First castle, now Bighorn

[Klondike]

About 110 people showed up for the peaceful protest

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1011...2630210254891/

[6.5 shooter]

Remember to thank all your NDP/Liberal voting buddies the next time you see them.

[Walleyedude]

Originally Posted by Taco

If that what it take to restore or save some of what we had then so be it, colour me green

A one line response that sums up narrow minded thinking at its finest.

I hope I never see the day when your right to hunt and fish in the Castle, let alone on Alberta's public lands, is taken from you.

If and when that happens, I hope you remember this post and the side you chose VERY clearly.

I know I will. So will your children...

[lmtada]

I think the NDP don't like guys like me.

https://youtu.be/CnKlm2_pRr0

[ram crazy]

I see in the Lethbridge Herald today Shannon Phillips is back tracking on castle OHV use. She is crying that people are using inappropriate language towards her.

[270 ELK]

By shutting down all off roads how does the person that does not walk so great get to his or hers hunting spot As for making new parks forget it they can,t look after the ones we have We need more inforcement of the rules that are in place As for Shannon Philips the sooner she is gone the better the only outdoors she see,s is from the window of her SUV.

[thetruth]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I must have hit a nerve. Don't have the nuts to tell us what DF means

Just let him Troll dude. He's no more worth your time than Mike Donovan is....

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I see in the Lethbridge Herald today Shannon Phillips is back tracking on castle OHV use. She is crying that people are using inappropriate language towards her.

Inappropriate action calls for inappropriate language.

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I see in the Lethbridge Herald today Shannon Phillips is back tracking on castle OHV use. She is crying that people are using inappropriate language towards her.

http://lethbridgeherald.com/news/let...of-the-castle/


J.W. Schnarr
Lethbridge Herald
jwschnarr@lethbridgeherald.com
Misinformation surrounding Off Highway Vehicle use in the Castle parks area is undermining the process of “authentic dialogue” between user groups, says the provincial environment minister.
Shannon Phillips said the development of the Castle parks areas has been overshadowed by “disrespectful” language, and that there have been a number of false statements and misinformation spread regarding the issue.
“The fact of the matter is that the previous government recommended in the Porcupine Hills and in the Livingstone recreation area, that there be recreation management planning,” she said.
“The fact is also that the previous government didn’t get around to it.”
Phillips said her government continues to engage OHV users to ensure proper supports are put in place to make sure “high quality” OHV experiences are available to user groups. But, she says, the process is still ongoing.
“I want to be clear right now. The decisions haven’t been made. The plan that is before us is a draft.”
Phillips said the draft was created through consultation with technical working groups who examined the science around recovering the fishery, the wildlife habitat, and ensuring the water supply is in working order.
“That science informed our recommendation that there be a staged, phase-out of OHV use that is causing a great deal of erosion and a great deal of habitat loss in particular for our trout fishery,” she said.
“And a phasing in, in an appropriate way, with the right staging points, the right bridges, and trail networks in places where it is more compatible, and it has less of an impact. I don’t know how the previous governments made decisions, but in our world, a draft means exactly that.”
A number of groups have already engaged the government on the issue, according to Phillips, who said respectful dialogue and participation in the process is more effective than other means of letting the government know their wishes.
“All of them have made really interesting contributions,” she said. “They’ve really taken this on as a draft, and they are very likely to see their input reflected in the final management plan.”
Phillips said the original working groups that contributed to the draft were intended to reflect the variety of interests involved. Municipalities were sought out for representation as well as ranchers and landowners.
“They are the ones who often have to end up footing the bill for much of the activity that goes on in the landscape,” she said.
She said ranchers in particular have suffered from irresponsible OHV use because the activity interferes with their ability to make a living.
“All of those voices were recognized and included around the table,” she said. “As was small business.”
At a recent OHV rally in Lethbridge, Wildrose leader Brian Jean described the decision to phase out OHV use as something that would negatively impact people’s jobs, their traditions, and their way of life.
Phillips described that kind of talk as inflammatory and unhelpful.
“I would also reject his assessment,” she said. “If he had been out talking to the ranchers I have talked to, and the municipalities I have talked to, he would have a different view of this. It is very clear he has not done that.”
Follow @JWSchnarrHerald on Twitter

[landowner]

[QUOTE=Klondike;3476682]http://lethbridgeherald.com/news/let...of-the-castle/


J.W. Schnarr
Lethbridge Herald
jwschnarr@lethbridgeherald.com
Misinformation surrounding Off Highway Vehicle use in the Castle parks area is undermining the process of “authentic dialogue” between user groups, says the provincial environment minister.
Shannon Phillips said the development of the Castle parks areas has been overshadowed by “disrespectful” language, and that there have been a number of false statements and misinformation spread regarding the issue.
“The fact of the matter is that the previous government recommended in the Porcupine Hills and in the Livingstone recreation area, that there be recreation management planning,” she said.
“The fact is also that the previous government didn’t get around to it.”
Phillips said her government continues to engage OHV users to ensure proper supports are put in place to make sure “high quality” OHV experiences are available to user groups. But, she says, the process is still ongoing.
“I want to be clear right now. The decisions haven’t been made. The plan that is before us is a draft.”
Phillips said the draft was created through consultation with technical working groups who examined the science around recovering the fishery, the wildlife habitat, and ensuring the water supply is in working order.
“That science informed our recommendation that there be a staged, phase-out of OHV use that is causing a great deal of erosion and a great deal of habitat loss in particular for our trout fishery,” she said.
“And a phasing in, in an appropriate way, with the right staging points, the right bridges, and trail networks in places where it is more compatible, and it has less of an impact. I don’t know how the previous governments made decisions, but in our world, a draft means exactly that.”
A number of groups have already engaged the government on the issue, according to Phillips, who said respectful dialogue and participation in the process is more effective than other means of letting the government know their wishes.
“All of them have made really interesting contributions,” she said. “They’ve really taken this on as a draft, and they are very likely to see their input reflected in the final management plan.”
Phillips said the original working groups that contributed to the draft were intended to reflect the variety of interests involved. Municipalities were sought out for representation as well as ranchers and landowners.
“They are the ones who often have to end up footing the bill for much of the activity that goes on in the landscape,” she said.
She said ranchers in particular have suffered from irresponsible OHV use because the activity interferes with their ability to make a living.
“All of those voices were recognized and included around the table,” she said. “As was small business.”
At a recent OHV rally in Lethbridge, Wildrose leader Brian Jean described the decision to phase out OHV use as something that would negatively impact people’s jobs, their traditions, and their way of life.
Phillips described that kind of talk as inflammatory and unhelpful.
“I would also reject his assessment,” she said. “If he had been out talking to the ranchers I have talked to, and the municipalities I have talked to, he would have a different view of this. It is very clear he has not done that.”
Follow @JWSchnarrHerald on Twitter[/QU. I really don't know what ranchers and landowners she talks to , ever since the park was announced, she has had no contact with locals and her people cancel meetings . Very little contact with stakeholders .

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by landowner

I really don't know what ranchers and landowners she talks to , ever since the park was announced, she has had no contact with locals and her people cancel meetings . Very little contact with stakeholders .

I don't think she can keep track of when she lied to whom

[Tactical Lever]

"Negatively affecting" is inflammatory language!?

I would have a struggle on my hands coming up with something half as polite.

But I guess when one is a lefty snowflake with an agenda, anyone with a contrary point of view "triggers" them.

That's their game though. As soon as someone makes a point, immediately go into the pro soccer roll and play the victim until the speaking point is lost in crying. ?

[Tactical Lever]

?

[Tactical Lever]

[Gifted Intuitive]

Who was there speaking for the interests of hunters and fishers ?

Who would you expect to be there lobbying for hunters and fishers ?

Was the group you think should have been lobbying for hunters and fishers, at these discussions ?

[CBintheNorth]

"She said ranchers in particular have suffered from irresponsible OHV use because the activity interferes with their ability to make a living."

Now she's worried about hardship to ranchers? Now? After they rammed WCB and carbon tax down their throats?

"If he had been out talking to the ranchers I have talked to, and the municipalities I have talked to, he would have a different view of this. It is very clear he has not done that.”
Interesting. Of the ranchers I know, and that is several, not one would let her within 100 yards of their house. Yet all of them would welcome Brian. Probably even offer him a coffee and a slice of pie.

[NUK SOO KOW]

Shannon has an agenda. She is being caught in her lies. Bill 6 sucked. Carbon tax is a joke and hurt more. But mess with albertans outdoors? Red button. People are waking up.

[landowner]

Apparently her people have talked to a small group of people who run a grazing lease outside the park. I gaurentee she has not spoke with landowners that border the park or ranchers who graze within the park. Lies , lies , lies.

[thetruth]

Originally Posted by NUK SOO KOW

Shannon has an agenda. She is being caught in her lies. Bill 6 sucked. Carbon tax is a joke and hurt more. But mess with albertans outdoors? Red button. People are waking up.

And we seriously expected more from someone who was "enthusiastically endorsed" by Avi Lewis and Naomi Klein prior to the last election?? She's right at the top of the zealot list in this deranged government.

This is why Notley appointed her to the most prestigious position in their Cabinet. She's a true Comrade. Her sole mandate is to push forward, at all costs, a radical environmental agenda, the people of Alberta who are paying the freight be damned.

I'm restating the obvious here, I guess, and our only recourse is to protest loudly, peacefully and tastefully at every opportunity. My sense is that for all her bluster, she's exceptionally thin skinned and clearly in way, way over her head. The more pressure applied the more obvious her true character and motives will be.

[Marty S]

It seems apart from the legal system, there is nothing the little people can do from these democratically elected dictatorships? I'm asking.

So can we not band together and launch a class action lawsuit and put an injunction in place to hold up the process on both areas in question? Simply hold up the process in court until we elect a new government?

Hopefully Kenny and his buddies will be willing to do a little Trump style Obama program dismantling.

Must be many lawyers on this site. Help? Suggestions?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Marty S

It seems apart from the legal system, there is nothing the little people can do from these democratically elected dictatorships? I'm asking.

So can we not band together and launch a class action lawsuit and put an injunction in place to hold up the process on both areas in question? Simply hold up the process in court until we elect a new government?

Hopefully Kenny and his buddies will be willing to do a little Trump style Obama program dismantling.

Must be many lawyers on this site. Help? Suggestions?

Maybe it is time to start a gofundme for a legal battle.

Edit - would be a slippery slope.

[Albertadiver]

Y2Y will NOT stop until their agenda is fulfilled.

They are working hard in the Bow valley as well. Quietly getting the Three Sisters campground closed is part of it. Using the excuse of the flood and to reduce 'human wildlife interaction'.

Y2Y wants ALL access to the eastern slopes closed. Hiking, biking, horses, quads, etc. They want a completely sealed off area for the bunny rabbits and bears.

ATV is just the easy low hanging fruit to get their foot in the door. Sadly, it's already happened behind closed doors and the 'public consultation' is just a show.

[dugh]

There are surveys on the provincial government site under AEP (Alberta Environment and Parks). I don't think the surveys are very well advertised. I just got a heads up from our fish and game club. I'll bet the Y2Y folks have filled it out.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by dugh

There are surveys on the provincial government site under AEP (Alberta Environment and Parks). I don't think the surveys are very well advertised. I just got a heads up from our fish and game club. I'll bet the Y2Y folks have filled it out.

Those surveys are designed to approve the draft plan.

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Inappropriate action calls for inappropriate language.

And one wonders why they won't get anywhere....

If one wants to promote themselves as responsible users you aren't going to get far swearing and acting like a yahoo.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Jadham

And one wonders why they won't get anywhere....

If one wants to promote themselves as responsible users you aren't going to get far swearing and acting like a yahoo.

I meant that on a light note.

I agree with you, acting childish shouldn't help one's cause.

Hopefully Ms. Phillips is reading this.

[CBintheNorth]

From Ms. Phillips' statement:

"That science informed our recommendation that there be a staged, phase-out of OHV use that is causing a great deal of erosion.......” she said.
“And a phasing in, in an appropriate way, with the right staging points, the right bridges, and trail networks in places where it is more compatible, and it has less of an impact."

Quoted in the survey from the Management Plan:

"To protect these ecosystems, landscapes and water resources, recreational off-highway vehicle use will not be permitted in the Castle Provincial Park and Castle Wildland Provincial Park. As such, recreational off-highway vehicle use will be phased out over a three to five year period to allow for adequate off-road opportunities to be developed on nearby public lands."

Not sure about other languages, but in English that translates to "You've got 3-5 years to find another place to take your hobby".

The only question that remains is whether an individual believes that their opinion makes a difference regarding "The Plan".
To find the answer to that question you need only read the survey questions and tell them how great the Management Plan is.

791 days to go....

[Jadham]

I think the most realistic hope is to get an OHV designated area (something like MacLean OHV area in K-country) in the Livingstone block currently under planning, or in the Castle area just south of highway, the only area I can see that is not park (well excepting the resort). Certainly will require some statesmanship though.

[ehrgeiz]

Article from the Edmonton Journal today:

"Bold moves are only gutsy if they come with some risk. It was risky, for example, for the Government of Alberta to declare that it would close all off-highway trails in the Castle area in the southwest corner of the province within five years.

The risk for this government is that the animosity it faces from off-highway enthusiasts – who have used the Castle area as a playground for years – will spread more broadly, putting the NDP government’s re-election hopes in greater peril.

But with every risk there is also reward, and that comes from the gratitude felt by the many Albertans who have been witnessing the quiet destruction of our delicate wild spaces with increasingly alarm. The riverbeds and waterways of the Castle region simply cannot be sustained with the level of abuse they have been experiencing in recent years as a result of reckless “mudders” who tear up riverbeds with their powerful machines.

And, of course, it’s not just in the Castle. From the Ghost region to Nordegg to Rocky Mountain House, the havoc wreaked by some quadders, dirt bikers and mud-boggers is heartbreaking to behold.


This conflict has been years in the making, and reflects a stark dichotomy within the OHV community itself. Responsible OHV riders, represented by the Alberta Off-Highway Vehicle Association, have been taking a co-operative approach with government and trying to encourage responsible recreational riding. There are others, however, who show little regard for the areas they are ripping through. Quite literally, they are spoiling for the fun for everyone.

There is one other factor compounding the problem of OHV use in Alberta, and that is the relentless growth in our population. When I arrived in this province 15 years ago, there were three million people. Today, in spite of recent economic setbacks, the population hovers around 4.2 million – fully one-quarter more people.

That pace of growth puts not just our infrastructure under pressure – it’s also tough on our wildlands.

Many of those newcomers naturally have a variety of approaches to outdoor recreation. Some of them love their OHVs, and were delighted to learn the Eastern Slopes of the Rockies had areas wide open to them. Yet, even as the population steadily grew, previous governments turned a blind eye to the impact of OHVs on our ever-increasingly besieged wild spaces.

Putting off the inevitable simply meant that the pain of a crackdown would have an even greater sting.

Two things now need to happen. The first is that off-roaders need to get over their sense of grievance and work with the province to identify OHV trails that allow members to have fun without ruining the land. OHVs are not being banned – their use is simply being eliminated from an area they should never have been in. The province, for its part, must work with these riders in good faith.

The other thing that needs to happen is those so-called “quiet recreationalists” – the people who prefer Nikons and Canons to Polarises and Yamahas – need to speak up in support of the government’s visionary decision to stand up for the land. They can do that by simply saying thanks but, more importantly, they need to get out into these lands, experience them first-hand and share the experience with others.

The Castle region, as important as it is, has taken on greater significance than the region itself. Its protection is a decision that says much about the kind of province Albertans want their children to experience in the future.

And it says that one group – OHV riders – may have rights, but those rights do not eclipse the rights of others who long for a chance to explore Alberta’s wild spaces.

As more and more people move to this beautiful province, the decision to put reasonable limits on the use of OHVs will prove as visionary as Peter Lougheed’s decision to create the Kananaskis park system. This generation will benefit. Future generations, however, will be the greatest winners of all.

Doug Firby is publisher of Troy Media and a board member of the Southern Alberta chapter of Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society."

[Taco]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

I must have hit a nerve. Don't have the nuts to tell us what DF means

Why my dear fellow, one would have thought that a person smart enough to decipher the nuances of another person's post and thereby deduce which political party that person wholeheartedly supports would also be clever and perceptive enough to figure out what the letters D and F are a acronym for.