Shotsize and FPS for Pheasant Upland Geese and Ducks

[Bigwoodsman]

Not wanting to derail the Wingshooting percentage thread, I thought I'd ask what is your preferred shot size and velocity for fowl? I believe these two considerations would have an effect on your success or lack thereof.

Last year was my first year pheasant hunting and I used Federal Premium 2.75 #6 at 1400FPS in 12 gauge with a full choke. I only hunted pheasant 4 times on a release site and picked up 3 birds. Used the same ammunition for upland and got out twice bringing home 6 birds. I limit my take as it's only myself that enjoys these birds. In addition to limiting my bird harvest I won't pull the trigger at a bird more then 40 yards out.

It had been a dozen years since I last hunted and even longer since I picked up a shotgun with the purpose of wingshooting. Enough to say there was a lot of rust and I swear I could hear my dad hollering at me to watch the bird!

Anyways I got to thinking that as much as practice effects your harvest so does shot size, velocity, and choke. Wondering what you all use and how you come to decide what works best for you and why?

I'm looking forward to this fall and plan more trips a field. Will be getting the guns out and pattering them at 20, 25, 30, 35 and 40 yards.

BW

[elkhunter11]

I use Fiocchi Golden Pheasant #6 in 28 or 20 gauge, and I will use the same in my 16 gauge. The nickel plated shot penetrates better than unplated shot, and it doesn't drag the feathers into the flesh nearly as much. The result is that the plated shot provides the penetration of unplated #5, with the pattern density of #6. The velocity varies from 1200-1300fps depending on the gauge. My shotguns are choked IC/M or IC/IM, and with two triggers , I can choose which barrel I want to use instantly. I like to limit my shots with the 20/28 gauge to around 30-35 yards, and I will likely stretch that to 40-45 yards with the 16 gauge.

[Allseasons]

I patterned my gun many times, and yearly to refresh my memory. Just how I do it.
I don't hunt pheasant, but when I go to sask in the fall and get tired of changing snow sets, we take an evening for upland, which is a hilarious riot because myself, my brother and my dog are lost on upland birds, rarely get a shot off. A beautiful break from all hell breaking loose. Bust a gut on how useless we are, but trying to get better. A Kicks full is primarily my go to choke.

BC.
Mallards over water floating decoys/pass at lower mainland I use #4 full choke. Others use #2.
Jump shooting #6 then #5/#5 IC
I haven't hunted geese in bc for 15 years

AB
I hunt mallards over goose decoys. If I can find #3, I use for pass shooting over grains, but usually #4, but BBs are in my pocket ready for a goose flock.
Over decoys/water #4 or #5 in 3" usually.
Canada geese, BB in 3.5"

Sask
Spring snows depends on the day and the birds, usually #2 then BB in 3", but if they aren't landing on me only 1 shot of BB in 3.5. I rarely shoot a third shot. In the sask wind and a 6' wing span, they are gone out of range for the 3rd round.
Fall, Straight BB in 3.5

Don't care about the opinions, whether I'm right or wrong, just what I do, which was the OP question. I shoot a lot. I have really good days, and sometimes I have really bad shooting days, but my brother and I keep the mood very light, so the bad days are great days spent afield with my brother, son and young dog. The nose of a Weimaraner/Lab cross is truly remarkable. I use 1550-1640 fps ammo

[shooter12]

I was very happy last season with Score 1 1/8 #3 steel 1550 ft per sec out of Benelli pump modified choke.
Had very impressive kills at 40-45 yards on mallards with them and shot couple roosters but close range 25-30 yds .
Became my to go steel ducks ammo and on occasion pheasants ammo, as I prefer shooting upland with S@S gun and lead shot.

[catnthehat]

6's or 7 1/2's for upland in my shotguns no matter the gauge or smokeless or black powder, cartridge or muzzle loader.

Chokes all depend on the gun but they range from Cyl/Cyl too IC/MOD with a couple Cyl/IMPMOD.

Waterfowl if I am using modern guns and factory , 2's or 4's in steel .
Kent is good stuff.
My BP guns get around 90-100 grains of FFG and 11 11/8- 1/14oz of 2's or 4's Bismuth or Nice Shot.
Chokes are open.
Cat

[sjemac]

Early-season waterfowl, I use No. 6 steel – – including on geese. Now just so you are aware I do not particularly like eating geese so they have to be basically sucking on the gun barrel before I will shoot them. I go to number four or number three later in the season.

For Upland, I use No. 6 lead or #5 steel (if I am shooting migs too).

I always carry a few 7 1/2 steel for snipe and some No. 6 Hevishot for long water swats on crips.

I don't even look at the FPS.

[elkhunter11]

And since the OP asked about waterfowl, even though he didn't give his own opinion for waterfowl, I use Kent #4 or #2 steel, and I don't use 3-1/2" loads, as I don't need them or the recoil that they produce. I have settled on a LM choke for waterfowl.
And for the special Camp Wainwright sharptailed grouse season, I used #4 steel last year, because I had it on hand, but I have Kent #6 Bismuth loads in 16/20/28, gauge on the way for this year.

[densa44]

12 ga. is a lot of gun for a pointed bird. I shoot # 4 lead out of a cz sxs .410 and sometimes it is too much gun. For Huns and sharptails I'll use my 20 ga. with #6 lead. I reload for these 2 gauges.

Ducks and geese I shoot a 12 ga. fc and steel BBs. Most are passing shots.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

And since the OP asked about waterfowl, even though he didn't give his own opinion for waterfowl, I use Kent #4 or #2 steel, and I don't use 3-1/2" loads, as I don't need them or the recoil that they produce. I have settled on a LM choke for waterfowl.
And for the special Camp Wainwright sharptailed grouse season, I used #4 steel last year, because I had it on hand, but I have Kent #6 Bismuth loads in 16/20/28, gauge on the way for this year.

I didn't list an opinion for waterfowl, as I do not hunt waterfowl at this time. I thought I'd add waterfowl in as many on AO do hunt migratory.

I posted the thread mostly in conjunction with your thread on wing shooting percentages. I only ever shot skeet once, and that was 40 years ago. I learned from my dad and uncles who as far as I know never shot skeet, but were deadly with their shotty's. We used to hunt ducks and geese extensively, with blinds and limited amounts of decoys. The odd time we were had blinds set up watching water, but mostly hunted lying in swaths, and the odd time from the seat of a combine. Camouflage clothing wasn't heard of. I only ever shot first once, and the birds were out of range. Learned my lesson quick. At that time we used 2.75 #2, #4, and BB.

Practicing on a range is good for your form etc.,however I believe that one should practice with the same equipment, shot, clothing etc, as they would use when hunting.

In my opinion shot size, choke, velocity etc. all play a big part in your shooting percentage, just as much as practicing your form on a range.

Originally Posted by densa44

12 ga. is a lot of gun for a pointed bird. I shoot # 4 lead out of a cz sxs .410 and sometimes it is too much gun. For Huns and sharptails I'll use my 20 ga. with #6 lead. I reload for these 2 gauges.

Ducks and geese I shoot a 12 ga. fc and steel BBs. Most are passing shots.

I do hunt with a dog, she's a 8 year old Golden who had her first hunts last fall with me. We're still figuring things out. I use a 12 gauge as that is what I have and I'm used to. Maybe in time I'll shop for a 20.

For now its just being out in the field again and the walk. I limit my limit and enjoy watching the dog. One day I plan on getting another dog, this time as a pup and put some time in with him or her in the field. I could probably just go out with the dog and have as much fun without packing the gun.

My daughter wants to tag along this fall as well she's 8 so we'll see how that goes too.

BW

[rem338win]

When I did some bird hunting I liked Kent Fasteel 12ga 3" BB.

I used 2 3/4" 2s for ducks and early season i used 4s.

Upland I used plated 6s on everything.

[elkhunter11]

In my opinion shot size, choke, velocity etc. all play a big part in your shooting percentage, just as much as practicing your form on a range.

My own experiences lead me to believe that people put way too much emphasis on all three of those factors. As long as you don't go to extremes, like using #6 or #7-1/2 out of an IC choke to pass shoot geese at 50 yards, or using #4 buck to shoot ducks, the ability of the shooter is a much more important factor. If the pattern is not on the bird, it really doesn't matter what shot size you use, or what the velocity is, you won't kill the bird. Using a slightly faster shot makes a difference in lead, but you still need to know how much to lead, as no matter how fast the load is, you are still going to need to lead the bird in most situations. Whether you use BB, #1 or #2 , or #3 for geese, and whether you use an IC,LM, or Mod choke, if they are in range, and you place the pattern properly, they are going to die. With the pheasants you are shooting over your dog at the release sites, you would actually have to try to select a combination that would make a good wing shooter miss those birds, as pretty much any combination will kill them if you place the pattern properly. You may have nothing left to eat, but the bird will still be dead.
I have been on hunts where one individual tried pretty much every combination of load and choke that he could think of , including Black Cloud, Hevi Metal, and Blindside loads in 3-1'2", along with high dollar specialty waterfowl chokes, and it made very little difference in how many birds he killed. Meanwhile the rest of us kept using our cheaper Kent Fasteel loads in our cheaper chokes, and we were killing many more birds than he was.
This discussion is a lot like discussing big game bullet selection, if the bullet is placed properly, as long as it is somewhat suitable for big game, and has adequate impact velocity, the animal will die. If the bullets misses , the animal will not be killed.

[Bigwoodsman]

If the pattern is not on the bird, it really doesn't matter what shot size you use, or what the velocity is, you won't kill the bird.

That makes a heck of a lot of sense. I'll be working on my patterning and form.

Thanks for the insight elkhunter11

BW

[Ariu]

I use one load recipe with different shot sizes. #1 @1650fps over for mixed ducks and geese over decoys and for past flying ducks. At the end of the season when these buggers don't commit, I use #B or #BB - the speed is the same.
Steel #5 for upland.
Chokes used are different. IC, M, IM whichever performs better on the gun and shot I am using.

[wwbirds]

On the old shotgun shell boxes they had a chart for shot sizes and species I believe it went along the lines of geese #2 Ducks #4, 5 Ducks pheasant and upland #5, 6 and 7.5 and pigeons doves 7.5 and 8 or as close as I can recall. The thinking after lead became mandatory was go 2 sizes larger so if you used 5 lead for ducks switch to #3 steel.
I have probably killed pheasants with everything in my leftover game bag #2 to #7.5 so I dont think shot size matters much nor choke. If you hit them hard they will die. Break a neck or a wing they will come down. The very young native hunters m(12-14) in James bay that guided us over 30 years ago used lead #5 shot in full choke 410 shotguns as they said they weren't trying to kill them just break a wing.
Choke controls pattern and it would be perfect if we could always control the range of our shots like the ideal 22 yards of a skeet choke but realistically if one pellet breaks a wing from a full choke or an improved cylinder they stil come down yet the pattern may be different by 3 feet at certain ranges. When I shoot steel shot I always use IC as it patterns the best in all my shotguns and would never put steel through a full choke.
Personally I have never missed a bird because of shot size, choke or speed of shot.
When I miss I blame the guy behind the shotgun

[elkhunter11]

I have probably killed pheasants with everything in my leftover game bag #2 to #7.5 so I dont think shot size matters much nor choke. If you hit them hard they will die. Break a neck or a wing they will come down. The very young native hunters m(12-14) in James bay that guided us over 30 years ago used lead #5 shot in full choke 410 shotguns as they said they weren't trying to kill them just break a wing.
Choke controls pattern and it would be perfect if we could always control the range of our shots like the ideal 22 yards of a skeet choke but realistically if one pellet breaks a wing from a full choke or an improved cylinder they stil come down yet the pattern may be different by 3 feet at certain ranges. When I shoot steel shot I always use IC as it patterns the best in all my shotguns and would never put steel through a full choke.
Personally I have never missed a bird because of shot size, choke or speed of shot.
When I miss I blame the guy behind the shotgun

Exactly my point!

[ruffy71]

Elk hunter, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of 16 G do you have and where did you get it? My dad had an ancient SxS that I loved to shoot. Love that gauge for upland.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by ruffy71

Elk hunter, if you don't mind me asking, what kind of 16 G do you have and where did you get it? My dad had an ancient SxS that I loved to shoot. Love that gauge for upland.

I purchased a Grulla 216RB that was on consignment at Prophet River. It is a sidelock SxS gun. I bought it because the price was just too good to pass up, and it fit me perfectly. It will likely get some use for sharptailed grouse and wild pheasants, but more for backing up inexperienced shooters.

[aulrich]

For Geese bb Ducks 2's or 4's anything steel is doing 1500 fps and mostly a modified choke but I do keep IC handy if the decoys are working extra good that day

#6 for upland though I have used #5 not for killing power but to thin the pattern with the 12 ga IC/M

[sjemac]

I only use one choke tube. It is an extra full extended choke tube of some generic brand or other. Don't know why I never switch to the others anymore but I don't. Just means you have to give close flushing pheasants a three count before you pull the trigger.

[densa44]

Just a hint. If you are going to add a pup, my advice would be to add the little guy while your older dog can help with the training. It can be a very big help, showing him the ropes as it were.

If you decide on a pointing dog the old dog can still be a big help.

Your 8 year old can learn to be a great dog handler with the correct instruction at the beginning.

Let us know how your season goes, if you want to pull a trigger over a pointing dog shoot me a pm.

[Battle Rat]

I don't flow the idea of bigger, bird bigger shot size.
I had better success with smaller shot/ denser pattern.
Considering it does not require a large shot size to penetrate the head of a goose.
But a single pellet of large shot size to the body of a goose is not always effective.
Lead for the head and hit with many small pellets.

[Sundog57]

Years ago Delta Waterfowl did a huge study on ducks.
The upshot was pretty much 1 1/4oz #3 at 1450 or faster will give you enough pattern density and penetration for any duck. According to them #4s didn't offer adequate penetration at 40yds to be consistently fatal and #2s didn't offer a dense enough pattern to meet their ctriteria (if memory stands it was three pellets in the body cavity at 40yds) This was before 3 1/2".
I have gone by this for many years and if I do my part it works.
I have gone to complete non-tox so use Winchester Super X 1 1/16oz x 1550 4s or 5s for pheasants and 6s for anything else. On my gun through a modified choke they fold Rusty like a paper bag at 40yds +
I have also found that the effectiveness of steel shot is directly proportional to the amount of clay in the off season.

[IBEX]

Pick up a box of Clever Mirage H.V. game loads #6, 2 3/4". I think P and D sells them. Beyond impressive performance on Pheasants and other upland birds.

For ducks I prefer #6's and 4's for early season and #2's for Geese.
Look into pattern master choke tubes with stud ring, makes a huge difference for steel shot. Buy the cheapest and it will shoot like premium steel.

I prefer shooting my 20 ga for all waterfowling, 7/8 oz is more than adequate for a clean kill. Don't buy into the hype of 3 1/2", 1 1/4 oz loads. But do save up for plenty of shells as ducks are no easy target. Very easy to miss judge the distance, angle, and speed.

Federal premium #7 1/2 out of my 28 and .410 for general grouse shooting.

Loaded some 16 gauge, #7 1/2 1oz lead with 24 gr. of 800x using rem sp16 wads, topped off with a little shot buffer. Should be plenty for pheasants this fall out of a mod choke.