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  #91  
Old 09-19-2011, 05:28 PM
HighWildnFree HighWildnFree is offline
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Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
And the projectile isnt designed to reliably take game out at that distance....
No? Well ok, explain that to me. Obviously youre talking about the arrow now, and not the bow. What part of an arrow fails to function at longer range? And what is the magic distance that it fails at?
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  #92  
Old 09-19-2011, 05:41 PM
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Default thanx HWF

appreciate the flame.

Gonna take the daughter out to look for elk now. I'll join you later in the evening.

Please stay on your high horsey there.
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  #93  
Old 09-19-2011, 06:06 PM
HighWildnFree HighWildnFree is offline
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Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
appreciate the flame.

Gonna take the daughter out to look for elk now. I'll join you later in the evening.

Please stay on your high horsey there.
Flame nothin.... Its a question and I meant it. You made a statement, I asked for clarification on your statement cuz I dont understand. Seems pretty simple.
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  #94  
Old 09-19-2011, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
An arrow at 117 yards is going how fast?
Cat
borrow someones chrony...and set it at (say 100) yards.
the sunshade and supports on the chrono about the same size as the vitals of a deer, getting a couple of quivers worth of readings should be no prob...the machine shouldnt be destroyed and see how fast the arrow is travelling at the same time.
Id say that the shooter is ready to hunt at that distance, if 20 samples are availble and the chrony goes back in one peice.
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  #95  
Old 09-19-2011, 07:07 PM
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Trying not to judge, but....
Animals can move at any time. and the longer the range. the greater the era will be.
I guess some people have to learn the hard way. I did.
It just sucks ,that some animals will be lost. But the hunters hearts, will get broken sooner or later. and they might change there minds.
I am speaking from experience, been there done that, not going to do it again!
good luck hunting~
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  #96  
Old 09-19-2011, 09:28 PM
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You never shoot at a game animal hoping to hit. When you squeeze the trigger on your release you should know,without a doubt that what your shooting at is dead. Sadly some mistakes do happen, but the closer you are to the animal the less likely you are to screw up. Remember pick your spot.That could be a tuft of hair or a crease behind the shoulder. If the animal is so far away that all your shooting is the side of it then its too far. Practice long- kill close, works for me.
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  #97  
Old 09-19-2011, 10:30 PM
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Default Im back so here we go.

HWF , sorry if I don’t have time on my hands to read up a thread, blow up 7 arrows cause I have nothing better to do, but really hope it makes me a ‘pro’ in the eyes of the other keyboard jockies here. Let me try to non, crap an answer for you so I’ll smart write this one as best I can.


The point of my original post was really to try to create or explore what kind of community norm we have in an ethical sense regarding my question. I believe I’ve achieved that.. All societies establish some kind of structure of ethics, which essentially will be an area where we will all generally agree upon (the majority). I think we can all agree on some ethical guidelines for the majority here, perhaps I should have clarified that.Its pretty important that we at least try to do that here from time to time as we have many many newbies coming here trying to get a lay of the land. It has already been stated by most experienced hunters here that they do not condone shooting with the current equipment passed the 70 to 100 yard area. This is sound advice and my hope is that the rookie ‘im gonna rent a bow’ hunting newbies (which we have all seen come on here and ask the most ignorant of questions), will read up on this and take advice of his/her peers here and act accordingly. We have a responsibility as a hunting community to help promote the concept of “Fair Chase”.
Those people (yourself included) that simply take the opportunity to tell us how great you superior hunting-shooting skills are (and hey, maybe they are, maybe you’re the most experienced hunter and hunting guide who’s currently burning up the season testing out arrow theories on the internet that I know…) really aren’t impressing us or doing our community a favor.
What’s ethical here? Hmmm well… I love it when people trump out the ‘to each his own’ argument. I’ve seen that one when we talk about long distance rifles, quadding, trail cams, crossbows ect… it’s a cop out and a crap response. Every community must explore and define what’s acceptable behavior and not, then come to some agreement on the ‘right or wrong of it’ … ethics in short. If we all do our own thing, we’ll soon allow trail cam linked crossbows that fire and snap a picture! Sounds awesome eh? Nope not for me or any of us here. Or we’ll condone super long range archery shots FOR ALL and have porcupine deer.. yuck!
Rem300 and any of you others that have been ‘biting your tongue’ … hey great, you grew up all robin hood and I don’t doubt that you can make the shot and have.. good on you. DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS IS THE NORM??? OR THE EXCEPTION??
If we look at the whole archery community… we’ll all agree that you guys are the big time minority. I don’t care if you all role together. Your bragging about stands the chance of influencing what newbies see as the norm…. bad idea. Bad idea indeed. Very very bad idea!!

HWF…. Archery equipment is limited by the following: I will state the obvious
- arrows are affected by wind and stuff you probably won’t see that may be in the way… ever hit grass? Twigs? Ever have the wind affect you?? Your eye will not detect these things (go read an eye chart at 80 yards… that’s your next experiment.. it wont cost you 7 arrows).
- I doubt arrows will consistently have decent velocity that far down to target, but I may be wrong here… I’d love it if someone could enlighten me.
- You may have super hunter guide arms of steel to hold on a pie plate sized target till the conditions are all right and not flinch cause a micro inch change would result in porcu-deer….. but I doubt it. You iron arms guys are the minority.. ethics… norm for group… majority agree.. that’s how we establish them.
- You can’t get the projectile there quick enough to produce a RELIABLE kill shot. Animals move, the conditions for such a shot would be rare, and c’mon. You seriously can’t control those variables reasonably. You can’t.
- I could be totally wrong here…. But a huge part of archery is mastering the art of closing with your game enough to make a reliable kill shot.



Yes, there will always be exceptions, just as there would be exceptions to ideas such as ‘we should never kill babies’ or whatever ethical conundrum you chose to cough up. All of those exceptions are invariable IN THE MINORITY. Hence we would not want to establish norms there…… kind of kills the norm part. Eh?

BTW… I started out as a rant.. by definition.. not much rational thought involved in these! Cut me some slack.

Rem300 I like your post simply cause you spent a great deal of time telling how much to train.

What advice would you give to the average archer on these shots?

I’d say don’t bother.


done!

Ps… the daughter and I could not convince the bull to come and play… nice quiet night. Next time.

Last edited by bessiedog; 09-19-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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  #98  
Old 09-19-2011, 11:05 PM
Justin.C Justin.C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
HWF , sorry if I don’t have time on my hands to read up a thread, blow up 7 arrows cause I have nothing better to do, but really hope it makes me a ‘pro’ in the eyes of the other keyboard jockies here. Let me try to non, crap an answer for you so I’ll smart write this one as best I can.


The point of my original post was really to try to create or explore what kind of community norm we have in an ethical sense regarding my question. I believe I’ve achieved that.. All societies establish some kind of structure of ethics, which essentially will be an area where we will all generally agree upon (the majority). I think we can all agree on some ethical guidelines for the majority here, perhaps I should have clarified that.Its pretty important that we at least try to do that here from time to time as we have many many newbies coming here trying to get a lay of the land. It has already been stated by most experienced hunters here that they do not condone shooting with the current equipment passed the 70 to 100 yard area. This is sound advice and my hope is that the rookie ‘im gonna rent a bow’ hunting newbies (which we have all seen come on here and ask the most ignorant of questions), will read up on this and take advice of his/her peers here and act accordingly. We have a responsibility as a hunting community to help promote the concept of “Fair Chase”.
Those people (yourself included) that simply take the opportunity to tell us how great you superior hunting-shooting skills are (and hey, maybe they are, maybe you’re the most experienced hunter and hunting guide who’s currently burning up the season testing out arrow theories on the internet that I know…) really aren’t impressing us or doing our community a favor.
What’s ethical here? Hmmm well… I love it when people trump out the ‘to each his own’ argument. I’ve seen that one when we talk about long distance rifles, quadding, trail cams, crossbows ect… it’s a cop out and a crap response. Every community must explore and define what’s acceptable behavior and not, then come to some agreement on the ‘right or wrong of it’ … ethics in short. If we all do our own thing, we’ll soon allow trail cam linked crossbows that fire and snap a picture! Sounds awesome eh? Nope not for me or any of us here. Or we’ll condone super long range archery shots FOR ALL and have porcupine deer.. yuck!
Rem300 and any of you others that have been ‘biting your tongue’ … hey great, you grew up all robin hood and I don’t doubt that you can make the shot and have.. good on you. DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS IS THE NORM??? OR THE EXCEPTION??
If we look at the whole archery community… we’ll all agree that you guys are the big time minority. I don’t care if you all role together. Your bragging about stands the chance of influencing what newbies see as the norm…. bad idea. Bad idea indeed. Very very bad idea!!

HWF…. Archery equipment is limited by the following: I will state the obvious
- arrows are affected by wind and stuff you probably won’t see that may be in the way… ever hit grass? Twigs? Ever have the wind affect you?? Your eye will not detect these things (go read an eye chart at 80 yards… that’s your next experiment.. it wont cost you 7 arrows).
- I doubt arrows will consistently have decent velocity that far down to target, but I may be wrong here… I’d love it if someone could enlighten me.
- You may have super hunter guide arms of steel to hold on a pie plate sized target till the conditions are all right and not flinch cause a micro inch change would result in porcu-deer….. but I doubt it. You iron arms guys are the minority.. ethics… norm for group… majority agree.. that’s how we establish them.
- You can’t get the projectile there quick enough to produce a RELIABLE kill shot. Animals move, the conditions for such a shot would be rare, and c’mon. You seriously can’t control those variables reasonably. You can’t.
- I could be totally wrong here…. But a huge part of archery is mastering the art of closing with your game enough to make a reliable kill shot.



Yes, there will always be exceptions, just as there would be exceptions to ideas such as ‘we should never kill babies’ or whatever ethical conundrum you chose to cough up. All of those exceptions are invariable IN THE MINORITY. Hence we would not want to establish norms there…… kind of kills the norm part. Eh?

BTW… I started out as a rant.. by definition.. not much rational thought involved in these! Cut me some slack.

Rem300 I like your post simply cause you spent a great deal of time telling how much to train.

What advice would you give to the average archer on these shots?

I’d say don’t bother.


done!

Ps… the daughter and I could not convince the bull to come and play… nice quiet night. Next time.
WOW!!!!!!!! I have nothing other than WOW!!!!!!


WOW!!!!!!!!!

no more drinky tonight.
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  #99  
Old 09-19-2011, 11:09 PM
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sorry.
little much?

my bad..
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  #100  
Old 09-19-2011, 11:17 PM
Justin.C Justin.C is offline
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Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
sorry.
little much?

my bad..
No I just dont see whom made you the king of what is right and what is wrong???? Ethics is not up to you or anybody else. It is you and only you that has to live with what you do.We all dont need you coming on here and telling us what is rite or wrong in YOUR OPINION...... That is all it is yours... I may or may not agree in how far is too far. I have more problems with all the guys that come on here and say WELL I WOUNDED ONE TONIGHT....... Really....... why would you post that on thee internet to make you and the rest of bow hunters look bad????????? So really what was this thread about other than you telling use we should be like you????
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  #101  
Old 09-19-2011, 11:18 PM
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No I think you pretty much summed up what I was getting at and many others if I can speak for them........
By the way keep up the fun with your daughter as there is no more better feeling than seeing them foster our love for the outdoors.
Isn't it great to be a dad?
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  #102  
Old 09-19-2011, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin.C View Post
No I just dont see whom made you the king of what is right and what is wrong???? Ethics is not up to you or anybody else. It is you and only you that has to live with what you do.We all dont need you coming on here and telling us what is rite or wrong in YOUR OPINION...... That is all it is yours... I may or may not agree in how far is too far. I have more problems with all the guys that come on here and say WELL I WOUNDED ONE TONIGHT....... Really....... why would you post that on thee internet to make you and the rest of bow hunters look bad????????? So really what was this thread about other than you telling use we should be like you????
Keep your arguements up.........it shows how naive you are.
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  #103  
Old 09-20-2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
Just how far is too far?
An arrow at 117 yards is going how fast?
I know out of my flat bow it sure isn't fast!!
If an arrow leaves the bow at 300FPS it must be moving pretty slow at 100 yards i would imagine.

Cat
it depends upon his setup. approximately 260 fps at 100 yards which is much faster than most recurves and a lot of compounds. kenetic energy is still sufficient. even at 117 meters it would still have approx 250 fps much more than any flat bow? time to the target may be 2 seconds and resting animal unspoked by the sound of the shot would probably knot know what hit him. it would be unkind to lump everyones archery skills into a melting pot and reduce it to the lowest common denominator. suffice to say, there are some that are just that good.
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  #104  
Old 09-20-2011, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by C Taylor View Post
I've had pass thrus on deer at 80 yards and I don't know how fast an arrow is traveling at 100 but it sinks into a target as good as a 20 year old bow will at fifty yards.
I'm not saying everyone should start throwing arrows at ranges not practiced but to start saying I'm a poor hunter because I can shoot an animal at 80 yards makes me laugh. It's like saying because I shoot a 30-30 no one should shoot over 150 yards with a rifle.
How many wounded animals did you lose before you actually tagged one at 80 yards?

Be honest now..
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  #105  
Old 09-20-2011, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Justin.C View Post
No I just dont see whom made you the king of what is right and what is wrong???? Ethics is not up to you or anybody else. It is you and only you that has to live with what you do.We all dont need you coming on here and telling us what is rite or wrong in YOUR OPINION...... That is all it is yours... I may or may not agree in how far is too far. I have more problems with all the guys that come on here and say WELL I WOUNDED ONE TONIGHT....... Really....... why would you post that on thee internet to make you and the rest of bow hunters look bad????????? So really what was this thread about other than you telling use we should be like you????
and we found out why we have threads like this or why we need threads like this.
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  #106  
Old 09-20-2011, 04:07 AM
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Sonny, I've lost one deer at 15 yards, and one at 40 about 15 years ago. For me it's not a matter of see a deer and shoot. I've had multiple times that deer have sniffed my boot as I'm sitting by a trail. I am quite particular of what I'm shooting when it comes to deer as I dont want to burn my tag up on just anything. When in the bush long shots are to ify for me but in a open field on a calm morning on a deer that's feeding there's a good chance that if it's the buck I want I'm going to take him. This can't be done without alot of practice and quite honestly after being stuck in harvest mode for the last 3 weeks I'm not going to be planning any mid to long shots until I get the rust off. Am I pushing the limits yes I know this and is why I need to practice continually to do so.
Now I can see Auguements to be made but I spend alot of time and money making good deer habitat and feeding them thruout the tough winters and yes wise buck I have land at Bonnyville area that is constantly being night hunted around that I've been trying to get stopped. So if this makes me unethical and should have my bow taken away and chopped up just step up and bell the cat boys
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  #107  
Old 09-20-2011, 04:44 AM
xtreme hunter10 xtreme hunter10 is offline
 
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I spend alot of time and money making good deer habitat and feeding them thruout the tough winters and yes wise buck I have land at Bonnyville area that is constantly being night hunted around that I've been trying to get stopped. So if this makes me unethical and should have my bow taken away and chopped up just step up and bell the cat boys
Ummm.... well.... uhhh... hmmm... How do I say this... baiting deer is illegal. feeding wildlife is illegal. I'm really at a loss for words. I dont know what to tell you on this one.... Are you joking?
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  #108  
Old 09-20-2011, 06:18 AM
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Ummm.... well.... uhhh... hmmm... How do I say this... baiting deer is illegal. feeding wildlife is illegal. I'm really at a loss for words. I dont know what to tell you on this one.... Are you joking?
Which legislation states feeding wildlife is illegal in Alberta? Just curious as I have not encountered it yet.

Baiting deer for the purpose of hunting is illegal, but feeding them over the winter would not be classed as baiting. Just wondering which legislation your talking about here.
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  #109  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:19 AM
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Why cant an arrow kill an animal at long range? A hunting arrow with razor blades on the front end doesnt really need much speed to get the job done. Whats really needed is shot placement. I find it funny how theres so many guys that preech that they wont shoot over 30 or 40 yards max, come on now my top pin is set a 40 yards. I remember when I got my first bow and started practicing out to 50 yards and I used to think that was along ways. But when you start practicing out to 100 yards then 50 becomes very easy. This year my practice sessions involved shooting all the way back to 100 yards in a multitude of situations and even though I dont think I would shoot at an animal at 100 yards I would sure do 80 yards no problem, unless its really windy out. Next year I am going to bump it back to 120 and see how 100 yards looks after I get used to that.
If you have the right gear and its tuned properly and you have practiced enough none of this should be a problem.
For all of you that post thats its unethical and bash anyone who actually has the skill and talent to take a longger shot, practice more!
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  #110  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:22 AM
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Default Unethical????????

Since we're on the subject how about road hunters/quad hunters and oh yah bear baiting. And don't forget to leave your junk out there for others to enjoy.
Not too many Daniel Boone's out there is there.
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  #111  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SonnyJ View Post
How many wounded animals did you lose before you actually tagged one at 80 yards?

Be honest now..
Its not that hard, really just practice! I filled my doe tag last week at 78 yards. Arrow went into the lungs and she ran maby 100 yards and fell over dead. I've never wounded an animal with my bow yet, just killed them.
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  #112  
Old 09-20-2011, 07:45 AM
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This goes to show how little some people do for wildlife but will flame others. Since when is creating habitat such as leaving areas that has steep hills or slough bottoms that had been farmed by previous landowners to go back to trees illegal? As for feeding deer in winter when they are starving everywhere and coyotes picking them off like gophers. Give your head a shake, it's not illegal one bit, it's called caring a bit more about things than just killing them. Too many of these flames come from people that after the deer is dead they don't give a dam until next year.
This year do more for the game than you take then talk ethics to me. Since the only thing I've seen on here was with antelope fences and work done with them, in my books that is high on the ethics scale to me. You guys that just buy a tag and shoot your deer are more like leaches to me.
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  #113  
Old 09-20-2011, 08:06 AM
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This thread is unethical.
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  #114  
Old 09-20-2011, 08:14 AM
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Its not that hard, really just practice! I filled my doe tag last week at 78 yards. Arrow went into the lungs and she ran maby 100 yards and fell over dead. I've never wounded an animal with my bow yet, just killed them.
Glad it worked out for you. I'm sure you're a great target archer at long ranges, but things will happen in the field with live moving targets - give it time. I hope you never wound one.

Haven't seen anyone in this tread argue that bows/arrows can't shoot effectively to 100+ meters with the proper gear, tuning and practice. But all that doesn't matter if the game moves after the arrow is in flight.

Just curious if you practice with full camo (gear) and broadheads at those 100 ranges? What kind of groups do you get? Your groups certainly won't be affected by buck fever at 80 yards ... you aren't even close enough to feel the rush.

You are missing the entire point of bowhunting - getting up close and personally. Hopefully you never become an ambassador of the sport - the last thing the bowhunting community needs is more long range shooters.
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  #115  
Old 09-20-2011, 09:41 AM
HighWildnFree HighWildnFree is offline
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Think maybe you got the wrong idea there bessy. First of all, I made a point of making it clear that I DONT have the skills ( or equipment) to even think about shooting an animal at the kind of ranges we are talking about. And no, I dont have "arms of steel" lol, quite the opposite actually lol. And as for having nothing better to do.....yup. Yer right. I work my balls off all winter and summer (and spring this year with the fires) so I can afford to take the hunting season off. So when its the middle of the day and 25 degrees and nothins really happenin yet, Ive got the time and space to test something like this out just for kicks. In the course of testing it out for fun, I also proved a point. If I can do it more than half the time with zero practice and mid range equipment, imagine what a guy who practices it daily with high end equipment is capable of. Maybe long shots are some guys thing. If he can do it, all the power to him.

Was it Gibsons last night or Golden Wedding? Lol
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  #116  
Old 09-20-2011, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fish View Post
Its not that hard, really just practice! I filled my doe tag last week at 78 yards. Arrow went into the lungs and she ran maby 100 yards and fell over dead. I've never wounded an animal with my bow yet, just killed them.
Never wounded.......IMO , you haven't bowhunted long enough, or your not totally honest. Sorry I don't know anyone that bow hunts that hasn't wounded at least one animal, especially in their first couple years. if you shoot those distances, and never.....wow.......I'm shocked

If it's true, there is people That will pay you to shoot/hunt.
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  #117  
Old 09-20-2011, 11:23 AM
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^^^ ive bowhunted since i was 15 and ive never lost one either. im not claiming better skills or better luck or whatever.....but thats the truth. only lost one ever and it was with a rifle. it sucked.
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  #118  
Old 09-20-2011, 11:26 AM
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Default no drinky here...

HWF,

Wish I thought of a drink last night.

Naw, I wuz just choked about loosing light too soon while we were closing on Mr.Bugles..... and the fact that there looks like there's no way in heck I'll be able to bowhunt this season as im just too dang gimped up and I'm not giving myself the chance to heal up right.

Big rack.... your back from the south! How'd ya do? There wuz alot of elk around.
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  #119  
Old 09-20-2011, 11:40 AM
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The guys name is Jesse Morehead… and it was a Moose that he shot in Alberta at 117 yards…

I’m not saying I agree with it at all… but he is a World Champion 3D Archer… and yes I know targets are different than the real thing…
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  #120  
Old 09-20-2011, 12:50 PM
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The distance is not the issue as much as being able to varify a clean hit or a miss ,or how about a kill shot and not a wound .
If you have the eyes to see this far i commend you ,50 meter is my max and even then im iffy on seeing my shot hit where i wanted it to.

CTaylor .... Because you have the resources and time to feed and care for the deer and have your own little paradise ,that makes you a saint?
I have property and coyote kills every year,I do not feed the deer so they become deppendant on me .
I spend my 300 bucks a year on licenses and thousands on other supplies for my hunting privledges . my question is HOW DOES THIS MAKE ME A LEACH?
I think insulting real hunters that spend real money to help manage the wildlife of Alberta is a black mark on your inteligence!
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