............

[packhuntr]

Hey there Newsflash, lol
Go back to your last rant afew months back on this subject. Have a real good read through it. Re spinning your crap still wont make anyone a sweater but for maybe a blind man, bud.
For all the times we have watched you get publicly hammered on this not surprisingly boundary-less rant of yours, by multiple parties,,, you unbelievably wont change your mind and you simply dumbfoundedly refuse to go away. Man so much to say to someone like you,, i wish theyd unchain this. You and that rotten old stump. Its getting old watching you fantasize over yourself and your wants. This place should hold steady to one thing. UNWAIVERING promotion of future success with our indigenous species and their habitats. Unbeknownst to you, that MUST involve ALL Stakeholders,, some that have PAINSTAKINGLY PROMOTED and placed/created ethical and renewable use-values upon these resources. You and anyone in your peergroup that harbor your, I want them, i want every one of them and every opportunity available to them, attitude, should be recipients of immediate discharge and public shaming in this day and age. Unfortunately it just doesnt seem to happen with our species, and we have been disgustingly forced to bare witness to PRECISELY what transpires when people just like you, have your way with resources. Its happened a multitude of times over. I will say this again, you need to be publicly kicked clean off your perch.
Respectfully, Wes S.

[nube]

Well all I know is I shot one last year and I plan to go again in 2018. Yup there are lots of reasons that it takes longer to get a draw here but guess what? It ain't going to get better. And if you think it's the outfitters fault that your wait times have doubled in the last 10 years then you need to shake your head.

Been saying it for years now that the good old days are gone boys but it seems some don't want to believe it for some reason.
Antelope can be hunted every year or 2 for pennies if you really want to do it!!!

[mulecrazy]

I would refrain from using current tag numbers as gospel for years to come. Tag numbers can fluctuate in a hurry. Keep in mind, before the big kill off of 2010 most of the antelope areas were seeing tag numbers well in excess of 250. Those tag numbers were greatly reduced to 10 in many areas. Tag numbers will come back up(more than they have already) and we will erode the high priorities away again. I got drawn for antelope in 2001 and then again in 2004 or 2005. Not saying we will see those record high tag numbers again. I just refuse to come to the conclusion the tag numbers will stay this low.

[slickwilly]

Originally Posted by boah

There are non-res in the draw system also.

Ah yes I see that. I'm not going to lie, I didn't know that.

[Bill 2 Feathers]

My Brother and I got drawn Priority 13!

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by nube

Well all I know is I shot one last year and I plan to go again in 2018. Yup there are lots of reasons that it takes longer to get a draw here but guess what? It ain't going to get better. And if you think it's the outfitters fault that your wait times have doubled in the last 10 years then you need to shake your head.

Been saying it for years now that the good old days are gone boys but it seems some don't want to believe it for some reason.
Antelope can be hunted every year or 2 for pennies if you really want to do it!!!

I can agree with that. I cannot proffess to having the answers.
I can agree with Deerhunter that there are main drivers for issues here and they need addressed. There are a bundle of them and it isnt small.
Deer hunter i am uncertain as i have ever been in the past with anything, as to why your issue with the outfitting industry. It has remarkable benefits, it exists in our province in small quantity, they have the resources best interests in mind, and they are a unified voice that have for everyones bestterment, a vested interest in maintaining herd health across the entire page . Alot has changed in our lifetimes growing up with hunting, angling and trapping. Others are able to grow and learn. Outfitting should be a celebrted thing amongst our resident hunter, trapper and angler ranks. Sadly the un informed choose to remain that way, and small talk easily can destroy the hard work of many. Its sad this remains the case today. Albertans that once hated oil, all get it now. We have ranchers standing up for all facets, big players standing to be heard as the voice of the small. Etc etc. I am unsure why hunters, trappers and anglers are at thier own demise, willing to decimate thier peers and the people that have the very love of most peoples lives, best interests at heart. I am uncertain why you choose to continually defamate such a small player that has so much to continue to offer. Cant get my head around it.
If its isolating the issues you desire to do, please do so. I am certain everyone will rank and file up right behind you to help you apply pressure to see the needed change comes to fruition. Please be certain in doing so that you understand who the allies are in this. It would be prudent.
Over and out.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

I can agree with that. I cannot proffess to having the answers.
I can agree with Deerhunter that there are main drivers for issues here and they need addressed. There are a bundle of them and it isnt small.
Deer hunter i am uncertain as i have ever been in the past with anything, as to why your issue with the outfitting industry. It has remarkable benefits, it exists in our province in small quantity, they have the resources best interests in mind, and they are a unified voice that have for everyones bestterment, a vested interest in maintaining herd health across the entire page . Alot has changed in our lifetimes growing up with hunting, angling and trapping. Others are able to grow and learn. Outfitting should be a celebrted thing amongst our resident hunter, trapper and angler ranks. Sadly the un informed choose to remain that way, and small talk easily can destroy the hard work of many. Its sad this remains the case today. Albertans that once hated oil, all get it now. We have ranchers standing up for all facets, big players standing to be heard as the voice of the small. Etc etc. I am unsure why hunters, trappers and anglers are at thier own demise, willing to decimate thier peers and the people that have the very love of most peoples lives, best interests at heart. I am uncertain why you choose to continually defamate such a small player that has so much to continue to offer. Cant get my head around it.
If its isolating the issues you desire to do, please do so. I am certain everyone will rank and file up right behind you to help you apply pressure to see the needed change comes to fruition. Please be certain in doing so that you understand who the allies are in this. It would be prudent.
Over and out.

I am certainly not going to celebrate an industry that allows convicted poachers to represent their association, and who allows convicted poachers and criminals to remain members, and to have input on how the industry is managed. APOS cares about one thing, and one thing only, and that is to protect their income. If while protecting their industry, they happen to do something that aids resident hunters, then that is a benefit for resident hunters, but given the choice of lining their pockets or supporting resident hunters, their income will always come first.

[Deer Hunter]

Year / #of applicants /# drawn
2000 / 8661 / 798
2001 / 10050 / 1271
2002 / 10636 / 1007
2003 / 12283 / 1784
2004 / 13632 / 1472
2005 / 15197 / 985
2006 / 16731 / 611
2007 / 18420 / 725
2008 / 20049 / 973
2009 / 23337 / 1262
2010 / 25324 / 1271
2011 / 27256 / 160
2012 / 27631 / 140
2013 / 28870 / 659



In this 14 year period (2000-2013) the number of trophy tags issued averaged 937/yr.
The average increase in numbers of applicants averaged 1745/yr , but increasing much more rapidly in recent years (4806/yr between 2015 and 2016). I can hardly believe this year over year increase but have triple checked my numbers.

Originally Posted by packhuntr

.........i wish theyd unchain this.
........ should be recipients of immediate discharge and public shaming in this day and age. ...........
.........I will say this again, you need to be publicly kicked clean off your perch.
Respectfully, Wes S.

Are you threatening me?

[packhuntr]

Spokesman, you are now embarrassing yourself.
I will try this again,, over and out.

[Bow flyman]

It is a very good point. I have hunted Antelope 5 times in Alberta. I was drawn last year, which was 12 years since my last hunt. Thankfully, I got a decent buck, my best ever in Alberta, because I know I will never hunt them again in this province.

[The moose]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Spokesman, you are now embarrassing yourself.
I will try this again,, over and out.

Say what you wish packhhuntr, but the reality is, looking at it as a person with a priority 3. I dont expect to ever draw this tag. I will enter, but my hopes are not high. I will plan a DIY usa hunt. Its a shame i need to travel abroad when there should be oppertunity here.

However, turkey is the same deal. Why not hunt bc

[CF8889]

I'm new to alberta. I jusr plan on going south of the boarder. Never gonna draw em here

[3blade]

Same as sheep. Put in and maybe you get it, maybe not. Can't do meaningful math as tag numbers fluctuate and almost everyone has to travel for it, so people 999 until the time is right. Not like the application costs are going to bankrupt anyone.

Still mad about the one year I missed the draws. Probably added a 5 year wait to my pronghorn tag

Re: the outfitter discussion, its all been said before and it doesn't look likely to change.

[boah]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Re: the outfitter discussion, its all been said before and it doesn't look likely to change.

With enough pressure on ESRD you may be surprized.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by clarki

I was drawn with a p10. I'm 45 years old. This will be the only Trophy Pronghorn opportunity with a rifle I will ever have in Alberta...

I remember when you could count on a tag every two or three years.

Grizz

[Sooner]

Well I was sitting on enough points to draw for Trophy Antelope but realized my kid is closing in but a few years out. I backed out of drawing with some friends so the boy can gain enough so we can hunt them together. He should be P9 this year.

The way numbers for this tag keep increasing, I hope we can chase them more than once together but I know I will be a older man next time around lol.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Sooner

Well I was sitting on enough points to draw for Trophy Antelope but realized my kid is closing in but a few years out. I backed out of drawing with some friends so the boy can gain enough so we can hunt them together. He should be P9 this year.

The way numbers for this tag keep increasing, I hope we can chase them more than once together but I know I will be a older man next time around lol.

I'd say have twice the experience with him and go twice.
Not sure if possible but draw the tag and partner with him. It will be as meaningful for u as it is to him no matter who shoots it.

Then go back in a few more years and do it all over again.

[Full Curl Earl]

Anyone advocating the merits of APOS with all the known faults and crooked behavior shows their true interest. I know plenty of good Alberta outfitters, and not one of them supports how APOS conducts business. The not so "clean" ones adore it. A house cleaning is necessary. How much effort has APOS put in financially for fencing programs for antelope improvement like good stewards should? CWD testing? Research? Appologies for the derail response but It was instigated.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Anyone advocating the merits of APOS with all the known faults and crooked behavior shows their true interest. I know plenty of good Alberta outfitters, and not one of them supports how APOS conducts business. The not so "clean" ones adore it. A house cleaning is necessary. How much effort has APOS put in financially for fencing programs for antelope improvement like good stewards should? CWD testing? Research? Appologies for the derail response but It was instigated.

I'm not a fan of how they do business but I'm smart enough to realise you can't blame outfitters for the lack of tags and a huge wait time for this species.
I think most guys would like to see things change but who is going to fight the fight and how do you get it done?
A few in power have all the power it seems.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

I can agree with that. I cannot proffess to having the answers.
I can agree with Deerhunter that there are main drivers for issues here and they need addressed. There are a bundle of them and it isnt small.
Deer hunter i am uncertain as i have ever been in the past with anything, as to why your issue with the outfitting industry. It has remarkable benefits, it exists in our province in small quantity, they have the resources best interests in mind, and they are a unified voice that have for everyones bestterment, a vested interest in maintaining herd health across the entire page . Alot has changed in our lifetimes growing up with hunting, angling and trapping. Others are able to grow and learn. Outfitting should be a celebrted thing amongst our resident hunter, trapper and angler ranks. Sadly the un informed choose to remain that way, and small talk easily can destroy the hard work of many. Its sad this remains the case today. Albertans that once hated oil, all get it now. We have ranchers standing up for all facets, big players standing to be heard as the voice of the small. Etc etc. I am unsure why hunters, trappers and anglers are at thier own demise, willing to decimate thier peers and the people that have the very love of most peoples lives, best interests at heart. I am uncertain why you choose to continually defamate such a small player that has so much to continue to offer. Cant get my head around it.
If its isolating the issues you desire to do, please do so. I am certain everyone will rank and file up right behind you to help you apply pressure to see the needed change comes to fruition. Please be certain in doing so that you understand who the allies are in this. It would be prudent.
Over and out.

This person shows up, name calling and threatening every time the word outfitter is used. Is he representative of the majority of the outfitters in this province?

This wasn't supposed to be an outfitter thread. The fact that they have guaranteed tags for non-residents to use every year, where a tax paying resident hunter new to the draw code has essentially zero chance of ever being drawn, is a big issue IMO.

However, I believe another big issue is the non-residents in this and many other draw codes in Alberta. It needs to be disallowed IMO.
And you never know. By removing the non-resident draw/hunter host opportunity would likely benefit the current outfitters as they would be the only way a non resident could hunt here. Hopefully only for species that residents aren't required to draw for.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

This person shows up, name calling and threatening every time the word outfitter is used. Is he representative of the majority of the outfitters in this province?

This wasn't supposed to be an outfitter thread. The fact that they have guaranteed tags for non-residents to use every year, where a tax paying resident hunter new to the draw code has essentially zero chance of ever being drawn, is a big issue IMO.

However, I believe another big issue is the non-residents in this and many other draw codes in Alberta. It needs to be disallowed IMO.

And you never know. By removing the non-resident draw/hunter host opportunity would likely benefit the current outfitters as they would be the only way a non resident could hunt here. Hopefully only for species that residents aren't required to draw for.

How Big of an issue?

1%, 2% of licences issued?


Eliminating Outfitter allocations would have x1000s% greater impact than eliminating NR Hunter hosted licences.


The only way to deal with the potentially decades long draw wait times is to revise the priority system.

Without question, the greatest impact on Pronghorn hunting opportunity can be achieved through increasing and preserving a larger Pronghorn population.
Habitat is continuing to face great challenges from farming practices, grazing operations are coming around to reducing their impact on this species.

Winter mortality is the number one reason for large swings in Pronghorn populations. Something we may not be able to do anything about.
But perhaps we could significantly increase hunter harvest when Pronghorn numbers are high without impacting the long term overall population levels.
Increasing the Allowable Harvest % when populations are strong will positively impact the wait times while potentially having a negligible effect on the Pronghorn population.

I recall back in the mid 80s F&W issuing thousands of extra tags after the draw when the population was strong, based on a concern that there simply wasn't enough winter habitat to allow those animals to carry over. With some luck, we may face the decision to do this again.

[elkhunter11]

Doesn't APOS not elect their executive? If the outfitters that do not approve of the way that APOS does business really want a change, why don't they vote out those few crooked people , and replace them with people that will work to make the changes that are required to make APOS a reputable organization?

[packhuntr]

How could removal of outfitting for pronghorn promote numbers change? One does not have to be a smart man to look at these numbers to see this. Do you fellas have the actual representation numbers for non residents in our draw system? AS IRRELEVANT AS ANY OF THESE COMBINED NUMBERS IN REALITY, ARE.
The issues regarding ALL ungulates in Ab. in the foreseeable future will not be any annual accumulated harvest. It will be directly related to the CONTINUING government misappropriation of any and ALL FUNDS that are raised through tag/license sales etc etc, that SHOULD BE LOBBIED and FOUGHT FOR, for the retention by and for fisheries and wildlife habitat and conservation initiatives. THIS IS WHERE ALL ENERGY SHOULD BE EXPENDED, AND BY ALL CONCERNED/VESTED STAKEHOLDER GROUPS.
PEOPLE ARE IGNORANTLY MISSING THE BOAT.

Edit. Fisheries and wildlife WILL HAVE TO financially carry its self on some level in the future to remain viable. A crystal ball is not required to see this!

[packhuntr]

Aaaand crickets lolol. Go figure....
Anyone that values these things is in this together, and any attemp at removal of allies that are standing shoulder to shoulder with you, is death as sure as a bullet to the head moving forward. Keep up the great work guys!

[nube]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Doesn't APOS not elect their executive? If the outfitters that do not approve of the way that APOS does business really want a change, why don't they vote out those few crooked people , and replace them with people that will work to make the changes that are required to make APOS a reputable organization?

One of the big problems like any election is to get good stand up guy to even throw their name in the hat to run. There are not many that want to be involved in it. The ones that do usually have their own agendas. I would say quite a few members are not involved at all in anything APOS does. They belong because they have to.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

How Big of an issue?

1%, 2% of licences issued?


Eliminating Outfitter allocations would have x1000s% greater impact than eliminating NR Hunter hosted licences.

How many NR are in the draw system as NR?
How many NR are in the draw system as Residents?
What percentage of hunters were NR's in 2011 and 2012 when the Trophy Pronghorn draw was severely cut back?
How long is it going to take before this draw is considered impossible for new applicant? When there is 50,000 in the draw code? 100,000?

[boah]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Aaaand crickets lolol. Go figure....
Anyone that values these things is in this together, and any attemp at removal of allies that are standing shoulder to shoulder with you, is death as sure as a bullet to the head moving forward. Keep up the great work guys!

I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with my fellow albertans. Any species that an Albertan has to wait for more than 3 years to get drawn should not be available to non -res. It doesn't matter how insignificantly it changes the numbers.

[packhuntr]

Call me crazy but even with having two young boys that will soon be of age to enjoy learning consumptive use values here, it bothers me NOT that they will likely never personally pursue an Ab pronghorn. It will bother them not one iota as well. It is what it is, and demand so far exceeds supply in our northern plains, including this province, that the only way to bring it back for you boys,,, would be to have another draft called by the military. Too many people boys. Thats okay! However its only okay so long as we are not over run with people like those posting here, that believe they should be pandered too. Reality fellas. Come on back to it. I will make double sure guys, that my kids dont become a problem like some that are posting here, if you guys will try to maintain contact with reality when raising yours. That would be just great guys...

[DJS]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

Call me crazy but even with having two young boys that will soon be of age to enjoy learning consumptive use values here, it bothers me NOT that they will likely never personally pursue an Ab pronghorn. It will bother them not one iota as well. It is what it is, and demand so far exceeds supply in our northern plains, including this province, that the only way to bring it back for you boys,,, would be to have another draft called by the military. Too many people boys. Thats okay! However its only okay so long as we are not over run with people like those posting here, that believe they should be pandered too. Reality fellas. Come on back to it. I will make double sure guys, that my kids dont become a problem like some that are posting here, if you guys will try to maintain contact with reality when raising yours. That would be just great guys...

For the most part this thread has been discussing ideas on what can be done to help draw waiting times for resident hunters. Your idea of throwing in the towel and nothing can be done has been heard. It's your opinion, your entitled to it...move on. I'll speak for a number of people reading this thread...your input for the most part has ben rude and disrespectful. You talk about raising your kids right...hopefully you teach them some manners that differ from your own.

[Full Curl Earl]

Pack,Don't offer up slighted insults to folks and their kids, its unbecoming. Just present your argument/opinion and weed through the chaff. I hope things turn a corner and there is plenty of wild animals and wild places for all kids to enjoy.
Alberta needs strong guidelines that support Alberta hunters first. Maybe Saskatchewan has it right...