an outsider. If Alberta were to become independent do you have the infrastructure in place to manage your society? Healthcare, tax collection, judiciary, prisons, etc? I do not know how much is handled by your "federal" government now.

It’s roughly similar to the way most of the US state governments are setup. There are provincial departments that manage most of those portfolios with federal guidelines they must adhere to. Taxation is the largest gap, all income and most point of sale taxes are collected by the federal government which will include a provincial income tax component. The federal government then transfers monies to the provinces after applying an equalization formula designed to level out wealth gaps between the provinces. This is one of the things that upsets people here, we contribute a lot more than we get back because of the equalization formula currently in place.

Our constitution was largely rewritten in 1982 when we became legislatively independent of the UK so it’s got some modern provisions but it was never signed by Quebec because they couldn’t get on board. At that time there was a push from the western provinces to reform the senate which is seen by many as being unfairly blocked by Quebec. Currently senate seats are distributed on a regional basis but two provinces, Ontario and Quebec are defined as their own regions and so have a larger proportion of the seats, 48 of 105. Senators are appointed rather than elected as your senate was originally structured but the appointments are made by the prime minister rather than the provinces.

Any constitutional amendments would require both a majority of the provinces that together make up at least 50% of the total population and a majority in both the house and senate. As such even if the west managed to get together with some of the smaller Maritime provinces you could satisfy the majority of provinces requirement(7) but you wouldn’t hit the 50% population threshold or win a senate vote without either Ontario or Quebec supporting it. It’s considered unlikely they are going to vote money out of their pockets.

In addition to this Alberta’s political history has been quite unique, we’ve only had five changes of the government in the 115 years we’ve been a province. Two parties managed to retain power for 40 year chunks of that respectively. Having new majority parties form government after the last two elections has been quite a shift for us and is largely a result of weaker economy since international oil prices dropped in 2015.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

Well said Huntsfurfish, I agree with you. The agenda of "joining the USA" or separating from Canada to form our own landlocked country is asinine! It is the same as taking your toy and going home when you were a child just becasue all the other kids didnt want to play GI Joe with you. These people need to Grow up, get off the forums and go try change things, rather than bitch and complain here.




This attitude isnt why the west gets screwed at all. Do we not live in a province with in a country where all the people get a say? Im guessing your version of a separate Alberta rests on having a lunatic dictator making all the decisions for all of us with no regard for what we as the people think? This is a dictatorship. The vocal minority of separatists are just as free as the rest of us to VOTE and also to leave Alberta and go elsewhere if no one wants to play with you.

So did you write this before or after old sparkle socks would not allow the legally elected Royal opposition to sit in on his meeting with the other leaders including the separatist block party??? because Andrew Sheer said a few things our dicktator in Ottawa did not like??????

HE has gone way to far and it is time for CANADA to wake up BEFORE it is to late.

[CanadianEh]

Honestly when I read "old sparkle socks" the first person who came to mind was Nenshi. Haha

[ESOXangler]

Sure it's a great idea til a swarm of hard working Hispanics come up and out pace and out work most in all of the labour jobs we have. Twisted would love that cause hes a business owner but most of you around here would be crying blue murder.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

I understand it supports Quebec.

As I said before. The answer isn't Alberta leaving.



It's Quebec.

I can respect that you don’t want Alberta to separate or join the US. Like I said earlier in this thread most who would consider separation would much rather see another solution. If you have a better solution to improve the future of Alberta I think most would be all ears

Unfortunately though Alberta has no say in Quebec leaving Canada so stay as part of Canada means Quebec being part of it

[Ronaround]

Well as a US citizen and having experienced your providence 3 times hunting.
you have a beautiful area, love the woods and hunting too. all who i met are friendly too. Thank you for that!
Your welcome to join US if you like a Conservative view of life. gun, God and country. No socialism here ,not now not ever.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

In case you dont want to look for it.

I totally agree with your initial post was about the most clear post of this complete thread...all the rest is just us having a squabble over the pretty girl with a few teeth.

I mentioned earlier that this thread sounds like that idiot running the Bloc Québécois so the answer is bloc Albertacois?

Alberta is part of Canada, proud Canadians who wear a poppy and stand up for what is right for all not just a small grumpy group with a voice on the Internet groaning because things are a little tuff right now....you people forget there has and will be hard times and yes change is a coming but separating is not the answer because even within our great province there will be such chaos and hatred towards each other that only a few years ago were enjoying the economy...like I said some just want to take thier hockey ball away from the raid hockey game and think they have the power...well I got a few spares to see us through the season.

Proud Albertan but more so a proud Canadian.

Cinch up your chin straps it's gonna be a ruff one

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ronaround

Well as a US citizen and having experienced your providence 3 times hunting.
you have a beautiful area, love the woods and hunting too. all who i met are friendly too. Thank you for that!
Your welcome to join US if you like a Conservative view of life. gun, God and country. No socialism here ,not now not ever.

Happy you enjoyed the hospitality but you folks got way more issues than us, you do have a beautiful country to visit though.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Uh, yes, I believe it will get better. Might not be easy or quick and will require some serious effort on the part of our politicians.

Will it be to your satisfaction? Unlikely.

Again....well said.

And nope some people just gotta have it thier way or no way but that's not how this province nor country runs it takes more than one. It it has to be rational thinking, planning and preparation not based on an article that one writes on hey this is how it would be to be part of the states etc....

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Ronaround

Well as a US citizen and having experienced your providence 3 times hunting.
you have a beautiful area, love the woods and hunting too. all who i met are friendly too. Thank you for that!
Your welcome to join US if you like a Conservative view of life. gun, God and country. No socialism here ,not now not ever.

Out of curiosity, can you tell us how much a year you pay for health insurance in total? We always talk about it, but the truth is we have no idea how your system really works.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I totally agree with your initial post was about the most clear post of this complete thread...all the rest is just us having a squabble over the pretty girl with a few teeth.

I mentioned earlier that this thread sounds like that idiot running the Bloc Québécois so the answer is bloc Albertacois?

Alberta is part of Canada, proud Canadians who wear a poppy and stand up for what is right for all not just a small grumpy group with a voice on the Internet groaning because things are a little tuff right now....you people forget there has and will be hard times and yes change is a coming but separating is not the answer because even within our great province there will be such chaos and hatred towards each other that only a few years ago were enjoying the economy...like I said some just want to take thier hockey ball away from the raid hockey game and think they have the power...well I got a few spares to see us through the season.

Proud Albertan but more so a proud Canadian.

Cinch up your chin straps it's gonna be a ruff one

Many people have asked you what the solution you refer to is. All you have talked about is riding out the storm and buckling chin straps. That sounds like an interview with a hockey player between periods. Many people have clearly stated that Alberta is powerless to affect ANY change under the current terms of equalization and the climate in eastern Canada concerning resource development. Do you grasp that members of parliament are taking out ads on social media that decry Alberta's energy industry with taxpayer money?

http://brianlilley.com/ontario-liber...-alberta-jobs/

So again I ask, what in the name of all that is good is your plan and how do you see fair terms coming our way?

Please be specific and don't talk in quaint euphemisms.

All anyone wants on this thread is to be treated fairly and with equity, not one set of rules for Quebec and a different one for us.

BTW, most of us would consider being compared with Quebec separatists an insult. Confederation and the Federal gov't is so tilted in their favor that it is obscene. Any Albertan I have spoken with, or read on this forum just wants equity.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sns2

Many people have asked you what the solution you refer to is. All you have talked about is riding out the storm and buckling chin straps. That sounds like an interview with a hockey player between periods. Many people have clearly stated that Alberta is powerless to affect ANY change under the current terms of equalization and the climate in eastern Canada concerning resource development. Do you grasp that members of parliament are taking out ads on social media that decry Alberta's energy industry with taxpayer money?

http://brianlilley.com/ontario-liber...-alberta-jobs/

So again I ask, what in the name of all that is good is your plan and how do you see fair terms coming our way?

Please be specific and don't talk in quaint euphemisms.

All anyone wants on this thread is to be treated fairly and with equity, not one set of rules for Quebec and a different one for us.

BTW, most of us would consider being compared with Quebec separatists an insult. Confederation and the Federal gov't is so tilted in their favor that it is obscene. Any Albertan I have spoken with, or read on this forum just wants equity.

I don't have a plan as per say just need to see how things transpire at the capital with the turd floating around because sooner than later he will not be in this position. Treated fairly wont happen we got FN and Quebec etc getting more than the average joe so that's not even in the equation and wont be...sad....so what do we do?
That being said the OP proposed as per his initial post on this thread 51 st state so now I asked what's the plan going forward?
-The proposed state votes on the matter.
- The proposed state officially petitions Congress for Statehood.
- The proposed state must make sure it is following the constitution for its government.
-Both the Senate and the House vote with a majority to accept the state.
-The president signs the bill.
Good luck getting over the first hump because we Albertans don't see eye to eye even amongst ourselves.
We forget that all of us are in the same boat no one more hard done by then the other but it sure seems comical how some seem to think the grass is greener on the other side....first battle is to get ride of the turd.....concentrate on the problem that we have....or as per all citizens of Alberta we have the choice to leave....

https://genius.com/Corb-lund-long-go...tchewan-lyrics

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I don't have a plan as per say just need to see how things transpire at the capital with the turd floating around because sooner than later he will not be in this position. Treated fairly wont happen we got FN and Quebec etc getting more than the average joe so that's not even in the equation and wont be...sad....so what do we do?
That being said the OP proposed as per his initial post on this thread 51 st state so now I asked what's the plan going forward?
-The proposed state votes on the matter.
- The proposed state officially petitions Congress for Statehood.
- The proposed state must make sure it is following the constitution for its government.
-Both the Senate and the House vote with a majority to accept the state.
-The president signs the bill.
Good luck getting over the first hump because we Albertans don't see eye to eye even amongst ourselves.
We forget that all of us are in the same boat no one more hard done by then the other but it sure seems comical how some seem to think the grass is greener on the other side....first battle is to get ride of the turd.....concentrate on the problem that we have....or as per all citizens of Alberta we have the choice to leave....

https://genius.com/Corb-lund-long-go...tchewan-lyrics

So your plan is to do nothing. Your plan is to wait for a change in government at the federal level. Then, nothing will change.

Canada will never again elect a Conservative government. The east likes things just as they are, and will never vote to give up any power such as a triple-E senate. We tried that. The east is not interested in fairness.

I believe a majority of Westerners are coming to the same conclusion. Whether we vote for independence or US statehood, either is better than the status quo.

[CanadianEh]

Dont get me wrong either..

If you spoke of a perfect world where nothing goes wrong... Alberta becoming independent is ideal.

The problem is that is looking through rose colored glasses. .. there are THOUSANDS of variables from big to very small which would need to be looked at. You dont suddenly jump out of an airplane without doing alot of checking and double checking of things ahead of time. And even if all goes well and the parachute opens, if you land in the middle of the ocean your still going to drown.

Seems like most believe it would be a hugely positive solution. Unemployment would be zero, and there would be so much money flowing out of the ground that all of us would be filthy rich.

What if we cannot pump the oil to any market? What if no countries trade with us? What if our currency is now worth nothing? What if we no longer can afford to have healthcare, and you have to pay to see doctors? What if the cost of living skyrockets becasue our goods now have to travel through a hostile Canada to reach us? What if a HUGE portion of Albertans leave becasue they want no part of leaving Canada? If there is even a tiny possibility it ends up perfect.. there for sure is a far far larger chance that it bankrupts Alberta and we are now a third world country.

you willing to take that risk? or place that risk upon your kids / grandchildren?

[Redhorse Ranch]

Plenty of what-ifs; all of which have answers if you dig for them.

Albertas' economy would compare with many independent countries.

We have resources which are still in demand, despite what the green terrorists insist. There is a market for them.

I prefer risky freedom to secure servitude. Canada is pushing us out.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Redhorse Ranch

So your plan is to do nothing. Your plan is to wait for a change in government at the federal level. Then, nothing will change.

Canada will never again elect a Conservative government. The east likes things just as they are, and will never vote to give up any power such as a triple-E senate. We tried that. The east is not interested in fairness.

I believe a majority of Westerners are coming to the same conclusion. Whether we vote for independence or US statehood, either is better than the status quo.

Then what is your plan..how do you go about getting this to happen? As I indicated there are may steps but if becoming a state is an option you gotta get the majority vote...then proceed.

[58thecat]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

hard to do something when not invited....dismissed from a meeting because you tell the truth....meh.

So now what can Kenney do? Apparently actions speak louder than words....take control of his province and enforce the law upon those illegal gatherings etc...stir the pot a bit...

[zabbo]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

I don't have a plan as per say just need to see how things transpire at the capital with the turd floating around because sooner than later he will not be in this position. Treated fairly wont happen we got FN and Quebec etc getting more than the average joe so that's not even in the equation and wont be...sad....so what do we do?
That being said the OP proposed as per his initial post on this thread 51 st state so now I asked what's the plan going forward?
-The proposed state votes on the matter.
- The proposed state officially petitions Congress for Statehood.
- The proposed state must make sure it is following the constitution for its government.
-Both the Senate and the House vote with a majority to accept the state.
-The president signs the bill.
Good luck getting over the first hump because we Albertans don't see eye to eye even amongst ourselves.
We forget that all of us are in the same boat no one more hard done by then the other but it sure seems comical how some seem to think the grass is greener on the other side....first battle is to get ride of the turd.....concentrate on the problem that we have....or as per all citizens of Alberta we have the choice to leave....

https://genius.com/Corb-lund-long-go...tchewan-lyrics

Think you're wrong on both counts. Your "plan" is to ride out the storm and it will soon be over! I'm having some real problems buying that. If anything it's likely to get worse. MUCH worse! As far as the turd not being around in a short time; not very likely. After all the crap shows during his first four years, $10.5M under the table to kadhar, mr dress up in India, telling veterans," we just can't afford what you're asking for", and so many more, he still got elected. True it is a minority, but only due to the fact that the block won so many seats in qeeeebec. The grand finale was the Jody Wilson-Raybould fiasco a few short months before the election! Pretty much shot himself in the political head and still came out on top. Sheer didn't put up much of a fight and that's the truth, but what kind of fight can the conservatives put up right now. Don't count on a non confidence vote, because all he has to do is make the block happy and he has majority. Pretty much like three members of the green party calling the shots in B.C. We all know how it pleases him to make Canada's spoiled child happy! He will very likely be around for a long time!

As for being treated fairly, yes, if we adopt your plan it won't happen. There is nothing wrong with exploring options, which is exactly what this discussion is all about. If you honestly don't believe change can happen, pick any Canadian newscast and see what our F.N. people are up to. That is a totally different discussion for another thread and I only mention it as an example of what can be accomplished.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by zabbo

Think you're wrong on both counts. Your "plan" is to ride out the storm and it will soon be over! I'm having some real problems buying that. If anything it's likely to get worse. MUCH worse! As far as the turd not being around in a short time; not very likely. After all the crap shows during his first four years, $10.5M under the table to kadhar, mr dress up in India, telling veterans," we just can't afford what you're asking for", and so many more, he still got elected. True it is a minority, but only due to the fact that the block won so many seats in qeeeebec. The grand finale was the Jody Wilson-Raybould fiasco a few short months before the election! Pretty much shot himself in the political head and still came out on top. Sheer didn't put up much of a fight and that's the truth, but what kind of fight can the conservatives put up right now. Don't count on a non confidence vote, because all he has to do is make the block happy and he has majority. Pretty much like three members of the green party calling the shots in B.C. We all know how it pleases him to make Canada's spoiled child happy! He will very likely be around for a long time!

As for being treated fairly, yes, if we adopt your plan it won't happen. There is nothing wrong with exploring options, which is exactly what this discussion is all about. If you honestly don't believe change can happen, pick any Canadian newscast and see what our F.N. people are up to. That is a totally different discussion for another thread and I only mention it as an example of what can be accomplished.

Good post

[Ronaround]

Originally Posted by sns2

Out of curiosity, can you tell us how much a year you pay for health insurance in total? We always talk about it, but the truth is we have no idea how your system really works.

This year i just signed up. 275.00 us per month. 6K deductible. for 100% coverage. Drs.office 25.00 per visit.
blood draws and such covered . age 62.5

wife 61 187.00 same cost apply. its bit of Obamma care.
But i can say we dont have to wait for surgery's for long standing issues.
bad back ,bad hip etc. schedule it, maybe 2-6 months max.
would i be correct my understanding that some scheduled surgery's are up to 5 year wait. My guide in Newfy was waiting 5 years for his back surgery and he was hurting too.

[Ken07AOVette]

$5,544.00 per year and $6,000 deductible?

I would have spent $144,000 (before deductible) for the wife and I over 26 years to have absolutely nothing other than Pulmonary Adema from fighting fire a couple years ago.

Thanks, pass.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

$5,544.00 per year and $6,000 deductible?

I would have spent $144,000 (before deductible) for the wife and I over 26 years to have absolutely nothing other than Pulmonary Adema from fighting fire a couple years ago.

Thanks, pass.

Probably evens out when you consider how much of your income is used in taxes to fund the Canadian system. Or more.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Probably evens out when you consider how much of your income is used in taxes to fund the Canadian system. Or more.

^^^ This...…..