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  #31  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:23 PM
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Rhino81 Rhino81 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by daveyn View Post
hahaha!!! It couldn’t get any blacker! So yeah, fortunately this time the grass is very much greener.
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  #32  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:27 PM
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Ken07AOVette Ken07AOVette is offline
 
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Any Albertan who has worked hard for what the east has will strongly disagree with you I assure you of this
Sorry whitetail nailed it. He is bang on.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #33  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:29 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I sincerely don't mean my comments to sound rude to other contributors on a personal level ..... so apologies if this comes off as rude ... it not my intent .........

I am really surprised so many people think we have it so bad here, that we should leave confederation and join the US.

I don't like the Carbon Tax, nor do I like Trudeau, but these are, quite frankly, minor issues compared to having you go broke if you get sick as a US citizen.

What happens when your insurance coverage reaches it's lifetime max, if you even have any coverage to begin with, runs out and you have to re-mortgage your home and leverage all the assets you have worked for all your life BEFORE you get free health care for many types of critical care illness treatments.

Do most people even understand how this actually works in the US? Do they understand that you are not afforded governmental coverage if you have money in the bank or equity in your home or other assets you have to sell off before you are subsidized for many types of critical care?

This one issue alone should deter all of us from even thinking that's a good idea let alone other issues/detractors living as a part of the US would bring to us.

Hey the dollar is stronger .......... cool ......... do you think the minute you join the US, the new government will trade you one golden US dollar for every Canadian dollar in your piggy bank? ....... and now you are rich with buying power?

Ah yeah real estate .......... yup, overnight do you think your home and assets grow in value by 30%? .......... really?

I find so many people caught up in the "romantic notion" of "independence or joining the US" and I have yet to hear one single reasonable argument, that isn't based on superficial ignorance.

I have lived, been to school, worked, raised 2 kids here and in the US - I can assure you, from first hand experience, it's not the land of milk and honey, nor are those streets paved with gold either.

Canada is still the greatest country in the world.

Its our country, Its our home and we should all be proud of it.

If the US is so awesome, and so much better, you are welcome to move .......... nobody is stopping you ......... why are you still here?
Well said!
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  #34  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:46 PM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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There is definitely some real fearful assumptions but there has been no negotiation or set of terms put into place when it comes to joining the US or even separation from Canada. Without this all assumptions positive or negative are nothing but speculation

It is completely possible that the US would see value in what Alberta could provide to the US and negotiate a deal that would be beneficial to both parties. It is also possible the US would have little interest and would only be will to come to agreement that would exploit Alberta. Reality is without talks no one has a clue what is possible.

As for speculation about medical, taxation, and other claims regarding the US. 3 years ago a friend moved to LA and she raves about how much lower her cost of living is. She is actually impressed with the medical system and would rather pay the insurance fees vs be taxed for Canada’s ”free medical”. According to her Canadians are paying more through taxation to receive poor quality medical services in comparison to the US system. Personally I have been surprised on her experience especially hearing living cost in LA of all places being cheaper. At the minimum it makes me question the myths about the US we hear in Canada

I am not saying joining the US is a good idea but it also may not be as bad as some assume either. People who are both in support or against the idea are definitely letting their imagination run wild

Way too much unknown to be for or against joining the US but I would consider it if the agreement was good
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  #35  
Old 12-08-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
There is definitely some real fearful assumptions but there has been no negotiation or set of terms put into place when it comes to joining the US or even separation from Canada. Without this all assumptions positive or negative are nothing but speculation

It is completely possible that the US would see value in what Alberta could provide to the US and negotiate a deal that would be beneficial to both parties. It is also possible the US would have little interest and would only be will to come to agreement that would exploit Alberta. Reality is without talks no one has a clue what is possible.

As for speculation about medical, taxation, and other claims regarding the US. 3 years ago a friend moved to LA and she raves about how much lower her cost of living is. She is actually impressed with the medical system and would rather pay the insurance fees vs be taxed for Canada’s ”free medical”. According to her Canadians are paying more through taxation to receive poor quality medical services in comparison to the US system. Personally I have been surprised on her experience especially hearing living cost in LA of all places being cheaper. At the minimum it makes me question the myths about the US we hear in Canada

I am not saying joining the US is a good idea but it also may not be as bad as some assume either. People who are both in support or against the idea are definitely letting their imagination run wild

Way too much unknown to be for or against joining the US but I would consider it if the agreement was good
You hit that bang on! Well said! I’ve had the pleasure of hunting with countless Americans from many different states over the past 15 years and ever one of them would never trade there health care system for ours. It’s inexpensive and top notch. They pay less taxes and have no complaints. I’m duel citizen and my folks live in the states and trust me when I say this from having discussed this thoroughly with many friends and family living in the states, they feel very sorry for us albertans. It’s sad but true. They have it way better than we do by a country mile. As long as the liberal government is calling the shots we may as well get used to it unfortunately unless changes are made!
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  #36  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:12 PM
liar liar is offline
 
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stats dont lie . right now canada is one of the best place to be in the world . what worries me is where are we going ? what will be left for my grandchildren ? as asked in another post " what is trudeau's end game ?" the radical changes/decisions we have seen in the last few years lead me to believe that in ten years the stats will not look so favorably on whats left of canada . if/when alberta becomes a have not province how much money can we expect to flow back from the rest of canada ? our government gave a convicted terrorist $10 mm of my tax money in such a way that the widow of the soldier he killed could not access it . is that our future ? the same terrorist was given a standing ovation when he showed up on a talk show out east . this same government is now talking of buying back guns from legal gun owners , again with my tax money . i could go on but i have things to do .

i dont want to separate and i dont want to join the usa . i do believe that for canada to stay at the top of the list , our parliament need restructuring , otherwise we will self destruct from the inside out . maybe .
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  #37  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:26 PM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by liar View Post
stats dont lie . right now canada is one of the best place to be in the world . what worries me is where are we going ? what will be left for my grandchildren ? as asked in another post " what is trudeau's end game ?" the radical changes/decisions we have seen in the last few years lead me to believe that in ten years the stats will not look so favorably on whats left of canada . if/when alberta becomes a have not province how much money can we expect to flow back from the rest of canada ? our government gave a convicted terrorist $10 mm of my tax money in such a way that the widow of the soldier he killed could not access it . is that our future ? the same terrorist was given a standing ovation when he showed up on a talk show out east . this same government is now talking of buying back guns from legal gun owners , again with my tax money . i could go on but i have things to do .

i dont want to separate and i dont want to join the usa . i do believe that for canada to stay at the top of the list , our parliament need restructuring , otherwise we will self destruct from the inside out . maybe .
And Vancouver is supposed to be one of the top places in the world to live. I would blow my brains out before I lived there again lol. Stats are far from perfect they are nothing more then the opinion of the sample group and often biases.

There is a lot of great things about Canada but sadly a lot of what makes Canada great is being stripped away more and more. If it continues on this path the negatives may one day out rank the positives.
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  #38  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:37 PM
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Red Bullets Red Bullets is offline
 
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The American dream seems like a nightmare. Canada needs to get a national identity again. And it can't be multiculturalism. I mean that in an objective way. We need to be Canadian first, and then Albertan second.

Some comments said were spot on so I won't rant.

This clip is a great analogy to separation. One sheepherder is Canada and one is Alberta. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY5MmhLQBng
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  #39  
Old 12-08-2019, 01:48 PM
stuckincity stuckincity is offline
 
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Canada is still the greatest country in the world.
I agree 100%!
Any UNITED country that takes up half a continent is pretty invulnerable to any kind of invasion by "hitlers"!
Even Australia don't cut it, because they don't have the natural resources and industrial might that we do here in Canada.

I said many times here - all we need is a "Firewall" here in in Alberta, or any other province, to tell the feds that Ottawa legislation we don't like doesn't apply within our borders.
The Americans call it "Nullification Laws".

But don't break up this greatest country, because we'd still all be allies if things in general went to shxxxxxxx.

As for joining the States - don't get sick or badly injured unless you want to remortgage your house and maybe go bankrupt.

I liked all the Americans I ever met in my life, but there's a lotta silly BS going on down there that I don't want any part of.

Just sayin
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  #40  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:04 PM
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I view the separation process as unlikely, though possible. I wonder about the details though, such as how things like how mortgages and such would transfer over legally.

Watching the Wexit banter on FB does not lend a lot of hope that anything will come of it. Although there seem to be some smart folks among them, the many dumb ones there seem to ruin things for the lot. Many posters may really be that dumb, some might be leftist trolls intentionally sabotaging the movement by posting to make it look like a bunch of bigoted stooges. Don't get me wrong, I realize there will be some genuine bigoted stooges among them, but what's the ratio of bots and trolls to genuine doorknobs?
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  #41  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:05 PM
59whiskers 59whiskers is offline
 
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We have a young population in Alberta. No more transfer payments to Ottawa and that would fund a Alberta Pension Plan. Do not like what is coming out of Ottawa and the country of Quebec. Need to keep more money and decisions here.
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  #42  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:29 PM
stuckincity stuckincity is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 59whiskers View Post
We have a young population in Alberta. No more transfer payments to Ottawa.....Do not like what is coming out of Ottawa and the country of Quebec
That's one of the things I meant by a "firewall".
Don't give keebec anything of OURS unless they offer something in return.

Offer WHAT in return..........?!?
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  #43  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:38 PM
bsmitty27 bsmitty27 is offline
 
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Remember what we thought of Quebec in the 90's. Well that what you all sound like now!
We live in a great country. I am not saying that everything is perfect. Not even close, but when you compare to our other countries we are doing ok! And I also have lots of family in the US of A the ones who are doing good and have no health problems, they think our system is backwards. Paying higher taxes and helping other people. The ones who have family health problems and have lost everything to pay for, family's issues wasn't covered under their insurance for some reason, are wishing they lived here.
My brothers wife who is from washington but has moved to BC with my brother was sure happy to be home for 9 months with their newborn baby, had a secure job to go back to and even got some income to make things easier on the family. I think they get 12 weeks no pay in the good old US of A. Ya the Tird in Ottawa is a incompetent weasel, and I cant believe he got in again. but the hamburglar we have for a leader now is another kind of a weasel altogether!
If your not happy here please feel free to head south. More beautiful landscape for us CANADIANS!
I'm out!
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  #44  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:46 PM
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Rhino81 Rhino81 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bsmitty27 View Post
Remember what we thought of Quebec in the 90's. Well that what you all sound like now!
We live in a great country. I am not saying that everything is perfect. Not even close, but when you compare to our other countries we are doing ok! And I also have lots of family in the US of A the ones who are doing good and have no health problems, they think our system is backwards. Paying higher taxes and helping other people. The ones who have family health problems and have lost everything to pay for, family's issues wasn't covered under their insurance for some reason, are wishing they lived here.
My brothers wife who is from washington but has moved to BC with my brother was sure happy to be home for 9 months with their newborn baby, had a secure job to go back to and even got some income to make things easier on the family. I think they get 12 weeks no pay in the good old US of A. Ya the Tird in Ottawa is a incompetent weasel, and I cant believe he got in again. but the hamburglar we have for a leader now is another kind of a weasel altogether!
If your not happy here please feel free to head south. More beautiful landscape for us CANADIANS!
I'm out!
tell me, would you change your opinion if your career disappeared and you couldn’t provide for your family or pay your mortgage due to your employer deciding that his company has hit a dead end with the way the country’s leaders are taking it and feels the grass is greener south. Many are going through this and hundreds more every week. At what point is enough enough I ask?
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  #45  
Old 12-08-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhino81 View Post
tell me, would you change your opinion if your career disappeared and you couldn’t provide for your family or pay your mortgage due to your employer deciding that his company has hit a dead end with the way the country’s leaders are taking it and feels the grass is greener south. Many are going through this and hundreds more every week. At what point is enough enough I ask?
Ok you have the whatiffs down, what's the answer?
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #46  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:01 PM
cody j cody j is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Deezel View Post
Give this a watch. We could really use someone like her in the drivers seat.

Don't know how bad things are in Alberta? Watch this & help me fight back

What we need is that UN pandering idiot removed from office. He, like his father, is anti-Alberta. He is enjoying every minute of killing our energy sector under the guise of UN commitments and the climate hoax.
I can imagine the Liberals rolling their eyes in contempt as she spoke
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  #47  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:04 PM
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Ok you have the whatiffs down, what's the answer?
those are unfortunately not what ifs ken. Those are and continue to be the sad realities we are facing and will continue to face unless something changes with our province, getting oil to tide waters would be a great start without constant resistance. Maybe entice big oil to stick around and in turn, so will the jobs and the families and the mortgages etc etc. To me our leader is the problem and scare tactics are just that. But they are making Justin think about things do you think.
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  #48  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:37 PM
bsmitty27 bsmitty27 is offline
 
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I feel for everyone who is struggling through these hard times! But you know your family will be safe. If you were in the states and you lost your job, and God forbid a child or wife got sick! No insurance! Your done!
I would beg, borrow steal, I dont even want to say what else I'd to to keep my family healthy and safe.

We all know that the how the boombs are the good times and the busts are the **** times. It's not just alberta or canada. Hell we are going to lose 60% of or professional driving jobs in the next 15 years. And they call that progress. Industry's not coming back in a big way till oils up. Tax breaks dont make up for a 50.00 drop in oil.
We need to plan ahead. Get small companies and start ups tax breaks. Kenny took away the tax breaks for some small industries that were starting to take off in alberta (tech software, video companies) he is going to sink us by paying big oil,we wont see any of that money in jobs or reinvestment. If the last month had shown us anything, this should be it!
We have a great country with great people. We stick up for people who are going through tough times. I'm a very proud canadian!
I'm back!
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  #49  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:39 PM
dgrimard dgrimard is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ShortsideK View Post
If it's so bad, why don't you just LEAVE?
This is a bad attitude, I hear the same all over gun debate. to any one that says this it is maybe time for them to leave.

Now is as good as anytime to start becoming more independent as a province.
Not just alberta but all province should be striving for more autonomy from the feds, easier to deal with the specific needs of each province.
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  #50  
Old 12-08-2019, 03:41 PM
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I don't think sparklysocks thinks about anything on his own, other than padding his enormous bank account. We were all hoping that a united front from the West would slow him down, yet here we sit, powerless.

Separation won't happen, the only hope is someone with balls calling for a no-confidence vote with actual proof that can put him away and illuminate his puppet masters.

He could be in that chair for 30 years, he is loved out East, he gives them everything they want and more, and is bringing in his own voters.

A whole lot of people best start living within their means and I mean yesterday.

Many should have seen the signs in 2007/8 but didn't. Then again in 2014, and still didn't.

I think the puppeteers are counting on this, nearly free land for the having very soon.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #51  
Old 12-09-2019, 12:02 PM
liar liar is offline
 
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https://business.financialpost.com/d...4Ayc2n-jC_FSkY

another feel good article
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  #52  
Old 12-09-2019, 12:59 PM
lattery1 lattery1 is offline
 
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Default Not with my luck...

With my luck about a week after we joined the US, Hillary would be elected...
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  #53  
Old 12-09-2019, 01:51 PM
Redhorse Ranch Redhorse Ranch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liar View Post
No matter how bad the naysayers think it would be to separate, staying in confederation as it's now structured will be ten times worse. Canada is headed for a recession of our own doing in the midst of a global economy that's perking along pretty good.
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  #54  
Old 12-09-2019, 02:11 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Talking of leaving is stupid.
Talking of becoming more independent is smart.

Every time one of these we exit folks start talking, we loose $$$ in Alberta.

Though I understand the frustrations of everyone and agree that we might benefit from leaving confederation in the long long run. Today is about getting to work. Support Kenney in what he is doing, make a stink about the mistreatment of Alberta but for the love of God stop talking about leaving. It makes us all look stupid.
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  #55  
Old 12-09-2019, 02:19 PM
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Arachnodisiac Arachnodisiac is offline
 
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Which beliefs and values are those, and how are you being deprived of them now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperMOA View Post
Why don’t you just LEAVE me one place in Canada that reflects my beliefs and values?
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  #56  
Old 12-09-2019, 02:40 PM
liar liar is offline
 
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With my luck about a week after we joined the US, Hillary would be elected...
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  #57  
Old 12-09-2019, 02:40 PM
stuckincity stuckincity is offline
 
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Originally Posted by lattery1 View Post
With my luck about a week after we joined the US, Hillary would be elected...



YIKES!!

Thanks a lot for the future nightmares! Now I can't "unthink" that!
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  #58  
Old 12-09-2019, 03:37 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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As much as people appreciate our health care system, how long will we actually have it? If we keep going deeper and deeper into debt, by giving away money to criminals, terrorists tefugees and foreign countries, it's only a matter of time, before there isn't enough money to pay for our health care. Once we can't pay for it, they will start dropping the coverage, until we have to pay for most treatments ourselves. They will raise the taxes to make up for shortcomings, but with so many social programs to pay for, they won't be able to raise the taxes high enough to pay for everything, and still leave us with enough to live on.
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  #59  
Old 12-09-2019, 04:09 PM
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pinelakeperch pinelakeperch is offline
 
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We live in the greatest country in the world (which has been proven statistically). I'm an Albertan, but I'm a Canadian first.
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  #60  
Old 12-09-2019, 04:18 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by pinelakeperch View Post
We live in the greatest country in the world (which has been proven statistically). I'm an Albertan, but I'm a Canadian first.
If you set the right criteria, you can make several countries out to be the best country in the world. Myself, I am an Albertan first, a Canadian second. I am proud to be from Alberta, not so proud to be Canadian, under the present government.
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