Why the 223 Rem should be a legal big game round

[Talking moose]

Curious if a .223 has enough energy to smash a shoulder blade after going through hide and a few inches of muscle first...(if the shot is not perfect or the animal moves..)

[trigger7mm]

Personally, I think it is a retarded idea to allow people to hunt with a .223, because there are way too many people out there that would be wounding deer with less than ideal shots. Just because someone can hit a target, make it right on actual flesh and bone! .223 dude is going to see that big buck walking over a hill at 300 yards, and is going to start blazing away. In the hands of a very good shot, under very good conditions, then yes, but in the hands of the average Joe, no way.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

A psychologist would think he had a self esteem issue. That would make two of us with the same thought

I'd be impressed if you remember tomorrow what you think today

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I'd be impressed if you remember tomorrow what you think today

Throw enough crap against the wall and some of it's gonna stick. Thanks for the help.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Salavee

A psychologist would think he had a self esteem issue. That would make two of us with the same thought

I get a laugh out of guys that have the urge to brag. Is he a good hunter? All you have to do is ask him.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I get a laugh out of guys that have the urge to brag. Is he a good hunter? All you have to do is ask him.

You two make a good couple. Lose the argument then resort to insults

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You two make a good couple. Lose the argument then resort to insults

What argument? For that matter what insult? Ya I like salavee. Pretty standup guy with nothing to prove. Makes him alright in my books.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You two make a good couple. Lose the argument then resort to insults

Add delusional as well .. Best to "Atta Boy" him.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

What argument? For that matter what insult? Ya I like salavee. Pretty standup guy with nothing to prove. Makes him alright in my books.

You've still got your pout on over the Creedmoor thread, you just piped in here to be ignorant because you sires he'll never posted anything pertaining to the topic.

And you salavee, you're the last guy who should be talking about delusional, lol!

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You've still got your pout on over the Creedmoor thread, you just piped in here to be ignorant because you sires he'll never posted anything pertaining to the topic.

And you salavee, you're the last guy who should be talking about delusional, lol!

Nope not pouting at all. Your crystal ball should show this. Could careless just don't care for bragging is all and people that know it all. At the risk of getting suspended I don't mind calling it how I see it.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Nope not pouting at all. Your crystal ball should show this. Could careless just don't care for bragging is all and people that know it all. At the risk of getting suspended I don't mind calling it how I see it.

I don't mind calling it how I see it either, it obvious you don't like to listen to people who are informed.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I don't mind calling it how I see it either, it obvious you don't like to listen to people who are informed.

Listen quite well to someone that is informed but I do have the ability to separate the bs from the buckwheat. Curious what makes you and chuck more informed then the others?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Listen quite well to someone that is informed but I do have the ability to separate the bs from the buckwheat. Curious what makes you and chuck more informed then the others?

I was referring to 338rem and southernman, guys with actual experience with killing deer with a 223. You confuse backing up knowledge with examples of expireince with bragging. I can't speak for Chuck, but I get informed through experience, and in recent years google has helped.

You get upset and ignorant just because we differ in opinion, and rather than listen to the people with actual experience on the subject you block the facts in order to stay in line with your beliefs.

[Suzukisam]

I know what your saying Chuck. When my kids were young I took a 243 put a muzzle break on it and a limb saver. I think I get more kick off my 22lr. Just make sure they where ear muffs. My daughter could fire that all day long. I now use it at range and love the accuracy.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I was referring to 338rem and southernman, guys with actual experience with killing deer with a 223. You confuse backing up knowledge with examples of expireince with bragging. I can't speak for Chuck, but I get informed through experience, and in recent years google has helped.

You get upset and ignorant just because we differ in opinion, and rather than listen to the people with actual experience on the subject you block the facts in order to stay in line with your beliefs.

Now you're starting to make some sense. I kinda thought that's where a lot of your experience gibberish was coming from.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Salavee

Now you're starting to make some sense. I kinda thought that's where a lot of your experience gibberish was coming from.

Tell me again how the 6.5 Creedmoor isn't comparable to the Swede or how it's not suitable for deer but a 243 or a 6mm is.

Salavee once you catch up to what's happened in the past few decades you'll be able to develope an objective opinion on the topic at hand, until then I'll just accept you for who you are.

[Don_Parsons]

A couple brings their kids to the Rocky Range, 3 boys and a girl.

The whole family is into shooting sports, lots of different rifles, they build their own units and bring them out to sight in through the season.

They are hard core hunting folk. The kids like the land cannons. Ha.

This will be year 4 or 5 for them, the oldest is now 13 if I recall.

He will be shooting some kind of Wildcat 6.5, 7mm, 30 cal since reaching out there puts a Grin on his face.

His little brothers and sister enjoy the small rifles, I'm sure the day will come when they follow the foot steps of big daddy and their Ma.

A in breakible family that do things together makes life grand.

A fellow at the range had his daughter with him the other day, she just graduated into a 7mm08 with no MB, man,,, could that Gal shoot.

Another perfect day at the range today, lots of hot barrel time and reloading ammo from the bench.

Couldn't of picked a better day to enjoy lifes Little pleasures

[Norwest Alta]

My apologies. I misinterpreted your wealth of knowledge as bragging.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

My apologies. I misinterpreted your wealth of knowledge as bragging.

It's your lack of comprehension that must be causing the misinterpretation, all good.

[last minute]

WOW it made it to seven pages

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

You've still got your pout on over the Creedmoor thread, you just piped in here to be ignorant because you sires he'll never posted anything pertaining to the topic.

And you salavee, you're the last guy who should be talking about delusional, lol!

Well you know what Kurt I couldn't care what you use, want to use or even care how you use it. What has burnt my ass about you goes back to that shotgun reloading press I was giving away that you just had to have when that other guy wanted it. I got it packaged up and down to Edmonton but you were to lazy to come get it. Fortunately someone else did want it and did come get it. Not a big deal and a lesson has been learned.

[fordtruckin]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I got no doubt that the 223 is capable. The problem is how do you stop people from using it beyond its capabilities. Kurt has a 300 yard limit on his new whatchamacallit. The guys hunting with the smaller guns gonna put the same limitations on themselves? Probably not. They'll see their booner fork horn at 600 and have a go at it. What happens when they see that elk out there in the field?

Where does the legal limations start and stop? Can only use a 223 from 0-150 yards on deer and antelope? Can only use a 223 on deer and antelope?

Answer me this, how do you stop people from taking 1000 yard shots with any caliber?? Anyone who has that 380 bull walk out in front of them at a grand will be tempted to take that shot despite using a .243 or 338 lapua. It all comes down to ethics. Is it legal to take that 1000 yard shot? Yes is t ethical? For the 99.9% no. No different when using a .223. Is t legal to shoot elk with? Yes. Is it ethical? Probably not so much.

Originally Posted by angery jonn

And read what he said in the end...

And to answer your question about how many people would be buying a 223 if it was aloud. The real question is how many Cabelas gun counter gurus would be recommending it due to the low recoil and cheap ammo... I would be willing to bet a lot of people would buy them.

That’s quite an assumption unless your insinuating that Albertan hunters are a dumb... again perfectly legal in Montana tonuse a .223 I’ve never ran into anyone using one, only talked with a handful who actuallly have. As most hunt elk they go with a bigger caliber to avoid having a rifle for each species.

Originally Posted by last minute

WOW it made it to seven pages

No doubt!

Either way I plan to use the .223 on deer here in Montana with my suppressor. I’ll revive the thread when I do and let all the nay sayers know how it didn’t work and give them the contact info of all the guys who heard my gullet zipping by their heads since I was running a can.... bahahaah

[southernman]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Curious if a .223 has enough energy to smash a shoulder blade after going through hide and a few inches of muscle first...(if the shot is not perfect or the animal moves..)

Everybody else is to busy bickering, so I give you my thoughts.
I qualify that, by saying I've never shot a deer with the .223, however .222 many hundreds of times.
you've not given, much to work with here, what bullet, distance, sized animal.
Threw the shoulder, is one of my preferred shot's, even with the .222, animal size, distance dependant, your aiming to break/shatter the shoulder, and drive bullet and bone fragments, into the top of the lungs and threw the major blood vessels with in the chest, ( yep not popular train of thought with north American shooters)

I found that on small to med sized deer, Lets call that 200lbs and down, yes a quality soft point, will make it threw the shoulder bone, and into the organs and blood vessels in the chest,
If your just going to shoot the yearling doe/hind down the back paddock for meat, by all means use a .223, if your chasing the buck of a life time, or big solid game ie elk, pick something more suited to the task.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

I shoot a whack of 223 every year. This thread has got me thinking.

Regarding bullet choice, I have 55gr fmj's and 55gr Ballistic Tips in good supply.
The fmj's would not be legal. Would my Ballistic Tips be a good choice for deer?

It's a soft varmint bullet and I wouldn't. No more than I'd use a 55gr BT out of a .243.

I'm a big fan of the Barnes in the .22's. It's fantastic.

Originally Posted by Suzukisam

Yup that’s right. Now go ask your dad or grandpa if he ever incision moose to be a draw with wait time of 3 to 6 years. Look to the future and not the past times are changing and hunters are the minority. Bet you never thought they would try bring back registration again.

This is untrue. We have these wait times because the number of hunters has grown significantly (and our game management is dilusional).

Hunters have always been the minority.

Society is just more polarized.

The .223 has nothing to do with any of it.

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Big Sky

I shoot a whack of 223 every year. This thread has got me thinking.

Regarding bullet choice, I have 55gr fmj's and 55gr Ballistic Tips in good supply.
The fmj's would not be legal. Would my Ballistic Tips be a good choice for deer?

Lmao, this should be good

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by chuck

You know, you follow me around biting my ankles enough that it’s gett a bit annoying. Do you have an opinion on the subject or just me?

He is certainly not alone chucky

[JBE]

Have any of the main combatants here ever shot anything with the 223 or creedmore here other than paper??

[Norwest Alta]

Like i said Ford I got no doubt it is capable. As far as ethics a guy don't have to go very far to find questionable ethics imo. You're absolutely right that there is always gonna be someone that'll try the ol hail Mary, doesn't matter much what they're shooting someone will push it to the limits. Human nature I guess. As far as someone shooting a 223 more is a false hood. Got 3 of them and I'd be surprised if I've shot 100 rnds thru them all together since I've got them.
I do shoot my 338's and 25's fairly regularly though.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Well you know what Kurt I couldn't care what you use, want to use or even care how you use it. What has burnt my ass about you goes back to that shotgun reloading press I was giving away that you just had to have when that other guy wanted it. I got it packaged up and down to Edmonton but you were to lazy to come get it. Fortunately someone else did want it and did come get it. Not a big deal and a lesson has been learned.

Hey man, I appreciate what you did and trust me I wanted the press, a wife, two kids, 9 employees and life got in my way. It's not about being lazy, it's about getting the time, and by the time I remembered it was at your Dads place I figured it was gone.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by JBE

Have any of the main combatants here ever shot anything with the 223 or creedmore here other than paper??

Would a bull elk with a 260rem qualify?