Which Scope? Advice Needed!

HunterDave · #1 12-09-2010, 06:45 PM

Yet another thread looking for advice on which scope to buy.

I've been thinking about changing my Leupold VXII 3-9x50 with a duplex recticle for a higher power scope with a BDC recticle. Since I started reloading last winter my accuracy has improve significantly and I'd like to be able to be confident shooting out to 500 yds without having to hold over. Right now I have a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 on my 3006 and the VXII is on my 300 win mag. I'd like to put the Burris on the 300 win mag and buy a new scope for my main hunting rifle, the 3006.

I've been looking online at the different scopes and recticles and I came up with a preliminary list. I'm familiar with the Leupold and the Burris scopes but not the others so they may not even be comparable. I don't mind spending up to the highest costing scope but if there is one that is comparable then what is the point. Here is the preliminary list starting with the lowest costing scope that I think I can buy it for:

Burris Fullfield II Ballistic Plex 4.5-14x42 $330

Bushnell Elite 3200 DOA 600 4-12x40 $335

Nikon Monarch #8420 BDC Recticle 3-12x42 $350

Burris Fullfield II Ballistic Plex 6-20x50 $400

Nikon Monarch #8422 BDC Recticle 4-16x42 $450

Leupold VXII #61285 LR Duplex 4-12x40 $510

Having the same scopes on both rifles might be consideration but I don't really use the 300 win mag enough for me to really worry about that.

I'd appreciate any opinions on what scopes I might want to eliminate from the above list, add to it, run right out and buy, tell me that I'm out to lunch with the list...............whatever, have at it. Thanks in advance!

#2 12-09-2010, 06:47 PM

To me, the Nikon BDC is the most awkward ballistic reticle I've ever looked through.

gergarin · #3 12-09-2010, 06:55 PM

Over hold is an issue of range estimation. Most scopes with over hold compensators work on a fixed size ratio say the size of a deer.With an animal the size of a moose they are not as good.

If you know for example that your 30-06 with a 180 gr is 52 inches low when zeroed at 200 it is very easy to fiqure out the overhold if you can actually estimate the range. On a moose 52 inches is the distance from the top of the hump to the knees.place the cross hair on the hump and if your scope is graduated like mine, pic the crosser that correspond to the knee. Place that crosser on just below the hump and let drive. I have shot a moose at a genuine 650 yds with my 338 Rum using this method. Works for me.

Jerry D · #4 12-09-2010, 07:03 PM

The scope that I hear the most about for a bdc reticle is the zeiss conquest line...

I would look for a good condition used one as that should be in the top end of your price range.

purgatory.sv · #5 12-09-2010, 07:20 PM

Bushnell Elite 3200 DOA 600 4-12x40 $335
my eyes and brain seem to like the reticle

HunterDave · #6 12-09-2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gergarin

Over hold is an issue of range estimation. Most scopes with over hold compensators work on a fixed size ratio say the size of a deer.With an animal the size of a moose they are not as good.

If you know for example that your 30-06 with a 180 gr is 52 inches low when zeroed at 200 it is very easy to fiqure out the overhold if you can actually estimate the range. On a moose 52 inches is the distance from the top of the hump to the knees.place the cross hair on the hump and if your scope is graduated like mine, pic the crosser that correspond to the knee. Place that crosser on just below the hump and let drive. I have shot a moose at a genuine 650 yds with my 338 Rum using this method. Works for me.

I get what you're saying. I'm pretty good at judging distances, give or take 100 yds....

I just like the idea of judging 300 yds and putting the 2nd hash mark on the animal as opposed to a normal crosshair where I have to remember that at 300 yds my bullet will drop 16" and then judge the holdover. I can be lazy like that sometimes.

209x50 · #7 12-09-2010, 07:32 PM

If you are serious on shooting the longer yards I'd step up to a scope with a good ballistic reticle or adjustable target turrets. The Rapid Z in the conquest line works very well for me and comes in 600, 800 and 1000 yard models.

HunterDave · #8 12-09-2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 209x50

If you are serious on shooting the longer yards I'd step up to a scope with a good ballistic reticle or adjustable target turrets. The Rapid Z in the conquest line works very well for me and comes in 600, 800 and 1000 yard models.

Good point. I'm just not sure if I want to be lugging a scope around the bush with target turrets sticking out of it though. Knowing me I'd break something pretty quick. I'll only ever practice out to 500 yds on the range anyway so for me a BDC recticle would be easier than adjusting for elevation and windage.

Blade · #9 12-09-2010, 08:15 PM

zeiss or swarovski u would never look back

justinO · #10 12-09-2010, 08:43 PM

The rapid Z does not have target turrets

7mmremmag · #11 12-09-2010, 08:53 PM

I just recently purchased a Burris Fullfield II, 4.5-14x42mm with the ballistic reticle. It is a very nice scope and I really like it on my 300 rum. The only thing I dont like is that the crosshairs are really fine, hard to pick up in low light levels.
Also where are you getting this scope for 330$ Mine was significantly more than that!
I also have a Vortex Crossfire 4-16x50mm AO, Illuminated Reticle, and it is very very nice on my Benelli R1

HunterDave · #12 12-09-2010, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade

zeiss or swarovski u would never look back

Zeiss Conquest maybe, but Swarovski!

That's AWAY out of my league!

HunterDave · #13 12-09-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7mmremmag

I just recently purchased a Burris Fullfield II, 4.5-14x42mm with the ballistic reticle. It is a very nice scope and I really like it on my 300 rum. The only thing I dont like is that the crosshairs are really fine, hard to pick up in low light levels.
Also where are you getting this scope for 330$ Mine was significantly more than that!

I found the same thing with my Burris. I just thought that it was my eyes though. Also, pm sent.

gitrdun · #14 12-09-2010, 09:05 PM

I really don't like scopes that obstruct my vision with a bunch of stuff and heavy reticles. I want something with fine crosshairs and a nice small dot in the middle. The ballistic plex thingy's confuse me, I prefer to hold-over and make my own call.

209x50 · #15 12-09-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Good point. I'm just not sure if I want to be lugging a scope around the bush with target turrets sticking out of it though. Knowing me I'd break something pretty quick. I'll only ever practice out to 500 yds on the range anyway so for me a BDC recticle would be easier than adjusting for elevation and windage.

OK, then you'll be best served by a system that allows you to adjust the POI of the various crosshairs to your exact load. The Rapid Z allows you to do this.

HunterDave · #16 12-09-2010, 09:15 PM

Checking the Rapid Z right now.

gitrdun · #17 12-09-2010, 09:32 PM

Hey...perhaps some of these scope reticle people designer engineers decided that they could sell scopes based on the "idiot factor" ???? Just another good marketing strategy. Remember the good old Weaver days with simple fine crosshears?

#18 12-09-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Hey...perhaps some of these scope reticle people designer engineers decided that they could sell scopes based on the "idiot factor" ???? Just another good marketing strategy. Remember the good old Weaver days with simple fine crosshears?

Yup, I remember 8-tracks, typewriters and cell phones that looked like bricks with an atenna.....they all worked but thankfully we've progressed so much further

HunterDave · #19 12-09-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Hey...perhaps some of these scope reticle people designer engineers decided that they could sell scopes based on the "idiot factor" ????

Yup, that's exactly what I'm looking for........Something idiot proof.....lol!

HunterDave · #20 12-09-2010, 09:47 PM

Yeah, I like that Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z 800 in 4.5-14x44. VERY nice recticle in comparison to what I've been looking at and I know the glass will be great! Now I have to decide if I need/deserve something that nice/expensive. Then I'll have to decide what I have to sell in order to get one. Do you think that my wife would notice the TV missing?

I was kind of hoping that everyone would tell me that the Bushnell was the best scope!

#21 12-09-2010, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Yeah, I like that Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z 800 in 4.5-14x44. VERY nice recticle in comparison to what I've been looking at and I know the glass will be great! Now I have to decide if I need/deserve something that nice/expensive. Then I'll have to decide what I have to sell in order to get one. Do you think that my wife would notice the TV missing?

I was kind of hoping that everyone would tell me that the Bushnell was the best scope!

The Rapid Z reticles are somewhat cartridge dependant. Any Rapid Z reticle can be used with any cartridge but to make sure your proper zoom setting is near the highest power on the scope, it's best to pick the reticle that best suits your cartridge. Without looking at the website to confirm, I'd guess that the Z600 is better suited to the 30-06.

HunterDave · #22 12-09-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

The Rapid Z reticles are somewhat cartridge dependant. Any Rapid Z reticle can be used with any cartridge but to make sure your proper zoom setting is near the highest power on the scope, it's best to pick the reticle that best suits your cartridge. Without looking at the website to confirm, I'd guess that the Z600 is better suited to the 30-06.

Yup, you're exactly right Sheephunter. I just checked the website and the Rapid Z 600 is the one that I need for my 3006. That means I have to get the 3.5-10x44 scope and I only have to sell the smaller TV not the big one!

I've got allot of research/thinking to do now.

Kale_M · #23 12-09-2010, 10:56 PM

check out the Vortex line

gitrdun · #24 12-09-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Yup, I remember 8-tracks, typewriters and cell phones that looked like bricks with an atenna.....they all worked but thankfully we've progressed so much further

Yup, but back then, we knew what 12" over the shoulder was and didn't need GPS's, spectacular reticles to do our work for us. I know what 12" oven the shoulder is at: at 100, 200, 300 and 400 yds. I don't need all of this techno chit to work things out for me. And yes, I did use a compass to find my way back to camp.

#25 12-09-2010, 11:07 PM

Some new tools help us do things better than the old tools. For long range shooting, ballistic reticles and adjustable turrets are definitely better tools.....

HunterDave · #26 12-09-2010, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale_M

check out the Vortex line

Will do. Who's selling those?

gitrdun · #27 12-09-2010, 11:13 PM

Hunter....check out the Sightron line. I just bought a fixed power 36x. they are very nice. don't knwo if they fit your bill, but google IS your friend.

HunterDave · #28 12-09-2010, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Hunter....check out the Sightron line. I just bought a fixed power 36x. they are very nice. don't knwo if they fit your bill, but google IS your friend.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

209x50 · #29 12-10-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitrdun

Yup, but back then, we knew what 12" over the shoulder was and didn't need GPS's, spectacular reticles to do our work for us. I know what 12" oven the shoulder is at: at 100, 200, 300 and 400 yds. I don't need all of this techno chit to work things out for me. And yes, I did use a compass to find my way back to camp.

I'm sure you don't mean it this way but your statement comes across very much as mocking people who are looking to take the guess work out of shooting longer distances. You may very well be a wizard at guessing that 12" at 500 yards or what ever it is you need. If others wish to use a product or reticle that guarantees that amount of hold over without guessing then I don't think it is very considerate to be judging people who wish to be accurate and don't want to guess or hold over but simply take the best shot they can.
For me I would never take a shot at game without ranging it first and I don't have to guess the difference in bullet drop between 300 and 500 yards. I can whack the 8" 700 yard gong each and every try using the RapidZ reticle and alternate between 700 and 500 yards if I want and not miss a shot. No guess work or hold over involved, just drop the right crosshair on the spot and pull the trigger.

heathlight · #30 12-10-2010, 07:38 AM

Check out the review's on the minox scopes. They make a really nice scope and compete directly against Zeiss. The one you might like is the ZA 5 3-15x42 and comes in a bdc reticle, and sells for around $500 at Cabelas Canada. They also sell a 2-10x40 with a bdc as well. My friend and I have a pair of their binos each and we are very impressed with them.