Confused about Little Buddy Heater

[DarkAisling]

I'm way confused. I just picked up a "Little Buddy" at the Fishin' Hole, as they didn't have the "Portable Buddy" or the "Big Buddy" in stock in Calgary.

According to the Fishin' Hole website, the "Little Buddy"
• CSA certified for indoor use
• One button ignition/on function
• Accidental tip-over safety shutoff
• Oxygen depletion sensor
• Heats up to 200 sq. ft.
• Connects directly to one 1 lb. disposable propane cylinder

Well, when I got home and actually read the box there are some differences. The box states:
• Designed and Approved for Outdoor Use
• Heats up to 100 sq. ft.

I've since checked a few different websites, and there seem to be some inconstancies between them, too.

I phoned the 1-800 number on the box, but the office is closed. I don't want to bug the guys over at TFH as the store was really busy.

I want this heater for use in my ice fishing tent, and in our camping tent. Will this thing be safe to use in our tents, or should I return it?

EDIT: Confused about something else . . . why do these indicate the area they'll heat, instead of the volume?

[honda450]

From what I read they produce 3800 BTU. I would go with the manufactures warnings myself. Dang I would not use it in a tent then go to sleep. You should not either. I am paranoid of this although I use a trailer with a vented furnace but still have a Carbon Monoxide alarm in it. I also leave the roof vent open a little no matter if the furnace is going or not. Father on my sons hockey team died from a propane heater in a camper. Watch em for sure.

[DarkAisling]

That's a very good point, Honda. Don't want to kill my kids . . . or myself.

Since the store was so busy, I figure I'll post it on the "For Sale or Trade" board for the sale price (with GST). I'll return it Monday or Tuesday if I still have it.

[honda450]

Should be good to go in a ice fishing shelter though long as it don' get too cold. Didn't want to scare ya Dark just warn ya of the possible dangers. Hey I just went through My H2S training on Tuesday too boot. That stuff is way more scary.

[Geezle]

As long as you have some ventilation in the ice tent you should be fine. A carbon monoxide alarm would be nice to have just for some extra peace of mind.

That being said, I still wouldn't use it while sleeping...I'm just paranoid like that

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by honda450

Should be good to go in a ice fishing shelter though long as it don' get too cold. Didn't want to scare ya Dark just warn ya of the possible dangers. Hey I just went through My H2S training on Tuesday too boot.

You made some very good points. I'd rather have something that is 100% approved for indoor and outdoor use, though. I suspect it would be just fine in the ice fishing tent, but I wouldn't want to use it in our camping tent. I'd still use a carbon monoxide detector.

I've done some more reading on the "Big Buddy" and it appears to be approved for enclosed spaces. I'll return (or sell) this, and then read the box/instructions for the next thing I go to purchase: before I leave the store with it. I was in such a hurry today. I just wanted to get out of the store and away from all of those people as quickly as possible.

[TroutHunter]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

You made some very good points. I'd rather have something that is 100% approved for indoor and outdoor use, though. I suspect it would be just fine in the ice fishing tent, but I wouldn't want to use it in our camping tent. I'd still use a carbon monoxide detector.

I've done some more reading on the "Big Buddy" and it appears to be approved for enclosed spaces. I'll return (or sell) this, and then read the box/instructions for the next thing I go to purchase: before I leave the store with it. I was in such a hurry today. I just wanted to get out of the store and away from all of those people as quickly as possible.

None of the Buddy series heaters are "100% Approved" for indoor use , the manufacturer might say "emergency indoor use" but that still doesn't mean go ahead and use it indoors. They are all direct fired , non vented heaters. This means they all take the air required for combustion from the space they're in and release the products of combustion into the space they're in. Products of combustion being Carbon Dioxide which is harmless and water. Now where you get carbon monoxide from is when they're is not enough oxygen left in the space to burn , carbon dioxide takes it's place and when that is burned you get carbon monoxide. The bigger the heater that you use (more btu)the greater the chance of you have of producing carbon monoxide.

So long story short , Use the smallest heater possible that will heat your space. Don't seal your tent up air tight , it really doesn't take much fresh air on a heater this size to avoid carbon monoxide production. And above all else , don't be lulled into a false sense of security thinking that one of these heaters is safer than another , because unless your heater has a chimney or some other type of vent to blow the products of combustion out of the space your in , you are still at risk for carbon monoxide poisoning.

[denpacc]

The Mr. Heater box is also unclear. The outside of the box said it was safe for indoor use, then the heater itself and the instructions said it was not safe for indoor use on tents, campers, etc. So I phoned the company shortly after I purchased it last year and they said it was safe to use indoors in a tent, just keep a window or fresh air inlet/outlet open.

I always keep the door partially open as well as one of the windows/vents ad me've neover haaave eh problemos. Mio braino werks jist fiine. So far so, what wus I's a sayin' agains?

Cheers

[TroutHunter]

Originally Posted by denpacc

The Mr. Heater box is also unclear. The outside of the box said it was safe for indoor use, then the heater itself and the instructions said it was not safe for indoor use on tents, campers, etc. So I phoned the company shortly after I purchased it last year and they said it was safe to use indoors in a tent, just keep a window or fresh air inlet/outlet open.

I always keep the door partially open as well as one of the windows/vents ad me've neover haaave eh problemos. Mio braino werks jist fiine. So far so, what wus I's a sayin' agains?

Cheers

Yeah it's nice how right on the box , it shows a guy in his shack ice fishing all toasty warm with the heater beside him , then you open up the box and there six different warning labels telling you not to use it indoors

[pecker]

Originally Posted by TroutHunter

None of the Buddy series heaters are "100% Approved" for indoor use , the manufacturer might say "emergency indoor use" but that still doesn't mean go ahead and use it indoors. They are all direct fired , non vented heaters. This means they all take the air required for combustion from the space they're in and release the products of combustion into the space they're in. Products of combustion being Carbon Dioxide which is harmless and water. Now where you get carbon monoxide from is when they're is not enough oxygen left in the space to burn , carbon dioxide takes it's place and when that is burned you get carbon monoxide. The bigger the heater that you use (more btu)the greater the chance of you have of producing carbon monoxide.

So long story short , Use the smallest heater possible that will heat your space. Don't seal your tent up air tight , it really doesn't take much fresh air on a heater this size to avoid carbon monoxide production. And above all else , don't be lulled into a false sense of security thinking that one of these heaters is safer than another , because unless your heater has a chimney or some other type of vent to blow the products of combustion out of the space your in , you are still at risk for carbon monoxide poisoning.

x2 couldn't have explained it better . vent & fresh air .

[hockey1099]

i have the little buddy. works great in my 3 man tent. The warning scared me too. I just leave my vents open and dont seal the bottom of the tent 100%. Heats it great and i made it back safe and sound. and a 1lb bottle lasted for over 4 hrs and still has some in it.

[ULTRAlite]

Vent a little - you'll be fine. Buy a CO detector if you are still worried.

[DarkAisling]

Thanks . . . some things are now much more clear. The area it will heat is still an issue, as I purchased it thinking that it would heat twice what it does: 200 vs 100. My tent footprint is around 68 square feet. Being that the volume isn't specified, it makes it hard to judge. I won't be out there in minus 30 (or even close to that).

I haven't decided what I'll do yet. If someone does contact me through the "Buy and Sell" about it before Monday I'll let it go . . . if not I may give it a shot. I did buy some very warm wool socks and some snowboard pants that will help keep me warm

[honda450]

Dang Dark how fast is it losing that heat?

[Paul C]

Shelley
Please talk to a certified gasfitter for your concerns or contact a supplier of propane products. I am sure there is a member here who could help you out. All propane products sold in Canada must meet current gas code. Look for the csa warnings about your appliance and follow it to a tee.

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by honda450

Dang Dark how fast is it losing that heat?

I'm sorry. I don't get it.

I'm seriously sleep deprived with a headache bordering on a migraine . . . so it isn't you . . . it's me

(I'm sure it is very witty)

Originally Posted by Paul C

Shelley
Please talk to a certified gasfitter for your concerns or contact a supplier of propane products. I am sure there is a member here who could help you out. All propane products sold in Canada must meet current gas code. Look for the csa warnings about your appliance and follow it to a tee.

Good idea.

[slingshotz]

I have the little buddy heater which I got the first year and it worked alright for our tent (about 64 sq feet) down to maybe -10. But I have a Eskimo tent which is 7 feet tall so all the hot air rises up which means that it took forever to warm it down to ground level. If your tent is one of the shorter ones that you can't stand up in, then it should be fine.

I got a used big buddy heater near the end of last year and it was more suitable for down to -20 to -30. And what someone else mentioned, anything that runs on propane is not 100% approved to run in an enclosed space. If you are using a popup tent, there's so many air leaks anyways you'll never have an issue. Plus they all have sensors built in that turn off when low oxygen is detected.

You wanna buy another little buddy to warm up both ends of your tent?

[Paul C]

Shelley, I found this link to answer your questions about propane safety.
http://propanesafety.com
Click on consumer information for your questions.
Play Safe

[Wulfespirit]

I've used the portable buddy in enclosed ice tents a ton - I just ensure the vent ports are open on the tent.

I probably wouldn't feel entirely safe sleeping with one but I've never hesitated to use it for ice fishing and haven't had any trouble.

[calgarygringo]

We have used the Bigbuddy in our shack for several years now. Yes the tip over works and shuts itoff as we have done that. Yes it shuts off automatically if too much c.o. we have done that too. We had our shelf for the fish tv to close above and it kept shutting it off. We thought it was the heater but read further and figured the new shelf was turning itself off. Moved the shelf out of range and no problem. If you go to their website and click on the manuals link on one of the first couple pages it does say in bold letters that you can use indoors but does also say:

WARNING:

If the recreational or commercial enclosure does not have a window or roof vent, DO NOT USE THIS HEATER INSIDE.

Bottom line is if you follow proper proceures you will be fine..

[Paul C]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

We have used the Bigbuddy in our shack for several years now. Yes the tip over works and shuts itoff as we have done that. Yes it shuts off automatically if too much c.o. we have done that too. We had our shelf for the fish tv to close above and it kept shutting it off. We thought it was the heater but read further and figured the new shelf was turning itself off. Moved the shelf out of range and no problem. If you go to their website and click on the manuals link on one of the first couple pages it does say in bold letters that you can use indoors but does also say:

WARNING:
If the recreational or commercial enclosure does not have a window or roof vent, DO NOT USE THIS HEATER INSIDE.

Bottom line is if you follow proper proceures you will be fine..

The cga and csa safety tags should also have this information.
CO carbon monoxide is a colorless and tasteless gas. The media reports deaths every year from this gas.

[TroutHunter]

Originally Posted by Paul C

Shelley
Please talk to a certified gasfitter for your concerns or contact a supplier of propane products. I am sure there is a member here who could help you out. All propane products sold in Canada must meet current gas code. Look for the csa warnings about your appliance and follow it to a tee.

I have 16 years experience in the HVAC industry and hold a master gasfitters license , that was the reason for previous post/science lesson , not to scare anyone into not using a heater in their tent.

Regardless of the manufacturers instructions , if used responsibly these heaters will work quite well for ice tent use. The low oxygen shut offs work well , just make sure if your heater kicks out unexpectedly you get some air into the tent. Set the heater up beside a door that can be left open a little way and know the initial signs of carbon monoxide poisoning and you'll make it home safe and sound.

[Paul C]

Perhaps Mr.TroutHunter could explain some of the first signs of CO poisoning. The effects are suttle but need to be known.
Thx Trouthunter
Paul C

[TroutHunter]

Originally Posted by Paul C

Perhaps Mr.TroutHunter could explain some of the first signs of CO poisoning. The effects are suttle but need to be known.
Thx Trouthunter
Paul C

Off the top of my head ,

-headache
-feeling light headed/dizzy
-labored breathing

any of these , shut the heater off and go outside

-Extreme dizziness
-Pounding headache
-Disorientation
-Drowsiness
-Chest pain
-Vommiting

any of these seek immediate medical attention

-Cherry Red skin , usually starting in the extremities , under the nails
-Unconsciousness

any of these.... it's too late , your probably dead

hope this helps and remember if ever in doubt , get some fresh air it won't kill ya

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by TroutHunter

Off the top of my head ,

-headache
-feeling light headed/dizzy
-labored breathing

any of these , shut the heater off and go outside

-Extreme dizziness
-Pounding headache
-Disorientation
-Drowsiness
-Chest pain
-Vommiting

any of these seek immediate medical attention

-Cherry Red skin , usually starting in the extremities , under the nails
-Unconsciousness

any of these.... it's too late , your probably dead

hope this helps and remember if ever in doubt , get some fresh air it won't kill ya

yEA BUT THEM BE THE SAME SIGNS OF A MAN WITH 13 KOKANIES IN HIS BELLY , LOL

[TroutHunter]

Very True