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  #31  
Old 09-22-2018, 06:35 AM
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I was on the island near Comox a few weeks ago and prices were the same as Edmonton. WOW ! Do they not need to truck it there via ferry and such ?

Yesterday in Edmonton, Petro Can , Shell and Esso were at 1.22, Costco was at 1.13 ! A couple days ago, 1.29 and 1.13

Only two words describe most gas stations, ( price gouging ) !

When will the people ever stand up to these stations and just not buy from them when they raise the price. Shop around a little and buy at the cheapest place in the area that your in .
Download gas buddy app to your phone and a few taps later you find the cheapest place in your area. Just that easy.

If everyone bought at the cheapest place then the others would have to drop their price or they would have to close their doors .
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  #32  
Old 09-22-2018, 07:11 AM
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Two days ago I met a buddy for lunch. The restaurant is in the same immediate area as a Shell gas station.
When I went for lunch the price for fuel at Shell was $1.24 and after lunch one hour later, it was $1.35........

WHAT A RIP.....
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  #33  
Old 09-22-2018, 10:28 AM
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Gotta love the progressiveness of Edmonton. In a city that can process about 320000 barrels/day of oil, the price at the pump continues to skyrocket. I just took a look at Gas Buddy to compare the rise in fuel prices between Edmonton and Medicine Hat in the past year, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Edmonton is up 42.5 cents/L over last year, and Medicine Hat is up 16.5 cents/L. There must be a huge road tax tacked on to get the fuel to the pumps all the way from the East side of the city. Nope, no gouging going on at all.

Vancouver is up 14.6, Victoria 14.2, Toronto 12, etc. That being said, Calgary is up about 38.2, Regina 32.6. I guess that the prairie provinces have been paying way too little at the pumps, time to play catch-up.

Last edited by HVA7mm; 09-22-2018 at 10:37 AM.
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  #34  
Old 09-23-2018, 11:13 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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HVA7, you have "hit the nail on the head" Big Oil uses every excuse in book to gouge. They deceided Edmonton drivers were getting too much of a break for living near refineries, needed to equal the pain to All Canadians. Then let them Americans have 75 cent/liter gas on our discounted Alberta oil even after shipping it few thousand kilometers to Texas.
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  #35  
Old 09-23-2018, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
HVA7, you have "hit the nail on the head" Big Oil uses every excuse in book to gouge. They deceided Edmonton drivers were getting too much of a break for living near refineries, needed to equal the pain to All Canadians. Then let them Americans have 75 cent/liter gas on our discounted Alberta oil even after shipping it few thousand kilometers to Texas.
cnooc announce plans for a refinery in alberta .
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  #36  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:10 PM
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Gas in North Battleford SK today $102.4 at Co-op. Now $101.9 at Fasgas

I didn't know there was a refinery there
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  #37  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf View Post
HVA7, you have "hit the nail on the head" Big Oil uses every excuse in book to gouge. They deceided Edmonton drivers were getting too much of a break for living near refineries, needed to equal the pain to All Canadians. Then let them Americans have 75 cent/liter gas on our discounted Alberta oil even after shipping it few thousand kilometers to Texas.
Do they even use excuses any more? It is now and always has been nothing but greed bordering on what has become legal corruption. Look at the price/barrel now (about 67.00) compared to a few years ago when it was about 130.00/barrel yet they charge the same high price at the pumps. They can screw citizens of the province as much and as often as they like so they do, the absolute worst thing about big corporations with no competition.
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  #38  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:45 PM
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The only way to stop the price gouging is to pick the worst Company and everyone has to, completely stop patronizing them. This will kill that companies marketing, (Big Money). But we have to pick 1 company at a time and everyone has to boycott that company. Say 1st ESSO, after a couple of months SHELL, then later PETRO Canada. After the first one I'll bet they are all towing the line. Remember it's not about who has the refineries, It's who can sell to the individual customers.
E-mail your friends and Post on Facebook, BOYCOTT ESSO, until prices come down.
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  #39  
Old 09-23-2018, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sashi View Post
The only way to stop the price gouging is to pick the worst Company and everyone has to, completely stop patronizing them. This will kill that companies marketing, (Big Money). But we have to pick 1 company at a time and everyone has to boycott that company. Say 1st ESSO, after a couple of months SHELL, then later PETRO Canada. After the first one I'll bet they are all towing the line. Remember it's not about who has the refineries, It's who can sell to the individual customers.
E-mail your friends and Post on Facebook, BOYCOTT ESSO, until prices come down.
What fair profit margin should we use as a floor for initiating boycotts?

Exxon. Profit margin 5.53%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/XOM:US

Suncor/Petro Canada. Profit margin 9.41%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SU:CN

Shell. profit margin. 6.23%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/RDSA:NA

McDonalds. Profit margin 27.95%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/MCD:US

Home Depot. Profit margin 11.51%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/HD:US

Johnson & Johnson. Profit margin 18.98%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/JNJ:US

Pfizer. Profit margin 28.75%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/PFE:US

CN Rail. Profit margin 36.08%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/CNR:CN

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  #40  
Old 09-24-2018, 08:22 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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Sundance just tell Exxon and Shell to raise American prices to those in Canada, their profit margins will be same as other Big Dogs in Industries!
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  #41  
Old 09-24-2018, 08:24 AM
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Fill up asap---she'll be going up at least .10c/L shortly
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  #42  
Old 09-24-2018, 09:22 AM
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If companies in Sask which have historically been 15-20c/L higher than Alberta can sell gas for 30c cheaper there is a lot of room for making money. They are not just breaking even they are not selling it at a loss to sell chocolate bars they are still making money.
I love the boycott idea but all of Canada needs to get on board. The problem is all the big companies will collude and start charging twice as much and saying they have no fuel available so we will all be screwed anyway. Then some idiot will put his hands in the air and say 'supply and demand'
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #43  
Old 09-24-2018, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
What fair profit margin should we use as a floor for initiating boycotts?

Exxon. Profit margin 5.53%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/XOM:US

Suncor/Petro Canada. Profit margin 9.41%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/SU:CN

Shell. profit margin. 6.23%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/RDSA:NA

McDonalds. Profit margin 27.95%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/MCD:US

Home Depot. Profit margin 11.51%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/HD:US

Johnson & Johnson. Profit margin 18.98%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/JNJ:US

Pfizer. Profit margin 28.75%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/PFE:US

CN Rail. Profit margin 36.08%. https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/CNR:CN

And you believe their malarkey? I just drive down the street and and look at the gas prices. The majors all go up the same amount at the same time. A refinery in the states does some maintenance, our prices go up, the American prices remain constant. But if you wish to bury your head in the sand and say all is well then , so be it.
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  #44  
Old 09-24-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
If companies in Sask which have historically been 15-20c/L higher than Alberta can sell gas for 30c cheaper there is a lot of room for making money. They are not just breaking even they are not selling it at a loss to sell chocolate bars they are still making money.
I love the boycott idea but all of Canada needs to get on board. The problem is all the big companies will collude and start charging twice as much and saying they have no fuel available so we will all be screwed anyway. Then some idiot will put his hands in the air and say 'supply and demand'
Carbon tax in Alberta is 7 cents a litre.

There is no collusion. If you think otherwise report it as it is highly illegal. If someone complains they are making unfair profits absolutely no one has provided a shread of proof.

I would love to get stuff for free. I would love if someone would give me discounted gas subsidized by the government like in Venezuela. Are oil companies making money. I hope so. Otherwise they would go out of business. Do I think they are making unfair profits? The facts say no.

Also Trump is starting a fight with Saudi on raising production. Russia is highly leveraged to pester US is this arena. Iran production is falling. Venezuela production is in shambles. US shale sweet spots being drilled and can’t keep up.

Expect a steep climb in oil prices. Let the roller coaster begin again.

Invest in oil and gas if you think unfair profits are being had. Although you should read my earlier post.
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  #45  
Old 09-24-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Sashi View Post
And you believe their malarkey? I just drive down the street and and look at the gas prices. The majors all go up the same amount at the same time. A refinery in the states does some maintenance, our prices go up, the American prices remain constant. But if you wish to bury your head in the sand and say all is well then , so be it.
You need to understand the inter connectedness of a global and north American commodity price and supply chain. Lots of details on the net.

I will try to summarize.

Gasoline is a commodity like soyabeans, lentils, gold, silver, wheat, corn etc.

Then there are costs to move stuff around that is factored into the commodity markets. When one area doesn't have enough product or there is a shortage in manufacturing there is a ripple across the market. Just because corn is grown next door doesn't mean the buyer next door buys it cheaper than the commodity price set by supply and demand.

Yes you can blame deregulation on this impact however you can't blame companies themselves.

Companies are not making money hand over fist. For their size they make modest profits when they can and eek out more if possible to cover the down turns. Oil and gas is not an easy upstream business. Downstream has some challenges as well with trying to guess what is the right mix of products to make in order to make the most money. They have fewer risks however. As a business...they all need to make money to survive.

Now...as for collusion. There is nothing secret about gasoline prices. They have a giant sign that states their price right in front of the station.

Any competing gas station can look out and see the competitors price. They can based upon this visual do anything they want to their price. Lower it, keep it the same or raise it. In the absence of any change in the wholesale cost of the gasoline in their tanks they can sell it at what ever price they want to try and make as much money as they can. As a consumer you can feel they should give it to you as cheap as possible. Don't blame you. I want everything cheap also. Seriously. We all do as consumers.

This is where consumers as mentioned by others can impact the prices. Shop the cheapest when ever possible. Stations need business. Raise to much...people move. Too low...impacts profitability.

For collusion to occur...two businesses need to get together and say...I will raise my price if you raise yours. That my friend is a huge no no and rightly should end in fines and even jail time.
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  #46  
Old 09-24-2018, 10:28 AM
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todays regular unleaded rack price for Edmonton.

https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/rack-...k-pricing.aspx

$0.856

Taxes for gasoline at $1.30/litre are

GST $0.065
Carbon tax just went up this year. $0.0673

Provincial Excise tax $0.1973
Federal Excise tax $0.10

$0.4296 taxes

Profit per litre leaves about 2 cents profit for the retailer.
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  #47  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Justfishin73 View Post
Fill up asap---she'll be going up at least .10c/L shortly
any reason for the spike ?
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  #48  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:14 AM
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any reason for the spike ?
American owned Mexican waters oil rig off line for a couple hours, we need to cover the slack with $98,762,334,123.42 in downtime costs.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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  #49  
Old 09-24-2018, 11:22 AM
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I find it amazing that the collusion malarkey is still going around.
It's been discussed for years....yet no one has ever been able to prove it.
Deserves to be put in the Area 51 bin.
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  #50  
Old 09-24-2018, 12:25 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
todays regular unleaded rack price for Edmonton.

https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/rack-...k-pricing.aspx

$0.856

Taxes for gasoline at $1.30/litre are

GST $0.065
Carbon tax just went up this year. $0.0673

Provincial Excise tax $0.1973
Federal Excise tax $0.10

$0.4296 taxes

Profit per litre leaves about 2 cents profit for the retailer.
Understandable, but what I don't understand is why the rack price for Edmonton is $0.856 and Calgary is $0.88, while Toronto is around $0.75 and Vancouver is $0.889. Is the cost of doing business that high in Edmonton/Calgary compared to Toronto/Vancouver?

A year ago the rack pricing for this week was $0.556 for Edmonton, $0.58 for Calgary, $0.661 for Toronto and $0.741 for Vancouver.
That's a year over year rack price increase of 54% for Edmonton and 51.7% for Calgary. While Toronto saw an increase of 13.6% and Vancouver around 20%.
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  #51  
Old 09-24-2018, 12:58 PM
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Understandable, but what I don't understand is why the rack price for Edmonton is $0.856 and Calgary is $0.88, while Toronto is around $0.75 and Vancouver is $0.889. Is the cost of doing business that high in Edmonton/Calgary compared to Toronto/Vancouver?

A year ago the rack pricing for this week was $0.556 for Edmonton, $0.58 for Calgary, $0.661 for Toronto and $0.741 for Vancouver.
That's a year over year rack price increase of 54% for Edmonton and 51.7% for Calgary. While Toronto saw an increase of 13.6% and Vancouver around 20%.
Volume most likely.
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  #52  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:04 PM
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Price in DT TO is less than in Calgary.

Whatsup with that?
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  #53  
Old 09-24-2018, 01:47 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
Volume most likely.
Have the volumes changed that much in one year, probably not. I believe that the Chicago rack price has a substantial influence on the Canadian rack pricing, that being said there has only been an increase of about 15% on the Chicago rack price over the last 12 months.
That's right in line with the increases in Eastern Canada and the West Coast. That makes perfect sense considering the vast oilfields in Ontario and the lower mainland.

Maybe the Canadian petroleum producers that supply the prairie provinces can have a petroleum jelly dispenser installed next to the card reader at the fuel pumps. That way when we get bent over it won't hurt near as much. Since petroleum jelly is essentially a byproduct, it shouldn't add much of a premium to the pump price either.

We all know that the retailers have a fairly negligible profit margin based on rack pricing, so who sets/controls/manipulates/inflates the rack pricing in the prairie provinces? It couldn't be the oil companies could it?
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  #54  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:52 PM
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Saskatchewan river crossing $2.09
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  #55  
Old 09-24-2018, 03:38 PM
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Have the volumes changed that much in one year, probably not. I believe that the Chicago rack price has a substantial influence on the Canadian rack pricing, that being said there has only been an increase of about 15% on the Chicago rack price over the last 12 months.
That's right in line with the increases in Eastern Canada and the West Coast. That makes perfect sense considering the vast oilfields in Ontario and the lower mainland.

Maybe the Canadian petroleum producers that supply the prairie provinces can have a petroleum jelly dispenser installed next to the card reader at the fuel pumps. That way when we get bent over it won't hurt near as much. Since petroleum jelly is essentially a byproduct, it shouldn't add much of a premium to the pump price either.

We all know that the retailers have a fairly negligible profit margin based on rack pricing, so who sets/controls/manipulates/inflates the rack pricing in the prairie provinces? It couldn't be the oil companies could it?
Rack price is set and then there is a delivery charge on that.

You mention current Chicago rack is $2.983

Adjust for gallons to litres = US $0.788
Adjusted for currency US to Cdn = $1.02

Then we add on taxes as mentioned over $0.40/litre. We appear to be paying below Chicago.

I pointed out how much oil companies are making. Can't explain that any clearer. Do you want oil companies to make no profit? All the major oil company's financials are listed. If you show me one company that is making an obscene rate of return I will either join you in asking why at the same time consider investing...but more likely asking why.

I showed company data that proves they are making far less profit margin than McDonald's, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Home Depot, CNRail.

We are not Venezuela so please let me know what I am missing. What companies are being unfair based upon facts please. Not just common annoyance about wanting to get something cheap. I know we all want a deal...I am no different.
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  #56  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:02 PM
HVA7mm HVA7mm is offline
 
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Have the volumes changed that much in one year, probably not. I believe that the Chicago rack price has a substantial influence on the Canadian rack pricing, that being said there has only been an increase of about 15% on the Chicago rack price over the last 12 months.
That's right in line with the increases in Eastern Canada and the West Coast. That makes perfect sense considering the vast oilfields in Ontario and the lower mainland.

Maybe the Canadian petroleum producers that supply the prairie provinces can have a petroleum jelly dispenser installed next to the card reader at the fuel pumps. That way when we get bent over it won't hurt near as much. Since petroleum jelly is essentially a byproduct, it shouldn't add much of a premium to the pump price either.

We all know that the retailers have a fairly negligible profit margin based on rack pricing, so who sets/controls/manipulates/inflates the rack pricing in the prairie provinces? It couldn't be the oil companies could it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
I pointed out how much oil companies are making. Can't explain that any clearer. Do you want oil companies to make no profit? All the major oil company's financials are listed. If you show me one company that is making an obscene rate of return I will either join you in asking why at the same time consider investing...but more likely asking why.

I showed company data that proves they are making far less profit margin than McDonald's, Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, Home Depot, CNRail.

We are not Venezuela so please let me know what I am missing. What companies are being unfair based upon facts please. Not just common annoyance about wanting to get something cheap. I know we all want a deal...I am no different.
I'm not refuting the overall financials of the O&G companies, as their financials are readily available. I also have friends that work directly for major producers both in Calgary and in Houston, and know that the profit margins have been increasingly narrow in the last 5 years especially in Canada.

I think that most on this board, myself included, are more interested in the regional anomalies in the rack prices i.e. "the prairies". The answer that you had provided was "Volume most likely". Would you mind elaborating, as I think that everyone has a pretty good idea about supply and demand, but the local inflated rack pricing doesn't appear to be justified.

Don't get me wrong, I like many others are invested in the major players, but my dividends and rate of return certainly don't reflect the extra 35-45% that I am currently paying regionally for their product.
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  #57  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by HVA7mm View Post
I'm not refuting the overall financials of the O&G companies, as their financials are readily available. I also have friends that work directly for major producers both in Calgary and in Houston, and know that the profit margins have been increasingly narrow in the last 5 years especially in Canada.

I think that most on this board, myself included, are more interested in the regional anomalies in the rack prices i.e. "the prairies". The answer that you had provided was "Volume most likely". Would you mind elaborating, as I think that everyone has a pretty good idea about supply and demand, but the local inflated rack pricing doesn't appear to be justified.

Don't get me wrong, I like many others are invested in the major players, but my dividends and rate of return certainly don't reflect the extra 35-45% that I am currently paying regionally for their product.
I am not an expert however what I know is Vancouver and Toronto with their population consume far more gasoline than us. Creating a volume discount. There is also regional marketing and transportation considerations.

Your statement above regarding a bump gasoline prices between jurisdictions sounds more like a request for Toronto to field some of the pricing burden.

However I am not sure the same players, nor the same suppliers are feeding the markets in Toronto versus Calgary/Edmonton. Vancouver also gets some product from Washington as well as batch pipelining from Alberta.

Therefore hard to say an apples to apples comparison.
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  #58  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:37 PM
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According to the articles in the Calgary Herald today, the breakdown of year over year price jump is partially explained by an increased margin of 9cents/litre over last year by the oil companies. The carbon tax increase, year over year is only 2 cents and the remainder is the result of the change in the price of oil and exchange rate.
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  #59  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:44 PM
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$1.50/later at Arrow Lake in B.C. On the weekend. Just south of the border at Osoyoos it was $3.35/gallon. About 74 cents per litre. Didn’t see much oilfield activity there!?

Last edited by trigger7mm; 09-24-2018 at 04:45 PM. Reason: More info.
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  #60  
Old 09-24-2018, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jadham View Post
According to the articles in the Calgary Herald today, the breakdown of year over year price jump is partially explained by an increased margin of 9cents/litre over last year by the oil companies. The carbon tax increase, year over year is only 2 cents and the remainder is the result of the change in the price of oil and exchange rate.


What he said.
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