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  #91  
Old 03-17-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Sneeze View Post
Am I the only one that has a problem with a federal bureaucracy making silly rules, charging for access and horribly managing Alberta's public lands?

I appreciate the rules are the rules. But these are legally harvested sheep with the only wrong doing being transporting tools and a carcass through public lands that are regulated (and mismanaged).

I'm not okay with partisan bureaucrats from the east making silly rules for my back yard. As sportsmen we should be fighting every park they want to make as it allows these bureaucrats (in Edmonton and Ottawa) bypass our legislative bodies and make stupid rules that come with big fines.
I think it is far more complicated than “ bureaucrats from the east “ making silly rules .
There is no hunting in the park allowed for most hunters , and we are not allowed to transport firearms or bows on those trails for a very good reason .
Cat
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  #92  
Old 03-17-2019, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
I think it is far more complicated than “ bureaucrats from the east “ making silly rules .
There is no hunting in the park allowed for most hunters , and we are not allowed to transport firearms or bows on those trails for a very good reason .
Cat
They even frown on picking flowers or berries, that's just the way is.

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  #93  
Old 03-17-2019, 11:09 PM
Sneeze Sneeze is offline
 
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I we are not allowed to transport firearms or bows on those trails for a very good reason .
Cat
And what may I ask is that very good reason?

Somehow safely transporting a rifle it will jump off a hunters back while he is hiking out, run up the mountain and massacre a few booner elk and sheep and scare some tourists on its way back?
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  #94  
Old 03-18-2019, 07:23 AM
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And what may I ask is that very good reason?

Somehow safely transporting a rifle it will jump off a hunters back while he is hiking out, run up the mountain and massacre a few booner elk and sheep and scare some tourists on its way back?
You actually need it spelled out to you?
Okay,I'll explain it.
So unscrupulous people don't try and bend the rules , and as soon as they get inside the park they won't poach something.
I haven't checked, but I don't think it is any different for any other National park in Canada, not just when it comes to sheep.
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  #95  
Old 03-18-2019, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Sneeze View Post
And what may I ask is that very good reason?

Somehow safely transporting a rifle it will jump off a hunters back while he is hiking out, run up the mountain and massacre a few booner elk and sheep and scare some tourists on its way back?
It is against the law and creates an unfair advantage over those that obey the law.
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  #96  
Old 03-18-2019, 11:47 PM
Sneeze Sneeze is offline
 
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
It is against the law and creates an unfair advantage over those that obey the law.
I appreciate that. But I'm not disputing that it's against the law

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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
You actually need it spelled out to you?
Okay,I'll explain it.
So unscrupulous people don't try and bend the rules , and as soon as they get inside the park they won't poach something.
Cat
I reject the idea of pre-crime. Poaching is illegal and I can support those laws. The act of carrying a firearm in Alberta's wild lands should not be.

Your logic makes no sense. So an unscrupulous poacher will be stopped from even considering poaching because carrying a gun is a no-no? How does that work?

"Hey bro lets go poach some park Wolves" "nah man I'm all over that but we will get in serious trouble if we have our unloaded and cased guns on the parkway!"

Guys broke the law and yup I agree with chuck they had an unfair advantage. But... Maybe we need to question those laws. What the heck is wrong with some guys walking through Banff park with a rifle and a carcass? i walk up my big city driveway several times a year with a carcass and a shotgun and it's never turned into a sage grouse massacre.

These laws aren't to protect wildlife they are to control how people like you and I responsibly enjoy Alberta's wild places.
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  #97  
Old 03-19-2019, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Sneeze View Post
I appreciate that. But I'm not disputing that it's against the law



I reject the idea of pre-crime. Poaching is illegal and I can support those laws. The act of carrying a firearm in Alberta's wild lands should not be.

Your logic makes no sense. So an unscrupulous poacher will be stopped from even considering poaching because carrying a gun is a no-no? How does that work?

"Hey bro lets go poach some park Wolves" "nah man I'm all over that but we will get in serious trouble if we have our unloaded and cased guns on the parkway!"

Guys broke the law and yup I agree with chuck they had an unfair advantage. But... Maybe we need to question those laws. What the heck is wrong with some guys walking through Banff park with a rifle and a carcass? i walk up my big city driveway several times a year with a carcass and a shotgun and it's never turned into a sage grouse massacre.

These laws aren't to protect wildlife they are to control how people like you and I responsibly enjoy Alberta's wild places.
Question those laws?
How about work a little harder?
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  #98  
Old 03-19-2019, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneeze View Post
I appreciate that. But I'm not disputing that it's against the law



I reject the idea of pre-crime. Poaching is illegal and I can support those laws. The act of carrying a firearm in Alberta's wild lands should not be.

Your logic makes no sense. So an unscrupulous poacher will be stopped from even considering poaching because carrying a gun is a no-no? How does that work?

"Hey bro lets go poach some park Wolves" "nah man I'm all over that but we will get in serious trouble if we have our unloaded and cased guns on the parkway!"

Guys broke the law and yup I agree with chuck they had an unfair advantage. But... Maybe we need to question those laws. What the heck is wrong with some guys walking through Banff park with a rifle and a carcass? i walk up my big city driveway several times a year with a carcass and a shotgun and it's never turned into a sage grouse massacre.

These laws aren't to protect wildlife they are to control how people like you and I responsibly enjoy Alberta's wild places.
Some very good points Sneeze. We should be on guard for more laws that penalize the law-abiding, and do nothing to dissuade the law breakers.
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  #99  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
It is against the law and creates an unfair advantage over those that obey the law.
How does this answer the question?

If it was legal, the dis/advantage would be the same.


Sneeze has offered a thoughtful insight. Let it sink in.
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  #100  
Old 03-19-2019, 03:22 PM
dave99 dave99 is offline
 
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Thank you Sneeze for your thoughtful input. I believe that the reason boils down to ease of enforcement of the underlying core law that prohibits harvesting an animal within a park.

I other words, I think it would create an enforcement nightmare for parks enforcement staff (they may need to visually verify every gutpile to ensure that harvest occurred outside the park), not to mention a potential “black eye” in the public perception of hunting as tourists mix like oil and water with hunters in the backcountry of our provincial and national parks.

Would it be awesome to be able to access hunting areas through the parks? Yup!


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  #101  
Old 03-19-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dave99 View Post
Thank you Sneeze for your thoughtful input. I believe that the reason boils down to ease of enforcement of the underlying core law that prohibits harvesting an animal within a park.

I other words, I think it would create an enforcement nightmare for parks enforcement staff (they may need to visually verify every gutpile to ensure that harvest occurred outside the park), not to mention a potential “black eye” in the public perception of hunting as tourists mix like oil and water with hunters in the backcountry of our provincial and national parks.

Would it be awesome to be able to access hunting areas through the parks? Yup!


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It is rarely good for a "Free" society when laws are enacted for convenience sake.

A good test of a law to determine concerns is to expand it's scope.

How much access to huntable lands would be lost if the provincial government decided to apply the same regulation, for the same reasoning, to Provincial Parks and No Hunting Wildlife corridors?

With a few strategically placed "No Weapon" corridors, the government could legally eliminate hunting in most of the mountains.


Parks Canada legislation currently allows hunting in ALL of the Parks, participants allowed access only by invitation.
There is absolutely no good reason Parks Canada to have a complete restriction on transporting weapons through selected parks. Expand the permit system, and don't allow staff to refuse permits without valid cause.
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  #102  
Old 03-19-2019, 05:50 PM
mattthegorby mattthegorby is offline
 
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Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
How does this answer the question?

If it was legal, the dis/advantage would be the same.


Sneeze has offered a thoughtful insight. Let it sink in.
I am a novice in hunting and issues such as these... but I think easy access would disadvantage another group - hunters with the desire and capability to hike in 30km to hunt remote wilderness.

My feeling is that a good system is one that preserves a wide range of opportunity for many cross sections of hunters and public land users in general. I love driving around on an ATV hunting, but also enjoy backpack hunting. I am looking forward to learning to sheep hunt and as a long-distance kinda guy I would like some areas preserved for this, even though my first sheep hunt next fall will be in the 6km hike in range.

I also think that it needs to be looked at in terms of what increased hunting pressure will mean to all the areas that could be quickly accessed through the parks and what that impact would be on opportunity in all these areas in the long run.
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  #103  
Old 03-19-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
How does this answer the question?

If it was legal, the dis/advantage would be the same.


Sneeze has offered a thoughtful insight. Let it sink in.
It ain’t legal.
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  #104  
Old 03-19-2019, 06:39 PM
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Exactly. Gun carrying hunters are guilty of something evil in national parks.
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  #105  
Old 03-19-2019, 07:40 PM
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Look, I probably transport rifles through National Parks as much or more than anyone. I’m not jumping up and down in support of the law but it is the law.
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  #106  
Old 03-19-2019, 07:40 PM
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I often hunted past the boundaries of the 'No Hunting Wildlife Corridor', just outside of Banff National Park, close to the legal access route those 2 guys should have taken. To be where I wanted to be before dawn, I needed to encase my rifle, bushwhack in a direct line, 90 degrees from the roadside corridor, into the bush. Ensured that I was at least the required distance from the road and then find a place to hide my gun case in the pitch dark - that I'd be able to recognize later in daylight, and then proceeded to where I wanted to be at legal hunting time.
If lucky enough to get something, I was not permitted to carry it on the Icefields Parkway (93N) through Banff National Park - to make a 185 km route home to Canmore. I needed to travel from my hunting site east to Nordegg - almost to Red Deer, south to Cochrane and then west to Canmore - about 450 km.

Fortunately, even the local Park Warden recognized the ridiculousness of 'the law' and cut me some slack when I asked in advance, but the law remains.
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  #107  
Old 03-20-2019, 07:31 AM
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Would someone please point to me where the regulations state that you can't carry a carcass through the Park? I've found the bit about firearms being prohibited but for the life of me can't locate the rest of it. Appreciate it
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  #108  
Old 03-20-2019, 11:17 AM
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Its in the Parks Act.
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  #109  
Old 03-20-2019, 03:28 PM
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Would someone please point to me where the regulations state that you can't carry a carcass through the Park? I've found the bit about firearms being prohibited but for the life of me can't locate the rest of it. Appreciate it
26 (1) Except as permitted by this Act or the regulations, no person shall

[...]


(b) traffic in or possess, in a park, any wild animal of a species named in Part 1 of Schedule 3, whether living or dead, at any developmental stage, or any egg or embryo, or any part or derivative, of any such animal; or


(c) traffic in or possess any wild animal of a species named in Part 1 of Schedule 3, whether living or dead, at any developmental stage, taken from a park, or any egg or embryo, or any part or derivative, of any such animal that was taken from a park.

Last edited by JohnB; 03-20-2019 at 03:35 PM.
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  #110  
Old 03-21-2019, 05:54 AM
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Thanks guys, wasn't questioning whether it was there but was having a terrible time tracking it down. cheers
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