2013 Archery Mule deer going on Draw

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Not sure where the information has been gathered regarding stagnant numbers of bow hunters, because my experience is that the numbers are on the rise. I can personally account for approximately 10 new bowhunters in the last 2 years!
Which poses the question again, how has the harvest increased to the magic 15% if no new bow hunters have entered the game? Are people suggesting there have been great strides in the evolution of all bow hunters and they are now "killing machines"?
If the number of bow hunters has increased, the 15% cap should also.

People get old and give up the sport. Others cannot spend the time required to bowhunt and tend to head out with the rifle as well.

If you helped 10 new bowhunters get started good on you. I know at least as many who have hung it up. Family reasons, health, work.....it all slows them down.

I takes awhile for most people to really get rolling in archery anyway. Lots of hours spent to take an animal with a bow.

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

T.J,

Is there a link somewhere that shows this information on the new rules in 2013 on the mule deer season? I am getting this correct that it is only certain zones that will be under draw or will it be provincial wide

Thanks.

Not thatI know of and the info I saw never identified any WMUs and it stated that only WMUs where the 15% was being exceeded would be affected.

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

True, but how many do not currently factor into the draw? I know a pile of bowhunters that will 999 or not even bother to apply since they just go out and hunt mulies on a general. If that were to change and they could not hunt mule deer close to home then they will apply. I'm thinking some central zones will see a substantial jump in applications.

We could both be making some big generalizations and maybe wait and see eh?

I see a huge disincentive as an archer to ever participate in their surveys again. I think most guys right now don't even give the real wmu if they harvest an animal on a general tag anyways.

I'd guess there are about 500 bow only hunters in the province. take out the harvest by bow hunters on general tags and add the 500 and I don't see an increase in draw wait times at all. In some zones I suspect you'd see a decrease.

You realize what a bad light your last statement paints bow hunters in right?

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Not thatI know of and the info I saw never identified any WMUs and it stated that only WMUs where the 15% was being exceeded would be affected.

Thx

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'd guess there are about 500 bow only hunters in the province. take out the harvest by bow hunters on general tags and add the 500 and I don't see an increase in draw wait times at all. In some zones I suspect you'd see a decrease.

You realize what a bad light your last statement paints bow hunters in right?

Not sure we are on the same page. Are you saying that a brand new bowhunter is going to walk out of the store and harvest something on the first go?

I spent at least a year of blown stand set ups, stalks, and a couple outright misses before I connected. After that it wasn't so bad. You have to pay some dues if you are going to handicap yourself with your equipment choice?

It will take more hours in the field to harvest an animal with archery equipment.

What did you think I meant? .

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Not sure we are on the same page. Are you saying that a brand new bowhunter is going to walk out of the store and harvest something on the first go?

I spent at least a year of blown stand set ups, stalks, and a couple outright misses before I connected. After that it wasn't so bad. You have to pay some dues if you are going to handicap yourself with your equipment choice?

It will take more hours in the field to harvest an animal with archery equipment.

What did you think I meant?

No, I'm not saying that at all. I have no idea what you are getting at. I'm saying there are a maximum of 500 bow only hunters that don't rifle hunt too. Possibly they don't apply for tags currently. I'm saying if you take out the current bow harvest in the general season and make everyone apply, those extra 500 won't increase wait times at all because there will be no general archery season harvest so the number of tags available will increase by at least 15%. I made no comment about new bow hunters one way or the other.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

No, I'm not saying that at all. I have no idea what you are getting at.

Okay I understand which statement now. I was not reading which post you quoted only skimming what you wrote. Maybe a little melodramatic. I should be using the inside voice on issues that strike a chord.

It is a pet peeve. I over stated it.

My apologies if anyone is offended.

[Full Curl Earl]

After it was suggested that this is all fairly simple math, I wanted to see the numbers for myself, and here is what I discovered on My Wild Alberta Provincial sales stats. By subtracting the Resident Bowhunting License sales from the Number of Resident Hunters, which is not perfect, but the only way the Province would be able to do it as well, we can arrive at the number of Firearms hunters and Archery, in two individual groups. Yes, some of these Archery hunters will most likely be Gun hunters as well, but thats not whats important. What is important is that the statement that Archery numbers are fairly stagnant holds no water. Archery license sales increased by 11.65% over a 4 year period, while "firearms" hunter numbers only increased by 4.51%.
I cant see any disputing the numbers, its simple math as was suggested. Archery hunting has grown at a rate that is more than double that of Firearm hunters. Archery hunters make up approximately 18.9% of the total of all Resident hunters, should this be the new 15% line? I think that would be fair.

Current season sales are as of March 31, 2012.

Hunting Licence Sales Statistics
Season 2008 2009 2010 2011
Number of Resident Hunters 100,820 102,193 104,889 105,389
Resident Bowhunting 14,974 15,406 16,639 16,716


Licences Sold
Resident Black Bear 11,612 11,325 12,559 12,693
Resident Mule Deer 42,301 39,510 40,824 36,589
Resident White-tailed Deer 106,572 111,455 117,585 117,717
Resident Elk 32,089 32,408 33,507 35,079
Resident Moose 19,823 19,415 19,359 19,277
Resident Sheep 2,425 2,495 2,491 2,402
Resident Antelope 1,364 1,936 1,798 229
Resident Game Bird 42,094 39,355 40,193 38,813
Resident Pheasant 6,501 6,070 5,345 5,317

[Full Curl Earl]

My appologies for the difficult to read data, It was all spaced out appropriately when I submitted it!

[338Bluff]

If they do enforce the 15 % policy then would SRD consider the same format as antelope? Where an archery tag is an archery tag? Is there benefit to that approach?

Maybe most would still like the two season hunter 'status quo'.

I'm sort of split on the idea myself.

[Full Curl Earl]

I like the split idea like the Antelope if it needs to happen.

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

My appologies for the difficult to read data, It was all spaced out appropriately when I submitted it!

I get what you are driving at now. Thanks for posting the numbers. Maybe they need to round it up to 20% to account for the trend continuing?

Actually makes me happy to see a little growth, I really did think it was the opposite.

Earl I'll admit that math isn't my strongest suit but if we have a total of 105,309 hunters and 16,716 of those are bow hunters, doesn't that mean that a little over 15% are bow hunters? 15.86% if I'm not mistaken.

[trouty]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

No it wouldn't. The number has nothing to do with success rates and everything to with harvest numbers. Archer numbers aren't limited by draw to 15% of tags they are on general unlike rifle hunters.

Doesn't success mean you harvested an animal? The whole problem is their data is garbage. If 50 guys reply to the survey and 10 are successful bowhunters does that make an accurate assessment, although 200 tags were sold? Harvest information needs to be mandatory to be able to make those types of decisions.

If the data collection stays the same, you bet bow hunters won't fill out the survey. And don't pretend it's about conservation.

[solocam]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Just kind of curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on the fact that this will be the last year of being able to buy a general Mule buck Tag in Alberta For Archery purposes?

I Know about 3 years ago myself and some buddies thought up this same idea,for a variety of reasons....I even posted\Made A thread on here about the exact same subject! I was laughed at..."Thanks for the Chuckle" I believe Steve or someone said.

Eitherway... now i'm not sure if Putting Archery Mule buck on draw is the right move?I know for sure that Trophy quility will improve,however maybe to cut down on the ever increaseing mule buck archery harvest,the government should be cutting the outfitter and non resident canadian harvest???(just a thought) What do you guys think should be done?

Eitherway enjoy the General 2012 mulebuck season,because it's going to be the last!

The only thing I remember About your Thread that you started was how much you dislike Bow hunting and what a Great shot you are with a rifle Thanks for the Chuckle is right!!!

[Lefty-Canuck]

SO a couple questions I am confused on with the 15% "magic number"

.....do things go on draw when bowhunter numbers hit 15% of the total number of hunters?

.....so in other words they sell bow permits to 15% of the people who buy hunting licenses and then that sets off warning bells?

.....or do things go on draw when bowhunting accounts for 15% of the total harvest of a species?

LC

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

SO a couple questions I am confused on with the 15% "magic number"

.....do things go on draw when bowhunter numbers hit 15% of the total number of hunters?

.....so in other words they sell bow permits to 15% of the people who buy hunting licenses and then that sets off warning bells?

.....or do things go on draw when bowhunting accounts for 15% of the total harvest of a species?

LC

Harvest

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Harvest

Thanks that's what I figured.

LC

[Full Curl Earl]

TJ, I subtracted the number of Archery permits sold, from the total number of Resident Hunting Licenses sold to obtain a fair representation of bowhunters VS firearm hunters. Without personal contact with all purchasers, this should be the closest number. I re-checked my numbers and they seem in line, as well as the %, but I am no mathematician.

[walking buffalo]

The numbers needed to be compared is Rifle Antlered Mule deer hunters Vs. Archery Antlered Mule deer hunters.

Anything else will give a wrong representation of the ratio.

[KCL]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

TJ, I subtracted the number of Archery permits sold, from the total number of Resident Hunting Licenses sold to obtain a fair representation of bowhunters VS firearm hunters. Without personal contact with all purchasers, this should be the closest number. I re-checked my numbers and they seem in line, as well as the %, but I am no mathematician.

TJ's number is right, 15.86%

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by KCL

TJ's number is right, 15.86%

That number is right, to represent the amount of bow hunters!

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

The numbers needed to be compared is Rifle Antlered Mule deer hunters Vs. Archery Antlered Mule deer hunters.

Anything else will give a wrong representation of the ratio.

but WB, is right, we need to look at the % of archery MD hunters vs rifle MD hunters, and it needs to be broken down by wmu, and have ACTUAL information on harvest numbers! Archery MD harvest vs rifle MD harvests per wmu and see what the actual % is!

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

That number is right, to represent the amount of bow hunters!



but WB, is right, we need to look at the % of archery MD hunters vs rifle MD hunters, and it needs to be broken down by wmu, and have ACTUAL information on harvest numbers! Archery MD harvest vs rifle MD harvests per wmu and see what the actual % is!

Thats exactly it, To me this would be and is the best way to get the correct information. I think they may be surprised what they found if they were to do it this way.

[LCCFisherman]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

You are sick and tired of all these archery guys shooting monsters with high crops and bucks are stupid. Did you actually think about this statment before you typed it in

Do you think these monsters you talk about are so smart in November exspecially the last 10 days of november

There are way bigger issues here than bowhunters

Are you bowhunters all blind? Look at all the magazines out there.. the biggest mule deer are shot early with bows in alberta, or bows/muzzleloaders in saskatchewan. Over the counter bow licenses are BS. I don't want to bowhunt for the "sport" of it.. the only reason I'd do it would be to shoot these early season bucks..

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by LCCFisherman

Are you bowhunters all blind? Look at all the magazines out there.. the biggest mule deer are shot early with bows in alberta, or bows/muzzleloaders in saskatchewan. Over the counter bow licenses are BS. I don't want to bowhunt for the "sport" of it.. the only reason I'd do it would be to shoot these early season bucks..

No were not blind, we shoot Big Bucks with our bows

If you think its so easy to shoot a 180 plus mule deer with your bow why dont you amuse us "blind" bowhunters and go pick your self up a tag this fall and show us all how easy it is.

What about whitetails, Elk and the rest of the animals that are in bow season
are all those licenses B.S too

I am getting the feeling you just think that bowhunting in general is just not fair at all, Like there should not even be a bowseason

[LCCFisherman]

I have no problem with any other species but Mulies. The record books don't lie.

I have the same view of over the counter bow tags for both provinces. You sure see alot more trophy mulies shot on WildTV then anything else in both SK and AB.

Coincidence?

[Full Curl Earl]

TJ's number is incorrect, ( no disrespect TJ). I think the error being made by some, is in not subtracting the archery license sales numbers from the Resident hunter numbers. If you dont, then your in fact counting the archers twice, in a round about way. Skewing the numbers the same way SRD maybe as well. At least that's what I come up with, but since we can't get together on the initial debate, I don't see us all agreeing on the numbers game. As said, mandatory registration would be the only true measure.

[albertadeer]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

No were not blind, we shoot Big Bucks with our bows

If you think its so easy to shoot a 180 plus mule deer with your bow why dont you amuse us "blind" bowhunters and go pick your self up a tag this fall and show us all how easy it is.

What about whitetails, Elk and the rest of the animals that are in bow season
are all those licenses B.S too

I am getting the feeling you just think that bowhunting in general is just not fair at all, Like there should not even be a bowseason

Best way to kill a slug mule deer is in early season.....

A 180" is nothing to get excited over in the early season....Well maybe now that the mule deer numbers are lower then i have ever seen.....


Man am i ever glad they are putting them on draw!

Finally some good management!

[Drop_Tine]

Originally Posted by hal53

you're making yourself sound like a whiny 12 year old....easy, big fella!!!

Are u for real?? Maybe you mis-read the post again ... Please put on you coke bottle glasses Old Timer!!

Anyway im done with this thread , its another " Maybe thread " & i got a fishing tournament to win!!

Ta ta gay boys!!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by LCCFisherman

Are you bowhunters all blind? Look at all the magazines out there.. the biggest mule deer are shot early with bows in alberta, or bows/muzzleloaders in saskatchewan. Over the counter bow licenses are BS. I don't want to bowhunt for the "sport" of it.. the only reason I'd do it would be to shoot these early season bucks..

Help me here!

Are you saying that archery tackle is more proficient than rifles or that bowhunters are better hunters than rifle guys?

Seriously there are big deer shot all season, with all types of equipment. you need to put down the fall editions and pick up the winter ones, you'll see that a lot monsters are taken with rifles in the rut .

The mentality that bowhunters are killing all the big bucks in early season needs to stop! It makes the people saying it look inadequate , and silly! Bowhunters are like everyone else, they hunt when the season opens, and hunt just as hard in the rut! Heck my biggest buck was shot in November , with a rifle.

The few bowhunters that shoot big deer consistently , don't just shoot them in sept! And those guys do put more, time, money and effort , than the average guy!

How many scouting days have you put in so far? I know how many I have put already!