alberta beef producers proposing pay to play

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

You have no idea what is involved in your dream.. Have you looked into the liability insurance of inviting and charging access for said species ? You are looking at a commercial policy which involves weapons, not many providers for this and the costs will hurt the wallet.

Not to mention, how can you ensure quality of the species to entice the deep pockets in our passion ? You can't unless you go complete game farming which again is HUGE dollars and only attracts a very small percent.

Charging for access is a terrible idea period, will limit our future generations and create a monopoly for only the elite group.

So why is outfitting such a success everywhere else.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by expmler

I don't claim to own the wildlife, only the land they and you want to walk on. How about instead of selling it I rent it out to hunters.

A bed and breakfast is a fine idea to solve your first world problems

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by Y2K

Because some on here own land in affected area.

Yes alot of us do, most don't have selfish concepts about how to deal with it.

Want less animals on your land, lets fight for more tags in certain areas not paid access. One size fits all doesn't work in land the size of ab. North and south are way different from each other. Up north we want more elk, down south people want more deer. We can't change nature, we can't even seem to manage it. We as a group will self destruct hunting as we know it...and complain like hell afterwards

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Well said Grizz. It seems to me tha wildlife was there first now landowners decide they should have exclusive use of the land and to heck with the environment and animals. It seems no matter how fairly this country was set up for everyone, slowly the "rich" get more and more profit from everything they touch.

Yes the wildlife was there first, but now it seems there is interest in increasing numbers so hunters will have more opportunity. It seems that the landowner is expected to pick up the tab for this increased opportunity for many who have no respect for the landowner.

I do not own land where there is enough game to harvest, but I feel for the landowner that does. It seems that a landowner should never say no but should also keep quiet when the government is running a business on their land.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Originally Posted by crownb

This comment rubs me the wrong way, these animals are the crowns animals, the crowns animals are causing loss, I am supposed to fold up a family farm that has been around for over 90 years because we have had some warm favourable winters and the game populations have exploded.

No I don't expect you to fold up. I expect you to understand that every year isn't a stellar year for profits and many things can have effects on your bottom line, just like every other business out there. It's all part of the game of makin money in a business. I don't want to see the family farm fold at all. This is the last thing I want to see but I hear people in different types of business complain all the time but they aren't complaining in the good times when they are making good dollars.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

A bed and breakfast is a fine idea to solve your first world problems

This whole subject is a first world problem, nobody is going to starve if they can't hunt.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by expmler

So why is outfitting such a success everywhere else.

First you will need to purchase the allocations in the respective area, this will cost you some coin. Now, you will need to advertise to attract clients and then provide responsible guides to respective client.. Probably have to shuttle them too and from an airport and hold their hands while they are here.. Now the easy part, find them a class of the species they want to ensure your guides receive a happy tip .

Easy ? Not as easy as one would think, nor as lucrative either.

But hey, your onto something, go and buy out an outfitting company and fill your boots and let us know how successful you are

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So the idea is to charge the people that can help to reduce crop damage, to help pay for crop damage? That doesn't make a lot of sense now, does it?

Using that reasoning, if my house catches fire, I should charge the firefighters for trying to put it out.

I think that landowners should be compensated in some way because damage has been caused as a result the numbers of game have being increased to provide more hunting activity.

The firefighter thing does not work for me! Limited hunting where the game is during hunting season does little to ease the results of damage caused by a hungry herd in an areas that is invaded after hunting season.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

No I don't expect you to fold up. I expect you to understand that every year isn't a stellar year for profits and many things can have effects on your bottom line, just like every other business out there. It's all part of the game of makin money in a business. I don't want to see the family farm fold at all. This is the last thing I want to see but I hear people in different types of business complain all the time but they aren't complaining in the good times when they are making good dollars.

Believe me as farmers we understand, are you telling me that the family farms are in good times right now and we are complaining?

[covey ridge]

I think that the motivation for some of these threads is just to obtain forced permission from landowners.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

I don't know how you run your farm. Farmers that run it like a business aren't hurting. Farmers that run it poorly are always hurting. Most of my coworkers are farmers and are doing well even though they say otherwise but they are vacationing non stop.

I work in the land rec business and I work with farmers about 70% of my business time. I do everything I can for them when we are dealing with them. Give them every opportunity to make money during a project. I give them free help every time we come out. Help that would translate into big dollars. I don't have to but I do. I have also been booted off property while hunting that I have had years of permission on. Why? Because a new outfitter is on there. I wonder how he gets sole permission on there?

You want to have people pay to shoot animals on your land, fine. Get an outfitters license and go right ahead. Pure profits. Just like every other business.

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by expmler

This whole subject is a first world problem, nobody is going to starve if they can't hunt.

Another post showing you have zero interest in anything but money

[norwestalta]

I'm not interested in getting paid to let people hunt on my land but if I were it should be at my own prerogative. As a landowner on land that I pay for I should not be dictated onabout what I can do and what I can't.
One thing that I can foresee happening with this pay to play idea is that land prices could go up which will cut out the smaller operations that may want to expand.

[crownb]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

I don't know how you run your farm. Farmers that run it like a business aren't hurting. Farmers that run it poorly are always hurting. Most of my coworkers are farmers and are doing well even though they say otherwise but they are vacationing non stop.

I work in the land rec business and I work with farmers about 70% of my business time. I do everything I can for them when we are dealing with them. Give them every opportunity to make money during a project. I give them free help every time we come out. Help that would translate into big dollars. I don't have to but I do. I have also been booted off property while hunting that I have had years of permission on. Why? Because a new outfitter is on there. I wonder how he gets sole permission on there?

You want to have people pay to shoot animals on your land, fine. Get an outfitters license and go right ahead. Pure profits. Just like every other business.

You just said farmers that run their farms like a business arnt hurting, really, all farms are a business unless you are hobby joe who raises a couple of pets. I don't understand what you mean, my old man has run the family farm since he was 16, I have helped run in now for nearly 20 years, we have never scraped the bottom of the bucket so hard as we have this year to make it through. Go have a sit down in a local coffe shop in a farming community and tell the farmers there that things are great, and if they are not great try to run your farm like a business and you will succeed, you might not make it out alive.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Yes let's make it a free for all. I bet that argument would change once another business moves next door and does what ever they want too. Nothing wrong with big oil coming in and doing whatever pleases them, correct?

[expmler]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

I don't know how you run your farm. Farmers that run it like a business aren't hurting. Farmers that run it poorly are always hurting. Most of my coworkers are farmers and are doing well even though they say otherwise but they are vacationing non stop.

I work in the land rec business and I work with farmers about 70% of my business time. I do everything I can for them when we are dealing with them. Give them every opportunity to make money during a project. I give them free help every time we come out. Help that would translate into big dollars. I don't have to but I do. I have also been booted off property while hunting that I have had years of permission on. Why? Because a new outfitter is on there. I wonder how he gets sole permission on there?

You want to have people pay to shoot animals on your land, fine. Get an outfitters license and go right ahead. Pure profits. Just like every other business.

Isn't maximizing profits part of running a business. There are many ways for a farmer to profit off of his land. He should not be limited to just one.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

Yes let's make it a free for all. I bet that argument would change once another business moves next door and does what ever they want too. Nothing wrong with big oil coming in and doing whatever pleases them, correct?

Why not if the environmental concerns are met. Do you believe some one from the city can dictate what I do? What my neighbor does at his place is upto him.

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I'm not interested in getting paid to let people hunt on my land but if I were it should be at my own prerogative. As a landowner on land that I pay for I should not be dictated onabout what I can do and what I can't.
One thing that I can foresee happening with this pay to play idea is that land prices could go up which will cut out the smaller operations that may want to expand.

The ideological debate is you really getting paid to allow harvesting of something that is all of ours. No one is interested in paying to park on a farm they are paying to hunt on it, that's what's wrong, and what it could start would have the opposite effect then what people want.

Making hunting unaffordable to more people will make numbers grow,not shrink. Even alot of Americans that come here do so for the actual hunt not a game farm they have that at home, hence even less money into payment programs and less harvested

[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

I thought this was a discussion forum, but it seems when someone brings a different view to the discussion, that is not acceptable.

Like I said in a previous post, I put up a proposal asked for input and got none. So it's obvious you guys are happy with your situation, so stay dug in.

Actually, if it were your OP, I would consider your request to keep it on track, however Pheasantboy hasn't complained on the direction of his thread.

So back to it; your proposal is wrong, as damage control is being used from the coffers of Hunting & Fishing licences period, and by the sounds of it enough to clean the pot that hunters & fishers/ACA owe back pay for 2013 which will come from 2014 hunting & Fishing Licences. No wonder we can't afford to have a decent walleye management program in Alberta, our fee's are being syphoned off by farmers because of those destructive trout eating all their barley.

Your losses should be paid through agriculture and beef production fees or whatever fed/prov department takes care of you. $388 million upgrade in funding this year alone, so not sure why Hunt/Fish licences take on the burden of crop damage. Obviously the fact that I pay into your damages already and you still want more from hunters & fisherman doesn't equate. We pay licence fees to either harvest or recreate wildlife, it doesn't mean that we own it as nor do you.

How about you take out the faux need for damage control and be straight up and say "I want to charge you to hunt on my land!", it would be honest.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Some people are very poor in business. Some are very good. I have my own company vehicle, I run it for five years to make it work for me before purchasing a new one. My friend that farms is running a new one every two years. Obviously he is doing well to be able to afford that. He also is gone on vacation a few times a year. This year he has already gone to Switzerland, some place in Africa, and now he is in Mexico. I don't understand how he does it hurting so bad financially?

I have heard of starving farmer syndrome, I just have never seen it.

Like I said, if you can't make it, your either doing something wrong or time to pack it in.

As for trying to make extra money of the crowns animals, I am not for it.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Why not if the environmental concerns are met. Do you believe some one from the city can dictate what I do? What my neighbor does at his place is upto him.

Hell with the environmental or wildlife concerns. We are talking pure profit here. Do whatever it takes to get the money in your pocket. Let your neighbor do the same. Hopefully you will have the bigger and better food plot than your neighbor so I can shoot the crown resource animal on your land and not his.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

Some people are very poor in business. Some are very good. I have my own company vehicle, I run it for five years to make it work for me before purchasing a new one. My friend that farms is running a new one every two years. Obviously he is doing well to be able to afford that. He also is gone on vacation a few times a year. This year he has already gone to Switzerland, some place in Africa, and now he is in Mexico. I don't understand how he does it hurting so bad financially?

I have heard of starving farmer syndrome, I just have never seen it.

Like I said, if you can't make it, your either doing something wrong or time to pack it in.

As for trying to make extra money of the crowns animals, I am not for it.

No to a jerk or be rude but could you start another thread on how to make farming a profitable and lucrative business? A lot of us would be interested in more farm income.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by crownb

Now you are grasping, as far as fishing license revenue I am sure most producer and people knew nothing about this, I am a cattle producer and I have never received a cheque entitled fishing license revenue!!!

This is where I found the article, which is a cattle producers website, and a cut-out from the article;

http://www.producer.com/2013/11/livi...h-a-price-tag/

The province’s compensation payments are issued through the ACA using funds from hunting and fishing licences.


Bectell speculated that the ACA delayed payments to make a point with government that hunters and anglers should not be footing the entire bill for compensation.


“I just don’t think that we need to be the guys that get hit on the head when the ACA is trying to make a political point,” he said.


Zimmerling said the group ran out of money in its compensation fund last year so it delayed payments to ranchers until its new budget year.


He said the federal government pays 60 percent of predator compensation costs in British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, and the ACA has been lobbying for the same federal contribution in Alberta.


“Literally, as of today, I got a phone call telling me that it looks like … the federal government will be paying 60 percent, so it shouldn’t be an issue going forward,” he said Oct. 29.


[Gust]

Originally Posted by expmler

You forget supply and demand. If Canadian farmers hold their products out of the market that causes a shortage in supply making the price rise.

Just like when they get a frost in Florida and they lose their orange crop, price of orange juice goes up.

Kinda like Idle No More?

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

Hell with the environmental or wildlife concerns. We are talking pure profit here. Do whatever it takes to get the money in your pocket. Let your neighbor do the same. Hopefully you will have the bigger and better food plot than your neighbor so I can shoot the crown resource animal on your land and not his.

Maybe you don't care about the environment. That is up to you many of us do. Back to the question. Do you believe that I should be dictated to on what I do with my land? You can be honest here.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

No to a jerk or be rude but could you start another thread on how to make farming a profitable and lucrative business? A lot of us would be interested in more farm income.

I probably could but I can be honest and say I don't understand all the "ins and outs" of the business. I am honest about that. However I can honestly say I have seen things done on the family farm and shake my head about the stupidity and waste of money. No forward or progressive thinking costs money, just like in most business.

On another note, you are going to bait the elk over there with sugar beets or something sweet this year? The guy next door isn't planning on doing that and I like my animals finished off properly so if I am going to give my money to someone, they better have a better product.

[Gust]

Originally Posted by bison

If you're a hunter i hope you're not that ignorant.

As for taxes i don't know,.i don't lease.

You originally stated that he might hold lease land,, my statement on fencing it was part sarcasm and being facetious, but that's ok if you didn't understand.

[Albertacoyotecaller]

I do care about the environment. That's why I work to restore what some business have screwed up on the family farmers land. I see the impact of people doing whatever they want.

I am about as much as a libertarian as they get. But I do understand that we have laws in this country regarding crown assets which wildlife is one. I also understand that most of the time the crown doesn't manage these assets properly. That imbalance has an effect on lots of things such as the insurance companies, farmers, etc.

Allowing people to do whatever they want on their land will come at a detrimental cost to many people. We need some balance so it works for everyone.

[expmler]

Originally Posted by bhguy

Another post showing you have zero interest in anything but money

So you missed the post where I said I allow hunters on my land from Sept 1st to Dec 31st. Or did you choose to ignore that to hurl insults.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Albertacoyotecaller

I probably could but I can be honest and say I don't understand all the "ins and outs" of the business. I am honest about that. However I can honestly say I have seen things done on the family farm and shake my head about the stupidity and waste of money. No forward or progressive thinking costs money, just like in most business.

On another note, you are going to bait the elk over there with sugar beets or something sweet this year? The guy next door isn't planning on doing that and I like my animals finished off properly so if I am going to give my money to someone, they better have a better product.

Thanks. As far as me or neighbor baiting the animals. That ain't true because baiting is illegal but you are free to pay or not pay whoever you'd like. That is beyond my control but I can deny or grant permission on my land.