First castle, now Bighorn

[NUK SOO KOW]

Shannon Phillips and the Y2Y are at it again. Taking the whole eastern slopes of Alberta!!! Say goodbye to public land as we know it!!

https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjo...?client=safari

https://y2y.net/news/updates-from-th...19s-headwaters

Take a look here to see if one of these is YOUR area. It's not about quads and the cows anymore. They want ALL the land protected period. Atv, snowmobile, random camping, firewood gathering, fishing, hunting, grazing will all be affected.
https://landuse.alberta.ca/REGIONALP...s/default.aspx


This needs to be stopped!!! If we don't ALL put our differences aside and stand united we're hooped. No one will have public land access anywhere anymore.
Whether you like ATVs or not, the NDP are simply using them as a scapegoat to grab lands. soon as they say "it's to protect headwaters" there is no going back.
The only camping our children will learn is how to try and find an open stall, register and buy firewood.
The NDP know they will NOT be Re elected and therefore railroading as much through as they can!!! Once these are parks it will be very difficult to undo.
Future governments will be screwed example if we ever needed more pipelines going west HOW would they get approved going through a provincial wildland park??
There is so much more to these land grabs than people realize. Time to wake up.

[Newview01]

Yeah if only people would wake up.

What a joke. Anyone who voted NDP ought to be ashamed. Anyone who is supporting the Castle plan doesn't deserve to use the area again.

[reddeerguy2015]

So what do we need to do to stop this ??

[ESOXangler]

This **** has to stop! I can respect protecting areas from resource development like oil and gas or clear cutting but this Y2Y thing is crap. I wonder is the NDP own shares in MEC?

[bigbaddad]

Just one more tiny nick in our freedom. The big picture is r really scary.

[lead chucker]

Well,well,well. All I can say is good luck rallying the troups up in Edmonton area.maybe they'll get the same support up there as we did from the people.

[rugatika]

Yep...didn't see that coming.

Let's give them the people that rifle hunt. Maybe they'll leave bow hunters and fishermen alone.

Is anyone paying attention yet?

[Redfrog]

Maybe some of the members who thought Shannon Phillips was going to do wondrous stuff for hunters and fishermen could chime in and explain what happened.

I don't understand why anyone who hunts or fishes would vote NDP. Just look at their record everywhere they have been gov't.

[Fur]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Maybe some of the members who thought Shannon Phillips was going to do wondrous stuff for hunters and fishermen could chime in and explain what happened.

I don't understand why anyone who hunts or fishes would vote NDP. Just look at their record everywhere they have been gov't.

Sometimes the only way to learn is to experience it, unfortunately.

[NUK SOO KOW]

Castle and Bighorn are NOT done deals yet. Just what to do??im not sure

[MathewsArcher]

http://cpaws-southernalberta.org/new...ure-of-alberta

Planning in Southern Alberta is still ongoing as well and to be completed by the end of 2017

[elkdump]

Anywhere that is out of bounds to atv,s and off road vehicles on public land is just just fine with me ,

Sadly with more restrictions in Alberta , morons on motorized machines intent on destroying wild places will swarm to BC ,

[ETOWNCANUCK]

The problem is that those that favour this and anything else are the ones that are going to win.

The anti's win because they are the ones who get organized enough to make a big enough noise, that the government listens.

Those that are against come out a little too late.

Where are the groups that are Ok with the way things currently are.

They don't exist.

There is no one campaigning the Government to keep things the way they are.

But there are the ones who are clamouring for change.

no one who ventures into the back country wants to see a park.

but those that venture into the back country and see the havoc that gets left behind after some careless users have left
are the ones clamouring for the change.

Both sides love the area.

But it's the ones that no longer want to see the damage done by inappropriate behaviour, that are going to win.

Unfortunately, those that don't want to see the change are late to the party as always.

and those that are vehemently against don't usually come dressed to the party all dressed up nicely.
They're the party crashers who come off noisily and abusive and unnecessarily
angry who will always get shown the door.

People don't listen when you're ****ed off.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by NUK SOO KOW

Shannon Phillips and the Y2Y are at it again. Taking the whole eastern slopes of Alberta!!! Say goodbye to public land as we know it!!

https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjo...?client=safari

https://y2y.net/news/updates-from-th...19s-headwaters

Take a look here to see if one of these is YOUR area. It's not about quads and the cows anymore. They want ALL the land protected period. Atv, snowmobile, random camping, firewood gathering, fishing, hunting, grazing will all be affected.
https://landuse.alberta.ca/REGIONALP...s/default.aspx


This needs to be stopped!!! If we don't ALL put our differences aside and stand united we're hooped. No one will have public land access anywhere anymore.
Whether you like ATVs or not, the NDP are simply using them as a scapegoat to grab lands. soon as they say "it's to protect headwaters" there is no going back.
The only camping our children will learn is how to try and find an open stall, register and buy firewood.
The NDP know they will NOT be Re elected and therefore railroading as much through as they can!!! Once these are parks it will be very difficult to undo.
Future governments will be screwed example if we ever needed more pipelines going west HOW would they get approved going through a provincial wildland park??
There is so much more to these land grabs than people realize. Time to wake up.

Can you please point to the information that states they want to stop say fishing for instance?

[morinj]

Looks like the people of Alberta who enjoy being outdoors will have to form agroup of volunteers willing to go door to door, with a petition, and have people personally sign them. A large amount of signatures may be exactly what we need, and no doubt easily obtained!

[NUK SOO KOW]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Can you please point to the information that states they want to stop say fishing for instance?

There have been requests made in the past for the elimination of fishing for threatened species such as cutthroat and bull trout in the eastern slopes. By groups such as Y2Y. Now that there is a minister in place who is s huge supporter of these groups, I'm sure the day will come.
Right now it's divide and conquer, getting different groups of outdoor enthusiasts against eachother(Atv vs camper) as an example. And then they will knock them off one by one. Will try to find link for you.

[Klondike]

http://lethbridgeherald.com/commenta...door-pursuits/

Off-highway vehicle users helped build

trail network

Brent Hodgson

PRESIDENT, ALBERTA OFF HIGHWAY VEHICLE ASSOCIATION

Over the past 30 years, responsible user groups, such as the Alberta Off Highway Vehicle Association (AOHVA), invested millions of dollars and thousands of volunteer hours to build trails for motorized recreation in Alberta. We have hauled material, built bridges and created a sustainable trail network to ensure that responsible trail users have a safe place to ride, hike, mountain bike and generally enjoy the wilderness of our great province. We did this without any government support.

We believed the government agreed with our aim of limiting environmental impacts while encouraging safety. We believed that responsible trail usage in the Castle could continue. We believed these things because the Alberta government told us so, repeatedly and in writing.

Then, with the stroke of a pen, Premier Notley decided Albertans could not use any of the trails in the Castle area. Just like that. And we expect these land-use parameters are to be the template for the rest of Alberta.

Despite clear messages from the government, land-use process workshops, and statements repeatedly made by Minister Phillips herself that designated trail systems would remain, the fact is: this minister and the premier had the Order in Council amending the South Saskatchewan Regional Plan (SSRP) passed Jan. 20, 2017, banning OHVs and random camping – even though they tout public input sessions running through to March 20, 2017.

This is deeply disappointing, because many OHV users optimistically and perhaps foolishly believed that this would be the government that would work with us to build a more interconnected, environmentally sustainable and safer trail network, not just in the Castle, but throughout Alberta.

When MLAs stand up and say, “Healthy watersheds, sustainable resource development, and responsible recreational activity are not mutually exclusive” (MLA Cam Westhead, Hansard, March 10, 2016), Albertans should be able to take them at their word. Apparently not. We will, however, stand by our word – the AOHVA and responsible OHV users support the creation of multi-use parks and we believe motorized recreation can continue in the Castle if it is managed properly.

That’s why we’re calling on the government to work with AOHVA to determine what trails should be revitalized and which ones may need to be reclaimed before any decisions on OHV use in the Castle are finalized.

If you love Alberta’s outdoors, it is time to take notice. Our wilderness is now political cannon fodder. Anglers, hunters, snowmobilers, fur harvesters – we are all in this together.

The AOHVA, in collaboration with other Albertans, have repeatedly informed the provincial government of our interest to rapidly develop the framework for a user-funded, sustainable, environmentally responsible trail network; a system that could not only improve Alberta’s environment but also act as a significant economic driver through increased tourism – a model proven successful in other provinces.

OHV users, and all Albertans, are ready for the difficult conversations the government has called for but make no mistake – we want to see some meaningful action out of them rather than political posturing at our expense.

We’re ready to do our part; are you, minister?

AOHVA is a non-profit organization representing the interests of 165,000 off-highway vehicle recreation users that is dedicated to providing safe motorized recreational activities in an environmentally responsible manner. Its efforts focus on education, safety, and the revitalization and restoration of trails and facilities on both public and private land throughout Alberta.

[hilt134]

My issue is its easy to see why these things happen. To me its the same as ending target shooting on crown land. It sucks and its the start of a bad cycle but it isnt coming out of left feild. It was a natural reaction that if we didnt deal with the morons in our group someone else would but it shafts us all. What i would like to see is. instead of creating a new park and the ridiculas amount of money that would cost. If they threw all the money into conservation enforcement so that we actually had a large enough force to make sure these things didnt happen in the first place. it would be a far better investment.

[HoytCRX32]

Originally Posted by morinj

Looks like the people of Alberta who enjoy being outdoors will have to form agroup of volunteers willing to go door to door, with a petition, and have people personally sign them. A large amount of signatures may be exactly what we need, and no doubt easily obtained!

The point is, many people who love Alberta's outdoors do not necessarily love ATVs
That's why Notley is comfortable with this

[sjd]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Maybe some of the members who thought Shannon Phillips was going to do wondrous stuff for hunters and fishermen could chime in and explain what happened.

I don't understand why anyone who hunts or fishes would vote NDP. Just look at their record everywhere they have been gov't.

The record so far is actually pretty good on conservation if that means anything to you. Actually enforcing rules on public land (notice how conservation officers have increased and abandoned campers in bush are being enforced). Bunch of land up north conserved for caribou.

Making new parks that are specifically open to hunting and fishing?

I can see why ATVers are angry but they don't represent me.

Interesting that the original article shows 80% support for making Bighorn a park in the city and 65% support in rural areas. They are making parks because it's popular. You can't win a public opinion battle when the opposition has so many good images of damage. Been out to the designated trails of the Bighorn Dam recently? Every hillside rutted with illegal routes.

[rugatika]

I'm really loving how people still think this is about atv's. #rudeawakening.

[Fur]

I think the big issue which is unsolvable is increasing population.
More users, more abuse, more use.

I do not know what the divide up in Alberta is in regards to OHV use areas and non-OHV use areas are. But to me if I do not want to be with OHV riders I go to a place where they are not allowed. Crazy idea I know...

The people who seem to want them banned all seem to be walking those trails since they are seeing all the damage they do, are fishing those streams where the OHV cross, running into OHV etc. Sounds like you guys are benefiting from those made trails to access your spots. Now I've never been to Castle area but I doubt the OHV trails are so dense that it is hard to find a spot where they are not. I could be wrong though. So correct me if I am.

I think there is enough designated non-OHV use areas already out there in my opinion. If we further and further restrict OHV to smaller and smaller areas, those areas will see increase use and the natural damaged cause by OHV will be increased. Just my two cents though.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by rugatika

I'm really loving how people still think this is about atv's. #rudeawakening.

Some people have thick skulls rug. Also, some people can be better classified as sheep.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Fur

I think the big issue which is unsolvable is increasing population.
More users, more abuse, more use.

I do not know what the divide up in Alberta is in regards to OHV use areas and non-OHV use areas are. But to me if I do not want to be with OHV riders I go to a place where they are not allowed. Crazy idea I know...

The people who seem to want them banned all seem to be walking those trails since they are seeing all the damage they do, are fishing those streams where the OHV cross, running into OHV etc. Sounds like you guys are benefiting from those made trails to access your spots. Now I've never been to Castle area but I doubt the OHV trails are so dense that it is hard to find a spot where they are not. I could be wrong though. So correct me if I am.

I think there is enough designated non-OHV use areas already out there in my opinion. If we further and further restrict OHV to smaller and smaller areas, those areas will see increase use and the natural damaged cause by OHV will be increased. Just my two cents though.

I have suggested this as well. You want to hunt with out ATVs? Go to the Willmore, among others.

[woods_walker]

Most of the bighorn had atv restrictions and snowmobile restrictions put on it since the late 90s. Designated trails that are only open at certain times of the year and closed when the government deems it necessary. The atv group was able to do some trail maintenance to reroute trails to higher ground and put in bridges over some of the smaller creeks. It turned into a nice place to go for a ride, or a hike, or a horseback. I now need to hike into some of the places I once went on quad or ride horse into. There is no logging in most of the area. Meadows full of overgrown bog birch. Still few elk, lots of wolves, seen grizzly bears, shot sheep. The place is basically a park compared to the areas to the west already. A place like the bighorn is most of it is only accessible by healthy hikers or on horseback. What difference will there be by naming it an official park, other than to potentially ban some of the other activities that are already limited. I remember when they first closed some areas to atvs and changed a number of the random camp areas to designated horse camping spots by the hummingbird. Took some nice spots that you would be willing to pitch a tent and now they smell like horse urine and crap and after the last time I will never camp there again. Come to think of it, I should join the ban the horses group since the last time I was there the horses ruined my enjoyment of the area. Same as when I was in the Wilmore and walked through knee deep rutted horse trails with 6 inches of sloppy mud. Might as well contribute to the divide and conquer groups as some other users may have limited my enjoyment of the area.

[borisdavenport]

Originally Posted by morinj

Looks like the people of Alberta who enjoy being outdoors will have to form agroup of volunteers willing to go door to door, with a petition, and have people personally sign them. A large amount of signatures may be exactly what we need, and no doubt easily obtained!

How is it possible?

[Yaha Tinda]

Bighorn Wildland Park, I like it. Soldier on!

[densa44]

What percent do you figure of hunters and atv users would vote for the NDP no matter what they did? Not lots I would think.

Now here we have an issue that can annoy their opponents and expand their base all at the same time. It can even take the crown land back and make it public. To a government this sort of issue is ideal.

It may be too late, the best way to stop it would have been to make the areas "special multi use areas" before that idea got trumped by this idea which the government supports.

Do you think we can move them a bit to allow hunting, like camp wainwright?

[morinj]

Originally Posted by borisdavenport

How is it possible?

If we can put people on the moon, cure diseases, and produce charities to raise money for some of the most well funded hospitals in the world, I'm sure there is someone out there that can produce a petition to put a stop to the that the profiteer has planned for our great outdoors! Am I the guy to do it? No! I would definitely not have a problem advocating, and signing it, nore would anybody else who sees the bigger picture, as to what's going on here. It's all about the money, and this is funds that we will never see!

[morinj]

I'm sure that if a legal petition was to be created, most if not all ATV, and Rv dealerships, would carry a copy, and encourage their patrons to sign! Sporting goods stores aswell! I bet you could achieve more then 10000 signatures alone, out of these establishments!