............

[Okotokian]

Guides and outfitters comprise a legitimate industry and a useful resource for hunters. They should be encouraged. That said, when we get to the point where Alberta residents have little chance to hunt a species, I think we just have to say to those outside the province, "Sorry, we don't have enough of these particular animals to share." Ideally it shouldn't be done suddenly, but over a few years to give the industry time to adjust.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by FinnDawg

Well, technically most dudes arguing the opposite of you, care about future Alberta hunters getting an antelope in Alberta, and less about outfitters so you can't argue that they don't care because it doesn't affect them, because it does.

I respect guides, and hope the best for them. I agree that the more sharing the better, although it would be nice if I could take an antelope one day in Alberta, it's just not likely. It sucks to have to go somewhere else but it's the way she goes..

The way i see it, the current pronghorn situation is solely based upon user group size. The herd could be built to higher levels with virtually zero social implications. Fine and dandy. As it were with management it provides for some sustainable controlled management hunting. It looks good. In my opinion this fictitious outfitter problem is not even worth discussing, and is a complete waste of time. I think we all understand what is happening and that our personal opportunities at home here are suffering. I had children too, enjoy them and would not deny anyone else the chance to enjoy this tradition. The problems dont nessessarily lie with our numbers, quite obviously through reading these type of discussions it becomes evident that its the type of person that is becoming more accepted that is going to be the issue.
Problematic scenarios exist in this province that require attention, and for the life of me, cannot understand why we as resident hunters are uncapable of rationalizing where attention is needed, and refuse to apply pressure toward even the MOST CRITICAL of these rapidly growing and immeasurable situations. With things like Deer Hunters thread here, it serves as just another sad reminder of the disgusting direction we are allowing some of these people to take us as we move foreword.
Knowing how harshly this might read, i did look, and a spade is actually still a spade, for now anyways. May as well call it that.

[Duk Dog]

Reality is the issues that Alberta faces with draws and hunting opportunities are very complex. Personally I do feel there is a place for both NR hunters and outfitters - eliminating them won't fix the issues. That seems to be one of the problems in the province - looking for the quick or easy band-aid fix - rather than looking at, and addressing, the big picture as a whole.

As for the statistically impossible (or soon to be) draws I like an approach like Wyomings. The bulk of the tags remain as part of the points draw and a smaller amount is a random draw - thereby giving the people with higher points a couple kicks at the can, or for those that don't stand a crack at it with points they do have an opportunity versus the random component of the draw.

[Deer Hunter]

Motherhood statements like looking at the big picture have proven to the resident hunter that the situation will only get worse.
Looking big picture is a far cry from continually acting on the issues as they arise. Absolute inactivity is why we are in this state we are in today.
When was the latest revision to the outfitter guide policy supposed to be tabled? Is there an approved outfitter guide policy in place?

[R3illy]

some of the stances of the anti outfitter crowd are coming from a greedy self entitled place. Some of these posters take the same stance on many different threads/topics that center around what benefits them the most.

Could we limit NR hunts on species with low tags? Sure seems logical but before doing so id ask whats been done before this to help the animals thrive.

Seems theres a few suggestions like removing doe tags, adding fences, fixing some habitat. Outfitters dont need to be the first solution just because its the easiest.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Duk Dog

Well said!

Lots of folks debating this here, but of those doing so how many are actively involved with the various conservation groups, and/or communicating their concerns to these groups and government? Since we are on the topic of antelope, the fencing projects you mentioned are a great example. Anyone here helping out? Now that is a productive way of trying to help out the antelope!

How many guys complaining actually do any predator control? At least I got to give that to Deer hunter. He does his part on that but I would say the majority doesn't.

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Motherhood statements like looking at the big picture have proven to the resident hunter that the situation will only get worse.
Looking big picture is a far cry from continually acting on the issues as they arise. Absolute inactivity is why we are in this state we are in today.
When was the latest revision to the outfitter guide policy supposed to be tabled? Is there an approved outfitter guide policy in place?

I for one want better management in the province that address all variables (habitat, predators, access, opportunity etc etc) of proper game management.

Speaking of acting on things that brings me back to my other point - how many people are actively involved with the various conservation groups, and/or communicating their concerns to these groups and government? Since we are on the topic of antelope, the fencing projects you mentioned are a great example. Anyone here helping out?

[Duk Dog]

Originally Posted by nube

How many guys complaining actually do any predator control? At least I got to give that to Deer hunter. He does his part on that but I would say the majority doesn't.

Good for him and all others that do. It was a general statement and if you are doing your part (and I know you do) well done. For all the others that don't do predator control, that don't volunteer on these projects (like antelope fencing), that don't belong to conservation groups, that don't write letters to them and the government - it is time to become involved or don't complain about it.

[Deer Hunter]

That's a whole other separate thread about how these local conservation groups are representing resident opportunity.
I know you haven't forgot how to start a new thread

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by R3illy

some of the stances of the anti outfitter crowd are coming from a greedy self entitled place. Some of these posters take the same stance on many different threads/topics that center around what benefits them the most.

Could we limit NR hunts on species with low tags? Sure seems logical but before doing so id ask whats been done before this to help the animals thrive.

Seems theres a few suggestions like removing doe tags, adding fences, fixing some habitat. Outfitters dont need to be the first solution just because its the easiest.

Makes sense to me.

The simple fact is lots of people just don't like Non Residents. Even if the opportunity perceived loss will never affect them anyway, they would rather not see a NR hunt. It's been said over and over on here

[Lefty-Canuck]

We should do unto other as other do unto us.

If certain species are "locked out" in other jurisdictions to non-residents. Then perhaps we should "lock out" those species to those who hail from those areas.

The fact is there is not enough to go around when it comes to certain areas or species.

Who here takes out a loan to donate to charity?

I feel the first issue to tackle is residency/hunting eligibility....then move from there. Outfitting has a place in this Province no doubt there, but let's offer opportunity for species we can afford to offer opportunity for.

Tough winter? Tags need adjustment? Every stake holder should be reduced the same proportion....ie residents 100 to 80 tags, outfitters 5 to 4 tags.

We all have a stake in the game.

LC

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by nube

I'd say have twice the experience with him and go twice.
Not sure if possible but draw the tag and partner with him. It will be as meaningful for u as it is to him no matter who shoots it.

Then go back in a few more years and do it all over again.

That is exactly what i was thinking... enjoy the hunt 2 times.

[Deer Hunter]

Wouldn't you rather 10% of the trophy pronghorn draw tags go into a lottery style draw for residents? Rather than to outfitters?
And the other 90% go to the current priority based draw, with out the non resident applicants?
Then you could at least claim that a new resident applicant actually stands a chance... even if it was only a 60/36,000 chance.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Wouldn't you rather 10% of the trophy pronghorn draw tags go into a lottery style draw for residents? Rather than to outfitters?
And the other 90% go to the current priority based draw, with out the non resident applicants?
Then you could at least claim that a new resident applicant actually stands a chance... even if it was only a 60/36,000 chance.

Still looks like you are in in the greedy bunch pool that wants to give yourself a better chance at a tag instead of bettering the herd numbers, killing more predators or decreasing doe tags......
But of course nothing wrong with heading to other provinces or countries in your mind either to do a few hunts as well....
unreal!
For all the good a few tags would do for Albertans and conservation you would still rather give yourself that 0.0016 of a % chance more to get yourself a tag.
That is truly just awesome lol
Ron if you really want to do something for change stop the BS on here and talk to the Gov't officials. Maybe even APOS. Maybe the real people who actually make a difference.

[bucknaked333]

I don't mind waiting for my turn. I apply for archery tags and trophy tags and can get a tag every 5-6 years. If I was to do it every year I don't think it would be as much of a novelty.

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by nube

Tell me what is going to change with your so called new system guys?

So you take out the outfitters and you get a whole whopping 60 more tags a year. Tell me your great strategy next please and how that will affect you?

It's simple in my mind if we have to wait 10 years to hunt a species in Alberta then the Outfitters should not be outfitting for that species in my opinion

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[boah]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

It's simple in my mind if we have to wait 10 years to hunt a species in Alberta then the Outfitters should not be outfitting for that species in my opinion

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I agree. But there are some people that think that others should be taken care of before our own. That's the same way our prime minister thinks about Canadians.

[sillyak]

Originally Posted by boah

I agree. But there are some people that think that others should be taken care of before our own. That's the same way our prime minister thinks about Canadians.

I disagree. Although by no means should outfitter tags be as high as resident tags, there should always be outfitter tags if there are resident tags. After all I think many of us like to, or would like to, hunt outside Alberta. If we can't give people the oppertunity to hunt here with an outfitter why should we expect other jurisdictions to allow us to hunt? Who would not like to hunt Africa, New Zealand or the Yukon?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by sillyak

I disagree. Although by no means should outfitter tags be as high as resident tags, there should always be outfitter tags if there are resident tags. After all I think many of us like to, or would like to, hunt outside Alberta. If we can't give people the oppertunity to hunt here with an outfitter why should we expect other jurisdictions to allow us to hunt? Who would not like to hunt Africa, New Zealand or the Yukon?

Bingo !!!

An ungreedy voice of reason !

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by sillyak

I disagree. Although by no means should outfitter tags be as high as resident tags, there should always be outfitter tags if there are resident tags. After all I think many of us like to, or would like to, hunt outside Alberta. If we can't give people the oppertunity to hunt here with an outfitter why should we expect other jurisdictions to allow us to hunt? Who would not like to hunt Africa, New Zealand or the Yukon?

If you have read many of the other posts here you will see that most residents are suggesting that only those species where the numbers have decreased such as antelope and mule deer that outfitting be restricted. There are other species with stable populations that they can and do hunt with an outfitter. Other provinces such as Sk. already have restrictions on Antelope and Mule Deer for non-residents, its called having a commitment to your residents and not caving into a despicable and corrupt organization like APOS.

Hunting in Africa, New Zealand and Yukon are all about the money......big money. I doubt two many residents in those areas give a damn about hunting antelope here........but then you know that already.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by sillyak

I disagree. Although by no means should outfitter tags be as high as resident tags, there should always be outfitter tags if there are resident tags. After all I think many of us like to, or would like to, hunt outside Alberta. If we can't give people the oppertunity to hunt here with an outfitter why should we expect other jurisdictions to allow us to hunt? Who would not like to hunt Africa, New Zealand or the Yukon?

We can allow non residents the opportunity to hunt the animals that we have in abundance in our province, in exchange for hunting the animals that other provinces or countries have in abundance. It doesn't have to be all species or none. We don't even allow our own residents to hunt certain species because the populations of those species is not large enough to sustain a hunt.

[35 whelen]

Exactly I have nothing against Outfitters I made my living off them for 20 years and if there's not enough animals two hunt then it should be shut down for everybody for a while till they rebound

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