Leases.....again (SORRY)

[drake]

ok....I know this has been discussed to the point of nausea but bear with me; I searched the archive but couldn't find a clear cut answer.....

I want to access several grazing leases this fall for hunting purposes. The zone is several hours away.

Many of the leases have Lease Holder Conditions as approved by the Minister such as:
-Please contact 3 days before accessing


That is fine...I have no problem contacting lease holders.

I want to get all my ducks in a row before the season...and I want to get down to the zone to scout and familiarize myself with the land.

I want to make contact with all the leaseholders now and let them know about my intentions to hunt the fall giving me time to sort out any access issues with the land manager now.

Is it to early to do this or do I have to wait until 3 days before I want to hunt? My fear is that if they deny access 3 days before my hunt I may not have the time to sort the issue out (its my understanding that these issues can take weeks)

What if I cant get ahold of a lease holder?....can I leave a message stating my intentions, then access the lease?

Does anyone out there have a strategy for this type of a situation...I mean, trying to get access organized before the season when living several hours away from their intended hunting zone? I am all ears....

The last thing I want to do is run into problems/conflicts with leaseholders or break the law.

[pikergolf]

Contact the lease holder now and convey your concerns to him. Most are pretty good.

[masonjames]

Allot of lease land holders at least around where I live, treat their leases as if it is their own private property and can indefinitely deny access simply because they don’t want to allow hunters. The land they essentially rent, from essentially us, or lands we as Albertians should infact has the right to access without athlete being good clause to deny access for some reason or another, they treat as though it belongs to them. I understand they invest into the lease with maintenance and improvements and costs asssociated with holding the lease but, since there grandpas grandpas had that lease and they still hold it today they feel personal entitlement to it and treat it as though it is privately owned land.

Some lease holders are fantastic and understand how the system is to operate and only deny access for things such as cattle grazing periods or extreme wildfire situations etc. Others, like I treat it as though it is there privately held property, and either make up excuses why they cannot discuss the matter at that time then never pick up the phone again, or simple say nope, we don’t allow hunting on our lands. Even though they cannot refuse without cause and reasonable reasons as to why during the particular period of time you wish to access one cannot.

It all depends on the person you are dealing with. Lots you will have no problem being able to access the lease and lots it will be impossible if trying to deal with them alone.

I believe by law you can access any lease land in Alberta once you have made reasonable attempts to contact the leaseholder without success. One in answered phone call or one non returned call would probably be non sufficient to claim that right however as the leaseholder does have rights of their own in relation to the lease.
But if multiple attempts have been made over a constant period of time, I think by law you can access. Bjt try explaining that to the rcmp or fish and game wothbthe leaseholder then catches you in the lease and wants to charge you with trespassing.
Like I said a very large number of them will just outright refuse access and tell you we don’t allow anyone on our land, even though you only are inquiring about the lease land the hold. Again, they feel personally entitled to that land as though it is their one privately held property.

Others, will tell you go ahead, stay on road or park and walk on foot, no fires, and no acces during x period as we move cattle in during that time and gonand have fun.

Just depends on the people on the other end. The earlier you get in touch the better. Don’t wait till last minute because again, you can’t expect just because it lease land they have to let you on. They don’t if they have reason, and of they don’t they may not anyways. Get permission early and make sure you agree that you will follow up with them prior to you actually accessing the lease so that they can at that time be reminded you me coming and will be present on the land. Then their is no confusion 2 months down the road.

For any lease holder who constantly denies access without good reasonable reasons as to why they feel they must you can get in touch with the Alberta government I believe and have them look into it, because as residents of Alberta we do have rights on the public use of those lands. The lease holder is essentially renting publically owned lands.

This is the way I understand though. But I certainly could be wrong somewhere along the way. So I’ll follow and see if anyone has any more info as well. Either way, contact early. Don’t wait till the last minute. If they say no, don’t go, if you think they are being unjust and unreasonable in their denying access get in touch with the correct authorities and get further direction form them before you attempt to access it anyways or something.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

The classic “it’s to dry” isn’t up to the leaseholder. It’s stated in the rules that there needs to be a fireban on in the specific county for access to be denied.

Drake, I would do your due diligence and let them know when you will be accessing the crown land that they hold grazing rights to.

[BuckCuller]

You can contact them now but if it is down south most will ask you to contact them shortly before your hunt. If your hunt is before November they may still have cattle in different parts of the grazing lease that you can not hunt and they want to clarify where and when you can hunt. There are a lot that only allow written permission also for private and lease land.
I got on everywhere I asked for my antelope last year but had some rain just before we went.
They will deny access or restrict it to foot access only if there is a fire ban and the conditions are to dry because they are afraid of grass fires.
Good luck.

[ram crazy]

Good luck, I'm pretty sure there will be fire bans on before the fall, and if that is the case you may be SOL. I now one fella last year had a 17 yr. priority for the species he was hunting and got all pizzy when he was denied access. Even threatening with a lawyer he still lost. Then one wonders why land owners and lease holders get to the way they do, because remember a lease holder has owned land as well and you may as well forget about ever getting access to that land. If you go in with the it's my rights attitude that's usually when shat goes sideways. Most lease holders are decent if you have the right attitude.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Good luck, I'm pretty sure there will be fire bans on before the fall, and if that is the case you may be SOL. I now one fella last year had a 17 yr. priority for the species he was hunting and got all pizzy when he was denied access. Even threatening with a lawyer he still lost. Then one wonders why land owners and lease holders get to the way they do, because remember a lease holder has owned land as well and you may as well forget about ever getting access to that land. If you go in with the it's my rights attitude that's usually when shat goes sideways. Most lease holders are decent if you have the right attitude.

You can tell the weather 1.5 months out. That’s impressive.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

You can tell the weather 1.5 months out. That’s impressive.

No he's not psychic... But I'm sure he either has lease land or related to someone who does. Or he plays a really convincing devils advocate. Either way he believes lease land is basically private.

[drake]

Thanks to those who provided feedback to the original question. Please refrain from derailing this thread with your opinions/musings about the lease issue.

Keep the useful information related to the original query coming...

[Birchcraft]

A person can cite all the rules they wish but when the people supposed to enforce them are buds with the leaseholders there's not much you can do is there? Even if you do come out on top in some sort of legal dispute later on, your hunt for that day or even the whole weekend.

[sweld]

Get the i Hunter app then buy the grazing lease maps for your area. Once you do that just click on the grazing lease you want to access and the lease holders name and contact information will pop up as well as all the conditions to access there lease.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rackmastr]

If the lease is in the deep parts of southern AB and the access is in Sep or Oct you will likely have to be a bit fluid in your access plans. Last year fire bans were lifted in a couple counties before pronghorn season but then a wind storm blew up mid week and one of the counties put a ban back on, changing access.

It all worked out great, and just meant some navigating of plans and communicating with lease and deeded land holders.

Likely the biggest variable with the south and access and is almost always a concern year to year the earlier in the season when you are hunting. Keep in touch if you need any pointers down there depending on the species or area

[GrandSlam]

Originally Posted by sweld

Get the i Hunter app then buy the grazing lease maps for your area. Once you do that just click on the grazing lease you want to access and the lease holders name and contact information will pop up as well as all the conditions to access there lease.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, well worth it.

[drake]

Originally Posted by sweld

Get the i Hunter app then buy the grazing lease maps for your area. Once you do that just click on the grazing lease you want to access and the lease holders name and contact information will pop up as well as all the conditions to access there lease.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wasn’t asking “HOW” to find leaseholder info but thanks...

[drake]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

If the lease is in the deep parts of southern AB and the access is in Sep or Oct you will likely have to be a bit fluid in your access plans. Last year fire bans were lifted in a couple counties before pronghorn season but then a wind storm blew up mid week and one of the counties put a ban back on, changing access.

It all worked out great, and just meant some navigating of plans and communicating with lease and deeded land holders.

Likely the biggest variable with the south and access and is almost always a concern year to year the earlier in the season when you are hunting. Keep in touch if you need any pointers down there depending on the species or area

Thanks Rack...will do, hunting mule deer in nov. Will PM you when I get a chance

[RZR]

What WMU did you pull your Mulie tag?

[RZR]

Originally Posted by drake

Many of the leases have Lease Holder Conditions as approved by the Minister such as:
-Please contact 3 days before accessing.

I think you just answered your own question right here.

[The moose]

Originally Posted by RZR

I think you just answered your own question right here.

Is that the minimum or maximum days?

[RZR]

Originally Posted by The moose

Is that the minimum or maximum days?

It states it pretty clear I thought. I’m pretty sure if they want it to read differently it would have read a minimum or maximum 3 days before.

[The moose]

Originally Posted by RZR

It states it pretty clear I thought. I’m pretty sure if they want it to read differently it would have read a minimum or maximum 3 days before.

And contacting them any time other then specifically 3 days is unacceptable?

[Knotter]

Don't over think it. Contact the leaseholder and ask them.

They're just people. They can't take your birthday away.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by The moose

And contacting them any time other then specifically 3 days is unacceptable?

That’s your opinion!

[drake]

Originally Posted by Knotter

Don't over think it. Contact the leaseholder and ask them.

They're just people. They can't take your birthday away.

Lol....that’s good

[7magtime]

I've contacted leaseholders in the summer before just to make sure there are no unforeseen circumstances which might affect my fall hunt. Most appreciate the contact and grant permission but ask to contact them a few days before I head out to make sure conditions haven't changed and to make sure their livestock is out of the lease......

[AlbertaWild]

Contact the Local settlement officer. Let him know you phone left msgs and no reply back, he will call the GRL holder.. make sure make notes before calling.. there are some leases that have same GRL# and may be across road from each other ; be specific..(example: both GRL with same number south of road and north of road) i ive ran into this already the lease holder said yes.. tells me when i see him i only meant north of the road and that was a weekend when settlement officer office was closed for the weekend so couldint call back or said he just dropped other hunters off on same GRL# but on south side so cant hunt south side; tells me at 2 or 3 pm when the elk are off the GRL(southside) that the hunter got the elk and are off the lease now; now i can access....lol. be clear on what you want to access and ask if anyone will be on lease hunting.