Student Activsm vs US Gun Legislation

[ChickakooKookoo]

Originally Posted by Rockman

I think it's a bit of both. Of course there are at least somewhat manipulating adults encouraging and using these kids, and of course the kids can think for themselves and have just been through something traumatic and want it to never happen again. It's definitely borderline manipulative to be shoving them on every stage within days and weeks of this event, at their age, and calling for change based on emotion, not reason. Nothing good will come of it.



IMHO and all that.

From what I've read these kids are really driving the process themselves. They've got a war room setup in one of the parents living room and they're strategizing action plans and whatnot. Was a pretty interesting read how they're using social media so effectively because it's so natural to them. Pretty inspiring I thought.


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[Newview01]

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

From what I've read these kids are really driving the process themselves. They've got a war room setup in one of the parents living room and they're strategizing action plans and whatnot. Was a pretty interesting read how they're using social media so effectively because it's so natural to them. Pretty inspiring I thought.


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Except it is not so inspiring when they are basing their argument on misinformation and ineffective policies.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I think we will see over the next couple of months if student anger morphs into a “movement” ... and it could happen! They are a “connected” lot, job prospects are questionable, not on board with “the man”, and might have a tough time resisting a call for “Friday off at the Legislature”. Going to get interesting.

I tend to agree with the idea of a student movement getting going. These kids are connected through social media. They know how to use it to get what they want. What they want in many cases ignores history as they want to write their own. Even if they could make some small changes the effort would be worth it.

I do not see this going to the Australian model that Gabby Gifford's movement pushes for. Getting tighter controls for purchasing and better data sharing would be big on the plus side.



I am surprised that they are not going after the FBI and the police force in their role in this incident. Intervention by either or both and this would not have happened.

Going back to the 60's the movement really came from draft age kids, pushed forward by the first war that could be seen on TV in real time (media manipulation - seem familiar) and the one big wild card that blew the lid off - the Pentagon papers. When the people found out they had been lied to the movement really expanded.

The one area that Canada could be impacted in is hand guns. Get rid of the AR-15 and people think the problem is solved - nope. One of the more serious campus shooting was carried out with a fellow using hand guns. So I can see people being uneasy in saying sacrifice one type of gun then what is next.

It might be impossible in the US to get rid of handguns but if they start a movement down there and put pressure on hand gun ownership, our current bright lights in Ottawa might think we will show them the way and with a stroke of the pen ours are gone.

[colroggal]

What was it that gave Americans the freedom of speech, the freedom of assembly - life, liberty and all that? Oh ya, guns.

It might be inconvenient to point out that the very thing they are attacking was and is the proverbial big stick that gives them the right to attack it.

Colin

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by colroggal

What was it that gave Americans the freedom of speech, the freedom of assembly - life, liberty and all that? Oh ya, guns.

It might be inconvenient to point out that the very thing they are attacking was and is the proverbial big stick that gives them the right to attack it.

Colin

Exactly my point as well.

[elkhunter11]

The one area that Canada could be impacted in is hand guns. Get rid of the AR-15 and people think the problem is solved - nope. One of the more serious campus shooting was carried out with a fellow using hand guns. So I can see people being uneasy in saying sacrifice one type of gun then what is next.

And the ironic thing, is that the AR-15 hasn't been the firearm of choice for any of the massacres in Canada. Even before it was restricted, and when myself and many other people carried them around with 20 and 30 round magazines, there were no mass shootings involving the AR-15.

[2 Tollers]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And the ironic thing, is that the AR-15 hasn't been the firearm of choice for any of the massacres in Canada. Even before it was restricted, and when myself and many other people carried them around with 20 and 30 round magazines, there were no mass shootings involving the AR-15.

Remember after 911 the US got serious on domestic terrorists and started checking various methods. What came up -- truck driving schools, fuel trucks and names of people that should not be driving trucks of that type. It was not the truck or the planes fault. Through a focused effort they found these people and plugged the holes.

To me they have to get on the data and start watching the social media posts. Get serious on catching / restricting people before they do this and also get the press to back off on the sensationalizing of the people that have committed these heinous acts. Do not mention their names. Do not post their pictures. Do not give a band stand to those seeking attention in the sickest of ways.

[hilt134]

Personally it's a load of trash. I'm 20 and guess what I good things up all the time. Other teenage kids who have just undergone a tradgedy are not exactly a good source for political policy. They are certainly a concerned party and are free to voice their ideas. However in no way are they experts. I'd hate to see them rally for somthing that hoops them later.

[2 Tollers]

The other part of this is to remember what was going on down in the US prior to this incident. Not saying this is true but this is a good diversion to take heat off what was becoming a focus point on FBI performance at the top and select Democrats and point another pressure point on the president. I am not a Trump fan but watching the politics of deflection and diversion that occurs in the US has been interesting. Media picks up on this as the hot story of the day and drops the others.

[tri777]

Sorry, don't buy anything on this activism thing, just more B.S..
Where was this extreme outrage during the Obama times.

[260 Rem]

So tonite Rubio said he was ready to look at magazine capacity limits ... might never have said that without pressure from students?

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by hilt134

Personally it's a load of trash. I'm 20 and guess what I good things up all the time. Other teenage kids who have just undergone a tradgedy are not exactly a good source for political policy. They are certainly a concerned party and are free to voice their ideas. However in no way are they experts. I'd hate to see them rally for somthing that hoops them later.

Well at least they can spell properly, based on their tweets.

I'm 100% in support of their efforts.

[2 Tollers]

X2. Agreed. Changes and a shake up are needed. Even if there are baby steps that would be good

[260 Rem]

Mr Rubio also warmed to to the idea of raising age limit to purchase.

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by ChickakooKookoo

From what I've read these kids are really driving the process themselves. They've got a war room setup in one of the parents living room and they're strategizing action plans and whatnot. Was a pretty interesting read how they're using social media so effectively because it's so natural to them. Pretty inspiring I thought.


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Interesting. I hadn't seen that. It still doesn't mean it was their idea, though it could have been, nor that the information they're basing this on, if any, is sound and not being fed by those with their own agenda for full bans.

In any case, the problem as I see it is that nothing actually effective will be done. Either nothing at all will be done, or some stupid policy will be signed in that does little or nothing to prevent gun violence, and the cycle goes on. I'm against government involvement only because they manage to f**# it up every time. If they could put in actual common sense laws that would follow up on threats, properly and wisely use and circulate to the right authorities all of the information gathered on potentially dangerous individuals, that I would support.

An AR-15 or handgun ban will never happen, not outright. If anything they'll ban bumpstocks, or have mag size limits, or delayed buying, etc. Won't change much IMO.

[270person]

Originally Posted by sns2

I am proud of those kids for doing something they believe in. Last time I checked, Freedom of Assembly was still a cornerstone of democratic society. Some of you angry buggers - note I don't say old - are so out of touch with reality when it comes to young people that it is not even funny. They are every bit as bright, hardworking, and talented as when you were in school. Don't give your generation whenever that was more credit than it deserves, and don't devalue this one.

FWIW, I think Canada has struck a good balance of gun legislation. They could learn much from us.

Too much money at stake down there , so I don't see anything changing. Money rules above all, and I mean all, in that country.

Please stop sns. You're making far too much sense.

[Newview01]

CNN last night, business as usual.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27437...ign=benshapiro

A student in the ROTC program at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, claims that CNN's town hall event on the school shooting was scripted and that they censored him from asking questions that he had and, instead, insisted that he ask the questions that they gave him.
Colton Haab, who acted heroically during the shooting by covering students with Kevlar, refused to go to the town hall hosted by Jake Tapper after the far-left network censored him.
"I expected to be able to ask my questions and give my opinion on my questions," Haab told WPLG-TV.

[Weedy1]

Apparently some kids in Alberta are networking and gearing up to join in these events:

The National School Walkout, planned by Women’s March organizers, will be on March 14 at 10 am in each time zone. It calls for students, faculty, parents, and others to walk out of school for 17 minutes — one minute for each person who was killed in the Florida school shooting.

The March for Our Lives is scheduled for March 24. The details are thin right now, but students and activists plan to march on Washington, DC, and other US cities.

From: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...orida-shooting

[rem338win]

As far as the kids go, i appreciate what they went through and it's awful. I want them to create a purpose that will effect healing for all of them. There is strength in that.

The issue is they are barking up the wrong tree. They're taking a stand based on propaganda the have been spoon fed and they arent using logic or reason. This doesn't surprise me given the state of American (and Canadian) schools today where logic and reason take a sideline to their instructed political views.

This isn't a gun issue. Again, it's a mental health issue and a utter breakdown in the bureaucracies that are mandated to protect them. Going after the gun rights advocates in this case is as far left field as it can go.

I would guarantee that if these young people were calling their school board, health authorities and law enforcement to task this wouldn't get near the media play.

And if you think we have a "well balanced" grasp on gun laws and control in Canada then you're ignorant or daft.

You need to manage offenders and threats. Not items. Canada doesn't do any of this well. Our gun violence is climbing, and the manipulation of statistics to state otherwise is appalling.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Newview01

CNN last night, business as usual.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27437...ign=benshapiro

That clearly demonstrates that the students are being manuipulated by CNN , in order for CNN to pursue their agenda.

As far as the kids go, i appreciate what they went through and it's awful. I want them to create a purpose that will effect healing for all of them. There is strength in that.

The issue is they are barking up the wrong tree. They're taking a stand based on propaganda the have been spoon fed and they arent using logic or reason. This doesn't surprise me given the state of American (and Canadian) schools today where logic and reason take a sideline to their instructed political views.

This isn't a gun issue. Again, it's a mental health issue and a utter breakdown in the bureaucracies that are mandated to protect them. Going after the gun rights advocates in this case is as far left field as it can go.

I would guarantee that if these young people were calling their school board, health authorities and law enforcement to task this wouldn't get near the media play.

And if you think we have a "well balanced" grasp on gun laws and control in Canada then you're ignorant or daft.

You need to manage offenders and threats. Not items. Canada doesn't do any of this well. Our gun violence is climbing, and the manipulation of statistics to state otherwise is appalling.
02-22-2018 07:06 AM

Exactly, the students are acting on emotion, and as such are not focusing on the real issue, as is very common when emotion is the driving force.

[Newview01]

And this is what I call common sense...

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...rry-in-schools

President Trump floated the idea of arming teachers in an effort to prevent future school shootings during a listening session on school shootings at the White House on Wednesday.
"If you had a teacher who was adept at firearms, they could very well end the attack very quickly, and the good thing about a suggestion like that — and we're going to be looking at it very strongly, and I think a lot of people are going to be opposed to it. I think a lot of people are going to like it. But the good thing is you're going to have a lot of [armed] people with that," the president said.
He said the "coach," presumably meaning athletic director Chris Hixon, who was killed during the Florida shooting last week, "saved a lot of lives" but could have saved more if he had a gun.
"He wouldn't have had to run, he would have shot, and that would have been the end of it," he said, adding that he only supported concealed carry for people "adept" with guns.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

That clearly demonstrates that the students are being manuipulated by CNN , in order for CNN to pursue their agenda.



Exactly, the students are acting on emotion, and as such are not focusing on the real issue, as is very common when emotion is the driving force.

It's entirely possible possible they're being emotional. They've watched nothing being done in that country since Columbine to change anything. Some of the leaders were covered in their friends blood because this kid bought a gun walked into the school and opened fire.

They're sick of the lack of action and people's attachment to a object over a life.

Yes I'm aware of all the tired retoric of its a mental issue. Guns don't walk around shooting people. We've heard it all. So have they. They just don't want to see another mass shooting happen.

Good for them. Shame on anyone who attacks them for it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by fitzy

It's entirely possible possible they're being emotional. They've watched nothing being done in that country since Columbine to change anything. Some of the leaders were covered in their friends blood because this kid bought a gun walked into the school and opened fire.

They're sick of the lack of action and people's attachment to a object over a life.

Yes I'm aware of all the tired retoric of its a mental issue. Guns don't walk around shooting people. We've heard it all. So have they. They just don't want to see another mass shooting happen.

Good for them. Shame on anyone who attacks them for it.

These students aren't unique in wanting to prevent another massacre like this, none of us want to see that happen again. The simple fact is that the students are acting solely on emotion, and feel good legislation, is not going to prevent incdents like this. As far as firearms are concerned, you cant draft effective firearms legislation with little to no actual knowledge of firearms, which is where these students are badly lacking. Our badly flawed Canadian firearms classification system, is a prime example of what happens when people classify firearms based on emotion or appearance.

[260 Rem]

President Trump ready to push for more comprehensive background checks, raise purchase age to 21, end sale of bump stocks, and CC for teachers ... needle seems to moving.

[Supergrit]

Restricting what you can makes difference moving the age to 21 kind of pointless. At 18 you can join the military and shoot guns but you can’t legally buy one when he off duty.

[Newellknik]

The next president might step in but not the Donald .
The NRA will not be defeated ?
These kids protesting is cute like a dog riding a bike but
serves no real purpose .
what amazes me is that any laws that there are , are not
even close to being enforced ..
Our job is to continue to reinforce the difference between
total gun mental cases and the sportsmen hunting community .
And stay on our socialist governments to make sure they
know the difference .

[elkdump]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

President Trump ready to push for more comprehensive background checks, raise purchase age to 21, end sale of bump stocks, and CC for teachers ... needle seems to moving.

That concept then ,,,,

BY Raising the drinking/alcohol purchase age restriction to 21 years of age would also solve the carnage problem of about 40,000 people killed every year in the US by drunk drivers ?? wtf

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

President Trump ready to push for more comprehensive background checks, raise purchase age to 21, end sale of bump stocks, and CC for teachers ... needle seems to moving.

I see bump stocks as an attempt to simulate fully automatic fire, so I have no issues with treating bump stocks like fully automatic firearms. Background checks may help, hopefully it works better than here in Canada, where even firearms prohibitions don't seem to be effective at preventing people from using firearms to commit crimes. As to raising the age limit, if a person is deemed to be responsible enough to vote and join the military at 18, I don't see the age limit being of much benefit. As to arming teachers, as long as they have training to ensure that they are competent with a firearm, I am all for it. But I doubt that these people will be at all satisfied without outright bans on certain firearms.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Hard to argue with this Father.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/0...curity-sot.cnn

LC

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by elkdump

That concept then ,,,,

BY Raising the drinking/alcohol purchase age restriction to 21 years of age would also solve the carnage problem of about 40,000 people killed every year in the US by drunk drivers ?? wtf

Let’s not pivot to another issue ... the discussion is about guns, not alcohol.