Again with the etiquette

[Darren N]

Sorry for a repeat thread but I have to see if I'm out of line. Last night I fished by myself NSR in the Edmonton area. I have my usuall spot as I was alone with my flyr rod and like the spot where I cast due to less trees behind me. Three Asain fellows came down of which I said hello to but no response so I left them alone. They may not speak english as I did not hear any english conversations. No problem. The decide to set up all three within 20 yards from me upstream, and cast their pickeral rigs so that it floats down stream right near my casting lanes (keeping everything they catch). I proceed to cast and of course hook lines with one of them. They said nothing to me and I kinda gave them the look "come on guys". I push myself over out of my cast area to give some room and get snagged in a tree. Just prior to that I'm trying to stand on a rock and wipe out on the rocks (of which the mumbled something to see if I was OK) I go up to take my hook out of the tree behind me, and the one fellow on the far end leap frogs over to near my spot where I was originally was casting. I'm now basically done but I felt I was pushed out. I know I don't own the river but where do you draw the line?

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by Darren N

Sorry for a repeat thread but I have to see if I'm out of line. Last night I fished by myself NSR in the Edmonton area. I have my usuall spot as I was alone with my flyr rod and like the spot where I cast due to less trees behind me. Three Asain fellows came down of which I said hello to but no response so I left them alone. They may not speak english as I did not hear any english conversations. No problem. The decide to set up all three within 20 yards from me upstream, and cast their pickeral rigs so that it floats down stream right near my casting lanes (keeping everything they catch). I proceed to cast and of course hook lines with one of them. They said nothing to me and I kinda gave them the look "come on guys". I push myself over out of my cast area to give some room and get snagged in a tree. Just prior to that I'm trying to stand on a rock and wipe out on the rocks (of which the mumbled something to see if I was OK) I go up to take my hook out of the tree behind me, and the one fellow on the far end leap frogs over to near my spot where I was originally was casting. I'm now basically done but I felt I was pushed out. I know I don't own the river but where do you draw the line?

Walk away and call FnW. They are poaching. No sense in confronting them by the sounds of it. Or bring the dogs

[coreya3212]

Sounds to me like there is no etiquette on there behalf. I believe the proper way would be for them to go downstream of you, while leaving you sufficient room to fish. You then would remain in your hole fishing for a period of time, but then you should move upstream slowly and allow the downstream folks an chance to move upstream into the "pocket". You either continue upstream or drop down below them. they then should repeat this process with you, they move through the hole and drop down below you and you proceed up through and so on. that being said, this only works when all parties are attempting to be respectful, so I doubt this would play out as described. ruins a good fishing trip thats for sure.

PS- I dont know the regs on the NSR, but if they are keeping fish and they arent allowed to, x2 on calling F and W.

[boot]

I think the best thing to do is just move on and don't let it ruin your day. The last thing you want is to take it personally and have it ruin an otherwise fun day on the water. You were definitely "pushed out" of your spot, but it doesn't sound like it was done purposefully. It sounds like the 3 guys just don't know any better. For some individuals, giving them "the look" isn't enough for them to understand what they're doing wrong. From their point of view, they probably thought they were giving you enough space.

Anyhow, don't get me wrong... I'm not trying to excuse their behaviour. I'm just suggesting that it's not worth it to take it personally.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by coreya3212

Sounds to me like there is no etiquette on there behalf. I believe the proper way would be for them to go downstream of you, while leaving you sufficient room to fish. You then would remain in your hole fishing for a period of time, but then you should move upstream slowly and allow the downstream folks an chance to move upstream into the "pocket". You either continue upstream or drop down below them. they then should repeat this process with you, they move through the hole and drop down below you and you proceed up through and so on. that being said, this only works when all parties are attempting to be respectful, so I doubt this would play out as described. ruins a good fishing trip thats for sure.

PS- I dont know the regs on the NSR, but if they are keeping fish and they arent allowed to, x2 on calling F and W.

Here in the Hat, poachers hit the river every night, and they travel in huge packs so it is tuff to approach them as I am usually fishing solo. Something has to be done to stop their actions, I don't know what to do? Quite positive they are the ones leaving garbage everywhere too but not sure. Almost at the point where I am going to make a few phonecalls and have a few spots shut down for awhile. It seems to be an ongoing battle, someones make a mess, i clean it up, over and over again.
Not to mention, all the fish are gone. Just find another spot, karma will get them. I know it sux but prolly better to not get involved. My 2 sense.

[alodar]

if they were keeping eyes or sturgeon your best bet would be call FnW and they usually come pretty quick. I have done this in a similar situation like the one u describe. It eliminates any conflict and straightens them out if they are not fishing within the law

[FishingFrenzy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLDzP...feature=search
Take a page out of skippys book! It will soon make people like that leave...
Also one experience i had with this type of person was fishing the NSR near nordegg when we found a perfect little trout hole and some moron with his crappy little inflatable boat under his arm comes out of nowhere and walks right thru the hole! Ive got a idea on the drawing board for people like this... It involves 3 of the largest treble hooks money can buy and a few 1 oz weights, I'll leave it up to you to figure out how it works!

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by alodar

if they were keeping eyes or sturgeon your best bet would be call FnW and they usually come pretty quick. I have done this in a similar situation like the one u describe. It eliminates any conflict and straightens them out if they are not fishing within the law

Wish I could. Have tried. Basically this spot is not on the beaten path and in 4years of fishing it have never seen FnW down there, they wil not stray to far from there trucks for whatever reason. Quite surprised actually that they do not go in there, there is a gzillion illegal firepits that get lit up every night (IN A CITY PARK) but they seem to not care..which is kinda cool cuz I get to fish it, but it's only a matter of time before someone passes out around the fire and it spreads. Come to think of it, never ever even seen a FnW officer in town, only at the lakes, kinda odd.

[Darren N]

I would have to phone to see how quickly they could respond the next time it happens. At most it would just go reported so they can look out for them next time. I do see the fNW everyone once in awhile but I also agree with the one last thread that there are so much stuff going on our riverbeds with homeless people and fires... I would be surprised if they are quickly accessable, but worth a try maybe. I did like that one video that buddy posted. Minus the speeaking parts it was pretty darn close.

[Fishfinder]

Yes, sadly in this case, I do not think anything will be done until real damage is done. This city has the most police officers in the province per capita, yet, a person will never ever see them, they don't come out till the bars close, kinda like burb

[Rockymtnx]

Darren, I feel your pain. Crappy that it happens, but obviously these guys do not have any respect for other outdoorsmen.

Originally Posted by Fishfinder

Walk away and call FnW. They are poaching. No sense in confronting them by the sounds of it. Or bring the dogs

How can you say they are poaching? Darren never mentioned of any illegal activities. Sounds like you are jumping to conclusions.

[ssyd]

I say just let 'em eat those fish they caught and hope they die of mercury poisoning. I sure wouldn't keep anything out of the river in the city.

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by Fishfinder

Here in the Hat, poachers hit the river every night, and they travel in huge packs so it is tuff to approach them as I am usually fishing solo. Something has to be done to stop their actions, I don't know what to do?

Call The Report a Poacher hotline. 1-800-642-3800
If you know they are doing something illegal then F&W will come and investigate. When there is something illegal they have to respond and they should also be following up with you on what they discovered. If you have creditable information they take things pretty seriously.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Darren, I feel your pain. Crappy that it happens, but obviously these guys do not have any respect for other outdoorsmen.



How can you say they are poaching? Darren never mentioned of any illegal activities. Sounds like you are jumping to conclusions.

True. your right, I am jumping to conclusions. Just angry I spose. srry again. I get excited too easily. Sorry Darren. However, I have witnessed this and it's pretty shocking to see what happens once I leave a hole and watch from a distance...jus sayin.
But you are right, I assume too much.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Call The Report a Poacher hotline. 1-800-642-3800
If you know they are doing something illegal then F&W will come and investigate. When there is something illegal they have to respond and they should also be following up with you on what they discovered. If you have creditable information they take things pretty seriously.

will try..............again.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by ssyd

I say just let 'em eat those fish they caught and hope they die of mercury poisoning. I sure wouldn't keep anything out of the river in the city.

X2

I remember my neighbor trying to eat a walleye out the NSR just for the heck of it.

He swears it tasted like motor oil.

[Darren N]

I have had a few fish smoked from the NSR, but that is as close I would get to eating them as well. I'm going to write down that number for poaching plus fish and wildlife just to keep it with me. As far as the limits go I'm not sure exactly what they are. I have to go home and read it (stuck at work). From what I seen they were pulling out goldeye and suckers for the short period of time I was there, but I'm sure you can keep a few of those. If I was starving and had to feed my family then maybe... I can only hope they are keeping and eating the fish for themselves for what it's worth, and we are not eating them in some restaraunt. It just made me mad when I'm trying to catch fish for fun on a fly (which can be challenging at this time of year on the NSR), and they are scooping them out left right and centre never to be caught again. The goldeye will be gone soon down stream.

[AK47]

Maybe because they came from the continent where is so many of them per square foot it is a norm to not respect personal space? I once was icefishing on Macgregor lake, had tip up about 9 ft from the hole where I was jigging in about 6-7 ft depth and guess what, 3 asian guys come near me and one starts drilling new hole with power auger between my hole and my tip up just 3-4 ft from me.... I tried to tell him that it is where I am fishing and they should move at least 15 ft away from me as lake is huge and there is plenty of space for everybody.... they gave me " sorry no English smile" and kept drilling around me.... well, I said screw this and moved away from them.

[Darren N]

I do think the "personal space" and culture does come into question. It was hard for me to post this thread without coming out racist, or picking on a stereotype. I have all the respect for different cultures and "walking in another man's shoes" can go a long way, but at the end of the day this is what it unfortunatly is (or seems to be). I think turning the other cheek is the ultimate answer in this situation, but if laws are broken, or if the man without a voice needs to be spoken for, I have no issue in speaking the truth to strangers.

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by Darren N

I do think the "personal space" and culture does come into question.

Absolutely. There are several immigration and ESL services in my office building, and sometimes I can't even get out of the elevator at work with all of the people pushing and shoving to get into it. I've growled some very unpleasant things at people. They really don't seem to understand that they loose nothing by waiting.

[FishingMOM]

It seems that etiquette and common sense both left of vacation together.

While to you and I, it is common sense to give the other person space while fishing, pay for gas when on an outing with them, and bring your own food while camping/BBQ or even throw in a few extra bucks etc.

I am finding more and more our society is ME ME ME ME ME. As a parent I struggle to teach my son that the world does NOT revolve around his wants and desires constantly. However I find it hard to teach this when he sees other kids/adults who believe the world owes them.

Not sure how to fix the problem but I do try my best at teaching common sense and etiquette to my child and his friends when they are in my presence.

what more can one do?

[ÜberFly]

Mom,

Take him to India (or another developing nation - or some of the first nation communities locally) and give him a sense of how good he (we) has (have) it and how many others live! My (now) wife and I were in India in October and Man-O-man was that an AMAZING exp. In my personal opinion, every "young person" (or anyone else for that matter) needs to travel to a developing nation - it won't move all of (you) them, but attitudes would change (it will take time, but things would change - at least I hope they would, but I could be wearing rosed coloured glasses). What you see on those TV commercials (if you don't change the channel), is reality for many in our country and for BILLIONS of people around the world!!

P

P.S. We went for vaction before any one accuses me of having an "agenda"!! And I would go back in a heart beat!

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

Not sure how to fix the problem but I do try my best at teaching common sense and etiquette to my child and his friends when they are in my presence.

what more can one do?

[Darren N]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

It seems that etiquette and common sense both left of vacation together.

While to you and I, it is common sense to give the other person space while fishing, pay for gas when on an outing with them, and bring your own food while camping/BBQ or even throw in a few extra bucks etc.

I am finding more and more our society is ME ME ME ME ME. As a parent I struggle to teach my son that the world does NOT revolve around his wants and desires constantly. However I find it hard to teach this when he sees other kids/adults who believe the world owes them.

Not sure how to fix the problem but I do try my best at teaching common sense and etiquette to my child and his friends when they are in my presence.

what more can one do?

I agree. It's funny how our parents worried about what the world will be like when we eventually face it. Now I look at my kids wondering what they think or how are they going to survive in this. Teach them the best you can. take them fishing once in awhile, and soak in the memories for later. Before I started this thread I wondered if i was being treated rude purposely, or out of ignorance. Sometimes you have to step back and learn that maybe the other person doesn't know any better. Maybe I did learn something today after all. And also to speak up when it needs to be said. Last night I was close to done. If I just started I probably would of politely said something and moved on.

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Mom,

Take him to India (or another developing nation - or some of the first nation communities locally) and give him a sense of how good he (we) has (have) it!

I completely understand what your saying.
He is a very generous child. I have had him doing community service since he was a baby. He is the first to give someone something if they don't have it. IE money for charity, his old toys, clothing, books etc.

Even when we went on holiday in Hawaii this spring, we came across homeless camps and he gave the kids his pail and shovel. I explained to him (AFTER) that their mommies and/or daddies don't have enough money to have a house, so they sleep in tents.

All it takes is one mishap and anyone can find themselves behind the eight ball.


As for guys fishing too close and tangling lines, we used to just cut their lines and give them back their tackle. They would clue in after a few times of having to tie. But hey what do I know, I fished the banks of the great lakes and the piers. I know when we do hit cochrane I never see anyone else out there. Unless I happen to wander out there on the one weekend when they have a bring a kid fishing thing

[boot]

There are quite a few angry replies on here. Maybe we need to ask ourselves why?

The thing is, we all have our own perception of etiquette, personal space, etc. These ideas are learned over time and they differ from person to person. Most of the time, what we think is "bad etiquette" is just ignorance or a difference of opinion between different people. Anyhow, I find it kind of disturbing that the mere mention of 3 Asian guys fishing brings out so many angry posts about poaching, when in reality, all we really know is that these 3 guys fished a little too close to the original poster.

[Coulee]

Human behaviour never fails to amaze me. What they did to you was ignorant, plain and simple. If they are too lazy and stupid to find another hole then they can go to hell and take their rods with them. A few years ago I was fly fishing one of my spots on the Bow. I made the mistake of landing a nice brown just as a guide and two clients floated by. The guide, upon seeing me land this fish immediately oars the boat right on top of me and orders his clients to get out and start fishing my hole. Which they did. I told all three of them to go "You know what", then I suggested they not pay their guide because he's a useless @#$%^. They quickly left. Sometimes being polite is completely wasted on ignorant people. I hope you're not bothered by those @#$% heads again.

[howlin]

politeness does not work anymore,everyone expects that the other person wont say anything and continue being a dink untill something is actually said(then usually a fight ensues) we the walked on masses must rise up and do anything in our power to counteract this expanding ignorant atitude or it only gets worse.there are a few poeple that ive had to deal with in boats that try to highjack my hole ,they tend to leave with i start casting into the boat(caught a 5 pound tacklebox last year that im really proud of)

[FishingFrenzy]

Originally Posted by howlin

politeness does not work anymore,everyone expects that the other person wont say anything and continue being a dink untill something is actually said(then usually a fight ensues) we the walked on masses must rise up and do anything in our power to counteract this expanding ignorant atitude or it only gets worse.there are a few poeple that ive had to deal with in boats that try to highjack my hole ,they tend to leave with i start casting into the boat(caught a 5 pound tacklebox last year that im really proud of)

Now there's a good way to get free tackle!

[Guitarplayingfish]

I don't know where this post led to, nor did I care to read, but after reading the first 10 posts, I would like to say this; If there are people poaching fish out of the NSR or the SSR, or anywhere for that matter, They need to be stopped. You either call fish and wildlife, or you call some buddies. Personally, I would do both and probably be gone by the time F&W showed up (depending on the situation). This is unacceptable, and people who poach deserve to be punished to the fullest extent. Not only do they ruin the environment by polluting our rivers and lakes, but they harvest excess amounts of fish, leaving the population of fish significantly lower for future generations. As much as I disagree with a few of the regulations, they are there for a reason. Follow them or reap the consequences.

[RedHeadedFisherman]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

Absolutely. There are several immigration and ESL services in my office building, and sometimes I can't even get out of the elevator at work with all of the people pushing and shoving to get into it. I've growled some very unpleasant things at people. They really don't seem to understand that they loose nothing by waiting.

Or they just PRETEND not to understand!.. and all this turn the other cheek crap sometimes dose not work.. a strong talking to leading up to fishing 2 feet from them! maybe will tell em something!.. I would have to assess the situation on its merits at the time.. but i have been known to get a tad upset!.. and 2 Aisin guys, crowding me when i was there first, and they put on the ( no speka English) look is crap!.. i always have F&R Report a Poacher hotline. 1-800-642-3800 in my cell phone, and have started using it more than getting pi**ed off!.. I get p/oed too easily.

Quote from AK47
Maybe because they came from the continent where is so many of them per square foot it is a norm to not respect personal space? I once was ice fishing on Macgregor lake, had tip up about 9 ft from the hole where I was jigging in about 6-7 ft depth and guess what, 3 Asian guys come near me and one starts drilling new hole with power auger between my hole and my tip up just 3-4 ft from me.... I tried to tell him that it is where I am fishing and they should move at least 15 ft away from me as lake is huge and there is plenty of space for everybody.... they gave me " sorry no English smile" and kept drilling around me.... well, I said screw this and moved away from them.

between my hole and my tip up just 3-4 ft from me
1. they obviously knew you were fishing there as you tip-up and open hole and you there.
2 I find Asian’s (some, not all) just don't give a dam, cuz they think we can put on our "we don't speaka English" routine and get away with it!
me i would have started fishing in there hole and said 'heys thanks for drilling a new hole for me in my area!.
RHF