kill Alberta’s brook trout

[kujo]

Not my personal opinion or view but an interesting read.

http://outdoorcanada.ca/19988/fishin...as-brook-trout

[FishingForLife]

Ineresting. As a Catch & Release fisherman, I highly doubt i'd ever go out of my way to out right kill anything. Seems kinda barbaric to me. Clearly some people are acting before they think here.

[Darren N]

Originally Posted by kujo

Not my personal opinion or view but an interesting read.

http://outdoorcanada.ca/19988/fishin...as-brook-trout

I agree.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by FishingForLife

Ineresting. As a Catch & Release fisherman, I highly doubt i'd ever go out of my way to out right kill anything. Seems kinda barbaric to me. Clearly some people are acting before they think here.

Actually, you'd be 100% wrong. People are acting with clear thought and purpose here.

The people who REALLY acted before they were thinking were the short-sighted fisheries managers that transplanted brook trout here from eastern Canada in the mid-1900's, as the article states.

I have participated several times on the Quirk creek suppression project, it was fascinating. Even took a group of school kids. Fish aren't wasted; they're eaten.

Bottom line is look past Bruce Masterman's sensationalist article and look at the big picture; they have made a special harvest license available to anglers because the results of the Quirk creek project have been modestly successful, and now they are applying the same approach to a select few streams with only a small number of anglers. Brook trout, in some cases, make up over 90% of the stream population, severely impacting the natural balance in numerous streams between bulls and cutts.

To obtain the license is a process in itself; you have to pass an ID test and go on a supervised outing to Quirk creek; they don't just turn you loose on the Eastern Slopes.

I fully support this program, because the goal will never be achieved; it would be impossible to kill every brook trout in the province, it would like trying to remove all the rabbits out out of Australia. Brook trout are here to stay. So lets at least take some measures to control their numbers.

Smitty

[Flyfisher87]

Originally Posted by Darren N

I agree.

I agree as well. Brookies tend to procreate rather profusely and eat native species out of house and home. I would be all for a catch and keep regulation on certain waters for brookies. Throwing a number out here, but the standard 5 a day wouldn't even put a dent in most populations according to the numbers listed in the article.. I would suggest something higher. Keep in mind though, these waters would have to be continually monitered so the species didn't get completely wiped out.

[Flyfisher87]

Originally Posted by smitty9

Actually, you'd be 100% wrong. People are acting with clear thought and purpose here.

The people who REALLY acted before they were thinking were the short-sighted fisheries managers that transplanted brook trout here from eastern Canada in the mid-1900's, as the article states.

I have participated several times on the Quirk creek suppression project, it was fascinating. Even took a group of school kids. Fish aren't wasted; they're eaten.

Bottom line is look past Bruce Masterman's sensationalist article and look at the big picture; they have made a special harvest license available to anglers because the results of the Quirk creek project have been modestly successful, and now they are applying the same approach to a select few streams with only a small number of anglers. Brook trout, in some cases, make up over 90% of the stream population, severely impacting the natural balance in numerous streams between bulls and cutts.

To obtain the license is a process in itself; you have to pass an ID test and go on a supervised outing to Quirk creek; they don't just turn you loose on the Eastern Slopes.

I fully support this program, because the goal will never be achieved; it would be impossible to kill every brook trout in the province, it would like trying to remove all the rabbits out out of Australia. Brook trout are here to stay. So lets at least take some measures to control their numbers.

Smitty

You were posting the same time I was. Your point is more clear.

[walking buffalo]

Brook trout are not just another trout. They do outcompete and displace native fish, and potentially interbreed with Bull trout.


We need to eliminate fertile brook trout from our streams. Hopefully the province will expand the "stewardship licence" program.

[silverdoctor]

Never fished for brookies here, but they are native to Newfoundland. Never had much size to them but fun to catch. Newfoundland is having issues with brown trout, competing for territory and it's just another issue for salmon to deal with.

It's a shame to see how far the invasive species have gone and how much damage done...

[Albertafisher]

I totally agree with the article.

[greylynx]

I have stooped to eating Brookies. They are mighty tasty snacks after you smoke them or eat them fresh....even raw.

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by greylynx

I have stooped to eating Brookies. They are mighty tasty snacks after you smoke them or eat them fresh....even raw.

You should watch a show called "Monsters Inside of Me". Keeping eating them raw and it is only a matter of time for you. Good luck with that.

[SNAPFisher]

I would love to see more Brook Trout stocked versus rainbows. Only in lakes/ponds that are deemed "safe" with no chance of escape. Triploid's, even better. Sure gotta search to find a good brookie lake/pond nowadays while bows are everywhere.

As for the eradication in steams with native fish, I fully support it.

[uplander]

I began to fish a stream that was no more then 4feet across at best. When I first fished it there was about a 90% cutthroat population and a 10% brown population. The population was steady for about 4 years after I first fished it and never caught a single brookie and then on the 5 year on my first putting I caught all Brookies a few cutts and a few browns, within two years all the cutts had vanished and the browns had moved out. The sad part is the browns don't use it to spawn anymore and the pure strain cutts that used to live there are now wiped out, I'm all for killing Brookies !

[Kingfisher]

This was posted back in 06/03/ 2011 http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=94220

The first posting tells how you can get involved in this project.

Here is a quote from that first posting by Jstelfox.

If you would like to participate in this project, or have questions, please contact Jim Stelfox Jim.Stelfox@gov.ab.ca (403-851-2205) or Jenny Earle Jennifer.Earle@gov.ab.ca (403-851-2211) of the Fish and Wildlife Division, or Brian Meagher bmeagher@tucanada.org of Trout Unlimited Canada (403-209-5185).

Rob

[ReconWilly]

Interesting article and decent website thanks for the link, Nature always knows whats best, if you can't see the big picture, theres no point in anyone trying to explain it to you. I'm all for 50 brookie limits, the smokers always ready for that!!

[BeeGuy]

look at the thread tags, hehehe
|
V

[silverdoctor]

Taco hasn't showed up to post yet, should get his attention...

[kujo]

Originally Posted by ReconWilly

Interesting article and decent website thanks for the link, Nature always knows whats best, if you can't see the big picture, theres no point in anyone trying to explain it to you. I'm all for 50 brookie limits, the smokers always ready for that!!

It's not so much I can't see the reasoning behind the actions but the fact I figured this topic would get some monkeys flinging poo and I thought it best to duck and cover before it got messy

[the local angler]

i also have one of these stewardship licences and have been with the quick creek project from day one. still support it and brookies are mighty tasty.

[walking buffalo]

Read this report for solid information on why this program exists.

A Stewardship Licence for Alberta Anglers:
Increasing the effectiveness of Special Regulations through Angler Education.
University of Calgary, 2005

http://www.rockies.ca/files/reports/...0education.pdf

I wish they could extend this program in other areas, such as the Coal Branch. The little rainbows can use all the help they can get in many streams.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by FishingForLife

Ineresting. As a Catch & Release fisherman, I highly doubt i'd ever go out of my way to out right kill anything. Seems kinda barbaric to me. Clearly some people are acting before they think here.

Originally Posted by greylynx

I have stooped to eating Brookies. They are mighty tasty snacks after you smoke them or eat them fresh....even raw.

Slendid. I like to see this forward thinking and the fact that they are inlcuding third parties.
Brookies are delicious.

[Don Andersen]

Well I hate to be the guy that mentions the TRUTH. But in some waters, there was never cuts and few if any bulls. Brooks arrived and now there is some fish. So do you kill all the brookies waiting for cuts to magically appear. From the Bow drainage > the Athabaska drainage, there were no cuts or rainbows. Bulls exists in some waters. Whitefish in some waters.
You either fish for brookies in some areas or nothing. Cuts and rainbows are not native in the drainage but have been artificially introduced.

regards,

Don

[chubbdarter]

Originally Posted by don andersen

well i hate to be the guy that mentions the truth. But in some waters, there was never cuts and few if any bulls. Brooks arrived and now there is some fish. So do you kill all the brookies waiting for cuts to magically appear. From the bow drainage > the athabaska drainage, there were no cuts or rainbows. Bulls exists in some waters. Whitefish in some waters.
You either fish for brookies in some areas or nothing. Cuts and rainbows are not native in the drainage but have been artificially introduced.

Regards,

don

x100
thank you d.a.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Well I hate to be the guy that mentions the TRUTH. But in some waters, there was never cuts and few if any bulls. Brooks arrived and now there is some fish. So do you kill all the brookies waiting for cuts to magically appear. From the Bow drainage > the Athabaska drainage, there were no cuts or rainbows. Bulls exists in some waters. Whitefish in some waters.
You either fish for brookies in some areas or nothing. Cuts and rainbows are not native in the drainage but have been artificially introduced.

regards,

Don

Don, read the report I linked earlier. You are not the first person to say this. The program developers said the same thing.

That's why the "Stewardship Licence" program is only on select sections of rivers.

[uplander]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Well I hate to be the guy that mentions the TRUTH. But in some waters, there was never cuts and few if any bulls. Brooks arrived and now there is some fish. So do you kill all the brookies waiting for cuts to magically appear. From the Bow drainage > the Athabaska drainage, there were no cuts or rainbows. Bulls exists in some waters. Whitefish in some waters.
You either fish for brookies in some areas or nothing. Cuts and rainbows are not native in the drainage but have been artificially introduced.

regards,

Don

Aren't athabows native to the athabasca drainage... And aren't there Cutts native to the Bow drainage correct me if I'm wrong but I get what your saying it's just that little part you said.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by uplander

Aren't athabows native to the athabasca drainage... And aren't there Cutts native to the Bow drainage correct me if I'm wrong but I get what your saying it's just that little part you said.

Athabows are native, and have had the daylights pounded out of them to near extinction in Alberta.

You can catch the same fish just across the B.C. border in the upper portions of the Peace Drainage. The fish are larger, and just as wild in temperment.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Well I hate to be the guy that mentions the TRUTH. But in some waters, there was never cuts and few if any bulls. Brooks arrived and now there is some fish. So do you kill all the brookies waiting for cuts to magically appear. From the Bow drainage > the Athabaska drainage, there were no cuts or rainbows. Bulls exists in some waters. Whitefish in some waters.
You either fish for brookies in some areas or nothing. Cuts and rainbows are not native in the drainage but have been artificially introduced.

regards,

Don

-sigh-

No Don, while some of your post is correct, your logic still fails, particularly on this:

"You either fish for brookies in some areas or nothing".

Absolutely false choice. Ram drainage is the perfect example:

No fish at all historically (in its middle-upper reaches). So you're saying you'd rather fish for dinky brooks than potentially large and easier to catch cutthroat trout? Should we begin a kill-every-cutt-program just because biologists did expand their range? That doesn't make much sense...

I see it as alot more palatable to expand a native species historical range than bringing in a species that was never ever here for past 11,000 years.

And, as the earlier poster very correctly pointed out, the program is targeting some streams where the historical fauna was cutt and bull.

I know you've kept careful records for 40 years, but that is still far later than the 'post-era' of "kill-every-fish-possible" mantra of the 19th century that decimated the original populations.

I know; we'll never see eye to eye on this. That's fine, but some of your facts are actually wrong. (Re; Athabasca rainbows and Bow drainage).

Smitty
P.S. Edit; let me clear; I love brookies. But why not focus stocking triploid brookies in closed systems like pothole lakes (which is far more closely aligned with Don's "brooks or nothing" approach) that would provide opportunities to catch "exotic" species and, bonus; they'll be larger too!

[Don Andersen]

But... But... wasn't I clear enough - between the Bow and the Athabaska there are NO NATIVE RAINBOWS AND CUTS.
For a lot of water, there is brookies and nothing else. The headwaters of Fallentimber, Little Red, Clearwater, Red Deer have no native cuts or rainbows. Killing all the brookies, no matter your mind set, will ultimately result in no fish @ all. Kinda silly!!
Killing all the brookies is just plain idiotic if nothing else can replace them. Frankly, this brookie rage is really silly. Hell, I found a brookie in the Crowsnest 20 years ago. Last I heard that was the last one found. You'd think from all the BS and hoopla that by now the Crow would be wall>wall with brookies. Such is not the case. Blaming brookies for the demise or reduction of other populations is just an excuse. A whole lot other influences are @ work. Bull Trout are migratory. Blowing a few dams up on the Bow system would do a lot more for their survival that any brook trout removal. But we do what we can, Remove brookies and magically the bulls will return.

As far as Slaughter Permits. SRD or it's for-runner F&W has done the slaughter permit thing on ducks, geese, elk amongst others. Last I looked, they're still here. Didn't work them - won't work now.

Don

[McLeod]

No doubt we need to remove or reduce Brook Trout numbers in some flowing waters.. But the campaign should not be KILL BROOK TROUT.
It should be geared towards promoting Native Species.
What will end up happening.. is people and there are many.. will develop the mind set that they should kill every Brook trout they catch everywhere in the province..further to that most of those people can't tell the difference between a Brook trout and a bull trout..... Careful watch you wish for......