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  #211  
Old 02-15-2010, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
Maybe im totaly wrong on the population thing but if so can you please tell me then how come many sheep winter pastures have alot less sheep than in the past just because there is no unbiased factual or revelent data stating there is a population problem there is also non that states that there isnt one!!!
Traditional knowledge and direct observations are valid - no argument from me there. Surely the government has annual winter range counts of those same areas, no ? What about for wolves ?

My concern, as is that of many, is that the onus must be on government to prove to us, the people of Alberta, how reducing hunter opportunity is going benefit anything other than APOS and related special interest groups? Why is SRD pushing hunter restrictions, while blatantly ignoring the basic widlife management principles of predator control and habitat management. Can you agree that something is seriously conflicting with that approach ?
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  #212  
Old 02-15-2010, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by monstermulie View Post
Why don't they just make it so that you can only hunt sheep with archery equiptment?

All thought this may not be liked by some, the harvest numbers would go down, and you'd be able to hand out more tags due to the low success rate.

Just an idea
Once again you are managing hunters and not the game. Just my 2 cents.
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  #213  
Old 02-15-2010, 02:17 PM
monstermulie monstermulie is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 209x50 View Post
Once again you are managing hunters and not the game. Just my 2 cents.
Agreed, first off something has to be done with the preditors, but if you did make it archery only then you would have more guys being albe to hunt which would make the general public happy due to the decreased wait period.

On top of that throw a $100 bounty on wolves and an increase number of femails cats that can be taken before seasons close and you're set
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"The culture I stand for is sometimes lost into today's society, when in fact
society was built on the culture of THE HUNTER.

A hunter is more than a predator, a hunter is a provider...a caretaker...a leader.
I will never make excuses for who I am... It's the way I was born... I'm a
hunter... A BONE COLLECTOR!!!"
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  #214  
Old 02-15-2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by monstermulie View Post
Agreed, first off something has to be done with the preditors, but if you did make it archery only then you would have more guys being albe to hunt which would make the general public happy due to the decreased wait period.

On top of that throw a $100 bounty on wolves and an increase number of femails cats that can be taken before seasons close and you're set
But only 16% of Alberta hunters chose to use archery, you would punish the other 84%? Lets manage the game and not the hunters.
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  #215  
Old 02-15-2010, 02:31 PM
monstermulie monstermulie is offline
 
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Why not manage both for better results?

And the 84% that dont archery hunt have exactly the same oppertunity as the archery hunters, they just choose not to. Thats their decision, they'er not being punished.
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"The culture I stand for is sometimes lost into today's society, when in fact
society was built on the culture of THE HUNTER.

A hunter is more than a predator, a hunter is a provider...a caretaker...a leader.
I will never make excuses for who I am... It's the way I was born... I'm a
hunter... A BONE COLLECTOR!!!"
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  #216  
Old 02-15-2010, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by monstermulie View Post
Why not manage both for better results?

And the 84% that dont archery hunt have exactly the same oppertunity as the archery hunters, they just choose not to. Thats their decision, they'er not being punished.
I take it you are an archery hunter...
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  #217  
Old 02-15-2010, 02:40 PM
monstermulie monstermulie is offline
 
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I hunt with both to maximise my oppertunity
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"The culture I stand for is sometimes lost into today's society, when in fact
society was built on the culture of THE HUNTER.

A hunter is more than a predator, a hunter is a provider...a caretaker...a leader.
I will never make excuses for who I am... It's the way I was born... I'm a
hunter... A BONE COLLECTOR!!!"
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  #218  
Old 02-15-2010, 02:45 PM
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walking buffalo walking buffalo is offline
 
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Originally Posted by monstermulie View Post
Why not manage both for better results?

And the 84% that dont archery hunt have exactly the same oppertunity as the archery hunters, they just choose not to. Thats their decision, they'er not being punished.
Let me get this right, you are suggesting "managing" rifle hunters by reducing their hunting opportunity by 100% ?
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  #219  
Old 02-15-2010, 03:01 PM
JustinC JustinC is offline
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Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
Let me get this right, you are suggesting "managing" rifle hunters by reducing their hunting opportunity by 100% ?
I agree with you on this one Dale this is stupid.I hunt with bolth as well, All that making it a bow only is one step closer to closing it completely.Leave it alone.If somthing like this were to happen we would have to choose what draw to put in for a archery or a rifle in all zones and all animals..... I am not down with that. Are you????
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  #220  
Old 02-15-2010, 03:13 PM
monstermulie monstermulie is offline
 
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Everyone seems to be so keen on managment, but when it comes to waiting or giving something up they no longer like it. If you think about the solutions that everyone has agreed on being only preditor control, ie. shooting wolves and cats thats pretty sad. Once again you want to kill more animals so you don't have to give something up.

Don't get me wrong here I think we need ALOT of preditor control but its a two way street if we really want to improve the quantity and quality of the sheep herds.

If something extreme isn't done soon to help the sheep growth you'll see sheep hunting closed just like the grizzly bears
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"The culture I stand for is sometimes lost into today's society, when in fact
society was built on the culture of THE HUNTER.

A hunter is more than a predator, a hunter is a provider...a caretaker...a leader.
I will never make excuses for who I am... It's the way I was born... I'm a
hunter... A BONE COLLECTOR!!!"
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  #221  
Old 02-15-2010, 03:17 PM
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If something extreme isn't done soon to help the sheep growth you'll see sheep hunting closed just like the grizzly bears
K I'll bite,- based on which study do you know this for a fact?
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  #222  
Old 02-15-2010, 03:30 PM
JustinC JustinC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstermulie View Post
Everyone seems to be so keen on managment, but when it comes to waiting or giving something up they no longer like it. If you think about the solutions that everyone has agreed on being only preditor control, ie. shooting wolves and cats thats pretty sad. Once again you want to kill more animals so you don't have to give something up.

Don't get me wrong here I think we need ALOT of preditor control but its a two way street if we really want to improve the quantity and quality of the sheep herds.

If something extreme isn't done soon to help the sheep growth you'll see sheep hunting closed just like the grizzly bears
Quote.

Don't get me wrong here I think we need ALOT of preditor control but its a two way street if we really want to improve the quantity and quality of the sheep herds.

So why would me just make it archery???? 1)You would gain somthing. 2)Some people dont like us bow hunters.3) Some people think to be ethical you need to practice lots. Some people dont have time to do this.LEAVE ALL AS IS NO CHANGE REQUIRED.


I Totally disagree with you Grizzly bear comment. I think you will see it reopen after there BS study they did on them(IMO). There are way more then the think as the same goes for wolfs and cougars.
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  #223  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstermulie View Post
Why don't they just make it so that you can only hunt sheep with archery equiptment?

All thought this may not be liked by some, the harvest numbers would go down, and you'd be able to hand out more tags due to the low success rate.

Just an idea
why dont we just get rid of the general mule deer tags for archery then so that the rifle hunters can have more tags, makes sense to me
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  #224  
Old 02-15-2010, 05:32 PM
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Hey ksteed17 were you able to get ahold of anyone about your ram being at the sheep banquet?
SG
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  #225  
Old 02-15-2010, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ksteed17 View Post
why dont we just get rid of the general mule deer tags for archery then so that the rifle hunters can have more tags, makes sense to me
X2!!!..why don't we just eliminate archery altogether????...that way we reduce the over all pressure by 16%...Man...way to go guys!!!!!...it's always the OTHER guy that's the problem...no wonder nothing ever gets done...everyone is looking after their own back yard and screw everybody else!!!
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  #226  
Old 02-15-2010, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by hal53 View Post
X2!!!..why don't we just eliminate archery altogether????...that way we reduce the over all pressure by 16%...Man...way to go guys!!!!!...it's always the OTHER guy that's the problem...no wonder nothing ever gets done...everyone is looking after their own back yard and screw everybody else!!!
From what I've seen in these sheep threads, a lot of guys are forgetting about their own backyard and looking to the good of all Alberta sheep hunters. From what I've seen, the backyard crowd is definitely the minority. Seems like a lot of concerned hunters on these threads.
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  #227  
Old 02-15-2010, 09:23 PM
ganderblaster ganderblaster is offline
 
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Does anyone know how many sheep sheep outfitters kill in Alberta a year?
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  #228  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:07 PM
Vindalbakken Vindalbakken is offline
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According to the 2007 numbers 85 Non Res hunters killed 45 sheep and 2150 Resident hunters harvested 143 sheep.
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  #229  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:10 PM
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I heard 23 in 2009.....it was down considerably from the previous few years.
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  #230  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:32 PM
ganderblaster ganderblaster is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sheephunter View Post
I heard 23 in 2009.....it was down considerably from the previous few years.
Would it be correct to assume thats where the pressure to penalize a resident hunter by revoking his sheep hunting privileges for 5 years is coming from? as this has been alluded to.Did you hear the resident kill numbers for '09?
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  #231  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:34 PM
Vindalbakken Vindalbakken is offline
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I know the waterfowl and deer hunting outfitters were having trouble filling their bookings. Perhaps the sheep were the same? Not enough guys with the coin to go out hunting so not as many rams killed. Dunno. Anyone?
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  #232  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ganderblaster View Post
Would it be correct to assume thats where the pressure to penalize a resident hunter by revoking his sheep hunting privileges for 5 years is coming from? as this has been alluded too.What were the resident kill numbers for '09?
I haven't seen the resident numbers Gander. I know there are lots of people speculating as to the driving force behind the 5-year wait resolution but I honestly don't know anything concrete. I've been told that the person that originally drafted the resolution was a guide but whether there's a connection or not I honestly don't know. There's sure lots of people that think there is though. I'm not sure.
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  #233  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Vindalbakken View Post
I know the waterfowl and deer hunting outfitters were having trouble filling their bookings. Perhaps the sheep were the same? Not enough guys with the coin to go out hunting so not as many rams killed. Dunno. Anyone?
I did hear that 2009 was the first year ever when less than 50% of the overall non-resident tags were not sold but I haven't seen the number of sheep tags sold. I've asked but haven't received an answer yet.
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  #234  
Old 02-15-2010, 10:37 PM
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Im very sure the outfitters are trying to get things going to help there situation. An that isnt right if we are controled in any way they should be more so!!
Id like to see how many actual non resident hunters hunted sheep this year as I know a few outfitters that had tags open.

I know of a minimum of 10 tags that werent booked and herd about a few more that I cant confirm.
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  #235  
Old 02-16-2010, 12:10 AM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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well the fishing was good today, so i apologize for getting here late. found your agreement to my statements rich...sheep on a draw post 472.

"I think I read stinky that it is all about numbers for you as well, just different numbers than the group you were speaking about but numbers none the less. A 5 year wait won't make any difference. If the problem of not enough opportunity lies with the number of rams taken in a year then that number would need to be reduced and that would mean a draw, short and sweet. "

i told you just admit it, but i looked anyway. as for pack...well i guess if im darcys brother then you must be 209s? sometimes i agree with someone, other times not so much. you have obviously not been part of the discussion from the start, so i guess you missed it when darcy and i spent 2 pages debating a few things. of course we argued our sides without calling each other mornic or stupid. i pointed out the fact that rich has added nothing to this discussion and has called people stupid and moronic for their ideas because i guess he disagrees, but still has not offered up a single idea of his own. the whole predator issue and habitat improvement is good thinking, but not his idea. he jumped on board on about page 12 of sheep on a draw. it was also page 13 of that thread where the insults began. that was when he called a guy simple minded. rich has also asked questions here, but EVERY time he has been asked a question he ran away and tried to change the subject. the questions i repeated were just a few that i remembered. i could quote all of this, but it would take up alot of space. for those who think there is chest thumping going on, well i hope you didnt mean me. when i said i killed a sheep 21 km from my truck, the rest of that sentence was asking how to control predators in an area that is not easily accessible. i was simply saying that it is not as easy as just saying control predators. i then asked for ideas on how to do it, but....well....we have seen rich avoid questions and not come up with any new ideas, so more of the same there. if anyone has ideas how to do it by the way, speak up. as for claiming to be a sheephunting expert, well i guess you missed that too. i have hunted a long time in alberta and a lot of it in the mountains, but my specific sheep hunting has been 6 days, and i have killed 1 ram. i stated that way back in sheep on a draw...about page 14 i think it was. check out my posts, and you will see clearly that i never claimed to be a sheep expert. after going back to look at the start of this topic, i think the best ideas came from the first few pages of sheep on a draw. after learning a ton because of these threads, most of the good ideas came up early, and i think okotokians plan might make the most sense. again too much to quote, but it is worth going back to look at. im ready to talk about predators, but i see we have another thread for that.
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  #236  
Old 02-16-2010, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
well the fishing was good today, so i apologize for getting here late. found your agreement to my statements rich...sheep on a draw post 472.

"I think I read stinky that it is all about numbers for you as well, just different numbers than the group you were speaking about but numbers none the less. A 5 year wait won't make any difference. If the problem of not enough opportunity lies with the number of rams taken in a year then that number would need to be reduced and that would mean a draw, short and sweet. "

i told you just admit it, but i looked anyway. as for pack...well i guess if im darcys brother then you must be 209s? sometimes i agree with someone, other times not so much. you have obviously not been part of the discussion from the start, so i guess you missed it when darcy and i spent 2 pages debating a few things. of course we argued our sides without calling each other mornic or stupid. i pointed out the fact that rich has added nothing to this discussion and has called people stupid and moronic for their ideas because i guess he disagrees, but still has not offered up a single idea of his own. the whole predator issue and habitat improvement is good thinking, but not his idea. he jumped on board on about page 12 of sheep on a draw. it was also page 13 of that thread where the insults began. that was when he called a guy simple minded. rich has also asked questions here, but EVERY time he has been asked a question he ran away and tried to change the subject. the questions i repeated were just a few that i remembered. i could quote all of this, but it would take up alot of space. for those who think there is chest thumping going on, well i hope you didnt mean me. when i said i killed a sheep 21 km from my truck, the rest of that sentence was asking how to control predators in an area that is not easily accessible. i was simply saying that it is not as easy as just saying control predators. i then asked for ideas on how to do it, but....well....we have seen rich avoid questions and not come up with any new ideas, so more of the same there. if anyone has ideas how to do it by the way, speak up. as for claiming to be a sheephunting expert, well i guess you missed that too. i have hunted a long time in alberta and a lot of it in the mountains, but my specific sheep hunting has been 6 days, and i have killed 1 ram. i stated that way back in sheep on a draw...about page 14 i think it was. check out my posts, and you will see clearly that i never claimed to be a sheep expert. after going back to look at the start of this topic, i think the best ideas came from the first few pages of sheep on a draw. after learning a ton because of these threads, most of the good ideas came up early, and i think okotokians plan might make the most sense. again too much to quote, but it is worth going back to look at. im ready to talk about predators, but i see we have another thread for that.
(yawn)... you are getting as repetitive as someone I ignore, nothing new to say so you regurgitate.
bambi, a bad idea is better than no idea in your world, huh? What happens when all the good ideas are taken, do you just make up silly sh1T? Oh, yeah I guess you do.
Now this thread is about sheep, it is not here for you or me or anyone else to beat their chest as they claim the credentials that they think makes their idea the best or their voice the one that should be heard above all others.
We win this with all voices speaking as one voice. Grow up enough to quit the dick measuring and contribute something worthwhile if you can.
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  #237  
Old 02-16-2010, 07:38 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
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Pretty funny how a discussion goes, someone states an opinion and is disagreed with and told to back their facts. They say the experience they hav and what they have seen(which they feel backs what they are saying) and all of a sudden they are beating their chest or being braggards. Hmmm guess you should just say your thoughts then if someone says thats wrong you shoud crawl under the carpet like a timid dog( as many do if certain guys on here talk). Funny how the guys that say everyone is wrong are never able to back their own thoughts and opinions unless they can do an internet search to find info on it. Just my thoughts not yours!!

SG
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  #238  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:15 AM
albertaboy albertaboy is offline
 
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How about all of us going out in the early summer and having a good ole fashioned treeline burnin fire. Whens the last time sheep habitat was improved like nature intended? I think that would be the best, less trees the sheep can see wolves coming sooner. Better feed. Whens the last time the government had a prescribed burn for this? And if you know where?
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  #239  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:50 AM
Vindalbakken Vindalbakken is offline
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Can you burn trees you don't own? Are there any trees that arn't owned by forest companies?
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  #240  
Old 02-16-2010, 08:56 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
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Can you burn trees you don't own? Are there any trees that arn't owned by forest companies?
I wouldnt wanna get caught starting a fire. I beleive you end up covering the bill to put it out!!!!!!!
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