May have to go to the Crossbow...

[Stinky Coyote]

pretty nice opportunity we all have there, crossbow changes nothing there, the opportunity will still be there, the world isn't going to race out and flood the roads with slob poaching road hunters, and stop associating poachers with crossbows, as said, easier to road hunt with a compound than a crossbow....and more people will wound with vertical bows than with crossbows....which is a good thing....as said before, educate the facts and what rancher with a sense of reason would not want crossbows out there? a more compentant bow for the general bowhunters that do the majority of wounding

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

pretty nice opportunity we all have there, crossbow changes nothing there, the opportunity will still be there, the world isn't going to race out and flood the roads with slob poaching road hunters, and stop associating poachers with crossbows, as said, easier to road hunt with a compound than a crossbow....and more people will wound with vertical bows than with crossbows....which is a good thing....as said before, educate the facts and what rancher with a sense of reason would not want crossbows out there? a more compentant bow for the general bowhunters that do the majority of wounding

I think it would change lots in the archery season.My old man uses a cross bow for about 5 years.This is the first year he killed somthing with it.I set it all up for him and it is deadly.It is so not in the same league as a compound or a longbow.People that have tried one know that. Also it is like anything given something new or a new opertunity people hored to it.It would wreck what we have left for a quality bow hunt in Ab after all the extra gun tags given out.As for wounding animals that is all the people that dont practice(with either).There are more people that dont do any practice and go out and wound something every time they shoot.We need to change that so people that cant hit a target at what ever distance cant have that pin on there bow.( another topic).So again NO TO CROSSBOWS...

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

pretty nice opportunity we all have there, crossbow changes nothing there, the opportunity will still be there, the world isn't going to race out and flood the roads with slob poaching road hunters, and stop associating poachers with crossbows, as said, easier to road hunt with a compound than a crossbow....and more people will wound with vertical bows than with crossbows....which is a good thing....as said before, educate the facts and what rancher with a sense of reason would not want crossbows out there? a more compentant bow for the general bowhunters that do the majority of wounding

What if your wrong, and there is an influx of people. What if mule deer and moose go to full draw in the bow zone? What if takes 10 years to draw trophy antelope? What if sheep was taken completely out of the general season in 410?What if draw tags dropped and priority points doubled for everything cause of the influx.

Would you be that guy that would apologized, or hung his head cause he didn't his part to help?

What if your son/daughter ask you Dad what did you do to help preserve Bow Hunting in Alberta???

What you say or do here will echo into eternity, I for one will proudly say I stood up to xbow hoard!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

What if your wrong, and there is an influx of people. What if mule deer and moose go to full draw in the bow zone? What if takes 10 years to draw trophy antelope? What if sheep was taken completely out of the general season in 410?What if draw tags dropped and priority points doubled for everything cause of the influx.

Would you be that guy that would apologized, or hung his head cause he didn't his part to help?

What if your son/daughter ask you Dad what did you do to help preserve Bow Hunting in Alberta???

What you say or do here will echo into eternity, I for one will proudly say I stood up to xbow hoard!

100% agree on this. Only people with a real disability should be using them.Not every joe out hunting.

[AxeMan]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

What if your wrong, and there is an influx of people. What if mule deer and moose go to full draw in the bow zone? What if takes 10 years to draw trophy antelope? What if sheep was taken completely out of the general season in 410?What if draw tags dropped and priority points doubled for everything cause of the influx.

Would you be that guy that would apologized, or hung his head cause he didn't his part to help?

What if your son/daughter ask you Dad what did you do to help preserve Bow Hunting in Alberta???

What you say or do here will echo into eternity, I for one will proudly say I stood up to xbow hoard!

And I for two will echo your comments, Pottymouth. You are one of the few who are making any sense in this thread. I have argued your sentiments till I was blue in the face on other threads. I honestly believe that those in favor of crossbows being included in bow season are either incompetent bow hunters or greedy rifle hunters looking for increased opportunity or harvest. If some people think that crossbows such as the TAC 15 won't become commonplace if the bow hunting season is opened up to crossbows they are just plain naive. When did money ever hold up hunting weaponry...lol.

Oh well, I'm going to keep practicing every second day with my recurves.

[Stinky Coyote]

i only see it as a tool, researched it as a tool, when done i came away 180 degrees from when i went in....its just another bow, kill ratios/effectiveness just like the compounds etc., i can't think of it any other way, my kids will hear it no different, learn about it and make up your own mind will also be in there....whatever change is required to add in a different type of bow is worth it imo

i really don't see how everyone is going to all of a sudden be a killing super star with crossbows.....the guys chasing sheep in 410 are likely hardcore enough to already be killing superstars....its not going to matter what is in their hands at the crunch....argued to death and with the sheep i understand its the finding a legal one thats the hard part....the killing part isn't too bad with them from all i've been told so the tool should be even less of a factor, plus i know which i'd rather pack around...not the crossbow thats forsure, harvest data suggests the same thing...99% hunter, 1% tool....this is just a tool that i now say wtf is it doing lumped in with the guns? shouldn't we fix that? and if so what do we gain? what i think we gain is obviously what many of you think is what we lose....thats life

oh, and why would we introduce the thing full out? into the sheep seasons/draws even zones etc.? Why not start with the high poplulation ungulates/areas and give it a trial run for awhile, i was even for just throwing it into the bowzones for pilot etc. i can't imagine them being introduced into the 400 zones right off the hop but whatever the major powers at be decide is what they decide

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

i only see it as a tool, researched it as a tool, when done i came away 180 degrees from when i went in....its just another bow, kill ratios/effectiveness just like the compounds etc., i can't think of it any other way, my kids will hear it no different, learn about it and make up your own mind will also be in there....whatever change is required to add in a different type of bow is worth it imo

i really don't see how everyone is going to all of a sudden be a killing super star with crossbows.....the guys chasing sheep in 410 are likely hardcore enough to already be killing superstars....its not going to matter what is in their hands at the crunch....argued to death and with the sheep i understand its the finding a legal one thats the hard part....the killing part isn't too bad with them from all i've been told so the tool should be even less of a factor, plus i know which i'd rather pack around...not the crossbow thats forsure, harvest data suggests the same thing...99% hunter, 1% tool....this is just a tool that i now say wtf is it doing lumped in with the guns? shouldn't we fix that? and if so what do we gain? what i think we gain is obviously what many of you think is what we lose....thats life

oh, and why would we introduce the thing full out? into the sheep seasons/draws even zones etc.? Why not start with the high poplulation ungulates/areas and give it a trial run for awhile, i was even for just throwing it into the bowzones for pilot etc. i can't imagine them being introduced into the 400 zones right off the hop but whatever the major powers at be decide is what they decide

A cross bow is a gun that shoots a arrow. Not a compound.I for one dissagree with them in a archery season. They are not the same.You dont have to draw back when it is time to shoot.That is where we get busted 98% of the time.As for a bow hunter Stinky I cant beleive that you would agree with one bein aloud.Pottymouth is right on the money with this one.I say leave gun hunters hunt with guns and bow hunter use bows not a motified gun to be some what similar to a bow.

[Stinky Coyote]

don't worry Justin, not one bowhunter i know is with me....still buds with them all the same, lots of warm smiles back and forth when the subject comes up though we try to avoid it most of the time

oh, and in case you haven't caught up yet....its a bow

i'm just not scared of it for some reason

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

The more guys the better? Where in the world does that statement actually qualify as a good resolution???

-Fishing in the same lake......nope ( walleye is on draw now, wonder why)
-Quading...........................nope ( restricted access on pathways,wonder why)
-Traffic.............................nope ( need i say more)
-consumating.....................nope (maybe some guys, but not me, wonder why)

Come on, no where does more equal a better result. I Bow hunt, to have the oppoturnity NOT to see anyone.

Hook line and sinker. How'd that taste? You just admitted the real selfish reason you don't like xbows.

The world will not end. You may get a handfull of new guys in bow season using a xbow, but as has been mentioned in many threads, the xbow hunter still needs to do everything a bow hunter does to be successful. In other words, success rate will be low.

You can share the woods, there's lots out there.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

My mistake. I was under the impression it used an AR-15 lower which is restricted. Are they available in Canada? Might have to pick one up.

And yup, I'm a gun hunter who owns a crossbow. I'm going to go out and shoot all your deer and there will be nothing left for you. Just ridiculous.

We should be encouraging more hunters however possible, be it bow, xbow, muzzle loader or whatever. The ABA is just scared that there might be a few more hunters in the bush for early season.

Personally, I don't care either way. I just think the more hunters the better. Whenever there is mention of xbows in bow season, its laughable how up in arms the ABA gets. Its mine and you can't have it! Too fricken funny.

Have a great year boys!

Joke.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

What if your wrong, and there is an influx of people. What if mule deer and moose go to full draw in the bow zone? What if takes 10 years to draw trophy antelope? What if sheep was taken completely out of the general season in 410?What if draw tags dropped and priority points doubled for everything cause of the influx.

Would you be that guy that would apologized, or hung his head cause he didn't his part to help?

What if your son/daughter ask you Dad what did you do to help preserve Bow Hunting in Alberta???

What you say or do here will echo into eternity, I for one will proudly say I stood up to xbow hoard!

I agree Potty! However, we are preaching to guys that obviously don't give a s**t about what the future brings! Its selfish hunters that want to live in the moment and try to cash in on what they think is a possible hunting goldmine! If they can get out for a longer season an stick a few does in the ***** they are happy with that! Besides, whats the worst that can happen for them? Maybe In a few years they close the crossbow season? They just go, oh well! It was fun while it lasted.

It's real bowhunters that are left shaking our heads going. WHAT WHERE/ARE THEY THINKING?

[MathewsArcher]

The fact is SRD has already indicated Mule Deer and Moose will be on a draw in what zones remain open to archery if the crossbow resolution goes forward. They realize there will be a large influx of hunters during the archery season and a draw for these species at least will be implemented.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

My mistake. I was under the impression it used an AR-15 lower which is restricted. Are they available in Canada? Might have to pick one up.

And yup, I'm a gun hunter who owns a crossbow. I'm going to go out and shoot all your deer and there will be nothing left for you. Just ridiculous.

We should be encouraging more hunters however possible, be it bow, xbow, muzzle loader or whatever. The ABA is just scared that there might be a few more hunters in the bush for early season.

Personally, I don't care either way. I just think the more hunters the better. Whenever there is mention of xbows in bow season, its laughable how up in arms the ABA gets. Its mine and you can't have it! Too fricken funny.

Have a great year boys!

Wow that was a hard guess! Your a xbow/gun hunter.

If your so into encouraging different ways of hunting then why have you not gotten into archery???
Can't pull back a bow and hold it steady??
Or just don't want to learn something technical and new?
Then again Its much easier to just grab a XGun and call yourself a bowhunter i guess.

If this does come into effect i'm sure i'll see you driving around the bowzone chain smoking, drinking coffees and ummmmm...hunting.
Hope your able to, as you say "kill all the deer and leave none for us!"

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

The fact is SRD has already indicated Mule Deer and Moose will be on a draw in what zones remain open to archery if the crossbow resolution goes forward. They realize there will be a large influx of hunters during the archery season and a draw for these species at least will be implemented.

That will only be the start. Everything else will follow.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

Wow that was a hard guess! Your a xbow/gun hunter.

If your so into encouraging different ways of hunting then why have you not gotten into archery???
Can't pull back a bow and hold it steady??
Or just don't want to learn something technical and new?
Then again Its much easier to just grab a XGun and call yourself a bowhunter i guess.

If this does come into effect i'm sure i'll see you driving around the bowzone chain smoking, drinking coffees and ummmmm...hunting.
Hope your able to, as you say "kill all the deer and leave none for us!"

Lol. So predictable. You sure have me pegged.

Take a couple deep breaths.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Lol. So predictable. You sure have me pegged.

Take a couple deep breaths.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

don't worry Justin, not one bowhunter i know is with me....still buds with them all the same, lots of warm smiles back and forth when the subject comes up though we try to avoid it most of the time

oh, and in case you haven't caught up yet....its a bow

i'm just not scared of it for some reason

I dont want to see archery go on a draw as what is proposed if crossbows are aloud.That ****es me off.As for you that is alright you are aloud to have your own opinion and that is fine.

I have caught up and no that is not a bow. That pse tac crossbow is waymore than a bow with the specs I read it is so far from a bow.

i'm just not scared of it for some reason[/QUOTE]me either just scared of the draw reqired to use it in the same season as my compound.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Hook line and sinker. How'd that taste? You just admitted the real selfish reason you don't like xbows.

The world will not end. You may get a handfull of new guys in bow season using a xbow, but as has been mentioned in many threads, the xbow hunter still needs to do everything a bow hunter does to be successful. In other words, success rate will be low.

You can share the woods, there's lots out there.

LOL.. I don't think your cunning , cause I said something you thought, that's ONE reason of many!I'm more worried about the influx of poaching, implmentation of draws, more un trained people in the woods, the rep the xbows are will give bow hunters not them, and long tradition of archery, going to the dodo birds.There's nothing selfish about stating the facts, more population breeds more problems(but i'm willing to see an arguement saying I'm wrong about that).....Hook line and sinker, you proved you just want to play devils advicate, because you don't fully understand the reprocasions that will arise.

Again when it's too late , it's too hard to fix!!!!

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

LOL.. I don't think your cunning , cause I said something you thought, that's ONE reason of many!I'm more worried about the influx of poaching, implmentation of draws, more un trained people in the woods, the rep the xbows are will give bow hunters not them, and long tradition of archery, going to the dodo birds.There's nothing selfish about stating the facts, more population breeds more problems(but i'm willing to see an arguement saying I'm wrong about that).....Hook line and sinker, you proved you just want to play devils advicate, because you don't fully understand the reprocasions that will arise.

Again when it's too late , it's too hard to fix!!!!

I'm a pretty reasonable person. If you or anyone for that matter could present me with FACTS supporting your argument, my opinion (which is pretty neutral admittedly) could be swayed.

Lets take N America as the area. Of the states and provinces where xbows have been allowed during archery season, has there been an increase in poaching? Has the long tradition of archery gone the way of the dodo bird? Have the woods been filled with untrained (define trained?) people?

Having someone playing devils advocate is a good think. Helps take the emotional and knee jerk reactions out of play.

I'm all ears. I'll do a little googling over the lunch hour to see if anything comes up.

[pottymouth]

Unfortunatly, all those so far who have stepped up to the plate FOR xbows, have done so with the mind sight that they believe that xbows open the door for more hunter oppoturnity.But come accross as jealous. Yet bow hunting has opened the door for hunter growth for years, and given equal oppoturnity to all to try.

Most bow hunters have lead the way in trying to resolve situations and problems with hunting it's self. ( i.e sunday hunting, your welcome). When the gun law came up, even though there are bow hunter that don't touch rifles, I didn't hear a single person say, skrew them guys, it doesn't affect me I'm voting against!! We stood behind the gun population.

An intresting situation is arising, that I am seeing. None here FOR xbows is actually an exclusive Xbow hunter. I have yet to find posted on A.O a confirmed big game Xbow kill, during the hunting season....WHY? Does no one who argues for them use them. So why argue for something like that? The oppoturnity to form a club, or brotherhood of xbow hunters has not started. There fight is based on the hard work of other organization, and lick a tick have tried to hang on and suck the blood out of these hard fighting organizations.

If an xbow club, spent the time(years) the money (thousands) and the political channels like other hunting facits have, then they to would have earned a right to speak. But until we stop talking about a rifle like weapon, with no real following or actual members, I believe this should be a mute topic. Start where the bow hunting community started, gain some members, contribute more to hunting, like bowhunters pay, and work your way up to a level where you might have a case.

Most bowhunters are united in saying that:
-They are not a bow
-They shouldn't have the same season as Bows have
-They shouldn't be allowed in 212,248, and 410

-They should have there own season (perhaps a primitive weapons season in dec for two weeks)
-Bow hunters would be happy (they wouldn't lose everything they fought for)
-A chance for hunter growth would be generated
-An extended hunting season would benefit everyone

Heck I might even buy one if it meant I could hunt in rifle zones in december for 2 weeks!

Would that not be a great solution to everyones needs?????

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Unfortunatly, all those so far who have stepped up to the plate FOR xbows, have done so with the mind sight that they believe that xbows open the door for more hunter oppoturnity.But come accross as jealous. Yet bow hunting has opened the door for hunter growth for years, and given equal oppoturnity to all to try.

Most bow hunters have lead the way in trying to resolve situations and problems with hunting it's self. ( i.e sunday hunting, your welcome). When the gun law came up, even though there are bow hunter that don't touch rifles, I didn't hear a single person say, skrew them guys, it doesn't affect me I'm voting against!! We stood behind the gun population.

An intresting situation is arising, that I am seeing. None here FOR xbows is actually an exclusive Xbow hunter. I have yet to find posted on A.O a confirmed big game Xbow kill, during the hunting season....WHY? Does no one who argues for them use them. So why argue for something like that? The oppoturnity to form a club, or brotherhood of xbow hunters has not started. There fight is based on the hard work of other organization, and lick a tick have tried to hang on and suck the blood out of these hard fighting organizations.

If an xbow club, spent the time(years) the money (thousands) and the political channels like other hunting facits have, then they to would have earned a right to speak. But until we stop talking about a rifle like weapon, with no real following or actual members, I believe this should be a mute topic. Start where the bow hunting community started, gain some members, contribute more to hunting, like bowhunters pay, and work your way up to a level where you might have a case.

Most bowhunters are united in saying that:
-They are not a bow
-They shouldn't have the same season as Bows have
-They shouldn't be allowed in 212,248, and 410

-They should have there own season (perhaps a primitive weapons season in dec for two weeks)
-Bow hunters would be happy (they wouldn't lose everything they fought for)
-A chance for hunter growth would be generated
-An extended hunting season would benefit everyone

Heck I might even buy one if it meant I could hunt in rifle zones in december for 2 weeks!

Would that not be a great solution to everyones needs?????

Um ok.... So no luck with finding FACTS?

I did a little googleing over lunch and found a few articles. Really hard to find Canadian ones though.

Good one here, and the author uses FACTS.

http://hunting.about.com/od/arch/l/aa020716a.htm

Conclusion from the article:

In my opinion, the most conclusive evidence that crossbows can be successfully used alongside other archery equipment comes from the very state that opponents point to in warning... Ohio. There, hunters are actually preferring crossbows over other bows, but are experiencing the same (or very similar) success rate regardless of their choice of archery equipment. That sounds like a win-win situation to me.

There has been no wholesale slaughter of the deer population in Ohio. Crossbow hunters are not wiping out the herd while other bowhunters languish and sing the blues. Each season, more deer are being taken, which means greater hunter success is being attained, and there's plenty of game for everyone. Folks who like vertical bows are using them alongside crossbow hunters, and both are enjoying success.

Considering the evidence, and the equally compelling fact that there are folks who would like to carry crossbows in the woods during archery season, I don't see any reason whatsoever to keep crossbows out of the archery season based on the arguments covered in this article. Other factors, such as possible effects on the deer population, must be considered in any given case, but that's another matter entirely.

Hard to find Canadian article
http://articles.outdoorcanada.ca/Hom...n258049p1.html

Unbiased
http://archery2009-blog.blogspot.com...crossbows.html

Thats all I have time for today.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Um ok.... So no luck with finding FACTS?

I did a little googleing over lunch and found a few articles. Really hard to find Canadian ones though.

Good one here, and the author uses FACTS.

http://hunting.about.com/od/arch/l/aa020716a.htm

Conclusion from the article:



Hard to find Canadian article
http://articles.outdoorcanada.ca/Hom...n258049p1.html

Unbiased
http://archery2009-blog.blogspot.com...crossbows.html

Thats all I have time for today.

Those are not facts those are others opinions.

Do you bow hunt? Have you ever tryed a compound or a xbow? Why is it that you want to use a xbow so bad?Is it cause you keep getting busted drawing back or is it just to hard to do?

I want to know all of this to see what is your deal. I agree with everything pottymouth has said in regards to this subject. I have used a cross bow (not hunting) and It has more advantages I dont agree with them in an archery season. Primitive weapons season ok.

[AbAngler]

Originally Posted by JustinC

Those are not facts those are others opinions.

.

Actually, the first article is full of facts. Unfortunately I won't have time today to continue this debate. Going golfing.

Maybe you guys can come up with some facts of your own, but I doubt it.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Actually, the first article is full of facts. Unfortunately I won't have time today to continue this debate. Going golfing.

Maybe you guys can come up with some facts of your own, but I doubt it.

Golf is a great idea! Maybe after a long season of swinging a golf club you might be able to build up enought arm strenght to draw back a real bow and forget about the Xbow!

Then again maybe you golf with a mechanical golf club. One that makes the sport easier and takes out a lot of the human error...kinda like a XBow does.

I'm not hot under the collar yet today. Just jealous because i wish i was golfing toady.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by AbAngler

Actually, the first article is full of facts. Unfortunately I won't have time today to continue this debate. Going golfing.

Maybe you guys can come up with some facts of your own, but I doubt it.

Like I said in the other thread you pull you xbow back just before shooting an animal go ahead.that is when 98 percent of hunts are won or lost.more lost than won.with a xbow that doesnot comein to play so going from 20-40% it goes way up closer to 100%. Not playing on the same feild in my books.

[BowhuntAB]

Originally Posted by JustinC

Like I said in the other thread you pull you xbow back just before shooting an animal go ahead.that is when 98 percent of hunts are won or lost.more lost than won.with a xbow that doesnot comein to play so going from 20-40% it goes way up closer to 100%. Not playing on the same feild in my books.

Careful JustinC! He may come back by telling us to draw our bows back when we leave our trucks and walk around at full draw all day long!

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by BowhuntAB

Careful JustinC! He may come back by telling us to draw our bows back when we leave our trucks and walk around at full draw all day long!

ya he would tell us to use his golf club to hold our bows at full draw.cause he cant do that either.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by JustinC

Like I said in the other thread you pull you xbow back just before shooting an animal go ahead.that is when 98 percent of hunts are won or lost.

this is wrong, harvest stats show that kill ratios basically indentical...99% hunter is what gets the job done......the tool is 1%.....if that

[Artist]

I began my archery life with a recurve, then went to a compound, then tried a crossbow for a while. In BC, I think the regulations were a bit more inclusive of crossbows at the time.

My conclusions?... A crossbow has some advantages at closer distances (under 30 yards?) They are fast and accurate at those distances. Past 30-or-so yards, I would take the compound hands-down and would challenge any freehand-crossbow shooter any day at 30+ distances. At close range, the crossbow is accurate but at longer ranges, they are finicky and unforgiving if you're at all off in your distance calculation [due to the short arrows]. As well, I found the crossbow cumbersome and awkward in the bush. In the end, I sold the stupid thing and bought a wedding ring.

I think crossbows can give a false impression that they are "super-killers" when they are not.

[Stinky Coyote]

how bout that....

that wedding ring trade off sure got more expensive in a hurry eh?