Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Hunting Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #241  
Old 10-21-2013, 08:50 AM
Lefty-Canuck's Avatar
Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Look behind you :)
Posts: 27,774
Default

Agree...FCE

LC
  #242  
Old 10-21-2013, 08:57 AM
adaras adaras is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 251
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j m View Post
Before the Spanish brought the horse to NA, I doubt there was a very high success rate going after buffalo with a bow and lance on foot. The rifle also made huge difference. Both whites and natives hunted them with no restrictions and the population crashed. I can actually say I saw a buffalo on the way home from work last week so they weren't exterminated.

So have we learned from the past what unregulated hunting can do to game populations or should we go down that road again?

When the hunter is hunting with respect to the animal that harvest and hunt according to his need for food I don't think that regulations needed, but when the hunter is just doing it for hobby or to make numbers
Then it changes the rules, but this is my opinion only, plus in a hypothetic scenario if hunting is not allowed during the rut how many animals will be harvested? Right now the majority of hunters legal or not are using lures, calls, scents, decoys, scopes....etc, with only iron sights and no lures, how many actual hunters will be
__________________
Ο ξειν αγγελειν Λακεδαιμονιοις οτι τηδε κειμεθα τις κεινων ρημασι πειθομενοι
  #243  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:00 AM
j m's Avatar
j m j m is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post
There sure was, they use to drive them off cliffs. They also only hunted them for meat, not like the white man who just wanted the fur.
It is true that buffalo we taken that way but there are only so many buffalo jumps. It was a feast or famine existence that improved immensely with the introduction of the horse. The whites didn't only hunt for fur, they also hunted to cut off the food supply.

Last edited by j m; 10-21-2013 at 09:10 AM.
  #244  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:02 AM
roper1 roper1 is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 5,573
Default Status Hunting Rights

IMO we need to remember some of these treaties are 135 yrs old. Clinton & Mulroney signed an agreement 15 yrs ago and it is updated regularly. The treaties were signed by our great, great grandparents generation. I hope my great,great grandchildren are not bound by a contract I make today that is workable today but unlikely to be relevant 135 yrs from now
  #245  
Old 10-21-2013, 04:23 PM
Red Bullets's Avatar
Red Bullets Red Bullets is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roper1 View Post
IMO we need to remember some of these treaties are 135 yrs old. Clinton & Mulroney signed an agreement 15 yrs ago and it is updated regularly. The treaties were signed by our great, great grandparents generation. I hope my great,great grandchildren are not bound by a contract I make today that is workable today but unlikely to be relevant 135 yrs from now
Sorry, not trying to derail the thread. Just had to reply to this post.

Generational? Careful what contracts you sign.
We have a lease road and wellsite on family land that my grandfather gave Esso Resources a 99 year lease to back in the 1940's. That lease road and wellsite has effected my brother and other land owners now, 60+ years later. Even though the wellsites have since been abandoned. The land was also contaminated with salt water and 60+ years later still requires reclamation. The wells dried up and the oil companies moved on to greener pastures and doing the same all over again somewhere else to someone else. I suspect my families land will still need reclamation for many decades to come. Long after I am gone too.

So contracts or treaties do effect may generations to come. My grandfathers contract will continue to effect many future generations.



I have heard there are morgages in Europe that are generational. Has anyone else heard of generational morgages overseas?

Last edited by Red Bullets; 10-21-2013 at 04:32 PM.
  #246  
Old 10-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Junglefisher's Avatar
Junglefisher Junglefisher is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Edson
Posts: 676
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bullets View Post


I have heard there are morgages in Europe that are generational. Has anyone else heard of generational morgages overseas?
I've heard of people in Australia taking 40 or 50 year mortgages that they will never pay off in their lifetime. Idea being when they die, the place is sold to pay it off.
__________________
Cheers,
Craig
  #247  
Old 10-21-2013, 05:19 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Camrose
Posts: 44,825
Default

Quote:
I have no problem with treaty harvest for meat, never have, but trophy hunting, come on. In Alaska subsistence hunters must immediately cut all horned game antlers through the main beams and break the skull plates.
An excellent solution, if the animal was taken under the guise of subsistence hunting, then it should make no difference to the person that killed it, if the antlers/horns are not eligible to be officially scored.
__________________
Only accurate guns are interesting.
  #248  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:24 PM
Pony Pony is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 71
Default

No one has the right to abuse our natural resources, it's unfortunate there are some bad ones in all our cultures white or Native
  #249  
Old 10-21-2013, 09:53 PM
Dacotensis's Avatar
Dacotensis Dacotensis is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Sherwood Forest
Posts: 5,176
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony View Post
No one has the right to abuse our natural resources, it's unfortunate there are some bad ones in all our cultures white or Native
I'm not sure "white" is a culture.
But I get what you are saying.
Not even sure that native is a culture.

I remember a Video of a truck full of elk, right around INM.
Eventually the vid was pulled from u tube or face book.
Maybe it was just a picture. Not a vid.

I'm sure what we saw was not indicative of a culture regardless of race.
__________________
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
Ronald Reagan

Either get busy living, or get busy dying!
  #250  
Old 10-21-2013, 10:25 PM
bchap22 bchap22 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 468
Default

I've been reading along and don't really want to get into this discussion but i found this on another thread here on the AO hunting forum.

we came across a native hunting camp, stopped in they know how to hunt 50 or 60 campers two 53 ft refer vans, they told us in the last month they had shot 365 elk , 280 moose, 480 deer, when we pulled out the cameras to take pics they got real upset asked us to leave in no uncertain terms, and had two pickups follow us for 10 kms

If that sustenance hunting hunting then all i have to say is wow!!!
  #251  
Old 10-22-2013, 01:25 AM
SmokinJoe SmokinJoe is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchap22 View Post
I've been reading along and don't really want to get into this discussion but i found this on another thread here on the AO hunting forum.

we came across a native hunting camp, stopped in they know how to hunt 50 or 60 campers two 53 ft refer vans, they told us in the last month they had shot 365 elk , 280 moose, 480 deer, when we pulled out the cameras to take pics they got real upset asked us to leave in no uncertain terms, and had two pickups follow us for 10 kms

If that sustenance hunting hunting then all i have to say is wow!!!
I saw a camp just like this one, devastating, but this one I saw had 2000 men, full kitchen, bathroom, they drove big diesel trucks, and cut down long stretches of trees, and dug big holes in the earth, they threw their garbage all over the place, then they took water from the surface and pushed it down holes where we will never see it again, said it was unfit for human consumption anyway, but would not say how it became that way. The animals there had to move into unfamiliar area, and lots of them did not make it.

I guess I have been away for a while, busy guiding hunts, I read AO every now and then on shower/fuel runs, but f150s and 300s? Most of my cuzzins drive chevies and shoot old 30-30s, but some guys think I should hunt the old ways, ok give me a large territory where there's no roads in this province where I can migrate to good hunting and back to Warmer winters, I will ride my horse around and use a bow, and probably kill more than I do now, because I will need more.

I have been buying tags and applying for draws for these special sheep and elk places, not sure why anymore when you read comments like the one above, if game Populations are that far down we as the Indians should go to the government and have them close more tags to ensure our future generations will have place to hunt. What people don't understand is that as Indians we have the right to hunt, non Indian people have a privilege to hunt,

If we get rid of treaties we will get rid of racism? I doubt that.

If there are some changes that need to be made, it will be made internally, we will impose them on ourselves, but be prepared we will impose the rest of the changes on the privileged hunters,
  #252  
Old 10-22-2013, 02:15 AM
waterhawk waterhawk is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 730
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchap22 View Post
I've been reading along and don't really want to get into this discussion but i found this on another thread here on the AO hunting forum.

we came across a native hunting camp, stopped in they know how to hunt 50 or 60 campers two 53 ft refer vans, they told us in the last month they had shot 365 elk , 280 moose, 480 deer, when we pulled out the cameras to take pics they got real upset asked us to leave in no uncertain terms, and had two pickups follow us for 10 kms

If that sustenance hunting hunting then all i have to say is wow!!!
So you say you drove into a large native hunting camp and they bragged to you about killing huge numbers of elk, moose and deer but got upset when you got out your cameras. I call BS. Natives are well aware of how non natives feel about them exercising their treaty hunting rights. I do not believe any group of native hunters would brag to you about the large number of animals they had killed. I have been hearing about native hunters filling refer vans for years. When pressed for particulars, however, nobody ever has any real details as to where the native hunters were from, where they were hunting or pictures.
  #253  
Old 10-22-2013, 05:39 AM
Alberta Bigbore's Avatar
Alberta Bigbore Alberta Bigbore is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 16,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhawk View Post
So you say you drove into a large native hunting camp and they bragged to you about killing huge numbers of elk, moose and deer but got upset when you got out your cameras. I call BS. Natives are well aware of how non natives feel about them exercising their treaty hunting rights. I do not believe any group of native hunters would brag to you about the large number of animals they had killed. I have been hearing about native hunters filling refer vans for years. When pressed for particulars, however, nobody ever has any real details as to where the native hunters were from, where they were hunting or pictures.
I think he meant he read that on another thread. Just didnt quote it




Even still... posts with " they had kill such and such many moose elk and deer..." and this many men.. " are very unlikely. To remember the exact numbers? Come on. Lol if that were the case.. i suppose they remember the make and model plus colors on the rigs pulling those reefers. Lol
__________________
Alberta Bigbore
  #254  
Old 10-22-2013, 05:52 AM
wally338's Avatar
wally338 wally338 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southern sask.
Posts: 1,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bchap22 View Post
I've been reading along and don't really want to get into this discussion but i found this on another thread here on the AO hunting forum.

we came across a native hunting camp, stopped in they know how to hunt 50 or 60 campers two 53 ft refer vans, they told us in the last month they had shot 365 elk , 280 moose, 480 deer, when we pulled out the cameras to take pics they got real upset asked us to leave in no uncertain terms, and had two pickups follow us for 10 kms

If that sustenance hunting hunting then all i have to say is wow!!!
And you believe everything that you see online!? Wow
  #255  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:24 AM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is offline
Gone Hunting
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhawk View Post
So you say you drove into a large native hunting camp and they bragged to you about killing huge numbers of elk, moose and deer but got upset when you got out your cameras. I call BS. Natives are well aware of how non natives feel about them exercising their treaty hunting rights. I do not believe any group of native hunters would brag to you about the large number of animals they had killed. I have been hearing about native hunters filling refer vans for years. When pressed for particulars, however, nobody ever has any real details as to where the native hunters were from, where they were hunting or pictures.
Sounds pretty implausible to me.
I have seen a lot of hunting camps, both first nations and others.
I have never seen any camp with more then a dozen hunters, including the outfitters camps I've seen and/or worked out of.

I've heard some big numbers thrown about regarding first nations hunts, but never from first nations people. And the reports I've heard seem to never be first hand reports. They are always "I heard from a friend that his friends neighbor's second cousin once remover, , , , ext."
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
  #256  
Old 10-22-2013, 06:58 AM
brownbomber's Avatar
brownbomber brownbomber is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: flms
Posts: 3,911
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
Sounds pretty implausible to me.
I have seen a lot of hunting camps, both first nations and others.
I have never seen any camp with more then a dozen hunters, including the outfitters camps I've seen and/or worked out of.

I've heard some big numbers thrown about regarding first nations hunts, but never from first nations people. And the reports I've heard seem to never be first hand reports. They are always "I heard from a friend that his friends neighbor's second cousin once remover, , , , ext."
And then they cut a hole in the wall so the horses could drink out of the toilet.
Urban/rural myth nothing more.
__________________
the days we are at our best we can play with anybody, problem is those days are getting farther and farther apart
  #257  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:12 AM
u_cant_rope_the_wind u_cant_rope_the_wind is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: grew up in Alberta moved to SK, sure miss Alberta
Posts: 2,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggameassassin View Post
I've done much research on the topic and I've found you are allowed within alberta, Manitoba , and Saskatchewan. Other than that every other province has different rules, certain provinces have certain areas you may hunt if your tribe is from that province, like bc. Other than that I do not know the other provinces rules or regulations on aboriginal harvest of wild game.
in the Saskatchewan hunters and trappers guide(regulations book) it reads

It is a violation to
aid or assist people who are exercising their Aboriginal hunting rights unless you possess Aboriginal rights or a permit to assist
so you SOL if you want to take her hunting in this province unless you get a permit to assist her
  #258  
Old 10-22-2013, 07:53 AM
walking buffalo's Avatar
walking buffalo walking buffalo is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 10,207
Default

Lots of people just making things up for the sake of posturing....



Over 120,000 Treaty card holders in Alberta and some think that there are only 2-3000 hunters among them.... Lets also forget about Non-Albertan treaty holders that come here to hunt....

Native people are the fastest growing segment of Canadian society.... 2-3000 hunters and dropping? Of the several Nations that I work with in Southern Alberta they all average about 15% active hunters in the populace, and the percentage is rising as many of the young men are getting caught up in the internet/tv hunting propaganda and want to participate too.


Historically aboriginal harvest could have resulted in the whole animal being used, or for just some of the meat, or sometimes just for the hide. Whatever was needed at the time and could be utilized. Very often a buffalo jump could produce many more dead buffalo than what could be processed before they rotted. Not passing judgement here, this is simply how it was....


The Plains Bison took much longer than just one year to extirpate from Alberta. Woods Bison were never hunted out. BTW, most of the killing was done by Metis and Natives.


One of these days someone will actually have the balls to take a picture of these often seen reefer filling hunts.
  #259  
Old 10-22-2013, 08:46 AM
Alberta Bigbore's Avatar
Alberta Bigbore Alberta Bigbore is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 16,957
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by u_cant_rope_the_wind View Post
in the Saskatchewan hunters and trappers guide(regulations book) it reads

It is a violation to
aid or assist people who are exercising their Aboriginal hunting rights unless you possess Aboriginal rights or a permit to assist
so you SOL if you want to take her hunting in this province unless you get a permit to assist her
In Saskatchewan.....
__________________
Alberta Bigbore
  #260  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:52 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe View Post
I saw a camp just like this one, devastating, but this one I saw had 2000 men, full kitchen, bathroom, they drove big diesel trucks, and cut down long stretches of trees, and dug big holes in the earth, they threw their garbage all over the place, then they took water from the surface and pushed it down holes where we will never see it again, said it was unfit for human consumption anyway, but would not say how it became that way. The animals there had to move into unfamiliar area, and lots of them did not make it.

I guess I have been away for a while, busy guiding hunts, I read AO every now and then on shower/fuel runs, but f150s and 300s? Most of my cuzzins drive chevies and shoot old 30-30s, but some guys think I should hunt the old ways, ok give me a large territory where there's no roads in this province where I can migrate to good hunting and back to Warmer winters, I will ride my horse around and use a bow, and probably kill more than I do now, because I will need more.

I have been buying tags and applying for draws for these special sheep and elk places, not sure why anymore when you read comments like the one above, if game Populations are that far down we as the Indians should go to the government and have them close more tags to ensure our future generations will have place to hunt. What people don't understand is that as Indians we have the right to hunt, non Indian people have a privilege to hunt,

If we get rid of treaties we will get rid of racism? I doubt that.

If there are some changes that need to be made, it will be made internally, we will impose them on ourselves, but be prepared we will impose the rest of the changes on the privileged hunters,

This is quite an amusing post.

Why is it you have no problems reading AO on a SMART PHONE or COMPUTER while on your FUEL AND HOT SHOWER run?

YOU are no more of a Canadian than anyone else born on Canadian soil.

By your own admission you are as guilty riding the oil train as anyone else here.

The only reason you have RIGHTS to hunting that other Canadians don't have is from an outdated treaty over a century old. I agree with sustenance hunting for all Canadians, so long as the antlers or horns are destroyed and the harvest is registered.

As for your threat of trying to take away hunting privledges, maybe we should take away the rights to all tax funded amenities to those who don't pay taxes?

As for those who think that the hunting camps are a myth, YOUR WRONG. I have seen it first hand, west of Flatbush in the Athabasca river valley before the days of cell phones with cameras. I'm not sure if the nay sayers are naive of in denial but either way I don't care because I know for FACT they are wrong.

Trophy hunting is a game that aboriginal people have the unlimited advantage on, any weapon, any time, any amount, that's where the treaty laws are outdated. Animals are taken under the guise of sustenance but used as trophy. Also it's easy to abuse the sustenance hunting by selling wild game. Mandatory registration of harvest and destruction of scorable trophy attributes such as antlers, horns, skulls, etc would greatly help eliminate any possibility of abuse.
  #261  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:36 PM
waterhawk waterhawk is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 730
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
This is quite an amusing post.

Why is it you have no problems reading AO on a SMART PHONE or COMPUTER while on your FUEL AND HOT SHOWER run?

YOU are no more of a Canadian than anyone else born on Canadian soil.

By your own admission you are as guilty riding the oil train as anyone else here.

The only reason you have RIGHTS to hunting that other Canadians don't have is from an outdated treaty over a century old. I agree with sustenance hunting for all Canadians, so long as the antlers or horns are destroyed and the harvest is registered.

As for your threat of trying to take away hunting privledges, maybe we should take away the rights to all tax funded amenities to those who don't pay taxes?

As for those who think that the hunting camps are a myth, YOUR WRONG. I have seen it first hand, west of Flatbush in the Athabasca river valley before the days of cell phones with cameras. I'm not sure if the nay sayers are naive of in denial but either way I don't care because I know for FACT they are wrong.

Trophy hunting is a game that aboriginal people have the unlimited advantage on, any weapon, any time, any amount, that's where the treaty laws are outdated. Animals are taken under the guise of sustenance but used as trophy. Also it's easy to abuse the sustenance hunting by selling wild game. Mandatory registration of harvest and destruction of scorable trophy attributes such as antlers, horns, skulls, etc would greatly help eliminate any possibility of abuse.
Kurt 505: Are you saying the treaties should be revisited to negotiate the removal status Indian's hunting rights and limited tax free status? If so, what do you think would be fair for Canada to offer the Indians for giving up those rights?
  #262  
Old 10-22-2013, 03:55 PM
waterhawk waterhawk is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 730
Default

Kurt505: Below is a post I made on a thread the Jan of this year. I think it is relevant to the point you are trying to make:


In post #33 Savage Shooter stated:

"Ah yes, that makes sense. Because natives certainly had rifles before the white man came.

No, wait. They hadn't discovered gun powder. In fact, they hadn't even discovered the bronze age or any metallurgy. They hadn't even invented the wheel. Their tools were made of stone or bone... They had fire, at least. Not more than 1 rung above a cave man. That's a fact.

So...why do they get to use a rifle in bow hunting season or any season? It's hardly some ancient tradition. If they want to live the way they lived before the white man came, they should give up the wonders that the white man brought with him and actually live the way they did before the white man came.

Otherwise, they can buy tags like the rest of us and, sure, use a rifle in rifle season. Just my opinion"

Status Indians got special hunting and fishing rights when they entered into treaties with the Crown. In Treaty Six the Indians bargained away the right to 121,000 square miles, including the minerals, oil and gas, for very little. That little included the right to hunt and fish. The Indians would never had agreed to the Treaty if it had not stated that they could continue to hunt and fish. Savage Shooter, you obviously want to back and renegotiate the treaties. What portion of the 121,000 sqaure miles of land do you suggest be offered back to the Treaty Six Indians in exchange for their special right to hunt and fish.
  #263  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:01 PM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bazeau County East side
Posts: 4,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhawk View Post
Kurt505: Below is a post I made on a thread the Jan of this year. I think it is relevant to the point you are trying to make:


In post #33 Savage Shooter stated:

"Ah yes, that makes sense. Because natives certainly had rifles before the white man came.

No, wait. They hadn't discovered gun powder. In fact, they hadn't even discovered the bronze age or any metallurgy. They hadn't even invented the wheel. Their tools were made of stone or bone... They had fire, at least. Not more than 1 rung above a cave man. That's a fact.

So...why do they get to use a rifle in bow hunting season or any season? It's hardly some ancient tradition. If they want to live the way they lived before the white man came, they should give up the wonders that the white man brought with him and actually live the way they did before the white man came.

Otherwise, they can buy tags like the rest of us and, sure, use a rifle in rifle season. Just my opinion"

Status Indians got special hunting and fishing rights when they entered into treaties with the Crown. In Treaty Six the Indians bargained away the right to 121,000 square miles, including the minerals, oil and gas, for very little. That little included the right to hunt and fish. The Indians would never had agreed to the Treaty if it had not stated that they could continue to hunt and fish. Savage Shooter, you obviously want to back and renegotiate the treaties. What portion of the 121,000 sqaure miles of land do you suggest be offered back to the Treaty Six Indians in exchange for their special right to hunt and fish.
I think this pretty much sums it up.
  #264  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:11 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhawk View Post
Kurt 505: Are you saying the treaties should be revisited to negotiate the removal status Indian's hunting rights and limited tax free status? If so, what do you think would be fair for Canada to offer the Indians for giving up those rights?
Would I like them revisited? You bet!

Would I like to see their hunting rights taken away? Not under new treaty agreement. Only if abuse is found. I would like to see mandatory destruction of any trophy attributes, and mandatory harvest registration of all animals taken under all sustenance harvest rights. Also I would like to see an application for sustenance right where by it is shown the need to hunt for sustenance before a license is granted.

My suggestion to limit tax funded amenities and programs to those who pay taxes was in response to the suggestion that treaty Indians lobby to take away hunting privileges to non Indian Canadians. Why is there a need in today's society for government welfare, plus tax exemption, plus unlimited hunting rights, plus subsidized housing, et al. I am no better nor am I any more capable than any treaty Indian, yet I survive. I have a roof over my head, cloths on my back, and food on my table. I am born and bred Canadian, so is my father, so is my grand father, so are my sons. We have and will all work and pay taxes and survive without special privileges.

There is no reason, at least no sensible reason for the treaty agreements not to be updated. Are Indians incapable of survival without government funding or unlimited access to wild game in today's society?

I DON'T THINK SO, others may not agree.
  #265  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:16 PM
waterhawk waterhawk is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 730
Default

Kurt505: I am off for a beer with a friend. Debate with you later.
  #266  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:18 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Communist state
Posts: 13,245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterhawk View Post
Kurt505: I am off for a beer with a friend. Debate with you later.
Sounds good, enjoy your evening!
  #267  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:25 PM
Dan Boone Dan Boone is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Red Deer
Posts: 555
Default

So, since natives have the right to hunt and the right to provide for theyre families.
Cant all parties involved in this matter come together to reach a new agreement ?
Why do natives earning $150,000 per year need hunting privileges to provide for families ?

Can we not set a limit on income to avoid some peoples hunting rights ?

I completely understand when natives or white people must hunt to feed families , but am left in aww at some very well off natives killing excess animals just because a 200 year old treaty says they can !
  #268  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:26 PM
Burglecut83 Burglecut83 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,003
Default

wanna have the cake and eat it too... man oh man dont get me started
  #269  
Old 10-22-2013, 04:33 PM
Pekan Pekan is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Calgary
Posts: 779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by recce43 View Post
techincally the true natives came across from euroasia

Neolithic" is not generally used to describe indigenous cultures in the Americas, see Archaeology of the Americas.

The usual theory of the settlement of the Americas is that earliest ancestors of the peoples of the Americas came from Eurasia over a land bridge which connected the two continents across what is now the Bering Strait during a period of glaciation, when the sea water level was lower. The number and nature of these migrations is uncertain but the land bridge is believed to have existed only until about 12,000 years ago, when the land bridge was flooded.[13][14][15]

Three major migrations occurred, as traced by linguistic and genetic data; the early Paleoamericans soon spread throughout the Americas, diversifying into many hundreds of culturally distinct nations and tribes.[16][17] By 8000 BCE the North American climate was very similar to today's.[18]

The Clovis culture, a megafauna hunting culture of about 11,000 B.P., ranged over much of North America and also appeared in South America has been identified by the distinctive Clovis point. Dating of Clovis materials has been by association with animal bones and by the use of carbon dating methods.

Numerous Paleoindian cultures occupied North America. According to their oral histories they have been living on this continent since their genesis, described by a wide range of traditional creation stories. However, genetic and linguistic data connect the indigenous people of this continent with ancient northeast Asians.


A Folsom point for a spear.The Folsom Tradition was characterized by use of Folsom points as projectile tips, and data from kill sites, where slaughter and butchering of bison took place. Folsom tools were left behind between 9000 BCE and 8000 BCE.[19]

Na-Dené-speaking people's entered North America starting around 8000 BCE, reaching the Pacific Northwest by 5000 BCE,[20] and from there migrating along the Pacific Coast and into the interior. It is believed that their ancestors comprised a separate migration into North America, later than the first Paleo-Indians. They migrated into Alaska and northern Canada, south along the Pacific Coast, into the interior of Canada, and south to the Great Plains and the American Southwest. They were the earliest ancestors of the Athabascan- speaking peoples, including the present-day and historical Navajo and Apache.
I just went to this thread. When I clicked on the title, `status natives` I clicked against my better judgement! Meaning that this whole status native, treaty rights topic is just soooooo fraught. And as we all do, I hold my own opinions on this matter. I`m white, 1st gen Canadian, and am generally on the side of treaty honoring.

Anyway, I had to comment on this anthropological post. Because `science`has been used for political reasons and to justify certain cultural beliefs since time began. But it doesn`t make it true!

This whole business of attempting to prove when exactly native people came to North America, IMO it has a certain agenda of eroding the native claim to the land as a homeland. No one knows when any group did what thousands of years ago!
I recently read a book called In the wake of the Jamon. In it the author recounts HIS KAYAK trip from JAPAN to ALASKA. He did this two year trip to prove that the Jamon people, who occupied Japan over 20,000 to 40,000 years ago, didn`t need a land bridge to get to America. This land bridge `fact`is a political tool, and nothing more.

IN my opinion.
  #270  
Old 10-22-2013, 05:21 PM
Red Bullets's Avatar
Red Bullets Red Bullets is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: central Alberta
Posts: 12,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekan View Post
No one knows when any group did what thousands of years ago!

And probably sooner than a thousand years, a new group of people will come to Canada and will say to people that are 10 generations born here......" So what if you were born here. we are not giving you any consessions. We will take your land and do as we choose. You don't deserve any rights. Your written word is just scribble on paper. Can't even read your language."

(of course they won't say it in English...I translated.haha)
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.