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  #301  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin.C View Post
If it is benificial to the lake I am 1000000000% for it..All for making it better.....
Ya that's what I thought, but is protecting spawning walleye ever not beneficial?
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  #302  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:05 PM
Justin.C Justin.C is offline
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Ya that's what I thought, but is protecting spawning walleye ever not beneficial?
should be...but i just want to hear the proof from our tax $$$ paying these biologists....
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  #303  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:33 PM
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should be...but i just want to hear the proof from our tax $$$ paying these biologists....
This is what makes all of this so strange.... While I think most of us can agree that a longer spring closure would most likely be beneficial to the lively hood of the fishery, there appears to be no data or studies to actually support the closure. So that goes back to all the underlying questions being asked in this thread. Specifically (but definitely not limited to)....
  • What exactly was the process used to come to this decision?
  • What data is there, if any, to support this decision?
  • Why the decision to push for a closure to the west arm, and not a longer closure for the whole lake?

So, if there is no data or studies to support this closure, even though most of us believe it would be beneficial to the lake, how exactly did all of this come about? Surely the SRD doesn't just make regulation changes on a whim, so there must be some underlying issues or motives pushing this closure.... It's all pretty 'fishy' to me...
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  #304  
Old 11-16-2011, 12:44 AM
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I'm tired of looking but there could be something in this link.
http://142.229.230.68/FishWildlife/F...Apr16-2011.pdf

there's some interesting stuff, this is a good bit;

Concerns expressed from some stakeholders about overpopulations of walleye in some lakes, view this as underutilization, sees impacts on the fish (“skinny walleye”), and potential conflicts with other users. View some advantage to holding some species (e.g., walleye) under carrying capacity. FMB responded that there might be some lakes where fish are nearing carrying capacity. Response to situation might be to allow increased harvest or let the lake achieve a balance naturally. Are pros and cons for both approaches.

Concern raised that northern pike are getting smaller and skinnier in some southern Alberta water bodies (Medicine Hat area). Unsure of cause or what could be done. FMB responded that this issue should be brought up at the Area Round Table for discussion

and is this a cached webpage or did it take 13 years to ammend?
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/20.../reg3-eng.html
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  #305  
Old 11-16-2011, 09:32 AM
Dan Foss Dan Foss is offline
 
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Originally Posted by GustavMahler View Post
I'm tired of looking but there could be something in this link.
http://142.229.230.68/FishWildlife/F...Apr16-2011.pdf

there's some interesting stuff, this is a good bit;

Concerns expressed from some stakeholders about overpopulations of walleye in some lakes, view this as underutilization, sees impacts on the fish (“skinny walleye”), and potential conflicts with other users. View some advantage to holding some species (e.g., walleye) under carrying capacity. FMB responded that there might be some lakes where fish are nearing carrying capacity. Response to situation might be to allow increased harvest or let the lake achieve a balance naturally. Are pros and cons for both approaches.

Concern raised that northern pike are getting smaller and skinnier in some southern Alberta water bodies (Medicine Hat area). Unsure of cause or what could be done. FMB responded that this issue should be brought up at the Area Round Table for discussion

and is this a cached webpage or did it take 13 years to ammend?
http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/20.../reg3-eng.html
That doesnt really answer any questions at all. If applied to the travers situation it actually raises more questions. If they are saying that fish are not getting as big and are skinnier due to the lake reaching carrying capacity then the answer should be slot size harvest. not extended closures. That is the exact opposites of each other.

I dont think this applies to the travers discussion regarding this particular closure. But it could explain why size numbers are decreasing in travers and some of the other southern res'. Once again it would be awesome to have the data that they gathered this statement from or that they are basing the closures on.
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  #306  
Old 11-16-2011, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Foss View Post
That doesnt really answer any questions at all. If applied to the travers situation it actually raises more questions. If they are saying that fish are not getting as big and are skinnier due to the lake reaching carrying capacity then the answer should be slot size harvest. not extended closures. That is the exact opposites of each other.

I dont think this applies to the travers discussion regarding this particular closure. But it could explain why size numbers are decreasing in travers and some of the other southern res'. Once again it would be awesome to have the data that they gathered this statement from or that they are basing the closures on.
If offers a perspective into the decision making and potential names and contacts of those who would have the data.

However, I received an email this morning on the "Data" of Travers and this is the bulk of the letter,,, which raises another question or several;

...... the netting survey you seem to be searching for was just completed at the end of September. We won't get around to analyzing the data until this winter, and the report won't be available until next spring at the earliest.
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  #307  
Old 11-16-2011, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by GustavMahler View Post
If offers a perspective into the decision making and potential names and contacts of those who would have the data.

However, I received an email this morning on the "Data" of Travers and this is the bulk of the letter,,, which raises another question or several;

...... the netting survey you seem to be searching for was just completed at the end of September. We won't get around to analyzing the data until this winter, and the report won't be available until next spring at the earliest.
Gus i appreciate ALL the digging and CSI work your doing. Every correspondance youve posted and send me is a important piece of the puzzle.
Thank You for your hard work
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  #308  
Old 11-17-2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Justin.C View Post
should be...but i just want to hear the proof from our tax $$$ paying these biologists....

Then you have no choice but to email our Bio over seeing the lake
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  #309  
Old 11-18-2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
First off, i applaud everyone in this thread for keeping cool heads and avoiding a lock down. Thank You.
(except for the obvious 1 and 2 post alters)

Some of posters seem to have a huge dislike for the SRD, which may be founded for whatever personal reasons they may have.
Some have posted their personal discussions on what SRD has told them, e.g. "That the arm is not a major spawning area", that comment alone is confussing and lessens the credibilty of this change.
Although i respect that certain clubs claim to have pushed this reg change thru, I want the data from SRD that backs this reg change, data which has been refussed to us. Proper data that gives us the best options for the lake's health. Data that indicates population numbers,fishing pressure,year classes,areas of the lake that need special consideration, etc etc.
Without the data and paper trail i fail to see SRD's purpose or function concerning OUR fish.
My issue has been from the beginning a issue of transperancy. All though i back this reg change in part as it is written. As a fisherman of Travers for over 40 years i see a problem. Is my issue with certain clubs an special interest groups?, not really but there appears to be some evidence in this thread that may indicate they know more than average joe blow fisherman.
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Originally Posted by npauls View Post
Thank you for that hard work you are putting in chubb. and I hope you can dig up the information that is necessary to really get everyone on the same page about what is happening with this water system.

Like you said, until we see that information no one can really say what is best for the fishery or make the proper changes to make it a better fishery.
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
I think your suggesting the purposed reg change is not enough to remedy the problem you describe......if thats the case, I fully agree we need more regulations to address the real problem.
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Originally Posted by MoFugger21 View Post
This is what makes all of this so strange.... While I think most of us can agree that a longer spring closure would most likely be beneficial to the lively hood of the fishery, there appears to be no data or studies to actually support the closure. So that goes back to all the underlying questions being asked in this thread. Specifically (but definitely not limited to)....
  • What exactly was the process used to come to this decision?
  • What data is there, if any, to support this decision?
  • Why the decision to push for a closure to the west arm, and not a longer closure for the whole lake?

So, if there is no data or studies to support this closure, even though most of us believe it would be beneficial to the lake, how exactly did all of this come about? Surely the SRD doesn't just make regulation changes on a whim, so there must be some underlying issues or motives pushing this closure.... It's all pretty 'fishy' to me...



This Alberta Government has become world class for withholding information.
Wildlife management and hunting regulation changes are having the same issue. Serious regulation changes without public release of any data to support the need. That's why I say, the PC party has gotta go.

Without the data, this whole thread, percieved problems and solutions, is pure speculation.


For those concernced, the Number 1 Priority must be to obtain the data.


Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy website.
http://www.servicealberta.ca/foip/
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  #310  
Old 11-18-2011, 07:28 PM
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Actually the number one priority should be to get the SRD/Bios funding so they can get good data and the staffing to obtain it. There is no real conspiracy here.

On another but related note. All the fuss that these threads created have have got guys phoning and emailing Terry and staff. Guess what, that just takes him away from other related duties.

While I understand it is your/our "right" to be informed, it uses up their time. Maybe thats why the round table? Maybe why the "groups"?

Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive. Input can be very important and helpful but also eats up resources. Some on here are irate/outraged at the process and or lack of process, but is something else for you to think about.
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  #311  
Old 11-18-2011, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Actually the number one priority should be to get the SRD/Bios funding so they can get good data and the staffing to obtain it. There is no real conspiracy here.

On another but related note. All the fuss that these threads created have have got guys phoning and emailing Terry and staff. Guess what, that just takes him away from other related duties.

While I understand it is your/our "right" to be informed, it uses up their time. Maybe thats why the round table? Maybe why the "groups"?

Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive. Input can be very important and helpful but also eats up resources. Some on here are irate/outraged at the process and or lack of process, but is something else for you to think about.
If all the calls swamp the dept to realize they need more funding or personal, then our point is made.
No one is convincing me Im wasting anyones time, just because i want answers to legitimate questions doesnt make me the bad guy.
Im curious is what ive highlighted in RED information direct from SRD?
If you truely believe we are wasting SRD's time, Wouldnt the volunteer release of info and data cure this?
If we are doing it the wrong way...educate me.....how?
I have attended the SRD meeting, I have now joined WU and attended their last meeting.
I accept your critisism but to use your words.....
"Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive"......unless you have a solution
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  #312  
Old 11-18-2011, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Actually the number one priority should be to get the SRD/Bios funding so they can get good data and the staffing to obtain it. There is no real conspiracy here.

On another but related note. All the fuss that these threads created have have got guys phoning and emailing Terry and staff. Guess what, that just takes him away from other related duties.

While I understand it is your/our "right" to be informed, it uses up their time. Maybe thats why the round table? Maybe why the "groups"?

Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive. Input can be very important and helpful but also eats up resources. Some on here are irate/outraged at the process and or lack of process, but is something else for you to think about.
If the number one issue is to get funding for staff to get the data that is needed. Then this so called BEOTCHING as you call it is exactly what is needed. Up till now no one has been screaming and asking for answers and look where it has gone....nowhere. I would say people should have been beotching long before this. Remember the old adage "It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease". As for as people phoning and e-mailing Terry that is the best thing I've heard that way he knows that people are not going to let this drop with out answers. If these calls are taking him away from other work then it is just more proof that more funding is needed and again this should do nothing but help. So I don't see how all this has done nothing but help. Just my insight on things.
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  #313  
Old 11-19-2011, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
If all the calls swamp the dept to realize they need more funding or personal, then our point is made.
No one is convincing me Im wasting anyones time, just because i want answers to legitimate questions doesnt make me the bad guy.
Im curious is what ive highlighted in RED information direct from SRD?
If you truely believe we are wasting SRD's time, Wouldnt the volunteer release of info and data cure this?
If we are doing it the wrong way...educate me.....how?
I have attended the SRD meeting, I have now joined WU and attended their last meeting.
I accept your critisism but to use your words.....
"Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive"......unless you have a solution
This was not directed at you cd! What im saying is its easier for them to deal with groups than individuals!

You have joined a group.

It is just something for people to think about, thats all.

Once again horse read my post! Join a group be part of your solution

I guess I need to use more icons to get my thoughts across.

Seems like I ruffle lots of feathers when I type.

I guess I should add, I have been a member of the LFG, Walleyes Unlimited and SAWT for 35ish years. Not neccessarily all at the same time.

Last edited by huntsfurfish; 11-19-2011 at 08:44 AM.
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  #314  
Old 11-19-2011, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Actually the number one priority should be to get the SRD/Bios funding so they can get good data and the staffing to obtain it. There is no real conspiracy here.

On another but related note. All the fuss that these threads created have have got guys phoning and emailing Terry and staff. Guess what, that just takes him away from other related duties.

While I understand it is your/our "right" to be informed, it uses up their time. Maybe thats why the round table? Maybe why the "groups"?

Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive. Input can be very important and helpful but also eats up resources. Some on here are irate/outraged at the process and or lack of process, but is something else for you to think about.

So the data for Travers doesn't exist or isn't sufficient to be reliable?



Many provinces and american states have found the internet to be a great place (easily accessible and cost efficient) to provide information to the public. The Alberta Gov. prefers to hold information behind the FOIP act.

"Round Tables" and "interest group" meetings rarely provide information to the public, just summaries of process and decisions. These processes do not allow the public to be informed.

Beotching is what the Public needs to do.
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  #315  
Old 11-19-2011, 09:29 AM
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This was not directed at you cd! What im saying is its easier for them to deal with groups than individuals!

You have joined a group.

It is just something for people to think about, thats all.

Once again horse read my post! Join a group be part of your solution

I guess I need to use more icons to get my thoughts across.

Seems like I ruffle lots of feathers when I type.

I guess I should add, I have been a member of the LFG, Walleyes Unlimited and SAWT for 35ish years. Not neccessarily all at the same time.
I'm not saying a group is bad I have been involved in a few of them over the years hunters and anglers , DU and a couple little small town local groups. But to say you have to belong to a group to be part of the solution or to be heard is a little close minded I believe there are far more anglers that don't belong to a group then there are anglers that do. You can not count out these people when looking for a solution. If I find a group that I feel is on the right track perhaps I will join as of yet it hasn't happened but that could change VERY shortly.
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  #316  
Old 11-19-2011, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Actually the number one priority should be to get the SRD/Bios funding so they can get good data and the staffing to obtain it. There is no real conspiracy here.

On another but related note. All the fuss that these threads created have have got guys phoning and emailing Terry and staff. Guess what, that just takes him away from other related duties.

While I understand it is your/our "right" to be informed, it uses up their time. Maybe thats why the round table? Maybe why the "groups"?

Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive. Input can be very important and helpful but also eats up resources. Some on here are irate/outraged at the process and or lack of process, but is something else for you to think about.

Interesting..... How does a person go about finding out that people have been contacting Terry Clayton? And that most of it has been bitching and not productive? Hmmmmmm.......
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  #317  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post


This was not directed at you cd! What im saying is its easier for them to deal with groups than individuals!
You have joined a group.

It is just something for people to think about, thats all.

Once again horse read my post! Join a group be part of your solution

I guess I need to use more icons to get my thoughts across.

Seems like I ruffle lots of feathers when I type.

I guess I should add, I have been a member of the LFG, Walleyes Unlimited and SAWT for 35ish years. Not neccessarily all at the same time.
Again
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  #318  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MoFugger21 View Post
Interesting..... How does a person go about finding out that people have been contacting Terry Clayton? And that most of it has been bitching and not productive? Hmmmmmm.......


By reading posts and putting 2 and 2 together



Where did I say most?

See thats what I am experiencing too
.
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  #319  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by MoFugger21 View Post
Interesting..... How does a person go about finding out that people have been contacting Terry Clayton? And that most of it has been bitching and not productive? Hmmmmmm.......
as someone else said "It is just something for people to think about,"
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  #320  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:17 PM
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Again
Not sure what this is in reply to???????
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  #321  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
By reading posts and putting 2 and 2 together



Where did I say most?

See thats what I am experiencing too
.
So again no facts just your opinion of what is happening to someone else.
I find that very strange.
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  #322  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
So the data for Travers doesn't exist or isn't sufficient to be reliable?



Many provinces and american states have found the internet to be a great place (easily accessible and cost efficient) to provide information to the public. The Alberta Gov. prefers to hold information behind the FOIP act.

"Round Tables" and "interest group" meetings rarely provide information to the public, just summaries of process and decisions. These processes do not allow the public to be informed.

Beotching is what the Public needs to do.
True, I agree

And just saying that groups are easier to deal with than individuals, not that individuals are not important.
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  #323  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Actually the number one priority should be to get the SRD/Bios funding so they can get good data and the staffing to obtain it. There is no real conspiracy here.

On another but related note. All the fuss that these threads created have have got guys phoning and emailing Terry and staff. Guess what, that just takes him away from other related duties.

While I understand it is your/our "right" to be informed, it uses up their time. Maybe thats why the round table? Maybe why the "groups"?

Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive. Input can be very important and helpful but also eats up resources. Some on here are irate/outraged at the process and or lack of process, but is something else for you to think about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
By reading posts and putting 2 and 2 together
Where did I say most?

See thats what I am experiencing too

Oh sorry, didn't realize that 'much' doesn't mean 'most'..... My bad.

And ya... even by reading prior posts, a person wouldn't/couldn't infer the amount of contact there has been to Terry, if there has even been any at all, let alone that "much" (not most) of the said contact has been bitching and moaning. That info is just not there from prior posts....
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  #324  
Old 11-19-2011, 05:30 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Ok guys time for you to figure it out.

You choose to see only what you want anyway. LOL
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  #325  
Old 11-19-2011, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
Ok guys time for you to figure it out.

You choose to see only what you want anyway. LOL


Well I think a lot of guys have already figured it out.......!


I would think we are not the only ones to only see what we want.
We are just carful of the way we post it


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Originally Posted by huntsfurfish View Post
By reading posts and putting 2 and 2 together



Where did I say most?

See thats what I am experiencing too
.
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  #326  
Old 11-20-2011, 09:29 AM
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Yup my bad, "much" was a bad choice of word.
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  #327  
Old 11-21-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chubbdarter View Post
If all the calls swamp the dept to realize they need more funding or personal, then our point is made.
No one is convincing me Im wasting anyones time, just because i want answers to legitimate questions doesnt make me the bad guy.
Im curious is what ive highlighted in RED information direct from SRD?
If you truely believe we are wasting SRD's time, Wouldnt the volunteer release of info and data cure this?
If we are doing it the wrong way...educate me.....how?
I have attended the SRD meeting, I have now joined WU and attended their last meeting.
I accept your critisism but to use your words.....
"Much of this contact is beotching and not neccessarily productive"......unless you have a solution
I can send some links later on bio's who opt in for contact and another where bio's have put that they don't want contact info put up. It's not wasting time, it's the purpose and we play by the rules of the reg's and we have the right as an abiding/paying outdoorsmen to ask question's. Now what one does with the data is another matter altogether, and I doubt poachers are willing to make contact to find schooling fish.

And as for me, I will continue to dig for info and I don't do it in a manner that could be construed as beotching,,, oddly enough, a bio dude who re-contacted me by phone was more up in arms about the non-data than I was,,, but that story will come later.
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  #328  
Old 11-21-2011, 07:16 PM
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Im curious how many have contacted SRD and how many have gotten replies.
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  #329  
Old 11-21-2011, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Foss View Post
Because people are childish. As it has already been established, the boundaries and dates for the SAWT are set by the licenses they are given to hold the tournament. SAWT could have chosen to apply additional boundaries to not include that section but lets face it(and this forum is an example), Anglers are a bunch of whiny babies. Half of the SAWT anglers would complain and whine that "but if half-wit angler-Joe is allowed to fish that section why cannot the tournament anglers who likely have superior fish handling skills". IF you dont think this would happen, then you need to wake up. It's like anything in the world, if the saw says you should be allowed to do something then there will be a group of people who think it is their legal right to do so and if a third party says no then that group will resist. If people were allowed to carry guns, they would.

It's not so simple as the SAWT saying "we are closing this section". especially when competition, money, and men are involved. There was no conflict of interest with the President of WU and SAWT being the same guy. If anything it worked to the best interests of both groups by incorporating them together. Providing both groups with invaluable information about the sport and the fish that we all enjoy.

PS. The people who know the answers are smart enough to not get involved in this kind of thing. I mean come on, it doesn't take a genius to figure out the clashing mentalities and superegos floating around here creates the grounds for a legitimate discussion about as stable as boiling water. That is why those who have the answers have pretty much said no more than tell people where to go for meetings that will provide some information.

Yuppers

Here ya go justin c , im staying out of this one , what some people are saying!


Kelly Lyle give your figen head a shake , and go back to the whole u came from!

Plus im way to busy chasing WT up north to read threw this crap , i might make time once hunting season is over!! Oh theres another 160 hmmm looks like hes going to walk thats number 2 up here so far hopefully a big deer will walk out , 2 more days till im sask bound

Later girls have fun whining , cause the men are out hunting in the cold !

Last edited by Drop_Tine; 11-21-2011 at 07:31 PM.
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  #330  
Old 11-21-2011, 07:50 PM
horsetrader horsetrader is offline
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Originally Posted by Drop_Tine View Post
Yuppers

Here ya go justin c , im staying out of this one , what some people are saying!


Kelly Lyle give your figen head a shake , and go back to the whole u came from!

Plus im way to busy chasing WT up north to read threw this crap , i might make time once hunting season is over!! Oh theres another 160 hmmm looks like hes going to walk thats number 2 up here so far hopefully a big deer will walk out , 2 more days till im sask bound

Later girls have fun whining , cause the men are out hunting in the cold !


WOW 8:30 on a monday night.........HMMMMM
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