Here we go again re: feral horses

[buckbrushoutdoors]

Great pics Darcy!

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by avb3

Without getting into the argument as to who has the bigger penis, I suspect I know a ton more than you do about introduced species. And the damage they can do to our native species. And the unintended consequences of them being here.

They are feral animals and do not belong on our landscape.

and feral beef should no be on our leases ruining brooks and woodlands

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by avb3

Have you walk or flown the area by helicopter that Morgantini discusses in his study? I have. And seen the damage.

done bi beef for sure

[pickrel pat]

Well... To me it seems Darcy has actually "experienced" it FIRST HAND and documented it with pics... At this point Darcy has my vote.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

why are the number of cows that free range the eastern slopes regulated in numbers?

Why did guys like Philips used to ride their cows in the west country moving them as the grass accommodated? Because if they didnt the cows would stay in one area and graze off the prime areas. The area as a whole was what regulated numbers were based on. Now cows just run willy nilly and the range conditions are not monitored and cows moved as needed. You will see herds of cows in the same areas for the whole grazing season. Years ago you never saw that and range conditions stayed in alot better shape. If grazed properly the range may be able to maintain that many head but not the way its ran now.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Well... To me it seems Darcy has actually "experienced" it FIRST HAND and documented it with pics... At this point Darcy has my vote.

Im out there fairly regular and will try and get some video in prime horse areas and show any damage I can find. Im far from saying there is no damage but im far from seeing what others have stated they see also!

[Bolete]

Whats the difference between the situation regarding feral horses and feral hogs? Or even Prussian carp or crawfish in Alberta?

Is it simply that there are more horse lovers than pig lovers?

[recce43]

Originally Posted by Bolete

Whats the difference between the situation regarding feral horses and feral hogs? Or even Prussian carp or crawfish in Alberta?

Is it simply that there are more horse lovers than pig lovers?

put lipstick on a pig its still a pig

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Bolete

Whats the difference between the situation regarding feral horses and feral hogs? Or even Prussian carp or crawfish in Alberta?

Is it simply that there are more horse lovers than pig lovers?

The big difference is its taken multiple decades for horse populations to grow by a few hundred. Hogs and Carp can do this each year or more. Horse populations are a lot easier to control and regulate.

Hogs are hunted hard in the states and populations still grow at alarming rates.
Take 50 or 100 head of horses out a year and numbers will hold steady.

[walking buffalo]

Take a breath guys!


Does anyone know what the petition is about?
What legislation is being proposed?
Does the petition seek a complete ban on feral horse capture?
Does the petition seek to have these animals declared "wildlife"?
Who will be responsible for implementing the proposed legislation?


These are serious questions much more important than the focus of the discussion happening here. The potential ramifications of the proposed legislation is significant beyond personal feeling about feral wild free-range native livestock/wildlife horses.


Anyone sign the petition without knowing what it is really requesting?

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

that is an indication of overgrazing.......

I could be wrong, but I think the piles Darcy is referring to are the large ones left behind by studs (they tend to always go in the same spot, you'll see the same thing in a pasture where a tame stallion is kept). They're not an indication of overgrazing, they're an indication of a horse with balls.

IMO There's much bigger problems for the game in the west country right now than wild horses. Predators, oil and gas, cattle to name a few.

[35Whelen]

Maybe it is a problem, maybe not!!!

The way I see it, with all the unabated clearcut logging and oil and gas extraction in the east slopes over the past 20 years, having wild horses doesn't seem to be all that big a deal..

imho

[Bolete]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

The big difference is its taken multiple decades for horse populations to grow by a few hundred. Hogs and Carp can do this each year or more. Horse populations are a lot easier to control and regulate.

Hogs are hunted hard in the states and populations still grow at alarming rates.
Take 50 or 100 head of horses out a year and numbers will hold steady.

If the purpose of bounties etc. on other species are there to help eliminate them, why is it advantageous to try and "manage" feral horse herds, rather than simply eliminate them?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Take a breath guys!


Does anyone know what the petition is about?
What legislation is being proposed?
Does the petition seek a complete ban on feral horse capture?
Does the petition seek to have these animals declared "wildlife"?
Who will be responsible for implementing the proposed legislation?


These are serious questions much more important than the focus of the discussion happening here. The potential ramifications of the proposed legislation is significant beyond personal feeling about feral wild free-range native livestock/wildlife horses.


Anyone sign the petition without knowing what it is really requesting?

My comments stemmed from the first sentence, "some people still call them wild horses!"
Not about anything else. I then explained and showed my reasoning and will take a breath later thanks!!

[Booyacka]

So my question is can you shoot them legally ?

[209x50]

An interesting topic for the next AGMAG meeting.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by albertadave

I could be wrong, but I think the piles Darcy is referring to are the large ones left behind by studs (they tend to always go in the same spot, you'll see the same thing in a pasture where a tame stallion is kept). They're not an indication of overgrazing, they're an indication of a horse with balls.

IMO There's much bigger problems for the game in the west country right now than wild horses. Predators, oil and gas, cattle to name a few.

when the terrain all looks the same and is abound with horse crap that is a pretty good indication of overgrazing.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Bolete

If the purpose of bounties etc. on other species are there to help eliminate them, why is it advantageous to try and "manage" feral horse herds, rather than simply eliminate them?

Certian groups are more passionate about ponys as say crayfish....big uproar for ponys being shot... Small uproar for crayfish.....

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

And I always will call them wild!! My preference and my opinion!!

why do some of your "wild" ponies have saddle sores?

[Bolete]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Certian groups are more passionate about ponys as say crayfish....big uproar for ponys being shot... Small uproar for crayfish.....

So, you are saying that "cute" animals get treated differently simply based on their aesthetics?
Is there a rational reason here that I am missing, or is it one simply driven by emotion?

[avb3]

Sheep hunter...really nice pictures you have there in the summer and the spring.

I want you tell me what the effective growing season is for grass in the Ya Ya Tinda? When you can answer that question we can get back to the real serious discussion. Otherwise you're just surmising based on feelings. Ask Eldon for details if you don't know them yourself... he flew the same area with me.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

.........I'd love for you to come out at my expense and show me exactly where this huge damage is!!
The dog rib burn has some of if not the highest concentration of horses and there is very few places you can even tell the horses graze there if it wasn't for seeing the **** piles.

you obviously have not travelled these areas during the winter. VERY easy to see the OVER grazing then.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

and feral beef should no be on our leases ruining brooks and woodlands

Your not going to get an argument from me on that one.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by avb3

Sheep hunter...really nice pictures you have there in the summer and the spring.

I want you tell me what the effective growing season is for grass in the Ya Ya Tinda? When you can answer that question we can get back to the real serious discussion. Otherwise you're just surmising based on feelings. Ask Eldon for details if you don't know them yourself... he flew the same area with me.

Tell me then how many "feral horses" winter or summer on the ya ha tinda ranch lands, how many live in the cut blocks to the NE of tbe ranch between the Bighorn and Timber creek and maybe tell me how much the park horse herd has decreased? The ya ha winters a lot less horses than it ever has. And during its growing season no matter how long it is there is only a hand full of horses there. Any Tom dick or Harry can see that without needing a helicopter!! The numbers of wild horses in that area are very very minimal and habitat encroachment and fire suppression as well as all time high predator numbers are a lot bigger issue at the Ya Ha than any horse is!
So don't try and blow smoke up my ass when you have no physical proof other than you seen it. And like I said if your not smart enough in this day and age to physically document all the distruction you saw via still pictures or Video then I'm not very apt to believe a thing you nor any one has to say.
Proof is in the proof so let's see them if you want meet me tomorrow and we can drive to the ranch and I'll video you showing all this distraction. It sure on foot it will look way worse from on the ground than it would from the air.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

you obviously have not travelled these areas during the winter. VERY easy to see the OVER grazing then.

Yep dont get out much in the winter, get a grip Nait! I spend a ton of time in the west country year round thanks.








Shed hunting of the ridge above the Ya Ha ranch buildings late winter.



Ya Ha itself mid winter looking up the Red Deer



Ya Ha towards Scalp Creek in January

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by Bolete

So, you are saying that "cute" animals get treated differently simply based on their aesthetics?
Is there a rational reason here that I am missing, or is it one simply driven by emotion?

Seals.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Bolete

So, you are saying that "cute" animals get treated differently simply based on their aesthetics?
Is there a rational reason here that I am missing, or is it one simply driven by emotion?

Never said i feel like that... You asked...i informed you...

[Ryry4]

Originally Posted by Booyacka

So my question is can you shoot them legally ?

Nope.

[Bolete]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Never said i feel like that... You asked...i informed you...

I didn't mean to imply that is how you felt, and there certainly was no intention to offend.
I was simply trying to understand why this appears to be such a hot topic.

[Bolete]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Seals.

but only the cute baby ones with white fur and big eyes.