BULLET TYPE FOR DOG's

[turkeygun]

Just want to hear what some of you guys are using for bullet type's on yote, to preserve as much as the hide as possible. My first Dog ever was in my opinion wrecked the hide anyway from a shot with my .223

I nailed one a week ago with my Remington .223, Hit him broadside at about 50 yards with a budget Winchester varmit factory load. 45 grains hollow point. The bullet hit him high just behind the shoulder and exploded up out the top of his back between the shoulders leaving a gaping hole about ten inches long and five wide... you could see down inside the chest cavity and it was just red foaming mush... I could freaking not believe the damage.. I managed to sew the hole closed after skinning but was ****ed. Might have to switch to FMJ's for hide harvest

What are you 22-250 guys using?

[TRAPPER92]

I shoot a ruger .204, exit hole is about the size of a loonie depends where you hit him. I've had a gut shot where the guts spilled out a large hole but I've also had shots where the bullet did not exit. I use a 40 grain bullet.

[Redfrog]

Stay away from the FMJ. Sounds like you need more range time. Bullet placement is at least as important as bullet type. FMJ are not designed for this purpose.

At 50 yards it should be DRT with no exit or maybe a small exit. Poor percentage shots, spray and pray and long shots will all help you destroy a pelt.

[TBark]

40 gr combine technology ballistic tip is what I shoot with my 22-250.
Won't know what damage it will do for a few days yet.

TBark

[762Russian]

Apparently Barnes' Varmint Grenades leave pelts intact; bullet shatters and doesn't exit.

Never tried them, couldn't comment, but that is what their advertisements say.

[220 Swift]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Stay away from the FMJ. Sounds like you need more range time. Bullet placement is at least as important as bullet type. FMJ are not designed for this purpose.

At 50 yards it should be DRT with no exit or maybe a small exit. Poor percentage shots, spray and pray and long shots will all help you destroy a pelt.

ok i have a question then for FMJ. I dont use them, personally but have some and trying to shoot them off. So what do you use the FMJS for in sporting uses. Close range, of 40 yard shots i am guessing for head shots and minimal damage to fur.

I have long open areas so i am choosing not to use them in the 220 swift

[nick0danger]

FMJ's are designed not to expand but to punch straight though. They are used by the military. That is why you can buy case lots of em for good prices. For me i only use them when at a range with a good backstop or when off plinking with buddies with a good back stop. Some people do use them on yotes as they do leave small holes, but where does the bullet go after (cause the bullet does not deform it can travel quite a ways) and it will not ensure a clean kill.

[Redfrog]

Nicko pretty much covered it. It will leave a small hole but will also continue on. It doesn't expand so shot placement is very critical.

I'm sure there is some one who will come on nd tell us how wonderful the FMJ is and how it kills to a thousand yards graveyard dead. Fact of the matter is if they did who would ever buy 'varmint' ammo at three times the price or more.

One more thing 220 Swift. If I hear that you were shooting FMJ through that swift, I'm phoning your mom. That is just wrong on so many levels.

Would you burn Fas Gas in a Formula one car?

[220 Swift]

as long as mom doesnt know i am safe
Fastest .224 drill around, with FMJ.
Makita and Dewalt cant touch it. i knowthe military use them and if i guess i was in the close quarters- bush head shots would be good with them for saving fur. as for in the wide open southern tundra expanding ones work, as reaching out is more common.

[220 Swift]

yes i suppose with military 223 with the .224 bullets are why they are so cheap.

i guess i missed that one today.

[wwbirds]

Not available in factory loads for 22-250 or 223 but I load them for both calibres and they rarely exit as designed to explode inside and maximize heart lung damage.

[trigger7mm]

I use 32 grain V-max in my .204, they work great. Shot placement is everything though.

[huntinfool]

wwbirds what kind of load are you making for your 22-250 with the hornady spsx I shoot those and always get a exit hole mind you it's only the size of a quarter. I load mine with 35 gr of reloader 15 how heavy of a load are you using?

[wwbirds]

I am running 24.2 grains of IMR 4895 for my 223 with a 50 grain spsx and 31 grain of IMR 4895 behind a 55 grain SPSX for my 22-250. haven't chrony it yet but the book says I am running 3450 fps in 22-250. Super accurate in 223 and 22-250 which is my first priority.
SPSX do not like speeds in excess of 3600 fps as air friction wil vaporize fragile jackets, I have also heard fast twist rates wil tear them up as well.

[huntinfool]

Thanks for the info I am going to try that powder out if I go any less than 35 gr with reloader 15 I'm no where near as accurate. Thanks again for the info

[turkeygun]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Stay away from the FMJ. Sounds like you need more range time. Bullet placement is at least as important as bullet type. FMJ are not designed for this purpose.

At 50 yards it should be DRT with no exit or maybe a small exit. Poor percentage shots, spray and pray and long shots will all help you destroy a pelt.

Did I say I used a FMJ? No. Did I spray and pray to ruin that hide? No.. Did my shot placement suck? I don't think a single shot at 50 yards broadside just behind the shoulder somewhat high is a bad shot... DRT? NOT sure what that means.

Not sure what kind of help your trying to forward here but it sounds kind of smart alecily to me.

I used a factory Winchester varmit cartridge, these are 45 grain and have the copper jacket pointed to a point then its hollow. The only difference I can see between this bullet and my reloaded cartridges using hornady v-max 45 grain bullets is the v-max's have that plastic ballistic tip inserted into the HP area.. Sooooooo, is it normal for this factory winchester varmit round to blow the top of the yote's back out or was it just an abnormal event, like maybe the bullet impacted directly into a bone and exploded..? Or will more range time shooting paper targets using spray and pray methods help me the next time a shoot a dog using these factory loads?

[H380]

Sometimes it doesn't seem to matter what you hit em with the results are drastic .. I saw Cowboy Clay take a dog last week in the chest with 22-250 and 55gr Noslers that completely destroyed the hide .. The next one had a pinhole .. What the - - - - ? My Hornady 55gr. sp have been pretty good but once in awhile ,

[25-06rem.model700]

I used to shoot 75 v-maxs out of my 25 at maximum so around 3600fps and broad side coyote hit in the lungs it wouldn't even exit, and the white box shells out of my 22-250 don't exit at all if hit right. I don't see with the same bullet and slower speeds your having problem if your shot placement is correct.

[H380]

Originally Posted by 25-06rem.model700

I used to shoot 75 v-maxs out of my 25 at maximum so around 3600fps and broad side coyote hit in the lungs it wouldn't even exit, and the white box shells out of my 22-250 don't exit at all if hit right. I don't see with the same bullet and slower speeds your having problem if your shot placement is correct.

Usually we aren't, thru the lungs there will be very little problem .. This one in the chest however looked like it had been hit with a missile .. Maybe a little shoulder blade problem ?

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by turkeygun

Did I say I used a FMJ? No. Did I spray and pray to ruin that hide? No.. Did my shot placement suck? I don't think a single shot at 50 yards broadside just behind the shoulder somewhat high is a bad shot... DRT? NOT sure what that means.

Not sure what kind of help your trying to forward here but it sounds kind of smart alecily to me.

I used a factory Winchester varmit cartridge, these are 45 grain and have the copper jacket pointed to a point then its hollow. The only difference I can see between this bullet and my reloaded cartridges using hornady v-max 45 grain bullets is the v-max's have that plastic ballistic tip inserted into the HP area.. Sooooooo, is it normal for this factory winchester varmit round to blow the top of the yote's back out or was it just an abnormal event, like maybe the bullet impacted directly into a bone and exploded..? Or will more range time shooting paper targets using spray and pray methods help me the next time a shoot a dog using these factory loads?

I'll try typing slower. Now that was smart "alecily".

You asked for help, I offered it. If it doesn't work for you, let me know and I'll give you full refund. Again that was smart "alecily"


I reread my post. It may help if you did. I did not say you used FMJ, I said I didn't think it was a good idea and why.
I didn't say you did the 'spray and pray" again bad idea, along with low percentage shots and long shots will all produce the condition you asked about, destroyed pelts.

So to recap.

You got a bad shot placement at 50 yards. I suggested more range time, and stay away from long shots.

I also offered some other situations that could produce pelt damage on a regular basis. I have no idea whether you use them when you hunt and I can assure you I never will.

You have come to a fork in the road of life. You can choose to take some value from advice you asked for from an experienced coyote hunter, or you can ignore it , shoot FMJ and stay away from range practice. The choice is yours. The second choice may involve a sewing course. I'm just sayin'.

If my advice has offended you , I apologize. Ignore it, send me your address and I'll get a refund check off to you.


BTW ,DRT means dead right there. as in where it was shot, not a mile away with it's guts hanging out.

Hope this helps.

[wwbirds]

I don't think a single shot at 50 yards broadside just behind the shoulder somewhat high is a bad shot.

I think a 50 yard broadside shot should only be a heart shot but there are also those that would argue any shot that kills a coyote is a good shot.
Low chest as Jim has tried to point out is not only the preferred DRT shot but also generally fur friendly.
At 50 yards it was a poor shot placement whether intended or accidentally because you were unsure where the placement should be. Judging by the description of opening up the back you hit the spine to rip that big hole through the back.

[Deer Hunter]

Aim a bit further back, as in the lungs/liver and you will avoid more bone and do less pelt damage.

[Redfrog]

You tell me, was your 50 yard shot a good one or not?

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by trigger7mm

I use 32 grain V-max in my .204, they work great. Shot placement is everything though.

yea shot placement is alot just hitting em and its just opening up shot 6 yotes only unded up with 4 dead and had to but 2 shots into 3 of them. thinking of getting 40 grain v-max

[ruger300]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

You tell me, was your 50 yard shot a good one or not?

Now if only they would always stand like that for me when I'm out calling yotes. LOL.

ruger300

[nekred]

I use 90 grain hollow points out of a 270.... as for being fur friendly... well depends on waht your definition is...

Is getting two pelts for the price of one fur friendly.... and almost any shot is a DRT shot... for me it is more about pest removal than pelts anyways

kind of like hitting a gopher with a 17HMR....

[Dovi]

What are you 22-250 guys using?[/QUOTE]


I have tried the same 45 gr winchester jacketed hollow points (white box) in my sako 85 .22-250 and have not been happy with their performance in regards to saving the pelt. The best factory load I have tried has been the 55gr winchester pointed soft point (grey box) they have been the most consistent in the size of hole they leave (entry and exit). My fur buyer rarely commented about holes when i used that load.

If you are going to get into reloading I have tried the Varmint gernades and found that they preformed similar to the winchester hollow points. I didn't like them.

My latest endeavor in reloading has been with the new superformance powder and the Barnes TSX. I have only shot one coyote to date with this load but so far so good! It was shot in the chest while facing me at 100 yards and except for a few drops of blood there was no evidence of the entry hole, and I couldn't find an exit hole. (probably because of the angle it was shot at..) I am anxious to go and try it on a few more yotes and increase the "sample size"!



The more you shoot the more you will find what works for you.

Good luck the rest of the winter!

[ducky_hunter]

Originally Posted by TBark

40 gr combine technology ballistic tip is what I shoot with my 22-250.
Won't know what damage it will do for a few days yet.

TBark

my 22 250 with 50gr ballistic tip put huge holes in yotes

[TBark]

Sorry, mis quoted myself,
My Comb tech silver tips are 50 gr, my Vmax are 40 gr,
but yes Ducky the relationship between bullet tip, shot placement and velocity need to be considdered regarding fur damage.
So what's the best combo for 22-250 using these bullets and 4895 powder ?

TBark

[Kale_M]

If you want to save hides ditch the 22-250. Use a smaller calibe and shoot them in vitals. I use a 204 and shoot the 35gr Berger hollow points. I can't even find an entrance hole in them. No exit. No bleeding into the fur. Just stone dead! If you want to just kill them then the 22-250 works good.