$533 per month tax free child benefit !

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by SBE2

It is not the responsibility of society and others to be on the hook for your lack of foresight. The lack of economic or savings education for many in the 45+ years age range is becoming increasingly frightening. If you can't do some math and look ahead at what its going to take to survive it is only your fault. If you rely on the lie that the company pension will be enough, you're a fool. If you don't save a bit more and choose to spend money on smokes/booze/trips/toys whatever, you have created your own destiny, not anyone else's fault. Nobody is saying you didn't work hard, but your future is your responsibility. When future living costs are far out pacing your pension plan or realistic retirement goals you need to look at what you can cut or if you can work a bit more to have more to save. Too many people want to blame everybody else or are blind to the fact that they were outworked or out sacrificed by those that will be ok in their later years, yet they think they should have the same of those with some foresight. It's the truth, and it's happening more and more, we have yet to see the big wave of people that are about to realize freedom 55 is a pipe dream, freedom 65 could be a stretch, and Walmart greeter at 70-75 is the more likely reality. There are many in their 50's that are so beyond screwed that they don't even know it yet that it's scary, but it is their responsibility to look ahead not for others to fund there lack of interest or involvement in the financial stability of their future and retirement. My 2 cents...

Wasn't talking about myself. I have moved across this country from one end to the other, for work have always paid my bills, paid my taxes, been mortgage free for more than a decade and live humbly within my means. My banker says even though I live very humbly I am wealthier than 90% of the in debt, mortgaged to the hilt with no savings people who live in this oil boom town.

That said there are not enough jobs out there with benefits or payroll that every person who tries can earn enough to afford to set themselves up for a decent retirement, no matter how frugal and humble they live there isn't enough left over to take care of their futures. It's easy for you to say they are losers who work hard, but they are the people that business depends on to make their profits. For every person fortunate to have a great job position there are others just as qualified and deserving that don't get those positions, in fact there is a lot of deadwood that has those positions and are only there because they are connected.

As for CPP it bothers me to see that if I took the money I have paid in to CPP for 35 years and invested, it could be a substantial sum today. CPP is a rip off, no one in their right mind would put their money into it if they were not forcefully legislated to do so. We should be allowed to opt out of it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Wasn't talking about myself. I have moved across this country from one end to the other, for work have always paid my bills, paid my taxes, been mortgage free for more than a decade and live humbly within my means. My banker says even though I live very humbly I am wealthier than 90% of the in debt, mortgaged to the hilt with no savings people who live in this oil boom town.

That said there are not enough jobs out there with benefits or payroll that every person who tries can earn enough to afford to set themselves up for a decent retirement, no matter how frugal and humble they live there isn't enough left over to take care of their futures. It's easy for you to say they are losers who work hard, but they are the people that business depends on to make their profits. For every person fortunate to have a great job position there are others just as qualified and deserving that don't get those positions, in fact there is a lot of deadwood that has those positions and are only there because they are connected.

As for CPP it bothers me to see that if I took the money I have paid in to CPP for 35 years and invested, it could be a substantial sum today. CPP is a rip off, no one in their right mind would put their money into it if they were not forcefully legislated to do so. We should be allowed to opt out of it.

I would have also opted out of CPP, it's just another example of our government making decisuons for us, and telling us that it is for our own good.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I would have also opted out of CPP, it's just another example of our government making decisuons for us, and telling us that it is for our own good.

Agreed, I would've opt out of the CPP and EI if I only could....what a waist of money! Along with WCB!

[Vengeance78]

Well said elk! CPP and EI are both ponzi schemes (the former more so than the latter).

I can't imagine why I (anyone) would want the gov't to manage my money and that can be extrapolated to tax revenues as well.

We, the sheeple, need to take back control of our gov't as it's just become one big cluster**** of mismanagement and entitlement.

Topically we appear to be a democracy, but in reality, it matters not which party is elected for they are all backing their corporate sponsored agendas and their own self interests.

I would run for office but I'm just not a sociopath like most politicians are and too honest an, straightforward and truthful by far to ever make it. Also, if you don't bow to money then you'd never get elected anyway or at the very least it would be one hell of an uphill battle. I guess we'd need a party as well since as an independent you'd be largely ineffectual.

Anyone one to start the "True North' party with me? lol

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I would have also opted out of CPP, it's just another example of our government making decisuons for us, and telling us that it is for our own good.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Vengeance78

Well said elk! CPP and EI are both ponzi schemes (the former more so than the latter).

I can't imagine why I (anyone) would want the gov't to manage my money and that can be extrapolated to tax revenues as well.

We, the sheeple, need to take back control of our gov't as it's just become one big cluster**** of mismanagement and entitlement.

Topically we appear to be a democracy, but in reality, it matters not which party is elected for they are all backing their corporate sponsored agendas and their own self interests.

I would run for office but I'm just not a sociopath like most politicians are and too honest an, straightforward and truthful by far to ever make it. Also, if you don't bow to money then you'd never get elected anyway or at the very least it would be one hell of an uphill battle. I guess we'd need a party as well since as an independent you'd be largely ineffectual.

Anyone one to start the "True North' party with me? lol

Welcome to the board.

Problem with starting any sort of a small government party is there are too many people in this country that like big government and think that the answer to any government problem is more government. A lot of people think $1000 worth of healthcare for $2000 is a good deal.

I actually think Harper himself is a small (or at least smallerish) government guy, but once you get into the fold it's pretty hard to stay in power and make those kind of changes to the bureaucratic grind house. Or...they just get in there and learn there's more steak and caviar to go around if they don't rock the boat.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Skybuster

Are you aware that you can have your TFSA invested in Mutual Funds?

Since I do not own TFSA's so that would be impossible.

Are you suggesting that you can have access to YOUR OWN money? for free?

cool

[Jalan]

EI and CPP are horrible....until you need it.

I bet most of the people who complain about EI would be the first in line if they lost their job.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Leafy

EZM,

You are out in left field when it comes to TSFA's.... Investment bus that is the BEST thing the general public is offered...

You are saying that TFSA's are the best thing that is available to the public? at under 2% ??????

Sorry leafy ...... just look at the returns.

An average Mutual will return 10% - and you will loose an average of 1.7% of that in taxes still netting more that 8% greater than a TFSA.

Keep in mind TFS shelter only the gains. Equities and Mutuals are only taxed on the gains - it's apples to apples.

It just that 10 apples is more than 2 apples.

If you think I'm in left field ..... you are on another planet.

I'm not trying to beat you up - but you are wrong. 100% wrong. You have been lied to and mislead. Sorry dude. I don't have an easier way to explain it to you.

Ask any established finance person or investor (that you trust) and see if I'm still out in left field.

[rccam1]

Originally Posted by Mountain Adventurer

I guess what I'm saying basically is that it wouldn't matter if I were unemployed or working. Having a family is expensive and any extra help from the government is appreciated, especially at the moment. I paid my bills and premiums for the past 25 years ,would I rather be unemployed? No I would not, you make it sound like I want this or any of us want this. Give your head a shake bud

That government does have that little extra help for you until they take it from me!

[rottie]

Originally Posted by EZM

You are saying that TFSA's are the best thing that is available to the public? at under 2% ??????

Sorry leafy ...... just look at the returns.

An average Mutual will return 10% - and you will loose an average of 1.7% of that in taxes still netting more that 8% greater than a TFSA.

Keep in mind TFS shelter only the gains. Equities and Mutuals are only taxed on the gains - it's apples to apples.

It just that 10 apples is more than 2 apples.

If you think I'm in left field ..... you are on another planet.

I'm not trying to beat you up - but you are wrong. 100% wrong. You have been lied to and mislead. Sorry dude. I don't have an easier way to explain it to you.

Ask any established finance person or investor (that you trust) and see if I'm still out in left field.

You can invest your TFSA in the same mutual that are earning the 10 % , and have that 10 % still sheltered.

[Vengeance78]

I can't say whether that's true or not, but are you talking from personal experience here...?

For myself, who is all I can really speak for, I was unemployed for about one year - was trying to start up my own small business - wasn't successful - and all I did was burn cash for the start-up as well as paid all my own bills, etc. without once ever thinking of EI as I had the means to take care of myself.

I just did what good ol' commonsense told me to do while being employed; namely to put money away .a.k.a. savings

I feel people should look to themselves and stay within their means for when that time comes when they 'need' EI, well, had they looked to themselves during the good times and been responsible as well as self-reliant, they wouldn't need EI, would they?

Originally Posted by Jalan

EI and CPP are horrible....until you need it.

I bet most of the people who complain about EI would be the first in line if they lost their job.

[Vengeance78]

Thank you for the welcome!!!

On most points below, I completely agree with you. It certainly appears to be the case that people love big brother taking care of them in its all encompassing embrace.

And without a doubt that trying to get into power and affect changes which would unravel the current sickly system is a quick way to find yourself with no friends.

Perhaps some people come into gov't with the expectation of actually doing something of the sort, but are then taken aside by the status quo-ers and explained how things work (for the good of themselves) and they either eat that caviar or if not willing to play ball, drummed out and/or marginalized.

In my mind, the only way to start a party with the goal of giving back the power to the people would be by finding like-minded people, who wish to run, in every riding in a blitz type campaign. Shock and awe.

The trouble there I postulate is that sane people would not want to run for office!!!

As for Harper wanting a smaller gov't, I think that couldn;t be further from the truth based on things he's done while in power. Bill C-51 says that a clear as day.

Originally Posted by rugatika

Welcome to the board.

Problem with starting any sort of a small government party is there are too many people in this country that like big government and think that the answer to any government problem is more government. A lot of people think $1000 worth of healthcare for $2000 is a good deal.

I actually think Harper himself is a small (or at least smallerish) government guy, but once you get into the fold it's pretty hard to stay in power and make those kind of changes to the bureaucratic grind house. Or...they just get in there and learn there's more steak and caviar to go around if they don't rock the boat.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by Mountain Adventurer

Ok yes I feel that I am entitled to it, like that isn't obvious just like YOU would be entitled to it as well if you had children or EI if you lost your job

Wow. "I have kids so government should give me money". I actually feel bad for you. I can imagine how you handle other aspects of your life.

Originally Posted by EZM

You are saying that TFSA's are the best thing that is available to the public? at under 2% ??????

Sorry leafy ...... just look at the returns.

An average Mutual will return 10% - and you will loose an average of 1.7% of that in taxes still netting more that 8% greater than a TFSA.

Keep in mind TFS shelter only the gains. Equities and Mutuals are only taxed on the gains - it's apples to apples.

Hey EZM, Ill give you 100k. You guarantee me 6% on those mutual funds, you can keep any profits. You will have to post your house as collateral. Its an easy 4k a year for the next 25 years?

Or, if you would like you could PM me. I think you are probably a young man, and you do not really understand enough about it. If somebody would have grabbed my ears when I was younger and explained to me how it worked I would be thinking about retiring soon instead of when I am 90. Let me know if you want to chat about it I might be able to clear some misconceptions in regards to investing you have.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Wow a kid costing $1500....does he/she wear True Religion jeans and have Banana Republic sleepers??

How many sports are they in?

LC

Child Care alone for a kid under 5 is 900 bucks. Add in food and clothing and I could see it easily being 1200. Thats not including any sports or arts activities.

[raab]

Originally Posted by rugatika

i always wonder how my grandparents and their generation came to be such productive members of society without all these government programs.

Society is not, and should not be responsible for the carrying on of your genetic material. You having kids is your decision, and your responsibility. Like oko, i get the benefits of me paying to educate your kids...if i didn't, a lot wouldn't bother apparently.

Going by the growing entitlement mentality i keep hearing these days, i am presently more than a little skeptical that this batch of kids are going to be any sort of a gift to society anyway, with some shining exceptions of course.

Your grandparent and parent HAD THE FAMILY ALLOWANCE!!! How many times does it need to be said???

[Hydro1]

Originally Posted by raab

Your grandparent and parent HAD THE FAMILY ALLOWANCE!!! How many times does it need to be said???

Just because you are so pushy about it i talked to my dad.
Nope, they never got a penny from the government.
When things got tough, both my parents picked up a second job.

[raab]

Originally Posted by EZM

Since I do not own TFSA's so that would be impossible.

Are you suggesting that you can have access to YOUR OWN money? for free?

cool

You can open a TFSA account that allows you to control your investments. There are some restrictions but its worth looking into if you enjoy managing your investments.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Hydro1

Just because you are so pushy about it i talked to my dad.
Nope, they never got a penny from the government.
When things got tough, both my parents picked up a second job.

How old is your dad? The Family allowance started in 1945 and was sent out to every family in the country. From Wikipedia "A baby bonus was introduced in Canada following the Second World War. A family allowance scheme known as the "baby bonus" made regular monthly payments of $5 to $8 to all parents of children under 16."

[Hydro1]

Give me a second....
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...ily-allowance/
Raab
He was born in 62, lived with parents until 75 moved out and was on his own until he met my mom. I was their first kid born in 93.
To his knowledge, his parents did not collect any sort of allowance either.

[raab]

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/the-baby-bonus Pretty cool old footage...

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Jalan

EI and CPP are horrible....until you need it.

I bet most of the people who complain about EI would be the first in line if they lost their job.

I have worked for 35 years without ever drawing EI. My TFSA is self directed so I have total control over my investments.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by rottie

You can invest your TFSA in the same mutual that are earning the 10 % , and have that 10 % still sheltered.

No.

ALL Equities/GICs/exchange traded funds (and other investment vehicles) are not subject to taxation until they are exercised. It doesn't matter if it was bought by cash, through a TFSA or granted to you through an option program.

A TFSA investment is subject to the same capital gain taxation rules as the TFSA was used to fund/secure/borrow against the investment vehicle as, in essence, and under the taxation laws, is no longer a TFSA, it's now a security, a stock, a bond a whatever. It has been converted at this point to another product which falls under a different set of regulations.

You are not sheltering 10% - that's not how it works. I wish it did !!!!

Having said that ......

Since this is exactly the same as the investment vehicle itself there is really no advantage to using your TFSA itself to fund or hold an investment.

There is no disadvantage either I guess.

My point was simple - a TFSA, itself, is not a great "investment" a safe/intermediate mutual fund will return far better results for you.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by EZM

You are saying that TFSA's are the best thing that is available to the public? at under 2% ??????

Sorry leafy ...... just look at the returns.

An average Mutual will return 10% - and you will loose an average of 1.7% of that in taxes still netting more that 8% greater than a TFSA.

Keep in mind TFS shelter only the gains. Equities and Mutuals are only taxed on the gains - it's apples to apples.

It just that 10 apples is more than 2 apples.

If you think I'm in left field ..... you are on another planet.

I'm not trying to beat you up - but you are wrong. 100% wrong. You have been lied to and mislead. Sorry dude. I don't have an easier way to explain it to you.

Ask any established finance person or investor (that you trust) and see if I'm still out in left field.

Please stop this madness!!!!! Listen to what other people are trying to tell you!!! The TFSA is the same as any other investment non registered account with only 2 differences:
1. There is a maximum amount of $10,000 per annum that you can transfer into it and
2. Any capital gain, DIVIDENTS or interest earned inside this account is tax free.
You can also withdraw the money from this account as much as you want.

[raab]

Originally Posted by EZM

No.

ALL Equities/GICs/exchange traded funds (and other investment vehicles) are not subject to taxation until they are exercised. It doesn't matter if it was bought by cash, through a TFSA or granted to you through an option program.

A TFSA investment is subject to the same capital gain taxation rules as the TFSA was used to fund/secure/borrow against the investment vehicle as, in essence, and under the taxation laws, is no longer a TFSA, it's now a security, a stock, a bond a whatever. It has been converted at this point to another product which falls under a different set of regulations.

You are not sheltering 10% - that's not how it works.

Having said that ......

Since this is exactly the same as the investment vehicle itself there is really no advantage to using your TFSA itself to fund or hold an investment.

There is no disadvantage either I guess.

My point was simple - a TFSA, itself, is not a great "investment" a safe/intermediate mutual fund will return far better results for you.

Im not sure what your trying to say? A TFSA is just an account where your capital gains aren't taxed and there are some restrictions on your investments. It shouldn't be compared to a mutual fund…

[KGB]

Originally Posted by raab

Im not sure what your trying to say? A TFSA is just an account where your capital gains aren't taxed and there are some restrictions on your investments. It shouldn't be compared to a mutual fund…

I think he is smoking something GOOD.... his comments make no sense at all!

[Hydro1]

Originally Posted by raab

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/the-baby-bonus Pretty cool old footage...

Wont work for me...

[raab]

Originally Posted by Hydro1

Wont work for me...

It wouldn't load in Safari for me but Firefox it worked…

[Mountain Adventurer]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Wow. "I have kids so government should give me money". I actually feel bad for you. I can imagine how you handle other aspects of your life.




Hey EZM, Ill give you 100k. You guarantee me 6% on those mutual funds, you can keep any profits. You will have to post your house as collateral. Its an easy 4k a year for the next 25 years?

Or, if you would like you could PM me. I think you are probably a young man, and you do not really understand enough about it. If somebody would have grabbed my ears when I was younger and explained to me how it worked I would be thinking about retiring soon instead of when I am 90. Let me know if you want to chat about it I might be able to clear some misconceptions in regards to investing you have.

I wouldn't feel bad for me there sneeze, you know nothing about me and all your shots are just that, a burpsnart in the wind with no direction into any kind of rational thought on what these systems are in place for. I'm undecided on whether you're upset that I have saved and have money for this slow down until I can find the job I'm entitled to or your just upset because of the way our government systems work ? It's funny that the government seems to agree with everything I just said and to go even further this system allows me to except nothing less than 80 % of the wage I did before I was unemployed, so someone of my caliber isn't forced to work at mcdonalds. Doesn't that one burn your behind You...me every tax paying citizen are entitled to these benefits here in Canada, maybe you and the others who feel we as Canadians shouldn't be entitled to these benefits should move to Russia, perhaps Mongolia I'm sure you would fit right in over there or in any of these communist regimes.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by Mountain Adventurer

You...me every tax paying citizen are entitled to these benefits here in Canada, maybe you and the others who feel we as Canadians shouldn't be entitled to these benefits should move to Russia, perhaps Mongolia I'm sure you would fit right in over there or in any of these communist regimes.

Okay okay, you win, I am wrong and a communist.

Can you answer one question I have though? Something to help me realize just how wrong I am - Is this your first time on pogie?

[Mountain Adventurer]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Okay okay, you win, I am wrong and a communist.

Can you answer one question I have though? Something to help me realize just how wrong I am - Is this your first time on pogie?

Yes it is except for the short time in college for trades school. I haven't had to claim anything before and actually nothing hurts my pride worse at the moment than having to be the governments hand out. I'm one of thousands in my field so I'm not alone here. Nothing but people seeking employment in the sections where employers post adds is some what discouraging as well.