Trophy Sheep 2012 - Page 2

Pillage · #31 07-26-2012, 11:40 AM

I cant believe guys put in for those draws and don't even know what they are getting or how big of a deal it is...

#32 07-26-2012, 11:49 AM

Roughly 2,500 licenced sheep hunters in Alberta and nearly 11,000 people putting in for sheep draws. Most people put in for everything they can when it goes on draw.

#33 07-26-2012, 12:08 PM

I have ran into a few guys with those tags in the past. The majority do not realize there's actually real mountains where the hunting occurs, and a couple even assumed it was a matter of driving up to the herd and dropping a big one. Im pretty sure a few guys didn't even show up for the actual hunt after realizing they had to walk. Pretty low probability of guys who know the area actually drawing that tag.

rammer · #34 07-26-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Roughly 2,500 licenced sheep hunters in Alberta and nearly 11,000 people putting in for sheep draws. Most people put in for everything they can when it goes on draw.

What is a licensed sheep hunter?

Rackmastr · #35 07-26-2012, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rammer

What is a licensed sheep hunter?

Hunters who buy sheep licenses....

Pathfinder76 · #36 07-26-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Roughly 2,500 licenced sheep hunters in Alberta and nearly 11,000 people putting in for sheep draws. Most people put in for everything they can when it goes on draw.

That is why I have said for years that these applications need to come with a financial burden. Enough of one that guys actually think twice about applying. And then the tag needs to be that much more burdensome.

Ryry4 · #37 07-26-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

That is why I have said for years that these applications need to come with a financial burden. Enough of one that guys actually think twice about applying. And then the tag needs to be that much more burdensome.

I agree 100%. My tag for sheep in Nevada cost $1200 US.

#38 07-26-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

That is why I have said for years that these applications need to come with a financial burden. Enough of one that guys actually think twice about applying. And then the tag needs to be that much more burdensome.

While I agree with the principal Chuck, is it really fair to "burden" resident hunters for a resource they own? I know what you are getting at but it just seems somehow wrong to make it a game for only those that can afford it.....kinda like paid hunting in some ways I guess.

Ryry4 · #39 07-26-2012, 01:16 PM

As resident hunters the burden is already ours. Upping the cost may make people think about it and decide if they really want to go ahead with the application. In cases like this and goat where it is such a sought after tag Nd people apply with out knowing what they are getting into it might not be a bad thing. Plus it will bring money into F&W that is being bled dry by he gov't.

Pillage · #40 07-26-2012, 01:23 PM

Well at least the sheep are going to be save for us, if guys have no clue on what it takes to hunt them and where to go.Unless they pay the money for a guide.

Pathfinder76 · #41 07-26-2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

While I agree with the principal Chuck, is it really fair to "burden" resident hunters for a resource they own? I know what you are getting at but it just seems somehow wrong to make it a game for only those that can afford it.....kinda like paid hunting in some ways I guess.

It is all about priorities. I don't pay to watch hunting on TV because I would rather pay to do it myself. There is $1000 in my pocket right there. I don't smoke. Another grand. I don't drink. Another grand. I hunt in a 15 yr old vehicle. Another grand. I don't have a smart phone or a data plan. Another grand. I could go on and on and on. But, $100 to apply for 438 sheep is unaffordable? Come on.

Maybe someday we should all compare tax bills and see who actually owns what.

#42 07-26-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

Maybe someday we should all compare tax bills and see who actually owns what.

What's next? Dropping our pants?

I'm glad you can afford it and without sending you my T4, I'm sure I could afford it but I really wasn't thinking about you or I....I was thinking about those other 11,000 Albertans that dream of drawing a tag. Maybe they all could afford $100 bucks but could they afford $2k? I don't know. Considering it could take 20 or more years to draw a sheep tag it could add up to a lot of cash. Not everyone has a cushy bank job.

decker · #43 07-26-2012, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

It is all about priorities. I don't pay to watch hunting on TV because I would rather pay to do it myself. There is $1000 in my pocket right there. I don't smoke. Another grand. I don't drink. Another grand. I hunt in a 15 yr old vehicle. Another grand. I don't have a smart phone or a data plan. Another grand. I could go on and on and on. But, $100 to apply for 438 sheep is unaffordable? Come on.

Maybe someday we should all compare tax bills and see who actually owns what.

How about for all those residents that have shot a Trophy bighorn and had it Registered don't get to hunt for sheep no more. One in a lifetime.

Ryry4 · #44 07-26-2012, 03:21 PM

I don't think we should increase the draw fee, I think the tag fee should be higher. Too many times in he last few years guys have drawn these. Dry coveted tags and not bothered to hunt. Why not have an option that if the tag is not purchased by a certain date it goes back in the pool and is drawn again?

Ryry4 · #45 07-26-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decker

How about for all those residents that have shot a Trophy bighorn and had it Registered don't get to hunt for sheep no more. One in a lifetime.

Would you be willing to do that with moose, elk and deer too? I don't think we should punish successful hunters.

decker · #46 07-26-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryry4

Would you be willing to do that with moose, elk and deer too? I don't think we should punish successful hunters.

Im just saying to charge what chuck is saying would be unfare to some as well. Sure some do put in for draws they have no clue about, but why should the rest of the sheep hunting crowd suffer?

decker · #47 07-26-2012, 03:33 PM

Not sure what the perfect resolution would be but charging more to hunt isn't the answer.

bonecollector10 · #48 07-26-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryry4

I don't think we should increase the draw fee, I think the tag fee should be higher. Too many times in he last few years guys have drawn these. Dry coveted tags and not bothered to hunt. Why not have an option that if the tag is not purchased by a certain date it goes back in the pool and is drawn again?

This I agree with. With certain tags like the special sheep drawa. Im not directing this to the OP but its disapointing when guys draw a tag that mean the world to someone else and they decide not to hunt. My opinion is drawing is free ($5) like any other tag but if succesful must purchase by a certain date for X amount. If the tag isnt purchased then it is put back in the system and another lucky hunter would be chosen. The amount would have to be substantial enough to ward off guys that would like to shoot a sheep but arent sure if they have the time,energy, but be low enough that the average guy doesnt have to choose between college or hunting a coveted tag. So many gray areas I know...

#49 07-26-2012, 03:42 PM

ESRD explained it to me that these non purchased tags are factored into the equation and if tags went back into a pool to be reallocated, the number of tags given out would likely be reduced so nothing would be gained. At least that's what they told me.

bonecollector10 · #50 07-26-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

ESRD explained it to me that these non purchased tags are factored into the equation and if tags went back into a pool to be reallocated, the number of tags given out would likely be reduced so nothing would be gained. At least that's what they told me.

Oh so what your saying is they expect not all draws awarded to be actually hunted? I guess that makes sense, im sure theyve calculated harvest sucess into the equation.

Pathfinder76 · #51 07-26-2012, 04:41 PM

TJ, the point is to illustrate that not everything is fair and most of our situation is indicative of choices made. Not everyone is paying the same for the lifestyle we enjoy in this country. Your analogy of everyone standing around with their pants around their ankles would illustrate the "fair" analogy quite well I'm sure. Either way, that life.

While I'm flattered that you like to research my personal life and post it on the internet I would appreciate your efforts in finding a new hobby.

And just because I'm grumpy at the moment, a T4 is not indicative of your tax bill.

#52 07-26-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

TJ, the point is to illustrate that not everything is fair and most of our situation is indicative of choices made. Not everyone is paying the same for the lifestyle we enjoy in this country. Your analogy of everyone standing around with their pants around their ankles would illustrate the "fair" analogy quite well I'm sure. Either way, that life.

While I'm flattered that you like to research my personal life and post it on the internet I would appreciate your efforts in finding a new hobby.

And just because I'm grumpy at the moment, a T4 is not indicative of your tax bill.

Chuck, as I said, I get what you are getting at and I too agree that it would be nice to see these tags taken more seriously but at the end of the day, the wildlife in Alberta belongs to the people and I'm not sure basically allowing access to it for only those that can afford it is the answer.

You and I are both a little round around the middle. I'm sure there are those guys that give up a lot so then can train hard and they feel it's unfair when they see fat guys like us with covetted tags. After all they've given up so much to be fit. Or what about the guy that has hunted sheep religiously for the past 30 years? He has given up bow hunting and waterfowling for his pursuit of sheep. Is it fair that some guy that's never hunted sheep but spent the fall months with bow and shotgun in hand gets a covetted tag? Why does money have to be the benchmark as to who gets access to the best tags? Should money really be the ultimate decider of what life is?

As for the rest of your drivel...I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

Pathfinder76 · #53 07-26-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Chuck, as I said, I get what you are getting at and I too agree that it would be nice to see these tags taken more seriously but at the end of the day, the wildlife in Alberta belongs to the people and I'm not sure basically allowing access to it for only those that can afford it is the answer.

You and I are both a little round around the middle. I'm sure there are those guys that give up a lot so then can train hard and they feel it's unfair when they see fat guys like us with covetted tags. After all they've given up so much to be fit. Or what about the guy that has hunted sheep religiously for the past 30 years? He has given up bow hunting and waterfowling for his pursuit of sheep. Is it fair that some guy that's never hunted sheep but spent the fall months with bow and shotgun in hand gets a covetted tag? Why does money have to be the benchmark as to who gets access to the best tags? Should money really be the ultimate decider of what life is?

As for the rest of your drivel...I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

TJ, you are right as usual.

walking buffalo · #54 07-26-2012, 06:06 PM

Had to check the posting dates a few times to be sure this was a new thread.

Twobucks · #55 07-26-2012, 11:25 PM

While we are playing "what if's". . .it seems to me that there should be some way of prioritizing dedicated sheep hunters.

What if draw eligibility was tied to either an educational requirement (like a sheep biology or mountain skills course) or a conservation volunteer requirement? Divide sheep tag draws into a Pool A and Pool B.

I realize it's not a perfect solution and that the government is not likely to be keen on more programs to administer. But especially with talk of more tags going to draw, there should be some mechanism that protects or bolsters opportunities for the truly dedicated.

depopulator · #56 07-27-2012, 07:00 AM

There are (for now) plenty of opportunities for over-the-counter sheep tags in Alberta. No draw required, so the number of draw applicants, and cost of draw application is largely irrelevant. I mention this in case some of you forgot that the draws for easy access sheep are not the only sheep hunts available in Alberta (again, for now).

mightybuck · #57 07-27-2012, 03:12 PM

Send me a message. I would not spend the money on an outfitter I will tell you how to shoot a big ram by yourself. Been up there twice for that same season and been in on three ram kills all around 190...

Speckle55 · #58 07-27-2012, 03:57 PM

Randy Babala of Hinton is the most knowledgeable and will have a idea who he would recomend..not sure if he would guide any more.

Hunted 438 C since 1973 and then there was 23 sheep in the zone in Sept/Oct maybe more in Spinx if they were out of Park and 10 Mule Deer

Last year its was about 1067 on mine and 275 off 438

Your best bet is on west side of 438B in areas called the Hot Rocks or Slaughter Hill .. there will be lots of snow in areas and will be bone chilling in the wind and let me tell you there is deadly wind in that area be carefull ..just set up in spots and do lots of bino work and spotting scope you are waiting for the rams to come off mine site or the Park coming to mine.. as others have posted..

it is sort of a Canned Hunt as they are not scared of you .. also there is a Horn Rot issue with the sheep so be carefull with the horns if you get one ..one guy's Ram had a horn fall off on one side at parking lot and another from Hinton(Kevin)abcess of the horn right by the skull..
Do some Re-con if you can in Early August come here as to see what the terrian is like and trails to other side i would recommmend that as a good start and get your maps ..

Story a friend found 2 Rams locked together one was 190 plus and the other was in the 180's he has them mounted

David

Speckle55 · #59 07-27-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlbertaHunter2009

I've heard a few people mention about the Mine or Mine Boundary. Where abouts is this area? Which is the easiest route to get there? What brings the sheep to this area? Thanks

the mine boundary is 438B and is closed to hunting ..Sheephunter answered how to get there .. if you do a re-con stop by the Fish and Wildlife office in Hinton and talk to Chris or Adam/Jeff and get a map/or they will tell you how to access trails..
What brings the sheep to this area is regeneration plants that is not native to area and the area has had the trees removed so 95 % is now below tree line( and with tree regen not much because of 1700 animals on site pasture 10 sq miles).. they have the protection of mine vechicals and personal moving about the mine so predatation is not a issue and they have adjusted to this,,, the empolyees have name's for them the bigger rams (about 250 rams on mine in Nov)

David

MountainTi · #60 07-27-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

While I agree with the principal Chuck, is it really fair to "burden" resident hunters for a resource they own? I know what you are getting at but it just seems somehow wrong to make it a game for only those that can afford it.....kinda like paid hunting in some ways I guess.

I agree with you in a way, but I could see a change working also. Every Albertan can still go hunt sheep for $50, very affordable. What about a few new november tags. Say 1 lottery tag per huntable zone bordering a national park. There are many of these big old rams dying in the park as they never see the outside during hunting season. These would be a highly coveted, once in a lifetime tag. Why not a draw fee of $500, refundable if not drawn, of course kept if drawn. I'm sure any dedicated sheep hunter would happily pay that much for one of these tags