Is there a perfect line for light spinners?

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by freeones

I didn't think it was necessary, but if it's not as obvious as I thought it was.

The line is constantly being damaged by contact with everything from the rod guides to rocks to things in your boat or the back of your truck. This is especially true for the last few feet in front of the lure that see the most contact with the bottom and debris in the water. Any abrasion will weaken the line.

Fish have teeth, sharp gill plates, sharp fins and rough scales. Having a stronger leader protects against these things.

Well I agree with some of your facts but we were talking Brown trout fishing as far as i know they don't have sharp gill plates, sharp fins or rough scales. I believe the main line will still come in contact with rod guides, rocks and things in the back of your truck and boat. so does this make the main line the leader or the knot the weak point.

[freeones]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Well I agree with some of your facts but we were talking Brown trout fishing as far as i know they don't have sharp gill plates, sharp fins or rough scales. I believe the main line will still come in contact with rod guides, rocks and things in the back of your truck and boat. so does this make the main line the leader or the knot the weak point.

Believe what you want to believe, I'm not here to argue with you for 6 pages, I'm just stating the facts.

The line will break at the weakest point, whatever the reason is for it being weak at that point, and regardless of whether it's on the main line or the leader.

The facts are pretty simple, and despite your statement and the one quote you managed to find, they are strongly on the side of the knot being weaker than the main line, some by as little as 5%, others up to 20% or more. Not my numbers, not my opinion, tested scientific data verified by multiple tests and multiple testers. It just so happens that my personal experience tends to fit the facts, and show that the knot is the weakest link if the line is otherwise in good shape or I didn't get bit off.

Originally Posted by horsetrader

A properly tied knot is stronger then the line itself.

That doesn't even make sense.....the best a perfect knot could be is 100% break strength and good luck finding that knot. Line breakes for countless reasons but the knot is the weakest point on line in perfect condition. If the line breaks at another point there was another cause.

[Serengeti Charters]

Palomar knot is proven in dozens of tests as the strongest knot you can tie

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That doesn't even make sense.....the best a perfect knot could be is 100% break strength and good luck finding that knot. Line breakes for countless reasons but the knot is the weakest point on line in perfect condition. If the line breaks at another point there was another cause.

Well of coarse it stands to reason it break for other reasons and the reason being the knot is stronger or the line is weaker take your pick.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by Serengeti Charters

Palomar knot is proven in dozens of tests as the strongest knot you can tie

yes you are right and I have never had a properly palomar knot break

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by freeones

Believe what you want to believe, I'm not here to argue with you for 6 pages, I'm just stating the facts.

The line will break at the weakest point, whatever the reason is for it being weak at that point, and regardless of whether it's on the main line or the leader.

The facts are pretty simple, and despite your statement and the one quote you managed to find, they are strongly on the side of the knot being weaker than the main line, some by as little as 5%, others up to 20% or more. Not my numbers, not my opinion, tested scientific data verified by multiple tests and multiple testers. It just so happens that my personal experience tends to fit the facts, and show that the knot is the weakest link if the line is otherwise in good shape or I didn't get bit off.

You can state what ever facts you like just remember there YOUR facts not THE facts

[freeones]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

You can state what ever facts you like just remember there YOUR facts not THE facts

You're kidding right?

2+2=4 whether I say it does or not, and whether you agree or not, the answer doesn't change.

It's empirical data, gathered in multiple laboratory tests. Opinions, whether they be mine or yours, are irrelevent to the results. The data speaks for itself, and it is a FACT.

This statement -

A properly tied knot is stronger then the line itself.

is false. Not because I say so, but because the data says so. You can continue to argue otherwise, and I'm sure you will, but there's nothing here to argue about, the numbers are in, and really, this debate was over before it even started.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by freeones

You're kidding right?

2+2=4 whether I say it does or not, and whether you agree or not, the answer doesn't change.

It's empirical data, gathered in multiple laboratory tests. Opinions, whether they be mine or yours, are irrelevent to the results. The data speaks for itself, and it is a FACT.

This statement -



is false. Not because I say so, but because the data says so. You can continue to argue otherwise, and I'm sure you will, but there's nothing here to argue about, the numbers are in, and really, this debate was over before it even started.

And I already agreed you can think what ever you want and no matter how many times you say FACTS it will change not. and if you read you will see it is you arguing and apparently with your self. do you have this problem often

[Serengeti Charters]

It is impossible for any knot to be stronger than the leader line itself...most strength it can have is 100% (odd very rare circumstance I've seen it as 101% but that was only with one specific line), which I believe is non existent although if I remember correctly properly tied palomar has 99% or something ridiculously high like that. According to this link it is over 95% but I remember a few years back reading upwards of 99% on tests done by Seaguar on their fluorocarbon leader.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...aAShGOcQltbXQw

Originally Posted by horsetrader

[/COLOR]

Well of coarse it stands to reason it break for other reasons and the reason being the knot is stronger or the line is weaker take your pick.

I think you are missing the point. The knot is NEVER stronger than the line unless the line has been compromised in some way.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think you are missing the point. The knot is NEVER stronger than the line unless the line has been compromised in some way.

Then that means that the knot will break 100% of the time and this is not the case. Take a new spool of line and tie a hook on to it with a paramar knot 50 times hook it in to a solid object and pull the line from different distances away from the hook and if you tie the hook PROPERLY it will not break at the knot 100 % of the time. You can't always take so called facts as gospel some time you must test things out yourself.

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Then that means that the knot will break 100% of the time and this is not the case. Take a new spool of line and tie a hook on to it with a paramar knot 50 times hook it in to a solid object and pull the line from different distances away from the hook and if you tie the hook PROPERLY it will not break at the knot 100 % of the time. You can't always take so called facts as gospel some time you must test things out yourself.

Have you ever looked at mono under a microscope? If you had you'd realize how silly that statement is. Fishing line is anything but uniform and anything but pristine on a new spool. But, if it was indeed pristine, they yes, the knot would break 100% of the time. Unfortunately, the line is typically compromised even on the spool.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Have you ever looked at mono under a microscope? If you had you'd realize how silly that statement is. Fishing line is anything but uniform and anything but pristine on a new spool. But, if it was indeed pristine, they yes, the knot would break 100% of the time. Unfortunately, the line is typically compromised even on the spool.

So you are saying that if you do it with braid or floro then it would always break at the knot. See I did not mention mono.So why not try and see for your self.

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

So you are saying that if you do it with braid or floro then it would always break at the knot. See I did not mention mono.So why not try and see for your self.

what your saying can be true because all manufactured line is going to have flaws..but what others are saying is ultimately true because that is just physics

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

what your saying can be true because all manufactured line is going to have flaws..but what others are saying is ultimately true because that is just physics

so because we are talking manufactured line physics does not apply......

Originally Posted by horsetrader

So you are saying that if you do it with braid or floro then it would always break at the knot. See I did not mention mono.So why not try and see for your self.

If you try it with defect free braid or floro you bet it will break at the knot every time

So now that you've totally discounted physics, perhaps you can offer up an explanation as to how tying a knot adds strength to fishing line.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

If you try it with defect free braid or floro you bet it will break at the knot every time

So now that you've totally discounted physics, perhaps you can offer up an explanation as to how tying a knot adds strength to fishing line.

I figure if you double the line to tie the knot how can it not be stronger.
the actual knot does not break it breaks before the knot.

Originally Posted by horsetrader

I figure if you double the line to tie the knot how can it not be stronger.
the actual knot does not break it breaks before the knot.

Well no one can say you don't have a theory...lol

I'll leave it that.

[Serengeti Charters]

So you're discounting physics by using physics? Ok...case closed, I think it's obvious who is right here

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by Serengeti Charters

So you're discounting physics by using physics? Ok...case closed, I think it's obvious who is right here

Physics is a natural science that involves the study of matter and its motion through spacetime, along with related concepts such as energy and force. More broadly, it is the general analysis of nature, conducted in order to understand how the universe behaves.

don't see where my explanation involves physics


but then again if we discounted physics the knot could not break??????

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Well no one can say you don't have a theory...lol

I'll leave it that.

I always have a theory thats why I never quit.......lol

[Serengeti Charters]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

I figure if you double the line to tie the knot how can it not be stronger.
the actual knot does not break it breaks before the knot.

That is physics right there...although in this case slightly flawed.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by Serengeti Charters

That is physics right there...although in this case slightly flawed.

well I don't think it falls under the true explanation of physics but thats ok

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by AK47

Great line, I concur.... which website you are getting it from? One I used to get it is out of stock now.

just noticed they have TecTan has leader material on there now too

[freeones]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Well no one can say you don't have a theory...lol

I'll leave it that.

X2

You can lead a horse(trader) to water, but you can't make him drink.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by freeones

X2

You can lead a horse(trader) to water, but you can't make him drink.

its funny when people can't change someone's opinion they must mock
definitely shows something.

[Serengeti Charters]

Welll...if the opinion is not supported by facts.

[freeones]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

its funny when people can't change someone's opinion they must mock
definitely shows something.

LOL, sure does, and you don't have to go that far back to see when it started -

Originally Posted by horsetrader

and if you read you will see it is you arguing and apparently with your self. do you have this problem often