Tipping on Fishing Charter

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

So am I confused? There is a thread on AO about a special deal for chartered fishing. $2300 per person, 3 days of fishing, 4 fishermen per boat. $9200 for three days....and all the guide gets is $450 for pay???

That epic trip is with my company.
As to what my guides get paid, i can assure you that top quality guides get paid well in excess of what you are quoting.

As for the cost of running a lodge..YIKES!!!
Way more to it than paying for bait and a few rods. Just our reels alone are around $600.
Lets go over it.
-Purchase a suitable building in a suitable location
-outfit that building with furniture and beds
- Buy great boats
-out fit those great boats with equipment and electronics
-get a lodge boat
-fuel bills
-buy massive amounts of food
-pay staff, (4 for me)
-feed staff
-insure the whole thing
-maintain the Lodge
-maintain the boats
-replace $25,000 engines every 3 years
-replace rods every 3 years
-advertise on line
-radio advertising
-print advertising
-go to shows (Edmonton costs around $1,500+) we go to 6
- buy truck to haul boats
-buy trailer for truck
-promo materials for trade shows
-accounting fees
-lawyer fees
-Biz licenses
-moorage
-boat storage

Thats a ok wrap up. And remember we have 3 months a year to do this and we work in a slightly remote location.

In no way is this a complaint on our end, its just reality for what we chose to do.


Jamie

[The Fisherman Guy]

Definitely puts it into perspective Jamie, thank you for posting.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Just curious, but do you make $12-15 an hour? Is that all a guide's time is worth to you?

$150 a day "take home" is only marginally above minimum wage in Canada. A charter Captain likely has some marine training, first aid, and gear expenses. Not long before the guide is making less than minimum wage.

Owner/operators are a different story.

Those other expenses would have to be considered before take home.

$150 per day would be between $15-20 per hour for most guides(8-10 hrs work), that is 150-200% times minimum wage. It also happens to correlate roughly to the Canadian average income of 38.7k. It isn't great money by any stretch of the imagination but it is enough to live on.

I also have no idea if they do take home $150, it could very well be more then that. For ****s and giggles lets say it is $200, that is roughly the equivalent of 50k which is a fairly respectable salary. Say you are also giving them a $100 tip bringing them to $300, that is 75k. Only 10% of Canadians make over 80k. Do you really believe guiding should be anywhere near a top 10% paid job in Canada?

So in short terms. No $150 is no where near minimum wage(unless you get paid overtime and are working over 12 hours per day). $150 is respectable for a lower end number(which is what I was implying, "taking home at least $150").

But all this is speculation and hoopla without having an actual idea of wages. If lets say a guide is only guaranteed $100 take home. I completely agree that isn't enough for what they are providing. Given the prices they are charging I find it hard to believe that would be the case though.

Edit: Although Jamie kind of cleared it up by saying his guides make far more then $150 which means they are already above the Canadian average income. So I think hopefully you will see my point about why I believe it is unnecessary to tip excessively.

Edit2: You have to consider what you are getting for that money as well. In Jamie's case you get a nice lodge with good meals etc. Some other charters all you get is the boat for the day and some of those can be ridiculously expensive.

[Lefty-Canuck]

You assume the guide works all year round....in many places the job is seasonal and not a daily report.....

LC

[Mike_W]

This is getting off topic a bit but no doubt guiding can be lucrative to an extent, although just like any other occupation you get paid for your expertise and the use of your equipment. Extensive training and knowledge is needed just like any other journeyman or educated individual.

Out where we fish you see it all the time guys that try DIY trips and come home empty handed. I've been there but it took me several years to perfect my tactics and gain my knowledge now I do quite good for some Alberta boy.

Ill pick on David at Serrengetti as I'am sure he wont mind as everything is on his website. All inclusive package for four guys is $2900 or $725 Per Person day
He runs a 31ft pursuit boat with twin 250 HP Yamaha's (if you want to know what just the boat and motors cost you can Google it) these are wicked nice boast and fishing in a boat of that size and beam make days on the water feel much safer and enjoyable. (Jamie runs beautiful boats too) To add to a great experience David runs the best Islanders MR3's and Lamiglas rods (fighting monster spring salmon on a setup like this is bar none as I run the same setup with other very nice rods). His Halibut setups are very nice as well.

Now lets not forget all the other boat equipment and fishing gear and tackle.

Then there is the lodge and accomodations (A crappy 2 bed motel in Port Hardy will cost between $140 and $200 in the summer) and prepared food for three meals and snacks each day.

Then you slap on expenses of bait and gas each day and annual maintenance on the boat.

So lets break the daily expenses down a bit
$100 for accomodations
$75 for food
$25 per person for bait
$100 per person for gas (average day fishing David probably travels 60-80 Nautical miles and burns a ton of gas )

So at the bare minimum you are looking at a very conservative $300 per person just in expenses that leaves a potential profit of $425.

Now lets remember all the other expenses and taxes and incidentals several thousand dollars in pre season exploration. And the fact this is only a 90 day gig each year.

Yes you make money guiding but there is much more to being a guide and running a boat/lodge. You are paying for much more than just going fishing.

Oh and lets not forget if you want to take fish home the money in fish he is sending you home with almost makes for a free trip.
When I bring back just Salmon and Halibut limits im probably looking at 100 lbs of salmon fillets and 80 lbs in Halibut fillets (based on current halibut limits prior years where larger halibut were able to be kept this was higher) 100 x $17 = $1700 80 x $22 = $1760 + $1700= $3460 in fish not including the other bottom fish we take home.

Its not hard for a guy to make $350 per day in Alberta / BC these days ,if there werent some profits it wouldn't be worth the headache for these guys.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Those other expenses would have to be considered before take home.

$150 per day would be between $15-20 per hour for most guides(8-10 hrs work), that is 150-200% times minimum wage. It also happens to correlate roughly to the Canadian average income of 38.7k. It isn't great money by any stretch of the imagination but it is enough to live on.

I also have no idea if they do take home $150, it could very well be more then that. For ****s and giggles lets say it is $200, that is roughly the equivalent of 50k which is a fairly respectable salary. Say you are also giving them a $100 tip bringing them to $300, that is 75k. Only 10% of Canadians make over 80k. Do you really believe guiding should be anywhere near a top 10% paid job in Canada?


So in short terms. No $150 is no where near minimum wage(unless you get paid overtime and are working over 12 hours per day). $150 is respectable for a lower end number(which is what I was implying, "taking home at least $150").

But all this is speculation and hoopla without having an actual idea of wages. If lets say a guide is only guaranteed $100 take home. I completely agree that isn't enough for what they are providing. Given the prices they are charging I find it hard to believe that would be the case though.

Edit: Although Jamie kind of cleared it up by saying his guides make far more then $150 which means they are already above the Canadian average income. So I think hopefully you will see my point about why I believe it is unnecessary to tip excessively.

One issue i have with the above is the 8-10 hour work day. My guys put in on average 14 hours per day with some being longer. They are up before the clients
And still on the boats cleaning fish, refueling, cleaning boats, fixing equipment long after our guests have done fishing for the day.

Being a guide is easy, being a good guide is very tough. You have to learn to be all things to all people. You have to be beyond safety minded. These guests have literally put their lives in your hands. The pressure is outstanding and it takes a special individual to succeed in this industry.

Its part of my job to acquire and retain the best guides on the west coast. Its no easy feat to find this individuals.

Jamie

[Okotokian]

I had an odd experience doing flats fishing in Mexico. The standard was one guide per fisherman in small skiffs. I guess business was slow so I got my own boat with TWO guides. A bit of overkill IMHO. I had been told previously by the company what would be a decent tip for a guide, now I had two of them on my hands (trip itself was prepaid). I didn't have that much cash on me so ended up giving them more than I had planned for one guide, but not two times that amount. I gave it to the more senior guy and told him it was for both of them and let them figure it out.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

You assume the guide works all year round....in many places the job is seasonal and not a daily report.....

LC

I covered that earlier. As a consumer I expect only to have to pay a guide for his day's work. It is his responsibility to have a full time guiding position or supplement it with another outside job if necessary.

As for the comments about Jamie's and David's operations. Those get a little trickier to tip and if you are going to tip a percentage you need to make sure you tip everyone involved(cleaners, cook, guide and even the owner) not just the guide. Also in determining a fair amount you have to really include everything you are getting for your money.

Originally Posted by Jamie

One issue i have with the above is the 8-10 hour work day. My guys put in on average 14 hours per day with some being longer.

Your guides long hours with your operation is an exception due to how long you guys stay out fishing though is it not? Most guided tours seem to be out for a maximum of 8 hours, many times even closer to 6. I am sure the guides have to put a couple hours into equipment etc but that is why I assumed 8-10 hours.

[Redfrog]

Funny how it's so easy to see that the 'other' guy has a great job and is making fistfuls of cash.

If a guide is actually doing his job he is well worth his wages and tip.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by RavYak

I covered that earlier. As a consumer I expect only to have to pay a guide for his day's work. It is his responsibility to have a full time guiding position or supplement it with another outside job if necessary.

As for the comments about Jamie's and David's operations. Those get a little trickier to tip and if you are going to tip a percentage you need to make sure you tip everyone involved(cleaners, cook, guide and even the owner) not just the guide. Also in determining a fair amount you have to really include everything you are getting for your money.



Your guides long hours with your operation is an exception due to how long you guys stay out fishing though is it not? Most guided tours seem to be out for a maximum of 8 hours, many times even closer to 6. I am sure the guides have to put a couple hours into equipment etc but that is why I assumed 8-10 hours.

I personaly don't find our hours to be exceptional. We just put together a package that saw people get as much bang for their buck as possible. 10 hours is our usuall minimum. Holding back my guides from even longer days is a challenge.
If they had their way, they would do 12 hours + on the water.
My guides are exceptional though compared to most others. They love it if the tides are right to spend all day with clients then head out after dinner with who ever wants to go.
We had a client last year who had to unexpectedly leave a day early. Shea was fishing him up to 18 hours per day.
Crazy stuff
Jamie

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Jamie

That epic trip is with my company.
As to what my guides get paid, i can assure you that top quality guides get paid well in excess of what you are quoting.


In no way is this a complaint on our end, its just reality for what we chose to do.


Jamie

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as saying anything negative about the company. Was just commenting on someone else suggesting a fishing guide makes $150 per day...in relation to a known rate for a chartered trip.

Out of curiosity, what range should a TOP NOTCH fishing guide expect to be remunerated [not including tips or bonuses]?????

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as saying anything negative about the company. Was just commenting on someone else suggesting a fishing guide makes $150 per day...in relation to a known rate for a chartered trip.

Out of curiosity, what range should a TOP NOTCH fishing guide expect to be remunerated [not including tips or bonuses]?????

CS, it's all good. Not one bit of offence taken.
Industry wide for top notch guides starts at $250/day and goes up depending on conditions.

Jamie

[Serengeti Charters]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

This is getting off topic a bit but no doubt guiding can be lucrative to an extent, although just like any other occupation you get paid for your expertise and the use of your equipment. Extensive training and knowledge is needed just like any other journeyman or educated individual.

Out where we fish you see it all the time guys that try DIY trips and come home empty handed. I've been there but it took me several years to perfect my tactics and gain my knowledge now I do quite good for some Alberta boy.

Ill pick on David at Serrengetti as I'am sure he wont mind as everything is on his website. All inclusive package for four guys is $2900 or $725 Per Person day
He runs a 31ft pursuit boat with twin 250 HP Yamaha's (if you want to know what just the boat and motors cost you can Google it) these are wicked nice boast and fishing in a boat of that size and beam make days on the water feel much safer and enjoyable. (Jamie runs beautiful boats too) To add to a great experience David runs the best Islanders MR3's and Lamiglas rods (fighting monster spring salmon on a setup like this is bar none as I run the same setup with other very nice rods). His Halibut setups are very nice as well.

Now lets not forget all the other boat equipment and fishing gear and tackle.

Then there is the lodge and accomodations (A crappy 2 bed motel in Port Hardy will cost between $140 and $200 in the summer) and prepared food for three meals and snacks each day.

Then you slap on expenses of bait and gas each day and annual maintenance on the boat.

So lets break the daily expenses down a bit
$100 for accomodations
$75 for food
$25 per person for bait
$100 per person for gas (average day fishing David probably travels 60-80 Nautical miles and burns a ton of gas )

So at the bare minimum you are looking at a very conservative $300 per person just in expenses that leaves a potential profit of $425.

Now lets remember all the other expenses and taxes and incidentals several thousand dollars in pre season exploration. And the fact this is only a 90 day gig each year.

Yes you make money guiding but there is much more to being a guide and running a boat/lodge. You are paying for much more than just going fishing.

Oh and lets not forget if you want to take fish home the money in fish he is sending you home with almost makes for a free trip.
When I bring back just Salmon and Halibut limits im probably looking at 100 lbs of salmon fillets and 80 lbs in Halibut fillets (based on current halibut limits prior years where larger halibut were able to be kept this was higher) 100 x $17 = $1700 80 x $22 = $1760 + $1700= $3460 in fish not including the other bottom fish we take home.

Its not hard for a guy to make $350 per day in Alberta / BC these days ,if there werent some profits it wouldn't be worth the headache for these guys.

You do do pretty well for a flatlander Mike I was watching this thread and thought I'd chime in now.

Definitely don't get rich as a guide, and even as an owner/operator don't get rich but make a living, but with that living comes a lot of risk. Our 31ft Pursuit cost over $200,000, and I realize we could of done the charters and lodge experience with a different boat, but we want only the best and most comfortable. Other two not quite as much but still crazy pricey. For us it is 50k for new engines every 4-5 years as have to replace two new engines. Mortgage on land and lodge, insurance is killer, etc etc. Someone earlier said guides should be getting about 50% profit...no way, that is a mythical profit margin for the sector, and especially when things go wrong during the season on the boat or lodge etc, which happens more often than not.

Mike pointed out our Islanders are $600, well we went all out for our bottom fish reels as well getting Accurate reels which are $550 each (most operations use Penn G320 which are still not cheap at about $80 per reel). But with the amount of big hali's and Lings and Snapper we catch it only made sense to make sure guys don't get too tired bringing up the fish.

Gas per day is in $350-$450 range with our boats. Avg 22-24ft boat with single engine would likely be around half that. That combined with gear and boats, we are slightly more expensive than most on Vancouver Island anyway, way cheaper than Haida Gwaii however.

Since no one has been direct on the subject, guides usually make $200-$250 per day (this is when lodge/owner provides all tackle, rods, reels, etc), at larger lodges that is actually less as know a few guides up in Langara area, even though they charge more. This is seasonal and not enough to live off of all year, unless they do get tipped well. I've found some do not tip my father due to the fact he is owner as well, and while understandable a tip can be symbolic to the guide as well that the guests enjoyed their trip and appreciated the guide's hardwork. Lane, my father, and I stay out longer than anyone else in the area and are up around 4-430am on a June day and back to dock around 4-5pm, then handling of fish and cleaning boats, usually not back to lodge until around 630pm, that's 14 hours of very hard work, then we entertain at the lodge as well. We find that the all inclusive avg tip is about $150 a day. For charters only about $120 a day. Whenever asked by guests, I say whatever you feel fit, as I know not all have the same means. But if pressed I'll say dependent on how many per boat. Only two on the boat, $60 per person a day is good, three on board $50 per person a day, four people on board $40-50 I'd say as well, more on board more work for the guide for sure.

I think one thing that hasn't been touched on is the fact that as much as guides, including myself, LOVE fishing, it is still extremely hard work. Also a lot of stress, there is always pressure to catch fish, and entertain guests to make sure they are having fun. Usually the latter is decently easy as almost all of our guests I get along with great and chit chat is no problem. But sometimes it isn't. I know we at Serengeti know many people save up years for a trip, and we do everything we can to make sure it is in fact a trip of a lifetime, both on and off the water, that takes a lot of work that guests don't see as well behind the scenes. Always try and remember lots of work you don't see, boat maintenance included, occurs to make a trip happen

I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world, but guiding is by no means easy, and definitely no way to get rich quick. IMO, tipping your guides assuming good service is something that should be done, whether in Mexico (there in two weeks and fishing, can't wait ), Cuba, or Canada. I guess one could say I'm bias on the subject, but at the same time, definitely know how much work goes into it

David

[Mike_W]

All this fishing talk needs to be lightened up with some pictures!!!!

[Jamie]

Nice pics Mike. I miss fishing!!!
This year is going to kick Azz!

Jamie

[Jamie]

[RavYak]

Thanks for the info Jamie and David. I had been wondering how much hired guides make out there. Good to know they are making decent coin(about what I think is fair). As mentioned I am doing a trip in Nicaragua which is substantially cheaper but I know they likely don't pay their guides diddly squat and that isn't fair when the owner is raking in the cash.

I have looked at both your guided trips multiple times and really would like to go some day. Unfortunately I just don't think it is in the budget at this stage. Plus I don't want to be hooked and have to come back every year lol.

As for tipping a guide, I am going to stand by what I said. If it is a memorable trip I would tip(but only $20-50). Call me cheap or whatever you want I just have a hard time tipping more when I am already paying so much for these services.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Thanks for the info Jamie and David. I had been wondering how much hired guides make out there. Good to know they are making decent coin(about what I think is fair). As mentioned I am doing a trip in Nicaragua which is substantially cheaper but I know they likely don't pay their guides diddly squat and that isn't fair when the owner is raking in the cash.

I have looked at both your guided trips multiple times and really would like to go some day. Unfortunately I just don't think it is in the budget at this stage. Plus I don't want to be hooked and have to come back every year lol.

As for tipping a guide, I am going to stand by what I said. If it is a memorable trip I would tip(but only $20-50). Call me cheap or whatever you want I just have a hard time tipping more when I am already paying so much for these services.

Rav, hurry out to come see us. The trip is not in any shape or form about the tip.
It's all about great times, A great adventure and a boat load of great memories.

See you soon.
Jamie

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Rav, hurry out to come see us. The trip is not in any shape or form about the tip.
It's all about great times, A great adventure and a boat load of great memories.

See you soon.
Jamie

I will have already spent close to $1500 on fishing before I even get back for the summer. Then when I get back I will probably consider upgrading my boat.

Why oh why does fishing have to cost so much lol.

[Jimboy]

Yea right , like the Captins of thease over priced fishing charters are hurtin.
At a price tag of 3 grand or more for 3 days of fishing , they already have ripped you off by a grand , tipping thease gougers would be just plain stupid.

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by Jamie

That epic trip is with my company.
As to what my guides get paid, i can assure you that top quality guides get paid well in excess of what you are quoting.

As for the cost of running a lodge..YIKES!!!
Way more to it than paying for bait and a few rods. Just our reels alone are around $600.
Lets go over it.
-Purchase a suitable building in a suitable location
-outfit that building with furniture and beds
- Buy great boats
-out fit those great boats with equipment and electronics
-get a lodge boat
-fuel bills
-buy massive amounts of food
-pay staff, (4 for me)
-feed staff
-insure the whole thing
-maintain the Lodge
-maintain the boats
-replace $25,000 engines every 3 years
-replace rods every 3 years
-advertise on line
-radio advertising
-print advertising
-go to shows (Edmonton costs around $1,500+) we go to 6
- buy truck to haul boats
-buy trailer for truck
-promo materials for trade shows
-accounting fees
-lawyer fees
-Biz licenses
-moorage
-boat storage

Thats a ok wrap up. And remember we have 3 months a year to do this and we work in a slightly remote location.

In no way is this a complaint on our end, its just reality for what we chose to do.


Jamie

mmmmmmmm,sounds like yer a multi millionaire ther Jamie to be able to pay for all that.

[BassDude]

I chartered on a shared boat in Lahaina, Maui a couple summers ago. We left at 2am and drove until sunup to the spot we'd be fishing. The captain and 1st mate went out of their way to keep the rods rigged, and keep my 12 year old fishing in huge rolling waves. It was a really slow start and we spot hopped until they found the fish and then it was an absolute blast. The cost was $275 per person and we returned after lunch. They cleaned as much fish as we wanted and sold the rest - we had 3 huge fish bags full of fish - let my son drive the boat once we got out of the big surf (under supervision) and generally busted their ass. The Capt owned the boat, but was paying a commission to the charter company. The first mate was a an employee who basically did everything except drive.

Tipping is a personal thing. The other father son team from Seattle caught tons of fish and left nothing. I was going to give them each $50, but after the service we received on the water and at the dock I found a cash machine and topped it up. I gave them each $100. The trip was amazing. They even stopped at 4am for 5 minutes to allow us to see the stars in the middle of nowhere which was amazing as well.

I have been on trips where the guides work hard and we catch zip - as long as the guides work hard I will tip them - but as mentioned before if the trip turns out to be really good, then the tip goes up.

If a guide starts talking about tips 14 minutes into a trip, i will actually give him a bit of a warning - I've guided in Lake of the Woods - this stops the banter immediately and usually results in some great conversation exchanging experiences...

Put yourself in the guides shoes when thinking about the tip. Its a very hard living.

Guiding anglers and sportfishing for fun are 2 completely different things.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by BassDude

I chartered on a shared boat in Lahaina, Maui a couple summers ago. We left at 2am and drove until sunup to the spot we'd be fishing. The captain and 1st mate went out of their way to keep the rods rigged, and keep my 12 year old fishing in huge rolling waves. It was a really slow start and we spot hopped until they found the fish and then it was an absolute blast. The cost was $275 per person and we returned after lunch. They cleaned as much fish as we wanted and sold the rest - we had 3 huge fish bags full of fish - let my son drive the boat once we got out of the big surf (under supervision) and generally busted their ass. The Capt owned the boat, but was paying a commission to the charter company. The first mate was a an employee who basically did everything except drive.

Tipping is a personal thing. The other father son team from Seattle caught tons of fish and left nothing. I was going to give them each $50, but after the service we received on the water and at the dock I found a cash machine and topped it up. I gave them each $100. The trip was amazing. They even stopped at 4am for 5 minutes to allow us to see the stars in the middle of nowhere which was amazing as well.

I have been on trips where the guides work hard and we catch zip - as long as the guides work hard I will tip them - but as mentioned before if the trip turns out to be really good, then the tip goes up.

If a guide starts talking about tips 14 minutes into a trip, i will actually give him a bit of a warning - I've guided in Lake of the Woods - this stops the banter immediately and usually results in some great conversation exchanging experiences...

Put yourself in the guides shoes when thinking about the tip. Its a very hard living.

Guiding anglers and sportfishing for fun are 2 completely different things.

You may be on to something here

[Fishnafterwork]

I took 2 private boat charters in Maui

Captain doesn't accept the tip... Only the boat hand

Both times I gave 150$ and both times I believe the guys were happy with this $

First trip we caught loads of tuna and a mahi mahi
Second trip nothing

I tip on effort not results and I also took a fillet of the mahi back to cook up
If your brave try some raw tuna

[BassDude]

"If your brave try some raw tuna"

We ate raw tuna for 4 days following our adventure - sometimes seared lightly on the BBQ on both side leaving a raw middle, or just like sashimi sushi...amazing.