I hate barbed hooks

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

x2, beyond silly! Totally unrelated laws really.

Now was the long gun registry not a law that had no scientific evidence that it would change anything but was pushed through because of social pressure.

Hey didn't we hear something like this before....... Hmmmmm

[AxeMan]

Lol, I still don't get it....I must be slow. Could you hotshots explain it again.

SRD makes an attempt to reduce fish mortality in province with a great deal of catch and release fishing and they are compared to a money wasting liberal gun registration law. The argument about no scientific evidence is pretty weak too. Common sense I would think, especially with all of us inexperienced nubes and greenhorns.....lol.

If we are reduced to these silly analogies in this thread; I really like the one about ramming a barbed and a barbless hook deep in your arm. At least that one will prove a point about ease of removal. Any takers?

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Lol, I still don't get it....I must be slow. Could you hotshots explain it again.

SRD makes an attempt to reduce fish mortality in province with a great deal of catch and release fishing and they are compared to a money wasting liberal gun registration law. The argument about no scientific evidence is pretty weak too. Common sense I would think, especially with all of us inexperienced nubes and greenhorns.....lol.

If we are reduced to these silly analogies in this thread; I really like the one about ramming a barbed and a barbless hook deep in your arm. At least that one will prove a point about ease of removal. Any takers?

See there's your problem the comparison is not a money thing it's a we are making this a law even though we can't prove it will make a difference thing.

I'm not saying that barbless is a bad thing but there is no proof it's has made an impact. I fish barbless now fished many many years with barbs don't see a lot of difference I don't let the fish swallow the hook. I'm sure this has not helped you to see the comparison but thats ok.... Oh and by the way the statement about ramming hooks in your arm is not an analogy it is an experiment ... An analogy is comparing the information from one subject to another...

[AxeMan]

I give up, you win. I have lost my interest in debating this anymore. Kind of like arguing for the sake of it now.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

I give up, you win. I have lost my interest in debating this anymore. Kind of like arguing for the sake of it now.

Ya my wife feels the same way alot she just gives up ....lol

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by AxeMan

Lol, I still don't get it....I must be slow. Could you hotshots explain it again.

SRD makes an attempt to reduce fish mortality in province with a great deal of catch and release fishing and they are compared to a money wasting liberal gun registration law. The argument about no scientific evidence is pretty weak too. Common sense I would think, especially with all of us inexperienced nubes and greenhorns.....lol.

If we are reduced to these silly analogies in this thread; I really like the one about ramming a barbed and a barbless hook deep in your arm. At least that one will prove a point about ease of removal. Any takers?

OK now Im convinced the end of the world is coming. Cant believe Horse and I argued the same pointlol

OK your on, you first though. Removal would be slightly easier, little doubt about that. Also, like horse said, I dont really think it is a bad thing either, just unneccessary, because it really doesnt seem to make much difference in mortallity rates.

And that everybody, is the point.

Didnt like the long gun registry, and dont like the barbless law, after all I am an Albertan

ps Horse, thanks for the interpretation.lol

[huntsfurfish]

A buddy gave me his copy of Alberta Outdoorsman November2011. There is an article in there on the barbless issue by Duane Radford. Some people on here should have a look see.



Wonder if it would be possible to post the article here? Would it Rob?

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Didnt like the long gun registry, and dont like the barbless law, after all I am an Albertan

Well I am an Albertan too and I didn't like the gun registry either but I am not sure those facts support or refute the barbless law. That is my point. That seems to be the basis to your argument. Also, Duane Radford has an opinion but so do many of us.

What I did do is read many of the peer reviewed scientific papers that have studied this issue. Some support increased fish mortality with barbed hooks, some don't, and some are mixed. I also formed an opinion based on my experience fishing barbed and barbless.

In the end, ASRD made a law on barbless only. I don't think it was based on public pressure. People can hate it or love it but using barbless hooks certainly won't negatively impact our fishery.

Huntsfurfish, you hate the law, that's fine and it is your right to do so.

I personally don't hate the law because it does't negatively impact my fishing experience at all even though I do lose the odd fish.

Thats all bud.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

OK now Im convinced the end of the world is coming. Cant believe Horse and I argued the same pointlol

OK your on, you first though. Removal would be slightly easier, little doubt about that. Also, like horse said, I dont really think it is a bad thing either, just unneccessary, because it really doesnt seem to make much difference in mortallity rates.

And that everybody, is the point.

Didnt like the long gun registry, and dont like the barbless law, after all I am an Albertan

ps Horse, thanks for the interpretation.lol

Finally you admit the only thing these things have in common are that YOU don't like them!
At least you are right about the gun registry!......1 for 2 isn't bad ya know!

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by madatter

Finally you admit the only thing these things have in common are that YOU don't like them!
At least you are right about the gun registry!......1 for 2 isn't bad ya know!

OK you ignored the red print

I still like it though that you helped to make my point, still buggin ya isnt it.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

OK you ignored the red print

I still like it though that you helped to make my point, still buggin ya isnt it.

Oh no I thought you made my point!
I realize you think...and have read on the internet(cause everything on the Internet is true) that there is no difference in mortality,even though it is easier and involves less handling of fish,less stress....
Can't possibly be better to use barbless!
Me I tend to go with past experience with both,but I guess most of us are not a master angler like yourself at removing barbed hooks.
I am humbled....

[huntsfurfish]

Lol

So you know (because of all your past experience) that more of your fish are alive now?

I am the one that should bow to you.

[pickrel pat]

how bout you both bow to me? from a stand still position i can jump over 7 feet!

[huntsfurfish]

Be an honour.

Lets all go

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

how bout you both bow to me? from a stand still position i can jump over 7 feet!

It dose not count jumping down ....lol

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

OK now Im convinced the end of the world is coming. Cant believe Horse and I argued the same pointlol

OK your on, you first though. Removal would be slightly easier, little doubt about that. Also, like horse said, I dont really think it is a bad thing either, just unneccessary, because it really doesnt seem to make much difference in mortallity rates.

And that everybody, is the point.

Didnt like the long gun registry, and dont like the barbless law, after all I am an Albertan

ps Horse, thanks for the interpretation.lol

I'm wearing my tinfoil hat lol

[ivegonefishing]

It appears that there is some evidence for anecdotal observations being the basis for a lot of the arguments that are contrary to the idea of using barbless hooks and are really of little value when it comes to scientific conclusions (in other words if Uncle Clem says barbed hooks are better in his opinion, this is a conclusion reached without scientific research; and is of little or no value). After reading some of these, and many other articles on barbless vs barbed hooks there appears to be evidence supporting the barbless hook approach as better for the survival of released fish. There are however MANY OTHER huge factors that will affect the survivability of the fish. Sticking to the barbed vs. barbless debate only; the ease of removal, minimized tissue damage, faster removal of the hook and subsequent decreased release times seem to be a few of the big factors that can contribute to a successful fish release.

Personally I like the idea of barbless hooks because of the benefits it affords the fish. It has also made me a better fisherman in terms of technique when I am trying to pull in a good 'Scrapper'. When I was living in Kelowna I had a lot of fruit trees and refused to spray them out of concern for my family's health and the affect of chemicals on the environment. So I did get some apples, peaches, cherries, etc that were damaged by bugs and fungus but I just picked them off and disposed of them, I felt it was a fair trade. I also think that I don't have to pull in every fish I hook and keep everyone of them. So the thrill of the fight and trying to outsmart my quarry is the challenge and the loss of the odd fish is a fair trade IMHOP.

I realize that my sentiments are not necessarily shared by all but just wanted to post some scientific articles on this thread.

I have included some links below if you are interested in reading some of the scientific evidence.

http://www.news-press.com/assets/pdf/A483941829.PDF

http://www.soma56.com/pdf/SOMA%20Res...lease_info.pdf

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/es/sc...outHooking.pdf


http://www.landfood.ubc.ca/animalwel.../pdfs/fish.pdf

Thanks for reading

[Greatgraywolf]

Thank-you for posting the links re: reduced mortality rates using barbless hooks. I agree that it also helps the fisherman develop more skill in actually bringing a catch in, rather than just dragging a laker or pike to the surface. Just as important, as a parent and grand-parent, is the safety issue. Kids and hooks seem to attract each other; my first experience of this was over a half-century ago when I inadvertantly walked into my fly-fishing father's back-lash and ended up with a pierced ear, and a trip to ER to have a Royal Coachman removed from an earlobe. I would never consider fishing with my kids, grand-kids, and dog, for the same reason. Barbless hooks, IMO, should be mandatory if a person is out for a C & R fishing trip. As far as using barbless when fishing for a specific species; consider perch fishing. When I get into a school of perch, I've found that having a barbless hook increases my catch; it's so much easier to pull one up through the ice, flip it off the hook, rebait and start fishing again. Same with any fish that tends to school. Anyway, just a few things to think about.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Lol

So you know (because of all your past experience) that more of your fish are alive now?

I am the one that should bow to you.

I agree. LOL

[huntsfurfish]

Lol

[Submoa_hunter]

If your catching fish with barbs to eat it its a totally different story

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Submoa_hunter

If your catching fish with barbs to eat it its a totally different story

your wrong.

[in_search_of_a_monster]

I have fished Ontario almost my whole life but was born in Alberta,I have seen people mangle mouths and gills apart especially on big muskie and pike as many parts of Ontario have no restrictions on barbed hooks.It is no question in my mind that barbless hooks improve mortality rates and just make handling and removing hooks easier, its common sense, you would know if you had gotten used to fishing barbed and then to switch to barbless as i have done beacause i just moved back to Alberta.It makes it more interesting and a little more of a challenge just keep the pressure and youll keep those hooks deep enough with a decent hook set and go with the strongest line possible for your application and species youre fishing,thats my philosophy take it or leave it good luck fellas !

[Fish-killer]

Barb-less is hooks is the best way to go. Well here is what I think,

I think barbed hooks should be aloud on NON-Baited LURES, I.E Rapalas, Jigs and spoons and so on.

When it comes to baited jigs or baited hooks... They should be BARB-LESS because the fish hit and often time will swallow the hook and then its a mess to UN-hook a barbed hook from the throat of the fish. Barb-less its easy to UN hook.
Also helping the fish live better!

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

I fish barbless 99% of the time for several reasons and I am sure one of them is that I feel better about catch and release fishing using barbless, regardless of whether there is a current study that shows statistically significant evidence that barbless results in less mortality. I guess my question is why fish barbless? If it is a matter of loosing fish, it should only take a few lost fish to help understand that your technique needs improving. So again, why fish barbed in the first place?

nice.

i learned with the barb and ive caught alot of fish. no one ever seemed to care if they were hurting the fish. now that i fish barbless, i find its a little more sporting and gives a better challenge. you still get the same amount of hits so baited or not, as the barb only counts when the fish is on. now that im barbless i have alot less frustration trying to pull a hook out of the fish, the net, your clothes, etc. its better all around.

i also will pull a barbless j hook out of a pickerel's throat and cause much less damage.

Originally Posted by catnthehat

if you look back i said that I could care less about the law and if it is a bad law or a good one, , I choose to use barbless hooks, and yes, it really should be up to the individual.


Personally I think there are far more reasons for fish mortality.
Cat

maybe fish licenses should be up to the individual too. or how about motors on motorless lakes. or tossing your trash out the window. rules are in place for a reason. if they are wrong band together and have them tossed out.

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Could someone tell me why a province would go barbless and still allow the use of bait?



Can the guys on here defending the use of barbless(no significant difference in mortality rates) explain how they can justify using bait when there is a significant difference in mortality rates with it use.



Hypocritical!
to say the least.

bit hard to catch sturgeon without it (some fish require bait to catch)

Originally Posted by in_search_of_a_monster

I have fished Ontario almost my whole life but was born in Alberta,I have seen people mangle mouths and gills apart especially on big muskie and pike as many parts of Ontario have no restrictions on barbed hooks.It is no question in my mind that barbless hooks improve mortality rates and just make handling and removing hooks easier, its common sense, you would know if you had gotten used to fishing barbed and then to switch to barbless as i have done beacause i just moved back to Alberta.It makes it more interesting and a little more of a challenge just keep the pressure and youll keep those hooks deep enough with a decent hook set and go with the strongest line possible [/COLOR]for your application and species youre fishing,thats my philosophy take it or leave it good luck fellas !

when i tried the braid i lost alot of pike as i have no spring effect to hold that hook in there. with mono or fluoro you can have 2 or 3 feet of stretch to create a spring and hold the hook in. with no stretch the heavy braids can create a violent hookset. not against braid but your line should match your rods, stiffer and mono, softer and braid.

dont fish 2lb walleye with your medium heavy rod set with 30lb braid, its not fun, it rips the lips off the fish and you loose them alot due to lack of spring effect.

this isnt meant for anyone in particular its just knowledge to try and educate the newbies when they are picking up their first rod and reel and hear that 30 lb braid will catch everything from perch right up to muskie.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by pelada trochu

maybe fish licenses should be up to the individual too. or how about motors on motorless lakes. or tossing your trash out the window. rules are in place for a reason. if they are wrong band together and have them tossed out.

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[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!