Why is a high fence Saskatchewan outfitter allowed to advertise in our Alberta hunting regs?

[ditch donkey]

So, I was flipping thru my recently acquired Alberta hunting regs, and found an ad for Silver Tine Exotics, out of northern Saskatchewan. I'm not sure exactly where they are, but they show the weather report for Glaslyn, so somewhere near there I suspect.

Anyway, why are they allowed to advertise, in our hunting regs. A book that is supposed to outline our laws, as well as provide the basis for each persons hunting ethics. I realize this type of hunting is legal in Saskatchewan, but is there no moral high ground to uphold. Especially in light of the CWD issue, and the higher risk game farms bring to the issue. I know these hunts take place in Saskatchewan, on a vast 1000 acre preserve, but some of the animals, the markhor, Watusi cattle, Tibetan Yak, aoudad, maybe even the caribou are raised on a ranch in BC, and trucked across Alberta in feces rattling trailers.

Also, if revenue is the reason this is allowed, perhaps we should invite the massage parlours to advertise in our regulations. I am sure there are more than a few Yankee deer hunters who could use some relaxation at the end of the day. Massages are legal, so if something is legal, and there is money to be made advertising it, morals be damned!

I am not against high fence hunting, but the North American model is a disaster.

Also, he orders in his trophy bills from some, "top breeders," in June, July, but if you want a 400" bull , and call quickly I'm sure they can find one, and throw it in the pen for you.

[NBFK]

Sign me up for a yak hunt lol.

[Dacotensis]

Originally Posted by NBFK

Sign me up for a yak hunt lol.

Saskatchewan seal hunt for me.

Hey donkey,
I agree and good eye.
Good question.

[Red Bullets]

The same reason I have been confused on why the outdoor magazines promoting "responsible" land use have ads for quads and the quads in the pictures are jumping, ripping or driving through streams. Or Milarm advertising military grade guns and not their sporting arms in hunting related publications.

Whoever can pay for the ad space is probably in. Might be part of 'the' boys club too.

Not sure why a government regulation manual would have any advertising. The publisher must have a paying contract with the gov't to produce the regs.
The writer articles in the regs can be read in other alberta publications. The ad money probably pays the article writers.

I only hope that the Saskatchewan or BC regs have Alberta ads.

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Red Bullets

...
I only hope that the Saskatchewan or BC regs have Alberta ads.

No need to worry. The BC regs have adds from all over North America, including the same Silvertine one in Alberta's, and even Albertan fenced hog hunts (which are illegal in BC). I don't see the problem with it. I have looked into these just for the experience. I don't consider them true hunting, just a different experience. If they are legal, and safe, I like to know what options are!

[last minute]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

So, I was flipping thru my recently acquired Alberta hunting regs, and found an ad for Silver Tine Exotics, out of northern Saskatchewan. I'm not sure exactly where they are, but they show the weather report for Glaslyn, so somewhere near there I suspect.

Anyway, why are they allowed to advertise, in our hunting regs. A book that is supposed to outline our laws, as well as provide the basis for each persons hunting ethics. I realize this type of hunting is legal in Saskatchewan, but is there no moral high ground to uphold. Especially in light of the CWD issue, and the higher risk game farms bring to the issue. I know these hunts take place in Saskatchewan, on a vast 1000 acre preserve, but some of the animals, the markhor, Watusi cattle, Tibetan Yak, aoudad, maybe even the caribou are raised on a ranch in BC, and trucked across Alberta in feces rattling trailers.

Also, if revenue is the reason this is allowed, perhaps we should invite the massage parlours to advertise in our regulations. I am sure there are more than a few Yankee deer hunters who could use some relaxation at the end of the day. Massages are legal, so if something is legal, and there is money to be made advertising it, morals be damned!

I am not against high fence hunting, but the North American model is a disaster.

Also, he orders in his trophy bills from some, "top breeders," in June, July, but if you want a 400" bull , and call quickly I'm sure they can find one, and throw it in the pen for you.

If I had to guess they paid for the space to put the add in its just business .

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

Saskatchewan seal hunt for me.

Hey donkey,
I agree and good eye.
Good question.

So, how does that work? Are there different classes? Like clubs under 3 lbs. and clubs over 3 lbs., spiked end or non spiked, hollow core, lead filled end for extra swing. Can you register a trophy if taken with a lead filled club - cause we all know that is cheating. Going through an outfitter like this might be a better option than waiting forever to get drawn.

[roger]

There money is as green as anyones elses.

I wont partake in it, but others might and should have the right to access.

[Full Curl Earl]

It's illegal in Alberta, and as such is innappropriate. Alberta Hunters and the public have taken the higher ground on this one, and a letter to the minister seems in line.
Cervid Harvest Preserves are for me, one of the lowest things in this community of ours, akin to poaching.
We should never support this, as the ties to CWD, in this province, have been traced to high fence hunts in Sask. as well as Alberta deer farms. Some US states, Montana is one, closed all high fence hunts after outbreaks.
It's a real disappointment to see that in the regulations.

[rugerfan]

No different than the vortex add inside the front cover, check it out, guy on the left is packin heat.

[MathewsZ7]

It's a legal business so what's the issue? Ethics? Ethics is your opinions but not everyones. Because of game farming and CWD? Was it hunters that brought CWD here? Was it a hunt ranch or just game farms in general? Game farming still goes on as much here as anywhere else. Watusi cattle, elk, yaks and all the animals the op mentioned are hauled I to and from our province too. So really is it wrong for a business advertising in a publication other than personal likes and dislikes? Sounds like the OP has more of an issue with game farming than hunt ranches. I see nothing wrong with a legal business of any kind paying to advertise.

[Full Curl Earl]

I often wonder about the AO demographic and how it relates to other hunting communities. It seems all to often that the word morals and ethics causes a huge ruckus on here, yet those words are the basis for great organizations such as the Theodore Roosevelt organization, Pope and Young, Boone and Crockett, AFGA etc. Caged hunts are the devil to these organizations. It was the demise of a great magazine called Big Game Adventures when it was reavealed they used caged hunts as material without openly disclosing so that the customer could make an informed decision on where their hard earned money went.
So why does it appear, so far on the posts/replies on this thread, that the majority of Alberta hunters like or are fine with not having Fair Chase in their hunts? Guys I hunt with would rather beat some sense into someone who would go to a Trophy high fence hunt than ever entertain the thought of killing on one.
I actually don't know anyone who thinks this is ok.
So the question then is, does Alberta Outdoorsman Forumn attract the type of crowd that does not care about fair chase, ethics or morals?
It's an honest question, no one loose their minds over this, just offer your thoughts.
I believe the public/ hunting community overall, support for Cervid Harvest Reserves is about 5%, yet so far on AO it's seems to be 75%.
Would you be okay with killing a Bighorn Ram in Sask and having it on the wall for all to see.

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

I often wonder about the AO demographic and how it relates to other hunting communities. It seems all to often that the word morals and ethics causes a huge ruckus on here, yet those words are the basis for great organizations such as the Theodore Roosevelt organization, Pope and Young, Boone and Crockett, AFGA etc. Caged hunts are the devil to these organizations. It was the demise of a great magazine called Big Game Adventures when it was reavealed they used caged hunts as material without openly disclosing so that the customer could make an informed decision on where their hard earned money went.
So why does it appear, so far on the posts/replies on this thread, that the majority of Alberta hunters like or are fine with not having Fair Chase in their hunts? Guys I hunt with would rather beat some sense into someone who would go to a Trophy high fence hunt than ever entertain the thought of killing on one.
I actually don't know anyone who thinks this is ok.
So the question then is, does Alberta Outdoorsman Forumn attract the type of crowd that does not care about fair chase, ethics or morals?
It's an honest question, no one loose their minds over this, just offer your thoughts.
I believe the public/ hunting community overall, support for Cervid Harvest Reserves is about 5%, yet so far on it's seems to be 75%.
Would you be okay with killing a Bighorn Ram in Sask and having it on the wall for all to see.

First I don't consider what these places offer as a true hunt. They offer an experience. I don't understand how this is any different then the fenced hog hunts or the pheasant reserves in Alberta, both of which are perfectly legal. Neither of those are true hunts in my opinion either, but I understand the appeal and support them.

To me the only reason to keep a trophy is for the memories, so yes, if I ever had a reason or opportunity to take a Bighorn Ram in Saskatchewan I would put it on the wall. Maybe a hunt with my good friend who is unable to hike the mountains and will never take one. That would be a memory worth preserving. A get together with all the old boys, some of whom don't hunt and have no reason to spend the thousands of dollars to get into it, just to let the stuff sit for years. That is a memory I would like to preserve. Lots of scenarios. The second they pose a threat to a threat to wild population they should be closed. Not because they violate ones personal morals.

[Ivo]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

I often wonder about the AO demographic and how it relates to other hunting communities. It seems all to often that the word morals and ethics causes a huge ruckus on here, yet those words are the basis for great organizations such as the Theodore Roosevelt organization, Pope and Young, Boone and Crockett, AFGA etc. Caged hunts are the devil to these organizations. It was the demise of a great magazine called Big Game Adventures when it was reavealed they used caged hunts as material without openly disclosing so that the customer could make an informed decision on where their hard earned money went.
So why does it appear, so far on the posts/replies on this thread, that the majority of Alberta hunters like or are fine with not having Fair Chase in their hunts? Guys I hunt with would rather beat some sense into someone who would go to a Trophy high fence hunt than ever entertain the thought of killing on one.
I actually don't know anyone who thinks this is ok.
So the question then is, does Alberta Outdoorsman Forumn attract the type of crowd that does not care about fair chase, ethics or morals?
It's an honest question, no one loose their minds over this, just offer your thoughts.
I believe the public/ hunting community overall, support for Cervid Harvest Reserves is about 5%, yet so far on AO it's seems to be 75%.
Would you be okay with killing a Bighorn Ram in Sask and having it on the wall for all to see.

I have to say that canned hunts are a product of money and nothing else. Joe Blow oil guy from Texas or Alberta will pay big money for these hunts and that is all that matters to the "Outfitter" and to the government because everyone gets their cut. The whole "experience" argument is a load of BS! If my disabled father can't make it to the mountains to hunt sheep in an ethical manner, then he will never shoot a sheep! Just because someone wants something it doesn't mean we have to drop the moral code to give it to them.

I would prefer to go to Europe to hunt wild boar then to go to a game farm in Mayerthorpe, maybe I was raised to respect the animals I hunt and the nature they live in more than having to have a trophy on the wall at any cost.

This argument is a just where society as a whole is going and it's sad to see. I will do my best to raise my kids to understand that there is no glory in shooting farm animals and if they want a trophy, they'll have to get off their *****es and go work for it! In fact, it would be a shame if one of my kids bought into this way of thinking, I would be very disappointed.

[Mulehahn]

Originally Posted by Ivo

I have to say that canned hunts are a product of money and nothing else. Joe Blow oil guy from Texas or Alberta will pay big money for these hunts and that is all that matters to the "Outfitter" and to the government because everyone gets their cut. The whole "experience" argument is a load of BS! If my disabled father can't make it to the mountains to hunt sheep in an ethical manner, then he will never shoot a sheep! Just because someone wants something it doesn't mean we have to drop the moral code to give it to them.

I would prefer to go to Europe to hunt wild boar then to go to a game farm in Mayerthorpe, maybe I was raised to respect the animals I hunt and the nature they live in more than having to have a trophy on the wall at any cost.

This argument is a just where society as a whole is going and it's sad to see. I will do my best to raise my kids to understand that there is no glory in shooting farm animals and if they want a trophy, they'll have to get off their *****es and go work for it! In fact, it would be a shame if one of my kids bought into this way of thinking, I would be very disappointed.

What moral code? These animals were raised to be shot. Same as cattle were raised to be slaughtered. To me this is no different then buying sheep from a rancher, shooting, and butchering them. Only difference is that besides the meat I get a nice trophy, and some better memories.

These places cannot be equated with hunting. To me hunting is learning the ways animals behave, studying the terrain, stalking an animal that has the ability to escape and a making successful kill.

But to argue these outfitters have no place in society is bull. You say go out and work for it? These trips take a lot of money. Money people WORKED hard to earn. How they spend it is none of my concern. No different then spending the money for an all inclusive resort in Mexico, only, to me, this would be more fun.

[bullgetter]

The PCs have no morals or ethics so why wouldn't they take the money from a hunt farm and put their ad in the regulations? If they are not kept in check hunt farms for our native species will be in Alberta too. The Elk farmers need a bail out.

[ex811]

While I do not agree with canned hunts I will not tell anyone who uses these services that what they are doing is wrong. If someone wants the experience of shooting a fenced animal, let them...as long as it's legal.

Many years ago I was more opposed to the concept, but now that I'm Old, with body parts failing me far too fast for my liking, I think I might be close to using a service like this!

[dmcbride]

I personally don't care for canned hunts. But if there legal in sask. it doesn't bother me. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I need to jump on the banning wagon. Too many nannies now days trying to force there believes on others with everything now days.

[ditch donkey]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

It's illegal in Alberta, and as such is innappropriate. Alberta Hunters and the public have taken the higher ground on this one, and a letter to the minister seems in line.
Cervid Harvest Preserves are for me, one of the lowest things in this community of ours, akin to poaching.
We should never support this, as the ties to CWD, in this province, have been traced to high fence hunts in Sask. as well as Alberta deer farms. Some US states, Montana is one, closed all high fence hunts after outbreaks.
It's a real disappointment to see that in the regulations.

You seem to understand my point Earl. One poster says that I should keep my personal ethics out of it, and if it's legal, what's the big deal. He's right, my ethics really mean nothing.

These hunts are legal in Saskatchewan, but I don't live in Saskatchewan. The province has it's own set of ethics it uses to set laws. And that is why we can not hunt wild life on game farms.

The Alberta government does not support this type of hunting, and that's why I think this ad is so out of place, in our regulations. But I think it has more to do with the publisher than the Government.

Also, the arguement that it's a legal activity, and if they have the money for the ad, that's the way buisness works. That's a very weak arguement. Advertising is restricted all the time. That's why you can't see tabacco products at convience stores.

Ashley Madison was rejected a spot during the Super Bowl, because they didn't fit the NFL's image.

[Full Curl Earl]

Kill farms are controversial at best, and I choose not to support them by watching where my money goes, ie. I don't buy hunting publications that do stories on High fenced hunts. The problem with the Hunting regulations having clients such as this, is that I have no choice in the matter, as I require the reading material to remain in bounds with the law.
I may be wrong, but I believe Sport Scene publications publishes the Hunting Regulations, and Rob Miskosky might be able to provide some input how this works?

[Ivo]

Originally Posted by Mulehahn

What moral code? These animals were raised to be shot. Same as cattle were raised to be slaughtered. To me this is no different then buying sheep from a rancher, shooting, and butchering them. Only difference is that besides the meat I get a nice trophy, and some better memories.

These places cannot be equated with hunting. To me hunting is learning the ways animals behave, studying the terrain, stalking an animal that has the ability to escape and a making successful kill.

But to argue these outfitters have no place in society is bull. You say go out and work for it? These trips take a lot of money. Money people WORKED hard to earn. How they spend it is none of my concern. No different then spending the money for an all inclusive resort in Mexico, only, to me, this would be more fun.

I don't see how it's a trophy if you shot it inside a fence, explain to me how a canned hunt animal is a trophy. Where is the sense of accomplishment, where is the thrill of the hunt, where is the challenge? At least we agree on one thing, these are not hunts. I don't mean to get philosophical here but if it's not hunting, what is it?

I work hard for my money too, everyone does. I don't care where or how people spend their money. What bothers me is just that I feel the lines are getting blurred here. So how does a hunter that works his nuts off all season to bag a trophy buck or bull distinguish himself from a lazy, incompetent bastard that sat in a treestand for the morning till his 180 class whitetail came strolling down the fence line?

I can't condone canned hunts to an anti yet we are all put in the same boat as "hunters". I refuse to be associated with those people and we are not the same.

A guided fair chase hunt is a completely different story BTW.

[Tatonka]

Interesting topic... I personally have no interest in killing an animal behind a high fence, but evidently a lot of people do or preserves wouldn't be in business...

People are funny......we have no problem with the Fish and Game department stocking a 5 acre pond with a thousand trout and then fishing for them, but we tend to frown on people shooting critters on a 1,000 acre preserve....just saying....

No one seems to have a problem with going to a bird hunting preserve where you pay for however many birds they release, then you go out and shoot them.... Just saying....

Is killing an animal on a preserve really that much different than someone buying a 100 acres of land, planting food plots, growing bucks until they are trophy size, keeping everyone else from hunting the property, and then go in and sit in a little box and select the buck you want to shoot from several feeding in your food plot?.......Just saying.....

From what I understand, those huge Red Stags you see killed in New Zealand are all on fenced in preserves...they are not free range animals.... Same for much of Africa these days... But here in North America we frown on those practices.....Just saying.

SCI not only allows but promotes killing animals on preserves....just look at their magazine...it's filled with advertising for preserve hunts... They give awards for animals killed on preserves... Just saying...

To each his own..... It's not for me, but if other people enjoy it more power to them although I don't think it's very good PR for hunters when it comes to non-hunters and anti-hunters... just saying....

[kingrat]

Originally Posted by PartTimeHunter

So, how does that work? Are there different classes? Like clubs under 3 lbs. and clubs over 3 lbs., spiked end or non spiked, hollow core, lead filled end for extra swing. Can you register a trophy if taken with a lead filled club - cause we all know that is cheating. Going through an outfitter like this might be a better option than waiting forever to get drawn.

Sorry boys outfitters only and yes you can use clubs but then they cant be scored as their skulls are usually crushed so if you want it entered in our record books if your lucky enough to get one that big better pack a firearm or bow its actually a great hunt.

[catnthehat]

We have shot wild birds while on a release farm and I have shot banded birds while hunting " open" ground .

If you ask anybody who has hunted those pheasant farms steady they will tell you that the kill ratio is far from 100%, it closer to between 50 and 75% most times and that's not because the hunters can't shoot either.
Not all birds sit when released and on a mass release heaven only knows where they will fly the run when they hi the ground .

It doesn't take but a day or two for s pheasant to figure out his to evade predators off they have been released, as well , whereas a ram it deer in a fenced area cannot get away on it's own .
So no, hunting a pheasant reserve is not like a high fenced pen hunt for big game animals .
Cat

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

So, I was flipping thru my recently acquired Alberta hunting regs, and found an ad for Silver Tine Exotics, out of northern Saskatchewan. I'm not sure exactly where they are, but they show the weather report for Glaslyn, so somewhere near there I suspect.

Anyway, why are they allowed to advertise, in our hunting regs. A book that is supposed to outline our laws, as well as provide the basis for each persons hunting ethics. I realize this type of hunting is legal in Saskatchewan, but is there no moral high ground to uphold. Especially in light of the CWD issue, and the higher risk game farms bring to the issue. I know these hunts take place in Saskatchewan, on a vast 1000 acre preserve, but some of the animals, the markhor, Watusi cattle, Tibetan Yak, aoudad, maybe even the caribou are raised on a ranch in BC, and trucked across Alberta in feces rattling trailers.

Also, if revenue is the reason this is allowed, perhaps we should invite the massage parlours to advertise in our regulations. I am sure there are more than a few Yankee deer hunters who could use some relaxation at the end of the day. Massages are legal, so if something is legal, and there is money to be made advertising it, morals be damned!

I am not against high fence hunting, but the North American model is a disaster.

Also, he orders in his trophy bills from some, "top breeders," in June, July, but if you want a 400" bull , and call quickly I'm sure they can find one, and throw it in the pen for you.

Because they pay to advertise! Just like all the other adds...

[Mr. Dynamite]

I couldn't find it, but the most hilarious hi-fence video on youtube is from world class whitetails of Ohio. They have a vid of a old guy shooting a big buck, and shortly before he takes the shot you can see a golf cart driving along one of the trails behind the buck as they are in the middle of the "intense stalk". Good for a laugh!

[johnjohn]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

I often wonder about the AO demographic and how it relates to other hunting communities. It seems all to often that the word morals and ethics causes a huge ruckus on here, yet those words are the basis for great organizations such as the Theodore Roosevelt organization, Pope and Young, Boone and Crockett, AFGA etc. Caged hunts are the devil to these organizations. It was the demise of a great magazine called Big Game Adventures when it was reavealed they used caged hunts as material without openly disclosing so that the customer could make an informed decision on where their hard earned money went.
So why does it appear, so far on the posts/replies on this thread, that the majority of Alberta hunters like or are fine with not having Fair Chase in their hunts? Guys I hunt with would rather beat some sense into someone who would go to a Trophy high fence hunt than ever entertain the thought of killing on one.
I actually don't know anyone who thinks this is ok.
So the question then is, does Alberta Outdoorsman Forumn attract the type of crowd that does not care about fair chase, ethics or morals?
It's an honest question, no one loose their minds over this, just offer your thoughts.
I believe the public/ hunting community overall, support for Cervid Harvest Reserves is about 5%, yet so far on AO it's seems to be 75%.
Would you be okay with killing a Bighorn Ram in Sask and having it on the wall for all to see.

I'm sure you or some of your buddies that like to "beat some sense into people who go on high fence hunts" have big fancy vehicles with leather interiors for "all to see". Has it ever crossed your mind where that leather came from? An alberta ranch obviously?.... How does that really differ from hanging a shoulder mount on ones wall?

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by ditch donkey

So, I was flipping thru my recently acquired Alberta hunting regs, and found an ad for Silver Tine Exotics, out of northern Saskatchewan. I'm not sure exactly where they are, but they show the weather report for Glaslyn, so somewhere near there I suspect.

Anyway, why are they allowed to advertise, in our hunting regs. A book that is supposed to outline our laws, as well as provide the basis for each persons hunting ethics. I realize this type of hunting is legal in Saskatchewan, but is there no moral high ground to uphold. Especially in light of the CWD issue, and the higher risk game farms bring to the issue. I know these hunts take place in Saskatchewan, on a vast 1000 acre preserve, but some of the animals, the markhor, Watusi cattle, Tibetan Yak, aoudad, maybe even the caribou are raised on a ranch in BC, and trucked across Alberta in feces rattling trailers.

Also, if revenue is the reason this is allowed, perhaps we should invite the massage parlours to advertise in our regulations. I am sure there are more than a few Yankee deer hunters who could use some relaxation at the end of the day. Massages are legal, so if something is legal, and there is money to be made advertising it, morals be damned!

I am not against high fence hunting, but the North American model is a disaster.

Also, he orders in his trophy bills from some, "top breeders," in June, July, but if you want a 400" bull , and call quickly I'm sure they can find one, and throw it in the pen for you.

Maybe you should start a boycott of the publisher of the regulation summary, and all their subsidiary holdings.

After all it was they who accepted the money for the advertisement.

Waitaminite! That's AO, and this forum......

We have far bigger issues than this to drone on about IMO.... But it sure makes for interesting readings.....

[nekred]

I love the moral ethical "dilemma" presented here....

Simple... if you don't want to drink kool-aid the don't... but kool-aid should still be allowed to advertise.....

I may not be Catholic or Muslim but I don't need to outlaw their church because it is not what I believe in and if they want to advertise so be it....

If I don;t want to shoot an animal on a "canned hunt" then I won't but if someone else wants to and someone has a business allowing people to do so legally... then they can advertise...

However if someone came on here such as our old buddy HWF and was advertising and exotic animal hunt in Calgary and you showed uop and he handed you a set of bolt cutters and a map to the Calgary zoo....and advertised then there may be a problem...

How many so called "canned hunt adversaries" fish stocked water bodies... is that not the same thing I mean the fish usually can't get out to another water body etc...

There I hit religion, moral ethics, and a banned ember all in one post....

[Ivo]

Originally Posted by nekred

There I hit religion, moral ethics, and a banned ember all in one post....

You're a Wildman!LOL