Archery Mule Deer Draw for 2013 Season?

[eggo]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

....thats my point, I AM looking at everything. The only thing you have mentioned here is "the bowhunters"....

Honestly I rifle and I bow hunt sometimes equally/sometimes 1 more than the other, I already have about 15-20 days bowhunting under my belt (not including scouting days which I lost count of) I haven't shot anything yet.....I rarely bow hunt mule deer exclusively.

I just hate seeing opportunities for hunters shift and change as part of a game management stategy that is running off the rails....backed by some nonempirical "data".

LC

It's because bow hunters don't look at themselves. It is a problem in some areas. At least admit it.

[curtisb]

Originally Posted by eggo

I am so tired bow hunters that there better their never part of the problem. Hello there is no problems and if there is the rifle hunters are to blame. Everyone and everything but them. Iam a better hunter because I hunt with bow.I need more because I am a bow hunter. I have no need to even consider another point of view.

Well... I read the whole thread and have to say I'm at least 15% stupider... lol
It also did get the blood boiling.

Guys; there are no facts. I think H380 nailed it, 2 sides pitted against one another; and the stronger side will win. Same reason resident Albertan's don't reside in Teepees.

Here's my (3) non factual opions/aguement for the little guy (bowhunter side):

1. there is a big BIG difference between a bowhunter and a guy who bowhunts. BIG difference in menality also.
2. it is exponentially more difficult to harvest an aminal with a bow than a rifle, muzzleloader, or Xbow. for people who hunt with bows, or bowhunters to say that "anyone" can kill an animal with a gun is absolutely ridiculous, borderline out of line.
3. i really and truly believe the numbers of mule deer harvested by bow hunters have no effect on the annual harvest, NONE!. again not based on fact or fiction, purely opinion, the same way SRD are doing it. the 15% doesn't mean anything. (IMO) what is happening now is that the supposid 15% harvest is taking 15% of opportunity(or in some cases more) from the guys who waited for their draw tags. (most of which hunt with guns - whom are the majority - whom ultimately make the decisions.) sad but true.
4. therefore, a draw system will do nothing.

Clear, I think so... an arguement for the ages.

I hunt don't hunt with a bow. I'm a bow hunter, and I know 100% that it's not a battle we can win or will win...lol

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by eggo

It's because bow hunters don't look at themselves. It is a problem in some areas. At least admit it.

Eggo, 43 posts since nov 2009, 36 of them are anti bowhunting posts..... Why don't you post with your original account? Instead of a second?..... 2 accounts is a no no around here.... LOL.....

[Dan Boone]

I agree with the Bowhunter as opposed to hunter thst hunts with a bow.
I am the guy who hunts with a bow.

And my points concerning choosing your weapon would seperate the Bowhunters from the guys like me that hunt with a bow!

The rest I don't really have an oppinion on!

Originally Posted by curtisb

Well... I read the whole thread and have to say I'm at least 15% stupider... lol
It also did get the blood boiling.

Guys; there are no facts. I think H380 nailed it, 2 sides pitted against one another; and the stronger side will win. Same reason resident Albertan's don't reside in Teepees.

Here's my (3) non factual opions/aguement for the little guy (bowhunter side):

1. there is a big BIG difference between a bowhunter and a guy who bowhunts. BIG difference in menality also.
2. it is exponentially more difficult to harvest an aminal with a bow than a rifle, muzzleloader, or Xbow. for people who hunt with bows, or bowhunters to say that "anyone" can kill an animal with a gun is absolutely ridiculous, borderline out of line.
3. i really and truly believe the numbers of mule deer harvested by bow hunters have no effect on the annual harvest, NONE!. again not based on fact or fiction, purely opinion, the same way SRD are doing it. the 15% doesn't mean anything. (IMO) what is happening now is that the supposid 15% harvest is taking 15% of opportunity(or in some cases more) from the guys who waited for their draw tags. (most of which hunt with guns - whom are the majority - whom ultimately make the decisions.) sad but true.
4. therefore, a draw system will do nothing.

Clear, I think so... an arguement for the ages.

I hunt don't hunt with a bow. I'm a bow hunter, and I know 100% that it's not a battle we can win or will win...lol

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Eggo, 43 posts since nov 2009, 36 of them are anti bowhunting posts..... Why don't you post with your original account? Instead of a second?..... 2 accounts is a no no around here.... LOL.....

...interesting observation...

LC

[eggo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Eggo, 43 posts since nov 2009, 36 of them are anti bowhunting posts..... Why don't you post with your original account? Instead of a second?..... 2 accounts is a no no around here.... LOL.....

One account check it out if you like.that's your problem you think your smarter than everyone.

[KCL]

Originally Posted by eggo

i am so tired bow hunters that there better their never part of the problem. Hello there is no problems and if there is the rifle hunters are to blame. Everyone and everything but them. Iam a better hunter because i hunt with bow.i need more because i am a bow hunter. I have no need to even consider another point of view.

FAIL, at least try with your grammar, spelling and use of their, there and they're so your post makes some sense, brutal man.

[eggo]

Originally Posted by KCL

FAIL, at least try with your grammar, spelling and use of their, there and they're so your post makes some sense, brutal man.

Sorry for the spelling errors

[KCL]

Here's what's needed:
-reduce outfitter allocations to 5%
-eliminate landowner tags
-eliminate doe tags or drastically reduce
-put bow hunting on draw to monitor harvests
-put in mandatory harvest surveys
-have a faster reaction time to harsh winters and other problems that drastically affect herd numbers

I am an outfitter, bowhunter, landowner and rifle hunter. I like to think before all of those I am a conservationist. My favorite part of hunting is sitting around the campfire or cabin table and telling hunting stories, I want to do that with my boys who are 4 and 6 right now. Hope I get to.

[eggo]

I apologize to to all the bow hunters I do mean that.I really don't have a hate for bow hunters in general, I do have a problem with bow hunters with attitudes like Pottymouth

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by KCL

Here's what's needed:
-reduce outfitter allocations to 5%
-eliminate landowner tags
-eliminate doe tags or drastically reduce
-put bow hunting on draw to monitor harvests
-put in mandatory harvest surveys
-have a faster reaction time to harsh winters and other problems that drastically affect herd numbers

I am an outfitter, bowhunter, landowner and rifle hunter. I like to think before all of those I am a conservationist. My favorite part of hunting is sitting around the campfire or cabin table and telling hunting stories, I want to do that with my boys who are 4 and 6 right now. Hope I get to.

- reduce outfitter tags......yes
-eliminate landowner tags...no
- eliminate doe tags....no....reduce ....yes
- put bow on draw....no
- monitor harvests, and make them mandatory ....yes, that would give us the numbers to make an educated decision, with numbers that would support a draw for bowhunters.
-

[Lefty-Canuck]

Part of my issue with the outfitter tag allocations is they are "negotiated" and based on a 5 year projection.....well does anyone think that SRD can accurately project 5 years into the future?

....there has to be a measure instituted that at any time those numbers can change and must be adhered to....

...in case of famine, harsh winter, high calf/fawn mortality, etc.

LC

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by eggo

I apologize to to all the bow hunters I do mean that.I really don't have a hate for bow hunters in general, I do have a problem with bow hunters with attitudes like Pottymouth

Lol, muffin, are you gonna be ok,! You hate my attitude cause I caught you having 2 accounts? Or cause I don't a hate for bowhunters or rifle hunters in this fight?

43 posts and 36 are slamming bowhunters, no you don't hate bowhunters.... Funny thing is you'll remember my name, I have already forgot you! See you princess!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Part of my issue with the outfitter tag allocations is they are "negotiated" and based on a 5 year projection.....well does anyone thing that SRD can accurately project 5 years into the future?

....there has to be a measure instituted that at any time those numbers can change and must be adhered to....

...in case of famine, harsh winter, high calf/fawn mortality, etc.

LC

Very good point LC! A lot can happen in 5years

[KCL]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

- reduce outfitter tags......yes
- eliminate doe tags....no....reduce ....yes
- put bow on draw....no
- monitor harvests, and make them mandatory ....yes, that would give us the numbers to make an educated decision, with numbers that would support a draw for bowhunters.
-

So everything but bowhunting on draw, lol, you're priceless, you want everybody to take a look in the mirror but you don't need to. You are a simple man.

[jryley]

Potty we arent talking about putting all of archery on draw. We are talking about mule deer being on draw. Again, even if only 5 animals make it through in wmu 232 that would be a success in my eyes. How you can still argue small amounts of animals making it through in wmu's that are currently lacking fundamental herd numbers lacks so much logic man. It makes absolutely no sense. No one said put all of archery on draw. If whitetail numbers are strong or even average then keep WT open to archers and rifleman alike. If mule are down to well below average numbers in a wmu then how can limiting everyones take have any negative impact whatsoever??? Again, you soud like an idiot.

[jryley]

Originally Posted by KCL

So everything but bowhunting on draw, lol, you're priceless, you want everybody to take a look in the mirror but you don't need to. You are a simple man.

Absolutely clutch KCL. i guess ive been
Using too many adjectives and nouns
To get the simple point across.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by KCL

So everything but bowhunting on draw, lol, you're priceless, you want everybody to take a look in the mirror but you don't need to. You are a simple man.

If someone could show me the stats, the data and how they came up with the conclusion. I would have no problem supporting something that means helping the mule deer, even if it's archery draw.

But going for the archery draw above everything other solution is ludicrous . But when they refuse to table the stats and their facts, I'm not going to accept it.

This isn't just because it's a bowhunting issue,this is a hunting issue. If this was about rifles , I would be just as passionate.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by jryley

Potty we arent talking about putting all of archery on draw. We are talking about mule deer being on draw. Again, even if only 5 animals make it through in wmu 232 that would be a success in my eyes. How you can still argue small amounts of animals making it through in wmu's that are currently lacking fundamental herd numbers lacks so much logic man. It makes absolutely no sense. No one said put all of archery on draw. If whitetail numbers are strong or even average then keep WT open to archers and rifleman alike. If mule are down to well below average numbers in a wmu then how can limiting everyones take have any negative impact whatsoever??? Again, you soud like an idiot.

Again, I would agree. But Srd doesn't want to table any of their stats! That lacks integrity , for me. But again, the draw is not the strongest solution to a problem that hasn't even been verified .

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

If someone could show me the stats, the data and how they came up with the conclusion. I would have no problem supporting something that means helping the mule deer, even if it's archery draw.

But going for the archery draw above everything other solution is ludicrous . But when they refuse to table the stats and their facts, I'm not going to accept it.

This isn't just because it's a bowhunting issue,this is a hunting issue. If this was about rifles , I would be just as passionate.

I have to agree with all that you wrote above....that is where my issue with this is too.

LC

[KCL]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

If someone could show me the stats, the data and how they came up with the conclusion. I would have no problem supporting something that means helping the mule deer, even if it's archery draw.

But going for the archery draw above everything other solution is ludicrous . But when they refuse to table the stats and their facts, I'm not going to accept it.

This isn't just because it's a bowhunting issue,this is a hunting issue. If this was about rifles , I would be just as passionate.

Ah, yes, but what you said before was you want to do everything but archery draw, you agree there's a problem, just can't see you're part of it. Need to put archery on draw to see what the numbers really are.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by KCL

Ah, yes, but what you said before was you want to do everything but archery draw, you agree there's a problem, just can't see you're part of it. Need to put archery on draw to see what the numbers really are.

I forgot to add, I don't think we need to eliminate landowner tags either nor remove doe tags.

The best example of what we are talking about is the grizzly. They closed the season , with info they didn't share . Then they did a studys , to justify it, again no numbers.

Guilty until proven innocent , isn't kcl or jryley?

Don't you want the info, to make a rational, educated decision? Or should we trust and believe without questioning srds actions ever?

If guys say no , you have blind faith, which I don't believe in especially with the government.but if you say you would want the info, then we are on the same page.

[eggo]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Just cause you got two different ip addresses with two different emails, at two different locations ,doesn't make you smart, your not the first or last to do it. And it is hard to prove ,but a 3 year old account that only is intensely active during anti bowhunting discussions are active....so obvious....that's why you think your man enough...lol....

Go away nobody will take you seriously any more if you make crap up then cant back it up get off AO

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by KCL

Here's what's needed:
-reduce outfitter allocations to 5%
-eliminate landowner tags
-eliminate doe tags or drastically reduce
-put bow hunting on draw to monitor harvests
-put in mandatory harvest surveys
-have a faster reaction time to harsh winters and other problems that drastically affect herd numbers

I am an outfitter, bowhunter, landowner and rifle hunter. I like to think before all of those I am a conservationist. My favorite part of hunting is sitting around the campfire or cabin table and telling hunting stories, I want to do that with my boys who are 4 and 6 right now. Hope I get to.

X2...... And if you don't think the bow hunters are making a dent in the mule deer population take a drive up to 526 or 359,358,357 from Aug 25-Sept 16. After all the shows aired on Wild TV about the peace our areas were flooded with bow hunters. 357 has under 50 antlered mule deer tags this year and I could have found you 250 hunters per night between those dates in any one of those zones. Nobody knows what they were killing and that is also part of the problem, at least on draw we would know the maximum amount possible.

[curtisb]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

X2...... And if you don't think the bow hunters are making a dent in the mule deer population take a drive up to 526 or 359,358,357 from Aug 25-Sept 16. After all the shows aired on Wild TV about the peace our areas were flooded with bow hunters. 357 has under 50 antlered mule deer tags this year and I could have found you 250 hunters per night between those dates in any one of those zones. Nobody knows what they were killing and that is also part of the problem, at least on draw we would know the maximum amount possible.

Perfect example... arguement of one stance vs. the other.

Bowhunters don't kill the deer, guys who would have, or normally hunt with guns buy bows, start hunting with bows - and kill a small amount of deer in areas that gun hunters usually get their pick of the herd, or are used to being able to do so. If you could find the 250 hunters between the 3 zones, figure out there harvest I think you would find it'd be next to nill. (might even be an understatement.) The harvest would have been, or would be the same either way.

Those hunts you speak of on wild TV paint a pretty false picture, all these guys buying bows, all 250 of them whom you claim to see in your zones up there are not just crawling out into farmer Joe's field and deflating a mulie. It's not as easy as take 30 out of 31 to get a piece of film for a show.

Pretty easy for SRD to collect the data also, other than using a draw allocation as a "maximum" guideline.

For example is a MANDATORY timeline for applying for draw - yes. Hunter's don't forget to do this... or they don't get drawn, and lose all priority. Simple.
How about a simple idea to monitor harvest accurately... keep it simple. EI. If a hunter harvests a deer, moose, elk, or whatever the case may be - he or she simply has 15 days after the close of the season to present the licence for the species and sex (a set of nuts, udder) - whatever the case may be. If he or she doesn't do this... they are then not entitled to hunt the next year. Simple.

A couple extra salaries and a computer or 2, they could easily acheive this. Sh*t, they spent an unpublished amount on a totally 100% cull of mulies, you'd think something that makes sense could be done, within reason of course.

I've upped my amount of stupidness, after eggo's last 4 or so posts - I might be even 17 or 19% stupider for reading this thread.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by curtisb

Perfect example... arguement of one stance vs. the other.

Bowhunters don't kill the deer, guys who would have, or normally hunt with guns buy bows, start hunting with bows - and kill a small amount of deer in areas that gun hunters usually get their pick of the herd, or are used to being able to do so. If you could find the 250 hunters between the 3 zones, figure out there harvest I think you would find it'd be next to nill. (might even be an understatement.) The harvest would have been, or would be the same either way.

Those hunts you speak of on wild TV paint a pretty false picture, all these guys buying bows, all 250 of them whom you claim to see in your zones up there are not just crawling out into farmer Joe's field and deflating a mulie. It's not as easy as take 30 out of 31 to get a piece of film for a show.

Pretty easy for SRD to collect the data also, other than using a draw allocation as a "maximum" guideline.

For example is a MANDATORY timeline for applying for draw - yes. Hunter's don't forget to do this... or they don't get drawn, and lose all priority. Simple.
How about a simple idea to monitor harvest accurately... keep it simple. EI. If a hunter harvests a deer, moose, elk, or whatever the case may be - he or she simply has 15 days after the close of the season to present the licence for the species and sex (a set of nuts, udder) - whatever the case may be. If he or she doesn't do this... they are then not entitled to hunt the next year. Simple.

A couple extra salaries and a computer or 2, they could easily acheive this. Sh*t, they spent an unpublished amount on a totally 100% cull of mulies, you'd think something that makes sense could be done, within reason of course.

I've upped my amount of stupidness, after eggo's last 4 or so posts - I might be even 17 or 19% stupider for reading this thread.

So why would they even admit killing anything ? Just pretend they didn't and do it again next year.

I would like to see moose go on draw for bowhunters as well. Make it so you can only apply for one tag or the other ( rifle or bow ) and make the seasons the full length. Any true bow hunter would only ever apply for an archery tag and rifle hunters would likely do the same. Most bow hunters should be able to get a tag every year anyway. Mule deer or Moose would work great this way.

[eggo]

Originally Posted by curtisb

Perfect example... arguement of one stance vs. the other.

Bowhunters don't kill the deer, guys who would have, or normally hunt with guns buy bows, start hunting with bows - and kill a small amount of deer in areas that gun hunters usually get their pick of the herd, or are used to being able to do so. If you could find the 250 hunters between the 3 zones, figure out there harvest I think you would find it'd be next to nill. (might even be an understatement.) The harvest would have been, or would be the same either way.

Those hunts you speak of on wild TV paint a pretty false picture, all these guys buying bows, all 250 of them whom you claim to see in your zones up there are not just crawling out into farmer Joe's field and deflating a mulie. It's not as easy as take 30 out of 31 to get a piece of film for a show.

Pretty easy for SRD to collect the data also, other than using a draw allocation as a "maximum" guideline.

For example is a MANDATORY timeline for applying for draw - yes. Hunter's don't forget to do this... or they don't get drawn, and lose all priority. Simple.
How about a simple idea to monitor harvest accurately... keep it simple. EI. If a hunter harvests a deer, moose, elk, or whatever the case may be - he or she simply has 15 days after the close of the season to present the licence for the species and sex (a set of nuts, udder) - whatever the case may be. If he or she doesn't do this... they are then not entitled to hunt the next year. Simple.

A couple extra salaries and a computer or 2, they could easily acheive this. Sh*t, they spent an unpublished amount on a totally 100% cull of mulies, you'd think something that makes sense could be done, within reason of course.

I've upped my amount of stupidness, after eggo's last 4 or so posts - I might be even 17 or 19% stupider for reading this thread.

I get called a liar, cheat and you hac
on me when I tell him to prove it?

[curtisb]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So why would they even admit killing anything ? Just pretend they didn't and do it again next year.

I would like to see moose go on draw for bowhunters as well. Make it so you can only apply for one tag or the other ( rifle or bow ) and make the seasons the full length. Any true bow hunter would only ever apply for an archery tag and rifle hunters would likely do the same. Most bow hunters should be able to get a tag every year anyway. Mule deer or Moose would work great this way.

Regardless what they did or didn't kill, or didn't admit (I don't know why anyone would hide it...) - I was just trying to establish that not many of them are killing anything. Not every Tom, Dick or Larry pick up a bow and go get a mulie buck. I consider myself a reasonably good bow hunter, and wouldn't even entertain the thought of driving from EDM area to Peace River on the weekend - just because it's an open season. The locals however have this advantage, but I still have my doubts many of them are killing much with the bow and arrow. I would have to burn 5 or 6 hundred bucks in diesel scouting, plan, permission, etc, etc. I make a decent buck and wouldn't even think about it.

Although most of the province is on archery draw for moose already...
I've often thought about the whole length season thing as well. Not totally against it; even in a draw type scenario could be a good thing, especially a few years down the road. It would most certainly come with a loss of opportunity to all, in the short, rather than long term - outfitters included. (province would let landowners find a way around it - for sure.)
It however certainly have it's benifits in terms conservation - for sure. Unquestionably success and harvest rates would be better, and much easier for the powers that be to project things - despite how much I think people hate that term, it has to play into things at the end of the day. Something they can't do now AT ALL. Not that it's all hunters, partially their own fault for lack of predation control.

[eggo]

Would the Srd not have good stats in the Cwd zones because of the head submission?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by eggo

Would the Srd not have good stats in the Cwd zones because of the head submission?

nope.......