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  #271  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:40 AM
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It depresses me to say this man, but you should be ashamed of this post. Pretty sickening to see a fellow outdoorsman state that
X2 greed...
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  #272  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:43 AM
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It depresses me to say this man, but you should be ashamed of this post. Pretty sickening to see a fellow outdoorsman state that
Lots of guys agree that premium tags should be increased.
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  #273  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:45 AM
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Lots of guys agree that premium tags should be increased.
Im not saying they shouldn't, but that kind of increase is sickening. I can tell you it wouldn't even be worth it to myself to throw that kind of money at anything hunting related....and just for a tag! Give me a break guys. What youre preaching is well below any sort of rational thinking or promoting a local heritage. Guys that can barely operate Velcro shoes sooner than later, wont make 90+ k per year in the patch fellas. So what will everyones opinion be when 80k per year salary is once again viewed as on the high end? I can promise you you wont have oodles set aside every year for hunting escapades.

Further more its obvious the sheep enthusiasts are promoting massive increases to special tags. Just because you guys are 'enthusiasts' towards a certain animal doesn't mean you should limit the guys that actually just want to try it once and never again. Youre no more important than the guys that will spend 3 days hunting his sheep tag. You sound entitled to me.
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  #274  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:47 AM
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Lots of guys agree that premium tags should be increased.
This idealism will be the death of our passion.....
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  #275  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:54 AM
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Im not saying they shouldn't, but that kind of increase is sickening. I can tell you it wouldn't even be worth it to myself to throw that kind of money at anything hunting related....and just for a tag! Give me a break guys. What youre preaching is well below any sort of rational thinking or promoting a local heritage. Guys that can barely operate Velcro shoes sooner than later, wont make 90+ k per year in the patch fellas. So what will everyones opinion be when 80k per year salary is once again viewed as on the high end? I can promise you you wont have oodles set aside every year for hunting escapades.
So at $80,000/year a guy cant afford $83/month for a $1000tag or $42/month for a $500tag???? Thats the issue, guys dont need to prioritize or care because they can put in for as many as they want and then throw the ones they want away because they invest nothing and the tags mean nothing to them.

And that is only premium hunts like the 438 TS, Suffield Antlered elk, Goat, Buffalo etc. It stops no one from hunting as there are very few of these tags offered and thousands of OTC tags that are still cheap and way higher odds of getting drawn odds tags guys can draw every few years. We're Not suggesting every tag be $1000!!!! But there is definitely a spot on some tags for an increase and them coveted tags need it. And the fact is in this day and age there are just going to be stuff guys can't afford, myself included!!
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  #276  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:58 AM
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So at $80,000/year a guy cant afford $83/month for a $1000tag or $42/month for a $500tag???? Thats the issue, guys dont need to prioritize or care because they can put in for as many as they want and then throw the ones they want away because they invest nothing and the tags mean nothing to them.

And that is only premium hunts like the 438 TS, Suffield Antlered elk, Goat, Buffalo etc. It stops no one from hunting as there are very few of these tags offered and thousands of OTC tags that are still cheap and way higher odds of getting drawn odds tags guys can draw every few years. We're Not suggesting every tag be $1000!!!! But there is definitely a spot on some tags for an increase and them coveted tags need it. And the fact is in this day and age there are just going to be stuff guys can't afford, myself included!!
Many families live paycheck to paycheck on 80 k per year bud. Do you have any formal schooling in econ or finance? Or kids for that matter with a stay at home wife? Or are you just another 22 year old with his GED making that kind of cake on the rigs? Finance everything right? You brought up payments.

You are naïve if you think specifying 'premium hunts' will not eventually have an effect on 'non premium' hunts. WTF does 'premium' hunt mean? Youre already conveying that 'your' hunts mean more than the guy going out for a mean doe in early November. You guys are ass backwards. It has nothing to do with resident draw issues and everything to do with non res and outfitter.
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  #277  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sledhead71 View Post
This idealism will be the death of our passion.....
Its been done many places and the passion is still as strong, guys just prioritize and save a bit instead of just paying $40 and putting in for every tag just because hell its only $40. Why do you think we have an 18% unpurchased rate. That is the biggest joke ive seen!!!
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  #278  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
Its been done many places and the passion is still as strong, guys just prioritize and save a bit instead of just paying $40 and putting in for every tag just because hell its only $40. Why do you think we have an 18% unpurchased rate. That is the biggest joke ive seen!!!
The 'unpurchased' stat is planned and utilized by SRD......you have such limited knowledge of how the science works man lol
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  #279  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:06 AM
MathewsZ7 MathewsZ7 is offline
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Originally Posted by wildside2014 View Post
You are naïve if you think specifying 'premium hunts' will not eventually have an effect on 'non premium' hunts. WTF does 'premium' hunt mean? Youre already conveying that 'your' hunts mean more than the guy going out for a mean doe in early November. You guys are ass backwards. It has nothing to do with resident draw issues and everything to do with non res and outfitter.
How many non res and outfitter tags affect the late 438 draw? How many affect the Bison draw? How many affect the Goat draw? How many affect 408 sheep? How many affect 437 sheep? How many affect 444/446 sheep? Please explain to me your figuring here because you really have me lost on how those are the problems!!!! Please show me where im ass backwards!!!

And yes a 438 rut sheep tag is a way bigger tag and with way more meaning than a meat doe tag!! And honestly guys thinking they are equal really have no understanding the type of tag they are dealing with!!! Its a very sad world that compares a bighorn sheep to a meat deer!!
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  #280  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bpk1982 View Post
This is not correct. You now must hold a Nfld drivers license to be in the system there. If you are not a resident of Nfld, you aren't legally allowed in the resident draw.
That's my understanding aswell. If I want to go back to nfld and hunt I must go through an outfitter, no other option.
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  #281  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wildside2014 View Post
It depresses me to say this man, but you should be ashamed of this post. Pretty sickening to see a fellow outdoorsman state that
Similar model they use in Wyoming which is a pretty poor state. A sheep tag is very expensive there same with their other premi tags. We're not talking anything but draw here and reducing wait times. Would I pay 1k+ for a tag at home nope I would hunt general seasons. But if you really want to cut draw times it will only come through a price increase or like walking buffalo says eliminate management for trophy animals and increase tags each yr. I don't want anyone not to have opportunity. As far as I'm concerned if someone is willing to pay huge $ for a premium tag more power to them as long as the $$ goes to srd. I am more than happy hunting general seasons.
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  #282  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by wildside2014 View Post
The 'unpurchased' stat is planned and utilized by SRD......you have such limited knowledge of how the science works man lol
So if ESRD plans for 100 purchased tag @ $36 and gives out 118 to compensate for those that dont purchase they plan to have $3600 invested. Then that year 22% dont purchase the now only have $2808 invested to use. Those extra guys just took $792 from conservation and whatever because they chose not to buy a tag. If you put out 100 tags every year with a mandatory purchase you now have $3600 every year to bank on. And in Alberta that $792 figure can be multiplied by huge values even if an extra 1-2% don't purchase!!!

Why are guys so scared to have to pay for tags applied for?? You applied so id presume if drawn you should have the plan on buying. So why not make that purchase mandatory with a set date to hand them back in if unable to use?? God guys are friggin cheap!!! Want it all but they want it all for nothing!! No wonder things are on such a down hill slide in Alberta!
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  #283  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
How many non res and outfitter tags affect the late 438 draw? How many affect the Bison draw? How many affect the Goat draw? How many affect 408 sheep? How many affect 437 sheep? How many affect 444/446 sheep? Please explain to me your figuring here because you really have me lost on how those are the problems!!!! Please show me where im ass backwards!!!

And yes a 438 rut sheep tag is a way bigger tag and with way more meaning than a meat doe tag!! And honestly guys thinking they are equal really have no understanding the type of tag they are dealing with!!! Its a very sad world that compares a bighorn sheep to a meat deer!!
And 98% of Sportsmen would likely agree with you.However it does not change the fact that your statement is only a personal opinion. It may be held by many but still only opinion. It is not written in any legal document that a Book Ram holds any greater public value than a whitetail doe.
The other fact many are choosing to ignore is that ALL wildlife is public property and while ESRD can limit access to maintain the public property, access must be equally available to all and not based on perceived value by
some who hold one animal in higher regard than another.
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  #284  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:35 AM
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And 98% of Sportsmen would likely agree with you.However it does not change the fact that your statement is only a personal opinion. It may be held by many but still only opinion. It is not written in any legal document that a Book Ram holds any greater public value than a whitetail doe.
The other fact many are choosing to ignore is that ALL wildlife is public property and while ESRD can limit access to maintain the public property, access must be equally available to all and not based on perceived value by
some who hold one animal in higher regard than another.
It is equally available to anyone. Anyone can purchase an over the counter bighorn sheep tag at $52 and hunt them every year!! But the 15 438 rut tags can be purchased at say $500 if drawn. So no one is discriminated against with sheep hunting but coveted tags are sought after due to their "special" nature and therefore should be treated as such as done in the whole rest of the world! There is a reason that 2200 OTC tags are sold each year and 3800 put in the draw for 438! Its a very special tag yet guys say it should be treated no different and hold no more value to them. Thats a joke!!
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  #285  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
It is equally available to anyone. Anyone can purchase an over the counter bighorn sheep tag at $52 and hunt them every year!! But the 15 438 rut tags can be purchased at say $500 if drawn. So no one is discriminated against with sheep hunting but coveted tags are sought after due to their "special" nature and therefore should be treated as such as done in the whole rest of the world! There is a reason that 2200 OTC tags are sold each year and 3800 put in the draw for 438! Its a very special tag yet guys say it should be treated no different and hold no more value to them. Thats a joke!!
I would say Ab is doing a great job with these "special" tags and treating them as "special" by making them available to anyone. Not just the I'm so great because I love hunting in a special way, that the commoners can't understand, crowd.
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  #286  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
Its been done many places and the passion is still as strong, guys just prioritize and save a bit instead of just paying $40 and putting in for every tag just because hell its only $40. Why do you think we have an 18% unpurchased rate. That is the biggest joke ive seen!!!
I'm sorry Mathews, but I kinda agree with sled head. At times throughout this thread you speak of throwing money at things like its nothing, and I don't believe it's fair to call someone cheap if they do not agree. I would truly hope there is a better solution to the current problem than simply throw more money at it.

I really agree with other when they speak of defining and enforcing residency.

However I do see a greater problem even within my circle of friends, and friends of friends which I do believe the OP is getting at when he states aunties and uncles putting in for draws.... I directly know guys that have within 3 years have put spouses and children through hunter training and PAL training simply to get them entered into the draw system. They ARE meat eaters not head hunters, however not once have I seen or heard of the spouses or children partaken in a hunt or even fired a weapon, yet they get put in the draw system every year... Now if I see it, most of us on here must also see it, or hear of it. How do we fix this, without throwing money at it? I ask this because I feel I shouldn't be penalized for a crime I do not and will not commit. My wife doesn't care to hunt or fire a firearm and I respect it, I will wait my turn for my own draw as is law. Same goes if my children wish not to hunt when they become of age. Simple.

I like the current system. I have used it for 13 years now. I use 999 and plan my hunts year after year with either a draw in my pocket or simply a general tag. I was born and raised a BC boy which I seen my grandfather go 25 years without ever receiving a LEH. Talk about bad luck, but the problem with a lottery system. I will also mention that Alberta is my home, she has be very good to me and my family, I pay my taxes and buy her products and feel I shouldn't be penalized or priced out of a passion I have for the outdoors.

Question?
Now I am a patch worker, as my name suggests I take in ALL seasons, hunt, fish, camp, quad, sleds you name it but at the end of the day there isnt a whole lotta cash laying around. But what about say a teacher, fixed income, crappy schedule enabling him or her to 1 week of the year to be able to plan for a hunt, under our current system, could happen. However under the changes you propose, would this be possible or are we taking away opportunity from them they deserve, or entitled too??

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  #287  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
Its been done many places and the passion is still as strong, guys just prioritize and save a bit instead of just paying $40 and putting in for every tag just because hell its only $40. Why do you think we have an 18% unpurchased rate. That is the biggest joke ive seen!!!
Thought you said in the other thread that the draw fee shouldn't be increased, but the Tag should? You sure seem to be flip flopping on this one.
People with your mentality and ideas on how it should be are going to be the death of hunting as we know it.

Huntin stuff said it best when he said just sit back on your chairs you anti hunters, we will do all the work and ruin it all on our own for you.
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  #288  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:47 AM
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I would say Ab is doing a great job with these "special" tags and treating them as "special" by making them available to anyone. Not just the I'm so great because I love hunting in a special way, that the commoners can't understand, crowd.
Thats why we have tags that are slowly becoming unavailable and that are becoming once in a lifetime tags. Every year priorities needed to get tags increases, will so forever until a change is made. So are you good putting in down the road for 20+ years to get tags because half the guys just put in for it because its cheap? Are you good with more and more tags being like 437 and if your not in it already you will never ever draw a tag? Yep Albertas draw system is awesome. Sure right now you can get a few tags every few years. That isnt going to last long. But that seems to be what many want. Guys say well move areas and apply for lower priority tags. Well just remember all of alberta tags were once low priority. The first moose tag I got in my zone I hunt too 4yrs. The one I got this year took 11. And guys are fooling themselves if they think that wont happen where they hunt. Supply and demand will make the current draw system a once in a lifetime system. Without removing applicants that will never change!!
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  #289  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
It is equally available to anyone. Anyone can purchase an over the counter bighorn sheep tag at $52 and hunt them every year!! But the 15 438 rut tags can be purchased at say $500 if drawn. So no one is discriminated against with sheep hunting but coveted tags are sought after due to their "special" nature and therefore should be treated as such as done in the whole rest of the world! There is a reason that 2200 OTC tags are sold each year and 3800 put in the draw for 438! Its a very special tag yet guys say it should be treated no different and hold no more value to them. Thats a joke!!
Again your opinion is getting in the way. What is the difference between a Ram in WMU 438 and a Ram in WMU 404. Other than geographical location and some genetics they are the same. They are both public property.
In the past hunters found the rams to be a little bigger, the location to hunt better and various other reasons. Too much hunting pressure caused ESRD to establish a draw in order to control the resource. A draw in order to distribute
animals in a fashion that allowed fair and equal access to the public.

Please explain why your OPINION is right and mine is a JOKE.
You cant, they are personal value judgments.

If you can, make your case for why the 438 draw is different without using,
opinion or personal values.
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  #290  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
It is equally available to anyone. Anyone can purchase an over the counter bighorn sheep tag at $52 and hunt them every year!! But the 15 438 rut tags can be purchased at say $500 if drawn. So no one is discriminated against with sheep hunting but coveted tags are sought after due to their "special" nature and therefore should be treated as such as done in the whole rest of the world! There is a reason that 2200 OTC tags are sold each year and 3800 put in the draw for 438! Its a very special tag yet guys say it should be treated no different and hold no more value to them. Thats a joke!!
Please explain why you feel a sheep tag is special ?

Don't forget that near 120,000 licenses were sold in Alberta for 2013... Do the math, nothing special here.... Less than 2% of our community purchased the OTC tag if your numbers are correct.... And less than 3% applied for this special draw, again if your numbers are correct.
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  #291  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:56 AM
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seems to be a lot of confused thinking about fee increases and wait times.

Some here are saying that people can afford to pay a hefty increase. That it doesn't cut anyone out of the game. If that is so, then how will wait times decrease? The only result here will be less money in our wallets, period. (and you penalize the vast majority of hunters who were responsible and never part of the "problem" you cited in the first place)

The other possibility is that a fee increase WILL result in some people not being able to afford to play. Wait times would indeed be decreased, but only for the more affluent above among us. Hunting accessability decreased overall, never a good thing.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:59 AM
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Thought you said in the other thread that the draw fee shouldn't be increased, but the Tag should? You sure seem to be flip flopping on this one.
People with your mentality and ideas on how it should be are going to be the death of hunting as we know it.

Huntin stuff said it best when he said just sit back on your chairs you anti hunters, we will do all the work and ruin it all on our own for you.
Actually hunting as we know it is done already most guys just arent smart enough to see it!!

And the comment you quoted had absolutely nothing to due with increasing application costs. Right now I could draw a goat, moose, elk, one of the sheep sheep, buffalo, mule buck, mule doe, camp wainwright deer, turkey and a couple antelope tags. Would cost me may $40 - $50 to apply. I could then not hunt any of them and im out $40 -$50. Big deal. If im billed for each tag at even $the rate of $36 and $52 now charged im now out over $400 if I dont hunt them. Alot easier to sluff off the $50 than the $400 the tags would cost me at even todays costs with no increase. So maybe guys will think more and figure what tages they wish to commit to! Like I said your putting in for the tag why cant guys commit to paying for it?
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  #293  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
Its been done many places and the passion is still as strong, guys just prioritize and save a bit instead of just paying $40 and putting in for every tag just because hell its only $40. Why do you think we have an 18% unpurchased rate. That is the biggest joke ive seen!!!
This does not say Anything about automatically being billed for the tags. THIS says we have an 18% unpurchased rate BECAUSE its only 40$ to apply for everything. And it is a joke BECAUSE it is so cheap to apply.
You have said it over and over again,on multiple threads, that it is because of the cheap application process. If that's not what you mean don't write it down.
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  #294  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:12 AM
MathewsZ7 MathewsZ7 is offline
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Please explain why you feel a sheep tag is special ?

Don't forget that near 120,000 licenses were sold in Alberta for 2013... Do the math, nothing special here.... Less than 2% of our community purchased the OTC tag if your numbers are correct.... And less than 3% applied for this special draw, again if your numbers are correct.
LOL them comments right there show why Alberta is screwed. And yes the numbers are correct. Your welcome to look them up if you feel they arent.

How many Whitetail deer in the province compared to bighorn sheep?
How many Mule deer in the province compared to bighorn sheep?
How many Elk in the province compared to bighorn sheep?

How is accessiblity to deer, elk, antelope and moose compare to bighorn sheep?

What does it cost to go for a day deer hunting from say edmonton? Now what would that same day hunt cost for a hunt from edmonton to hunt bighorn sheep?

How much danger involved in say an average deer hunt? Now how much is involved in an average bighorn sheep?

How many guys can confidently judge a legal white tail or say 3pt elk? How many are confident to judge legality of a bighorn?

How many are confident to hunt a farmers field and drag a deer out or drive in and get it? How any are confident to climb a mountain and pack a sheep out?

How many guys are in shape enough to hunt deer? How many are in shape enough to attempt sheep hunting?

How much of the province are deer, elk and moose located? How much of the province are bighorns located?

There are a ton of variables that make sheep a special animal to hunt and that keep hunter numbers low.
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  #295  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
Thats why we have tags that are slowly becoming unavailable and that are becoming once in a lifetime tags. Every year priorities needed to get tags increases, will so forever until a change is made. So are you good putting in down the road for 20+ years to get tags because half the guys just put in for it because its cheap? Are you good with more and more tags being like 437 and if your not in it already you will never ever draw a tag? Yep Albertas draw system is awesome. Sure right now you can get a few tags every few years. That isnt going to last long. But that seems to be what many want. Guys say well move areas and apply for lower priority tags. Well just remember all of alberta tags were once low priority. The first moose tag I got in my zone I hunt too 4yrs. The one I got this year took 11. And guys are fooling themselves if they think that wont happen where they hunt. Supply and demand will make the current draw system a once in a lifetime system. Without removing applicants that will never change!!
There it is, isn't it. You want to remove opportunity for some to increase your opportunity. That is the definition of greedy. IF the population increases to the point that hunting becomes a one animal in a lifetime situation, making sure hunters are not allowed into the pool is not the solution.

The king of England wanted to make sure he had all the hunting opportunity
he needed.

We here in Canada made sure that access is equal for all.
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  #296  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:15 AM
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Increase in cost will not help anything other then generate more $ for Alberta. It will not change number of applicants to any level that will make a difference.

The only way this would benefit hunters is if the $ went straight to wildlife projects which it does not.

The mention of how some states charge for premium tags is not the same as there programs put this $ into wildlife management not general revenue like Alberta.

All an increase in Alberta will do is cost hunters more $ with no benefit.

If you want to throw $ away to general revenue just donate it to the Alberta govt they will gladly except it.

Big changes on where hunter generated funds go is needed before it is worth it for Alberta hunters to pay more.

Look into the big picture before you ask hunters to throw $ away. Find out where your $ goes
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  #297  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:17 AM
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This does not say Anything about automatically being billed for the tags. THIS says we have an 18% unpurchased rate BECAUSE its only 40$ to apply for everything. And it is a joke BECAUSE it is so cheap to apply.
You have said it over and over again,on multiple threads, that it is because of the cheap application process. If that's not what you mean don't write it down.
And if you were automatically billed for tags upon being drawn it would up the cost now wouldn't it. Now applying for that one tag when from just a $4 application into a $4 application plus a possible $36 or $52 tag purchase for. Kinda up the cost of applying now didn't it??
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  #298  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathewsZ7 View Post
And if you were automatically billed for tags upon being drawn it would up the cost now wouldn't it. Now applying for that one tag when from just a $4 application into a $4 application plus a possible $36 or $52 tag purchase for. Kinda up the cost of applying now didn't it??
Nope, not when I used 999. I all ready told you I agree with manditory tag purchases.
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  #299  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:23 AM
MathewsZ7 MathewsZ7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAC View Post
There it is, isn't it. You want to remove opportunity for some to increase your opportunity. That is the definition of greedy. IF the population increases to the point that hunting becomes a one animal in a lifetime situation, making sure hunters are not allowed into the pool is not the solution.

The king of England wanted to make sure he had all the hunting opportunity
he needed.

We here in Canada made sure that access is equal for all.
Its not greedy its just a simple fact if we dont want tags to be like some are now and never obtainable things have to change. And with that the only change is removing those that really dont care for the tags but apply just for the simple fact that it is cheap. So guys will put in for 50yrs or a lifetime say and never get a tag costing them $200+. But wouldnt pay $100/yr to apply for 10yrs and get a tag. Makes sense to me. Keeper cheap so everyone can afford the draw to watch themselves not hunt!!!! You rock Alberta!! Next thread!
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  #300  
Old 07-24-2014, 11:24 AM
Ken H Ken H is offline
 
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We for the most part live in Alberta, we are very lucky to have as much hunting opportunity as we have. Should we get drawn at least every 4 -5 years for every animal we want to hunt, I don't think so. With the population rising a person must accept the good old days of hunting every animal you is long over. And that likely means some tags out there will be a once or twice tag in your lifetime, make the best of it. There are plenty of over the counter tags a person can purchase and still harvest a great animal. I have heard many people being drawn for bison more than once, this should not happen. Same with 438 sheep. As for the system, we should be charged for every tag we draw, and also pay more than $4.00 per entry for the draws we apply for. $10.00 would be fair in my opinion. Does not break the bank but still makes you think about what you want to draw for.
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