RCMP Thug Gets 3 Months House Arrest!

[KegRiver]

For those who seem so concerned with the sentence in this case, I believe that sentence was handed down by a Judge. And it seems to me that it is not out of line with other sentences handed out for similar crimes.

I would be more concerned with the Forces reaction to the false charges laid against the victim and the involvement or lack of involvement of the other two officers present.
To me those are far more troubling considerations.

To stand by and watch a crime being committed when you have the ability and even the mandate to stop it is simply not acceptable.

bigd, you seem to think we should turn a blind eye to what happened. That is what I find most troubling.

[bluther2]

Hope it's ok, I have edited your quotes a bit so as I can speak to some specific points.
QUOTE=Morbius131;905733]Alright I have seen the video as well and it was definitely disgusting.

So the question has yet to be asked: if the drunk civilian attacked the police officer like that would have received the same punishment? If not then there is something wrong with the law courts.

Morb[/QUOTE]

As another poster has stated it was similar to sentencing in Edmonton. I get to spend a fair bit of time in the Courts of Calgary and usually it is less- 150.00 fines for assaulting a P.O. I wonder what the going rate for punching out a judge is?

Originally Posted by burblecut

The Sentencing was a joke, but it’s expected. All 3 of these men are a disgrace to the badge.

Police are held to a higher standard… sure there are idiots in every profession, but it seems like 10 years ago there were a lot less idiots in RCMP uniforms. Police shouldn’t make “Mistakes” like this, leave that to a 18 yr old mall security guard. Keep it up with crappy members and you are going to have a society that doesn’t trust you at all.

I hope I don’t grow old and compare the RCMP to Mexican cops one day. Luckily I only have dealt with Great RCMP members, but I sure hope I never run into a unstable one.

I disagree most people I know with no record never even end up in Court, they go into a diversion programe. Check out section 2 (a). The Courts in this Country can give you 2 freebies for assaults-- why are we in the state we are in?

http://justice.alberta.ca/programs_s...esProgram.aspx

I completely agree, police should be held to a higher standard and that standard should include having comparatively harsh sentences imposed. Which in this case occurred.

The point about the change in the last decade, yup, I agree. That is what happens when politicians look at law enforcement as a budgetary issue. They cut budgets, no recruits, attrition through retirement, then what. Mass panic and "modified standards for hiring" Like many industries in Alberta this decade not only were they not getting the cream of the crop, sometimes they weren't getting skim milk. We are all experiencing it no matter what our line of work.

We should be dealing with the politicians who have allowed the social engineers to over rule common sense. Our system is not reflective of what the expectations of society are, and it's way easier to sit on the computer and speak to symptoms as they erupt. Rather than to deal with the bigger mess we have allowed them to create.

guess my signature line kind of sums up my opinion a lot quicker. Thanks to those that do the job well in the face of staggering stupidity.

[bigd]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

For those who seem so concerned with the sentence in this case, I believe that sentence was handed down by a Judge. And it seems to me that it is not out of line with other sentences handed out for similar crimes.

I would be more concerned with the Forces reaction to the false charges laid against the victim and the involvement or lack of involvement of the other two officers present.
To me those are far more troubling considerations.

To stand by and watch a crime being committed when you have the ability and even the mandate to stop it is simply not acceptable.

bigd, you seem to think we should turn a blind eye to what happened. That is what I find most troubling.

Please explain where i said anything about "turning a blind eye"??

You might consider brushing up on your reading comprehension skills. I believe i've made it quite clear that i do NOT condone his actions.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by bluther2

Hope it's ok, I have edited your quotes a bit so as I can speak to some specific points.
QUOTE=Morbius131;905733]Alright I have seen the video as well and it was definitely disgusting.

So the question has yet to be asked: if the drunk civilian attacked the police officer like that would have received the same punishment? If not then there is something wrong with the law courts.

Morb

As another poster has stated it was similar to sentencing in Edmonton. I get to spend a fair bit of time in the Courts of Calgary and usually it is less- 150.00 fines for assaulting a P.O. I wonder what the going rate for punching out a judge is?



I disagree most people I know with no record never even end up in Court, they go into a diversion programe. Check out section 2 (a). The Courts in this Country can give you 2 freebies for assaults-- why are we in the state we are in?

http://justice.alberta.ca/programs_s...esProgram.aspx

I completely agree, police should be held to a higher standard and that standard should include having comparatively harsh sentences imposed. Which in this case occurred.

The point about the change in the last decade, yup, I agree. That is what happens when politicians look at law enforcement as a budgetary issue. They cut budgets, no recruits, attrition through retirement, then what. Mass panic and "modified standards for hiring" Like many industries in Alberta this decade not only were they not getting the cream of the crop, sometimes they weren't getting skim milk. We are all experiencing it no matter what our line of work.

We should be dealing with the politicians who have allowed the social engineers to over rule common sense. Our system is not reflective of what the expectations of society are, and it's way easier to sit on the computer and speak to symptoms as they erupt. Rather than to deal with the bigger mess we have allowed them to create.

guess my signature line kind of sums up my opinion a lot quicker. Thanks to those that do the job well in the face of staggering stupidity.[/QUOTE]

Mr Bluther:

Don't you think that this forum with over 20,000 people is not monitored by the government in every capacity?

Do you not think that a thread like this has not made it to the Attorney General's office?

[Redfrog]

BigD I have a different perspective on this after reading your posts. It is easy to have a knee jerk reaction, but it looks different after some background and sober second thought. I think what he did was over the top, but he has gone through the system and been dealt with. Turn the page. We all have our demons and some never take the day off. I hope he comes out of this challenge ok.

A lot of stuff works on paper, not quite the same at 200 mph in a ****storm.

Can you shed some light on the actions of the other two officers who did nothing?

[bluther2]

Originally Posted by greylynx

As another poster has stated it was similar to sentencing in Edmonton. I get to spend a fair bit of time in the Courts of Calgary and usually it is less- 150.00 fines for assaulting a P.O. I wonder what the going rate for punching out a judge is?



I disagree most people I know with no record never even end up in Court, they go into a diversion programe. Check out section 2 (a). The Courts in this Country can give you 2 freebies for assaults-- why are we in the state we are in?

http://justice.alberta.ca/programs_s...esProgram.aspx

I completely agree, police should be held to a higher standard and that standard should include having comparatively harsh sentences imposed. Which in this case occurred.

The point about the change in the last decade, yup, I agree. That is what happens when politicians look at law enforcement as a budgetary issue. They cut budgets, no recruits, attrition through retirement, then what. Mass panic and "modified standards for hiring" Like many industries in Alberta this decade not only were they not getting the cream of the crop, sometimes they weren't getting skim milk. We are all experiencing it no matter what our line of work.

We should be dealing with the politicians who have allowed the social engineers to over rule common sense. Our system is not reflective of what the expectations of society are, and it's way easier to sit on the computer and speak to symptoms as they erupt. Rather than to deal with the bigger mess we have allowed them to create.

guess my signature line kind of sums up my opinion a lot quicker. Thanks to those that do the job well in the face of staggering stupidity.

Mr Bluther:

Don't you think that this forum with over 20,000 people is not monitored by the government in every capacity?

Do you not think that a thread like this has not made it to the Attorney General's office?[/QUOTE]

God I hope so

[bigd]

Just a quick thanks to all the members out there that have sent me pm's over the last couple of days. You have no idea how grateful i am for your kind words. I'm on a road trip right now but will try to respond individually to you all when we get home. Take care.

[kennedy]

Thank god this POS didnt pull out his gun and shoot the guy. To the guy thats defending his friend and said that he noticed a change in his behavior after mayerthorpe. Then it would had been your legal obligation to report him to your superiors and get him the help he needed such as counselling. To the other two POS that were there observing they should also be charged with participating in a crime.....very dissapointing

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Sad, simply sad.

That we should even have such an incident to discuss is saddest of all.


As a child the Police were my friends, as a young adult they deserved my respect.

Now I am getting close to retirement and all they have earned in recent years is my fear.

Sad.

You can explain away the actions of this one officer, or the one who kicked an innocent man in the face, or the ones who tazered a man to death.

Try warning a RCMP officer that there is a herd of deer in the road ahead of him like I did the other night. Then you will understand why this is all so sad.

Perhaps all members of the force are suffering from PTSD.


To all members of the RCMP, we are telling you there is a problem here.
You keep telling us that the problem is our prospective.

How many more beatings, how many more boots to the face, how many more Tazerings has to happen before you admit there is a problem and it's not our prospective.

Most importantly, where will YOU be when that happens?
Will you still be the most admired force in the World, or will you just be another Police force ? Or maybe even one of the worst in the world.

We can't help you fellas out here. Only you can change this. If you will hear what we are telling you.

X2. The one thing I would add is: Try, as I did a while ago, riding your horse, with your wife on hers, down a ditch on a country gravel road and, over the course of a couple of hours, have every single vehicle meeting or passing you, except one, slow down and wave in order to ensure (hopefully) that no dangerous mishaps occur. The one exception was a Royal Canadian MOUNTED Police car travelling at an estimated 60 MPH (no emergency lights or siren operating) which passed us at full speed with dust and rocks flying everywhere and not an ounce of common sense in the head of the young man at the wheel. Pretty sad.

I've been around as long as, or maybe even a little longer than, you KegRiver. Your post is the best one on this thread and sums up my feelings perfectly.

[bigd]

Originally Posted by kennedy

Thank god this POS didnt pull out his gun and shoot the guy. To the guy thats defending his friend and said that he noticed a change in his behavior after mayerthorpe. Then it would had been your legal obligation to report him to your superiors and get him the help he needed such as counselling. To the other two POS that were there observing they should also be charged with participating in a crime.....very dissapointing

It's not my 'legal' obligation, and besides- how do you know i didn't?

[big-river]

Keg River you absolutely nailed it. Absolutely.

BigD. You have changed my mind. You are not hearing what we are saying, you are reinforcing it.

I have never given a Law Enforcement Officer a hard time in my life. Yet, when I am stopped now, I fear what I will encounter. The Force's has lost our confidence and yet when we tell you this, you turn it around on us.

Please acknowledge what we are saying to you and try and understand what we are encountering out there from Law Enforcement.

It isn't good.

[jd23]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

For those who seem so concerned with the sentence in this case, I believe that sentence was handed down by a Judge. And it seems to me that it is not out of line with other sentences handed out for similar crimes.

I would be more concerned with the Forces reaction to the false charges laid against the victim and the involvement or lack of involvement of the other two officers present.
To me those are far more troubling considerations.

To stand by and watch a crime being committed when you have the ability and even the mandate to stop it is simply not acceptable.

bigd, you seem to think we should turn a blind eye to what happened. That is what I find most troubling.

I do not post on AO Forum but I will tonight. I've been a LEO in Alberta for over 20 years. I can shed some light on the Force's reaction to the incident. I did not watch the video until tonight. I only had to hear some of the circumstances in order to understand what the position of the CO and the RCMP would be to this incident. I watched the video to provide some insight to those other two members that have been referred to as "POS".

Prior to watching the video each and every person in my office knew immediately upon hearing of the incident that Sandboe would be criminally charged and the RCMP would seek his dismissal. I formed that opinion without need of watching the assault. The fact that he laid a charge that was proven to be false would clearly lead to his discharge regardless of the recent court ruling.

I watched the video. There was not two "POS" members, as they have so eloquently been referred to, standing by while the assault occurred. There was only one. bigd or any other member of the RCMP will not try and defend the second member for his lack of action. I do not know the circumstances of what was said during the attack by this member but in my opinion the member could have and should have intervened. Only he can explain why he chose not to and I am sure he would now regret his decision. I am not sure where anyone could form the opinion that at any point bigd defended Sandboe's actions or the inactions of the second member.

If you objectively watch the video again watch at what point the second bystander enters the hallway. I refer to him as a bystander because that's what he is. He is a civilian witness because he is a civilian guard who did not see what precipitated the assault and even if he had, he cannot be expected to intervene in a physical confrontation of any sort. This guy is doing a thankless job and he is a member of the community. He is not a sworn member of the RCMP.

I can say without hesitation that I have dealt with people charged with and later convicted with charges up to and including murder. Sometimes good people do bad things and have to be held accountable. I truly believe that some of the murderers I have dealt with were good people that made the worst possible decisions of their lives. Sandboe is now a convicted criminal and soon to be ex-member. I think bigd was trying to get across that there is more to Sandboe than this assault and his inexcusable subsequent actions.
There is more to Sandboe than a two minute video clip. He may well be a good person who made a terrible decision.

bigd was trying to put some of Sandboe's background into perspective. At no point is he condoning the events that occurred that day in LLB.

There was a time that I kept track of the fallen members that I knew or that were friends of co-workers. I quit somewhere between 10-20. Recently, one of my co-workers and I started rattling off the names of our fallen members and it was approaching 30 when we decided enough was enough. The 23 officer involved shootings in Alberta since 2008 doesn't speak very well for my career path either.

I was one of countless members that were involved in the aftermath of the Fallen Four incident. I will probably fail at trying to put it in perspective but I will try. For those that are not in Law Enforcement try and picture 4 members of your family or 4 co-workers being ambushed and brutally murdered....you don't get a call to gather for the wake....you get a call to attend the scene of their murders....you have to put your professional hat on and go about dealing with the investigation and aftermath....you return to your office and now to have to deal with the countless friends and family members of the Fallen....enter in the media....you now have had to deal with an unspeakable act to the best of your abilities....wait for it....the COVER-UP....but wait you know the truth and the facts but you cant' say anything to the media or the family members for that matter for fear of compromising the investigation...don't worry it's almost over...it's 6 years and counting and the court process has yet to conclude. How would that effect you? It does not end when the Fallen are laid to rest.

No one will ever condone Sandboe's actions. We can't quantify or qualify if PTSD had anything to do with this incident. It was a criminal act for which punishment has been and will continue to be handed out. LEO are held to a higher standard, be it the Police Act or the RCMP Act. All police Officers are dealt with in the Criminal system should that be the case and then Service Court or a Disciplinary Hearing where you will be discharged or made to forfeit pay depending on the seriousness of your transgression. After that is all said and done we are often dealt with in a civil court after all else is said and done.

There was once a time when there were tens of thousand of applications for mere hundreds of jobs in Law Enforcement. Today, there are nearly as many vacancies as there are applicants. Maybe Law Enforcement and the RCMP in particular, has eroded to some degree over the years. Maybe it's a sign of this generation.

Law Enforcement and the RCMP and in particular the RCMP did not cover-up Mayerthorpe, Kelowna, or Lac La Biche. There are processes in place that preclude members and agencies from speaking publicly in order that the accused persons (including Sandboe) are unfairly prejudiced before the courts.

Training programs are constantly being modified and improved upon. The number of mandatory training days and mandatory courses these days dwarfs the number that were required 15-20 years ago. It's not all bad, positive change is happening.

Just my two cents for what it's worth....

[Zulu9er]

"It affected me so deeply that I couldn't even force myself to hunt or fish for 3 full seasons. I just didn't give a crap about doing all the things that used to bring me so much happiness and fulfillment. I bought a little boat and motor 4 years ago and it's never seen a lake since I bought it. It just sits beside my house and waits for me to take it out to the lake." (end quote)

Anytime you want to dip the line, give me a shout,, presently working in Fort Mac,, but if you feel up to it,,, I'd go fishing with you anytime bud

[KegRiver]

jd23; Well said sir.

Straight from the heart. That is an explanation I can accept.
I know from experience that there are a lot of good officers out there. I believe you are one of them.

What does concern me is that the number of good officers who step over the line, seems to be increasing and that there seems to be a change in the force toward an attitude of "We are here to keep "YOU" in line, as opposed to we are here to serve and protect.

Yeah I do think it is this generation. A reflection of the public attitude.
And that concerns me even more. The society we live in has become totally self cantered. For the overwhelming majority it is all about "ME".

I do support the 99.9% of good officers out there. Perhaps more then anyone would suspect. I also believe that to say nothing when something is wrong does no one a favour. Especially those officers who care about the people they serve.

So far as this officer Sandboe thing. I don't pretend to know him or why he did what he did. So far as I'm concerned, that has been dealt with by the courts.

I don't have an opinion about his suitability for continued service within the RCMP.

I would say this though. If I knew the man. If I believed that he was sincerely regretful for his actions that day, I would have no problem with him continuing to wear the badge, should his superiors feel he is capable of the job. And if they don't think he is capable of doing the job, I would hope they would offer him a different job within the force.
But I don't, so I believe it is only reasonable to leave those determinations to those that do know him.

Understand. When I speak up, it is in the hope that someone will look at what I say and if I'm right, they will do what I can not do.

I know that I seldom get the whole story. I know that I often come to the wrong conclusions. For those reasons I seldom say what I think.
But there are times when one must speak up.

I believe that if we want our public servants to be the best that they can be, we must speak out against abuses and speak up when those who serve us go above and beyond the call of duty.

Most police officers are happy to receive out compliments and our praise, but don't seem to like it when we mention their failures.

You can't have one without the other and hope to remain balanced.


And by the way. If you are wondering who I am. If you call the High Level detachment and ask them about a letter delivered to them a few days after the fallen four incident, I am the author of that letter.

That letter might add some insight into where I stand with regards to the RCMP.

[KegRiver]

I guess the thing that comes to me from this exchange is that there seems to be a lack of understanding all around.

And I don't think bigd or anyone else is defending the actions of those who failed in this instance. And to be fair, I think I may have got shooter and bigd mixed up.
I do gather that shooter would rather we say nothing. I don't think that would be a good thing, we NEED to discuss this, for our sake and for the RCMP too.

I am saying that this sort of incident is becoming a bit to frequent in my opinion and I think someone needs to look into whether this is indeed the case and if so, what should be done about it.


From where I sit, it no longer feels like OUR police are here to serve and protect. Perhaps that is the way it has to be because of the attitude and behaviour of the general public.
If so, then I'll have to learn to live with it, but I do miss the way it used to be.

I suppose more then anything else, what I want to hear and what I'm not hearing is for the force to say, " We hear your concerns".

What I hear instead is, "The matter has been dealt with" "You don't know the whole story" "He was a good man who made a bad decision."

This really isn't about this one incident. At least for me it's not.
It's about too many such incidents. It's about too many officers standing by and watching these things happen, it's about being pulled over in the middle of the night for flashing my headlights on and off twice to warn an unknown oncoming vehicle that there are deer in the road up ahead, and then being barked at to stay in my vehicle. I immediately complied, of course, but WHY?
Why the attitude?

From experience, this is what I have come to expect when I deal with the police, even when those dealings are to flag for them at an accident site.
Or to use my snowplow to plow debris off the highway at an accident site.

Why?

[Lonnie]

RCMP has an attitude problem a training problem and a command problem about the last 10 years it started showing and most of this can be blamed right at the top they need a good over hall. to be brought back to being one of the best respected police forces in the wold instead of being compared with Hitlers gestapo

[hired_goon]

Keg, Hopefully I can help shine some light on some of your questions....

Originally Posted by KegRiver

What does concern me is that the number of good officers who step over the line,

Much of the current data actually shows that police officer misconduct is actually on it's way down. What is different is the prevailance of cameras immediacy and mass distribution of modern media. Watching a video of an incident like the Sandboe file evokes a far more emotional response than reading about about a an "officer who stuck a person several times", which was largely the only way you'd hear about an incident a few years back.

Police misconduct makes the news because it IS out of the ordinary (thankfully). However it becomes overrepresented, because people think to themselves that it's all they ever read about police. An example I use from my own experience is that a couple times a year, myself and my team attend large dinners for the poor. We help out with serving the food. The organizers always invite the media, but they almost never show, because it's expected and not considered newsworthy.

I also believe that to say nothing when something is wrong does no one a favour. Especially those officers who care about the people they serve.

In our service 15% of the internal investigations are initiated in house. That is, police officers saying, I think I saw someone do something that might have been wrong. Again, this doesn't make print. Even a lot of high profile news cases of police misconduct are started by police but that fact is often left out.

As has been mentioned, the person in the video "doing nothing" is not a police officer but a cell guard (usually a volunteer) used in smaller detachments whose job is simply to monitor the prisoners for medical conditions. This person would have neither the training nor the same duty to intervene.

I know that I seldom get the whole story. I know that I often come to the wrong conclusions. For those reasons I seldom say what I think.
But there are times when one must speak up.

Very few people rarely get the whole true story for a number of reasons. Often, police can't release all of the details of an investigation due to the legal process. Most times they are legally bound not to comments. Often the media can't print the whole story due to space restrictions. Sometimes, they "massage" the truth to make a story sound better.

I've had a lady call me in tears when interviewed about a story about a neighbourhood I policed. She told the reporter that I was great and that we worked hand in hand together for the neighbourhood, and it was being cleaned up. She had said that a few years prior she was afraid to walk in her neighbourhood, but that it had changed for the better. Headline read "Woman afraid to walk in own neighbourhood".... I wish I could say this is the only time it happened. And then what? How do you get the truth out? There's a saying that you can't win a war of words against someone who buys ink by the barrel.

Most police officers are happy to receive out compliments and our praise, but don't seem to like it when we mention their failures. You can't have one without the other and hope to remain balanced.

I'm afraid that is the just the human condition. I don't think really that there is anyone who likes having their failures pointed out. I like to think of myself as a good cop, and I've been told so on a number of occasions. But I admit that I get tired of hearing bad cop stories too. Especially when I know what they did was wrong. Those stories frustrate me as much as they do you, and all of us who wear a badge wear those mistakes.

I am saying that this sort of incident is becoming a bit to frequent in my opinion and I think someone needs to look into whether this is indeed the case and if so, what should be done about it.

As mentioned, police misconduct is truly on the decline, but is virtually impossible to eliminate 100% of the time. There are a lot of things in place to handle it when a police officer steps over the line. I think that the Sandboe case is evidence of that. Wrong was clearly done, he was charged and currently recommended to be terminated. This case was pretty straightforward, it becomes more challenging when it's not so black and white, and police are forced into a violent confrontation which escalates.

Police agencies also do have a lot of training in place to improve professionalism and reduce police misconduct. This is challenging, because handling violent situations is not an exact science. Mix in adrenaline and the fact that most incidents are over in a few seconds, and there's a large chance that mistakes will be made. I can tell you in all honesty, in my many years as a police officer, I have met only 1 or 2 people who I would truly call a bad apple, and they have been removed from the service. This is out of the thousand or so officers I've met in our service. I don't say that to gloss any thing over. I hate bad cops as much as you. Probably more so. Their screw ups make it that much harder for me to do my job.

What you have in most cases is good people dealing with violent situations that make a mistake in the heat of the moment. Sometimes, you even have officers acting entirely within the bonds of the law, but some people just don't like violence of any sort used by police. Policing sometimes involves doing not nice things to people, and there is ALWAYS going to be someone unhappy with the police.

But I can tell you too that good cops are being overly punished at the lower end of the spectrum to make it look like "we are doing something". My old partner was charged criminally for helping a neighbour while off duty when 4 teens were breaking into the neighbour's vehicle. There was an altercation with the thugs and one of them did not like the way they were treated. Investigation was launched. Crown prosecutors from another city said not to charge officer after TWO reviews. Police brass charged him anyways to "maintain transparency". And the member had his career put on hold for a few years while the case was in the legal process so management could look good. Usually this happens at lower levels. A guy I know ran his own licence plate to check if the in car computer was working. The service wanted a week's pay for "unlawful use of computer database". Thankfully this hypervigilience has subsided somewhat recently to a bit of a better balance.

This really isn't about this one incident. At least for me it's not.
It's about too many such incidents. It's about too many officers standing by and watching these things happen, it's about being pulled over in the middle of the night for flashing my headlights on and off twice to warn an unknown oncoming vehicle that there are deer in the road up ahead, and then being barked at to stay in my vehicle. I immediately complied, of course, but WHY?
Why the attitude?

Obviously I wasn't there for your incident, but when dealing with a police officer when you've been pulled over, always always always stay in your vehicle. One reason, is that from a traffic perspective, it's safer for you in your car, and the police officer really doesn't want the liability if you get hit. But more importantly, it can become an officer safety issue. The officer doesn't know if you're getting out to attack him. A couple of years back there were a couple of cases in Canada where this happened and officers were shot and killed. Police officers are trained that if a person gets out of their car, to immediately direct them back into their vehicle.

Sorry about the long post. Obviously this is a matter near and dear to my heart. I could go on for hours. But suffice it to say, I'm not here to defend every action of every police officer, and I have no doubt that there have been some unfavourable experiences by members of this board. But I am truly proud to be one and in all honestly I can say that the manner in which the vast majority of police officers conduct themselves in this country is far better than what is portrayed in the media.

Here's my final thought:
An old man was telling his son, "My son, I spent my entire life building bridges. I have built hundreds of bridges brick by brick. Not once in my life has anyone ever called me a bridge builder. But I had sex with one sheep...."

[HunterDave]

Great post hired goon. I live in a small town with an RCMP detachment, Morinville, where there is allot of interaction with it's members both on and off duty. Over the years I have been casual acquaintances with numerous LEO's who I had allot of time for. I do not paint all RCMP members with the same Sandboe brush as I know that it is simply not true.

I realize that some people might take exception to how they are spoken to by a LEO however my skin may be a little thicker due to my past military service and I am not offended by it. I can understand how other people could take offence to the way that some of the things are said to them though. But it is what it is and Canada has changed so our Leo's have had to change with it. Hopefully, it doesn't get to the point where our LEO's feel that they have to have their guns drawn for every traffic stop like it is in some places in the States.

I was serving when the infamous Somalia incident occurred. As a result of that incident there was some major azz covering that went on. Due to that single incident the Army went through a complete overhaul. Everyone was required to attend a one day training seminar about ethics. It became mandatory for all career courses and pre-deployment training to include an ethics lecture in the schedule and in order to maintain the same standard throughout the Army only specially trained ethic "experts" were allowed to conduct the training. Our platoon insignia, the ace of spades for Alpha Platoon, was even deemed possibly offensive and replaced with a kinder, gentler, more politically correct insignia. Finally, our Regiment, the best and most highly trained unit that I had the pleasure to serve in, was disbanded........all as a result of a few soldiers.

If the talking heads in the RCMP have not already done so, I think that at this point in time they should consider some sort of remedial training to try to stop the bleeding that recent events have caused and to help maintain (re-establish for some people) a high level of confidence in the general public.

I have worked with the RCMP on numerous occasions (Apec, G8, etc) and I know that getting paid for the hours that they work is of a huge concern. I will go so far as to say that whatever remedial training is developed members should be required to attend it on their own time, without pay. If they don't have the dedication to do something like that then perhaps the RCMP doesn't need them. These are just my thoughts and I know from past experience that something like that would be met with strong resistance.

I have the highest respect for the RCMP but I know first hand what kind of damage can be done to an institution due to the actions of a few. The RCMP should not have to lower their standards to meet recruiting quotas or anything else. Applicants should be expected to raise their standards in order to meet or exceed those of the RCMP or they should be shown the door. Anyone like Sandboe that makes it through the system and does something like what he did should be thrown to the lions and then unceremoniously drummed out the door.......which appears to be happening........and rightly so!

Anyway, my opinion FWIW.

[Jwood 456]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I do not paint all RCMP members with the same Sandboe brush as I know that it is simply not true.

If the talking heads in the RCMP have not already done so, I think that at this point in time they should consider some sort of remedial training to try to stop the bleeding that recent events have caused and to help maintain (re-establish for some people) a high level of confidence in the general public.

Anyone like Sandboe that makes it through the system and does something like what he did should be thrown to the lions and then unceremoniously drummed out the door.......which appears to be happening........and rightly so!

Anyway, my opinion FWIW.

X2! The media seems to just mention just the Sanboe and Vancouver tasering like cases and give the public a poorer impression about the rest of the RCMP task force. I believe the RCMP members such as Sandboe and the ones that tasered the polish man in Vancouver certainly shouldn't be getting off scott free. I am very confident that the vast majority of the RCMP officers are good hearted and motivated people. I have encountered many F and W officers that are very good natured and have made alot of positive conversation with me as well.

[Jwood 456]

I got off as negative towards the amount of traffic enforcement police officers in the county I currently live in at first. I realize now that it is a good thing IMHO. I remember 5 years back, I would be riding along at the speed limit and many people on the highway would wizz right by us and we almost got rear ended by "brainwaves" going 140km/h while speeding up from our intersection. Today, I find it a very rare sight to see any one wizzing by us while i'm going the speed limit, which gives me the impression that our highways are alot safer thanks to the extra amount of traffic enforecement we have.

Seeing since the highways seem to be under good control now, and we also seem to have enough traffic officers to easilly stop seriouse criminals fleeing in vehicles, I think our tax dollars should be spent on more officers trained to help prevent serious crimes on the municipality streets. The Edmonton area apparently has one of the highest murder rates in Canada. Heres some evidene to back it up.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/03/04/t...a-murder-rate/