Sheep on a Draw?

[buddyhunter]

I have heard that they are seriously considering putting trophy sheep on a draw, they think that this will help curb the amount of short rams being killed. Has anyone else heard anything similar to this??

[BigRackLover]

Originally Posted by buddyhunter

I have heard that they are seriously considering putting trophy sheep on a draw, they think that this will help curb the amount of short rams being killed. Has anyone else heard anything similar to this??

Haven't heard that.

Perhaps a requirement to complete another sheep course would be more success full in curbing the amount of short rams being killed.

Putting them on draw won't solve the root problem IMO.

[WhiteyChaser]

i've heard rumours, but i think thats all it is at this point, it would defintely increase the trophy quality of alberta's sheep population, province wide and if all zones went on draw it would give the average joe a higher chance at killing a book ram in a few years, as more zones are open to draw not everyone will be applying for the same few zones that keep producing year after year. at least in theory anywho it would get my vote if it counts for much

[Pathfinder76]

Those rumors are becoming closer to a reality

[buddyhunter]

Originally Posted by WhiteyChaser

i've heard rumours, but i think thats all it is at this point, it would defintely increase the trophy quality of alberta's sheep population, province wide and if all zones went on draw it would give the average joe a higher chance at killing a book ram in a few years, as more zones are open to draw not everyone will be applying for the same few zones that keep producing year after year. at least in theory anywho it would get my vote if it counts for much

i really hope they don't go to draw and i disagree that it would give the average joe hunter a chance at a book ram every few years. if anything it will hinder your chances at getting a ram.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by buddyhunter

i really hope they don't go to draw and i disagree that it would give the average joe hunter a chance at a book ram every few years. if anything it will hinder your chances at getting a ram.

Would all depend on the number of tags issued. But quality should go up. I wouldnt mind putting in for a few years to hunt more big rams but really dont want it to be where you have to put in for 10yrs to get a tag.
SG

[buckbrushoutdoors]

i would like to see sheep go to age rather than just size, there would be alot more mature rams, then we could start killing those old broomed rams
just my 2 cents

[buddyhunter]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Would all depend on the number of tags issued. But quality should go up. I wouldnt mind putting in for a few years to hunt more big rams but really dont want it to be where you have to put in for 10yrs to get a tag.
SG

that is the problem though, for the quality to go up they have to issue a minimal amount of tags therefore increasing wait time.

Originally Posted by buddyhunter

I have heard that they are seriously considering putting trophy sheep on a draw, they think that this will help curb the amount of short rams being killed. Has anyone else heard anything similar to this??

This one of those rumours that seems to surface every year at this time.

[hwy_6363]

I honestly don't think there are enough rams taken by hunters in a season to warrant trophy sheep tags going to a draw (in WMU's where there is currently a general season). Wolves, bears, cougars, and loss of habitat take a far greater toll on the sheep than any hunting pressure could do.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by hwy_6363

I honestly don't think there are enough rams taken by hunters in a season to warrant trophy sheep tags going to a draw (in WMU's where there is currently a general season). Wolves, bears, cougars, and loss of habitat take a far greater toll on the sheep than any hunting pressure could do.

Im in agreement on this. A buddy was hunting two cats a few days ago and they were hanging right with the sheep. And during the cougar study done recently one cat was collared south west of rocky and it ate I beleive it was 5 sheep in a couple weeks. And a couple of those were legal rams!

If you want to stop the shooting of short rams I say increase the penalty!
Bigger fines, be unable to hunt bighorn again, etc.
SG

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Im in agreement on this. A buddy was hunting two cats a few days ago and they were hanging right with the sheep. And during the cougar study done recently one cat was collared south west of rocky and it ate I beleive it was 5 sheep in a couple weeks. And a couple of those were legal rams!

If you want to stop the shooting of short rams I say increase the penalty!
Bigger fines, be unable to hunt bighorn again, etc.
SG

In some of the studies they did in the Sheep River area, cats were very prey specific with one male actually targeting moose pretty well exclusively. From what I remember, it was as cats got older that they actually switched to sheep on winter range. I also seem to remember that it was females that accounted for the most sheep kills. They can kill an awful lot of sheep....especially a female with kittens. As most hunters target toms, it's unlikely that a lot of the sheep killers are actually getting taken out of the population, even where they are hunted.

SG, have you got a number of how many short rams are shot in a year? I can't imagine it's that many but I could be out to lunch.

[buckbrushoutdoors]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

In some of the studies they did in the Sheep River area, cats were very prey specific with one male actually targeting moose pretty well exclusively. From what I remember, it was as cats got older that they actually switched to sheep on winter range. I also seem to remember that it was females that accounted for the most sheep kills. They can kill an awful lot of sheep....especially a female with kittens. As most hunters target toms, it's unlikely that a lot of the sheep killers are actually getting taken out of the population, even where they are hunted.

SG, have you got a number of how many short rams are shot in a year? I can't imagine it's that many but I could be out to lunch.

i have always wondered about how many rams are shot every that dont make the 3/4, i really hope that not many do!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

In some of the studies they did in the Sheep River area, cats were very prey specific with one male actually targeting moose pretty well exclusively. From what I remember, it was as cats got older that they actually switched to sheep on winter range. I also seem to remember that it was females that accounted for the most sheep kills. They can kill an awful lot of sheep....especially a female with kittens. As most hunters target toms, it's unlikely that a lot of the sheep killers are actually getting taken out of the population, even where they are hunted.

SG, have you got a number of how many short rams are shot in a year? I can't imagine it's that many but I could be out to lunch.

I dont have any numbers but really have to agree that it cant be that high of a number! Im sure there are a couple left on the mountain every year and im sure a few turned in that are small but still think a small amount.

The cougar sheep kills that ive herd of are from the guy that chased alot of the cats that were collared and he and the biologists figured sheep were high up on the cougars menu. The also think that it may be the cause of the decreased herd at Ram Mountain west of Rocky. That is part of the reason the sheep foundation helped fund the collaring. There had to be so many cats collared in sheep country so the affects of cats on the sheep population will be better known.

SG

[LongDraw]

If sheep (and all other draws IMO) goes on draw you should have to actually purchase the tag if you get drawn, should be automatic.

Lots of people would suddenly become a sheep hunter once it was on draw.

I would think that some areas/zones would get more pressure if put on draw.

Before sheep goes on draw how about getting OHV's out of the sheep zones? Seems like a logical first step to me if in fact there is a problem with too many young rams getting killed

If someone draws a tag that could potentially take numerous years to get I would think they would be less apt to pass on 5.5yr old/ just legal rams?

I am real curious about the number of short rams killed as well. I have never heard it being brought up as a big issue?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

If sheep (and all other draws IMO) goes on draw you should have to actually purchase the tag if you get drawn, should be automatic.

Lots of people would suddenly become a sheep hunter once it was on draw.

I would think that some areas/zones would get more pressure if put on draw.

Before sheep goes on draw how about getting OHV's out of the sheep zones? Seems like a logical first step to me if in fact their is a problem with too many young rams getting killed

If someone draws a tag that could potentially take numerous years to get I would think they would be less apt to pass on 5.5yr old/ just legal rams?

How would closing atv use stop young rams being killed?
There arent many atv zones left and there are some people that thats the only way they can go!

And with the zones getting more pressure issue all they have to do is put the draw zone specific and control the number of tags in each zone.

And there is nothing wrong with the shooting of a 5 1/2 year old ram if thats what they want but if a few more rams survive to reach 8 or 9 alot of guys would wait to shoot an older ram.
SG

[nube]

Sheep don't need to be on a draw right now. Maybe some areas are having troubles but the majority of them are doing well.
I don't mind if they do put it on draw as long as wait times are not huge. Why not draw for an area and let the tag holder shoot whatever size of ram he wants?

[Thickhorn]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

Before sheep goes on draw how about getting OHV's out of the sheep zones? Seems like a logical first step to me if in fact there is a problem with too many young rams getting killed

X2 - definitely an important first step

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Thickhorn

X2 - definitely an important first step

So you think stopping the OHV use is gunna help?

How will this help in the 80%+ of bighorn areas that are already closed to OHV.

A sheep hunter is a sheep hunter no matter if he walks, rides horses, or uses an OHV. Everyone has just as much right to be out there as the next guy!

I dont think the draw would be very helpful and i really do like hunting sheep each year, but that being said i do agree that there is a need for change, there are too many young rams bing killed. I know one guy thats killed 7 sheep with the biggest going maybe 160. They should limite the number of rams killed in a life time, maybe 3 or 4. This would mostlikly decrease the number of rams killed and improve the trophy quality. This way you can kill your squeaker to start and then kill two or three hogs if you ever see one.

[nube]

I just had a thought. I have not hunted in any of the full curl zones. If there is anyone on this forum that has I would really like to know what the changes they have seen in them if any at all? That would help us decide if full curl is the way to go or not. Personally i don't think so but I am all ears to if there has been any improvement in size or number of sheep. It would be interesting to know the stats on the number of sheep harvested now compared to before they started the full curl thing.

[dinosaur hunter]

more than rumors a few in asrd think this would help but lets look at facts
first sheep numbers are unchanged in over 30 yrs. sheep hunters are down if anything
harvest has not changed at all in last 30 yrs most consistent numbers ASRD( fish and Willife) has
so what is the problem????

Age Structure " not as many real old rams in some area's"

is the cause over hunting ??
I think not

lets look when the areas concerned far south started to loss age structure "not numbers" it is right about the same time the bow valley wolf pack was re introduced "same area" and same time many restriction came into effect on cougar harvest "Quota licensing" . This was the number one cougar area in Alberta "south western Alberta" and it had a high harvest rate


Lets look at sheep behavior , "older Rams become more solitary and tend to spend more time in the timber", predators are more effective hunting lone animals in heavy cover
a full curl rule was put in but only increased the average harvest age by one year but definitely decreased the over all harvest .If this was effective management then over all harvest should have returned after one year but it didn't so obviously hunting is not the problem

putting sheep on a draw is a quick fix that punishes the people that care and pay the bill "hunters" it does nothing to solve the problem "wildlife and habitat management" the real the answer
but that will never happen till we stand up and say deal with the problem and quit punishing us we care about the resource the anti hunters don't

[Duk Dog]

Here is the resolution being put forward to the AFGA conference.

WILDLIFE RESOLUTION NUMBER W-3-2010
Submitted by: Zone 1
Drafted by: Zone 1
Trophy Sheep Licenses
BE IT RESOLVED THAT the waiting period for a hunter who has harvested a trophy sheep to purchase another trophy sheep license be increased from one year to five years.

BRIEF: This change would eliminate those hunters who shoot younger rams every second year. If they knew they could only shoot a ram every five years, they would be more selective. This would also allow a wider range of hunters to harvest a ram.