Shop Supplies??!!

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Hunter65

So why does an out of province inspection need $15 in shop supplies? And why can't they just hide it in the bill?

When I was doing carpentry work, I sure as hell didn't charge for every nail, screw, chalk for the chalkline, utility knife blades, etc., it was built into the estimate or hourly rate.

Its a money grab.

Yes, it is.

To use your example, it would be like a carpenter charging for every time he sharpened his pencil, wear and tear on his broom for sweeping up, or charging for the Shop Vac bag in his vacuum when he sucked up the sawdust left behind.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

And again, it's not the mechanics, it is the bosses. My buddy irks for a shop in Lloydminster, gets $22.00 per hour plus $13.50 for every hour booked. He starts at 08:00, and says it is quite common practise to bill out from 6-11 hours in a 4 hour period. He charges out 3-4 x the amount of time he has actually worked, plus coffee breaks?

The mechanics will say "it is book rate as determined by the manufacturer, which is essentially a worst case scenario, but we are so good we can do it in a fraction of the time, you are paying for our expertise."

No, we are paying for the new vehicles, the holidays, the giant house, the boat, sleds, quads, fishing, hunting, etc for the owner of the shop.

I agree 100%.

If they don't charge by the hour - and they DON'T - they should not deceive everyone by claiming they do and by listing hours worked on an invoice as though they were actually hours worked. It's a lie.

As for being paid a premium for not being a dunce or a sloth (aka, "expertise") - gimme a break!

[sako1]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I just don't understand why we can't be charged for what we use. It is painfully obvious that shops don't want to add the shop supplies to the hourly rate because it would look bad. Charging someone 100/hr++ is already tough to swallow for the average guy, if it was 5-10% higher it would look even worse. So instead, tack it on at the end when the work is done.

You are right though, it doesn't matter, you are a necessary evil and the masses will have to pay no matter what. Charge more, it doesn't matter..

Every business has costs and fees that need to be paid ie electricity, equipment, gloves, towels, drinking water, lightbulbs etc etc. Funny that most businesses are able to figure it all into the price of the products they sell instead of tacking on a nice little grab when you get to the till.... hmmm double dip much??

When was the last time you bought tires?Look on the bottom of the invoice and check out the tire tax you paid.How about the last time you bought engine oil and a filter?Look for the disposal fee.How about when a guy orders somthing over the phone or internet and has to deal with shipping and handling?How about when you go buy a new quad or bike?That will be $8000 sir..plus assembly and a pdi..ect,ect
Its a fact of life,sit back and actually think about how many things out there DONT have everything added in from the start.

[sako1]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I agree 100%.

If they don't charge by the hour - and they DON'T - they should not deceive everyone by claiming they do and by listing hours worked on an invoice as though they were actually hours worked. It's a lie.

As for being paid a premium for not being a dunce or a sloth (aka, "expertise") - gimme a break!

It does work both ways Rocky.If we tell a customer it is $129 to diagnose their problem and it takes me a half hour they will get billed $129.But..if i have a day like i did today it took me 5.5 hours to make that $129,kinda sucks somtimes but it is reality,no matter how many people think otherwise.

[scrapper]

shop supplies, just the mechanics way of saying "bend over" back in the day it used to be included, then it was 2% then 5% now in some places it's 10% plus 2% for enviromental charges anything to screw over the client. Half the parts they charge for never make it to the vehicle and the ones that do you over pay for. Many shows like Market Place clearly show all the slimball scams that occur all the time at a mechanics shop. I never take my eye off the vehicle if possible many of these guys are just not trustworthy, hell there was a mechanic on here a couple weeks ago bragging about doing illegal work to day time running lights not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer....duh...... beware.

Having said that there are a few that buck the trend, they do good work for a fair price, they however are not likely the ones on here bragging about doing illegal work.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by sako1

When was the last time you bought tires?Look on the bottom of the invoice and check out the tire tax you paid.How about the last time you bought engine oil and a filter?Look for the disposal fee.How about when a guy orders somthing over the phone or internet and has to deal with shipping and handling?How about when you go buy a new quad or bike?That will be $8000 sir..plus assembly and a pdi..ect,ect
Its a fact of life,sit back and actually think about how many things out there DONT have everything added in from the start.

I was out, but you bring up a good point.

Tires- when I was doing collections for all the tire shops, I knew what exact cost is for them. Then when I worked for the distributor for 5 years, another update.

Want to know why tires are twice as much or more here compared to the USA? Because we are stupid enough to pay that much. Markup on many tires is 200-400%, absolutely ridiculous.

When you are told they are only making $20.00 per tire, it is not an outright lie, the head office may be putting the cost on the computer the salesman sees to only be a small margin, but the truth is they make a killing on us.

The last 8 tires I bought new were from the USA, shipped by courier and many hundreds of dollars cheaper.

Back to shop supplies- when the shop uses 6 pieces of paper towel, 2 squirts of liquid wrench and a shot of hand cleaner, why do they bill me for 4 rolls, a full can and a jug of fast orange?

[sako1]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

I was out, but you bring up a good point.

Tires- when I was doing collections for all the tire shops, I knew what exact cost is for them. Then when I worked for the distributor for 5 years, another update.

Want to know why tires are twice as much or more here compared to the USA? Because we are stupid enough to pay that much. Markup on many tires is 200-400%, absolutely ridiculous.

When you are told they are only making $20.00 per tire, it is not an outright lie, the head office may be putting the cost on the computer the salesman sees to only be a small margin, but the truth is they make a killing on us.

The last 8 tires I bought new were from the USA, shipped by courier and many hundreds of dollars cheaper.

Back to shop supplies- when the shop uses 6 pieces of paper towel, 2 squirts of liquid wrench and a shot of hand cleaner, why do they bill me for 4 rolls, a full can and a jug of fast orange?

I can totally understand why guys get upset at some of the charges incurred while fixing thier truck.I have never and nor would I ever think of charging 10% for shop supplies,that is riduculous.I stated earlier that we charge 2-2.5%.A $250 invoice would leave the customer with about a $6 charge.I think that is fair.Guys that are charging more are really giving us a bad name.On a side note every vehicle that rolls thru our doors gets washed and scrubbed.I guess its just another reason that 2.5% makes sense to me.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

I gave the barber who cut my hair a 5 dollar tip Saturday morning and gave the waitress a 6 dollar tip for my meal last night. How many people give the carpenter or mechanic who actually works on your vehicle a tip.

when my hairdresser/waitress starts making 30-40 bucks an hour I will stop tipping them. unless they own the place, they aint makin nowhere near 40 buck an hour without tips.

[Sledhead71]

In my business, I charge 5% shop supplies on labor only and it does not cover my annual cost on my small tools and supply account..

I have yet to meet the free tool / supply fairy who magically appears dropping supplies off at my business..

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

In my business, I charge 5% shop supplies on labor only and it does not cover my annual cost on my small tools and supply account..

I have yet to meet the free tool / supply fairy who magically appears dropping supplies off at my business..

So your business is losing money?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

In my business, I charge 5% shop supplies on labor only and it does not cover my annual cost on my small tools and supply account..

I have yet to meet the free tool / supply fairy who magically appears dropping supplies off at my business..

You don't claim your tools as a write off?

One thing no one has mentioned, is ALL shop supplies are written off, $100%, every nickel claimed and taken off the top at tax time plus charged back to the customer.

You will never catch a shop tossing receipts in the garbage.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

when my hairdresser/waitress starts making 30-40 bucks an hour I will stop tipping them. unless they own the place, they aint makin nowhere near 40 buck an hour without tips.

When my hairdresser or waitress makes me feel like I just got the proverbial screw in the ear I won't tip them either - even if they are only making $12/hr.

[canadiantdi]

Just saw this popular mechanics article called "Confessions of a car dealership service manager"

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...11261?click=pp

Here is an interesting part:



What's an example of a common tactic by dealers to pad the bill?


So-called shop supplies. That is, and always has been, the biggest crock of crap I've ever seen, and it's been going on for years! It is essentially similar to going to a nice restaurant, getting your check and finding you've been billed for napkins and silverware, which are necessary costs of the food service business. Shop supplies include, but are not limited to, shop rags, lubricants—this isn't the motor oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid and steering fluid they might put in your car—and the cost of disposing of used oil. These are just some of the necessary costs of doing the auto repair business. Some dealers do not charge for them, but most do, and what is considered shop supplies is at the discretion of each individual dealer. I've seen a customer get billed for $30 in shop supplies—on top of their estimate—for the use of three shop rags! For that price, I can buy 20 rolls of shop towels at Auto Zone.

[DiabeticKripple]

just a big cash grab. everything is nowadays.

[Vigilante]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You don't claim your tools as a write off?

One thing no one has mentioned, is ALL shop supplies are written off, $100%, every nickel claimed and taken off the top at tax time plus charged back to the customer.

You will never catch a shop tossing receipts in the garbage.

I see you obviously do not know much about Income tax.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Vigilante

I see you obviously do not know much about Income tax.

Lol!

Oh please, enlighten me!

I can not wait to hear this one!

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You don't claim your tools as a write off?

One thing no one has mentioned, is ALL shop supplies are written off, $100%, every nickel claimed and taken off the top at tax time plus charged back to the customer.

You will never catch a shop tossing receipts in the garbage.

No such thing as a write off Ken, it's called and expense and when your expenses are more than your profits, well we all no how that works..

Don't forget, you turn a profit on your so called cash grab, well the tax guy don't toss this out when you submit your quarterly payment either

I encourage all to grab a business licence, sign a lease and hang a sign in the front window indicating your open for business

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

No such thing as a write off Ken, it's called and expense and when your expenses are more than your profits, well we all no how that works..

Don't forget, you turn a profit on your so called cash grab, well the tax guy don't toss this out when you submit your quarterly payment either

I encourage all to grab a business licence, sign a lease and hang a sign in the front window indicating your open for business

I am familiar with expenses.

When your expenses are higher than your income you claim a shareholders dividend when you are in the black.

Shop supplies are absolutely reimbursed in that you deduct 100% of them as necessary supplies off the gross income, then bill the customer for them as well, and only pay a fraction of it back as income. Lol!

Any mechanic with more expenses than income has a very creative accountant, just bought out the partner, or is not a businessman.

[32-40win]

The enviro charges on tires and oil and filters are gov't fees, just like GST. water and air filters are exempted that fee. We get invoiced from the vendors on it. And it is not marked up. Maybe elsewhere, not our place at any rate.
I have no clue what they actually do with it, but I suspect it just goes to general revenues, give an MP an extra few bucks on their expense acct most likely.

[New Hunter Okotoks]

Customer brings his car into a shop at 09:00 and receives a call at 11:00 that it is all ready to go. He is billed for 4.5 hours of labour @$120/hour even though his vehicle has been worked on for less than 2 hours. His parts ad up to $400 even though the parts place delivered them for $225. The customer is also charged $9.00 for 0.5 litres of ATF, $9.00 for 0.5 litres of 5W20. Now to add insult to injury he is also charged an additional $28.95 for "Shop Supplies."

As far as I am concerned this is theft. Overbilling a customer by more than 100% is nothing less than theft. This is not rounding it up to the nearest 1/4 hour here. This particular customer would have been bilked for $300 on the labour alone.

Earlier in the thread someone stated an $8000 repair also brought with it a $100 "Shop Supplies" charge. That's alot of locktite and rags. I'm sure that guy felt nickel and dimed.

I understand that rags, locktite , grease etc. etc. costs money. Is that not what the $120/hour cost is all about?

McDonalds's doesn't tack on a "Paper Consumables" charge of 5% onto your bill. They sure as sh&$ don't tell you about it after you've eaten the food and can't do anything about it.

How about you go to a timed wash bay and started washing your truck thinking the cost was $2.00/minute. You finish washing your truck and go to pay your bill after 20 minutes thinking the bill should be $40.00. Nope..... $245. The reason: It's not their fault you washed your Dodge Ram in 20 minutes. The book says that truck should take 90 minutes to wash. Plus the Soap was $30 and the Water surcharge was about $20 because it doesn't pay for itself you know. And then tax all of it to finish the bill nicely. I think the Car wash owner is entitled to feed his family don't you?

[BCSteel]

Originally Posted by sako1

It does work both ways Rocky.If we tell a customer it is $129 to diagnose their problem and it takes me a half hour they will get billed $129.But..if i have a day like i did today it took me 5.5 hours to make that $129,kinda sucks somtimes but it is reality,no matter how many people think otherwise.

This right here is what will make me stick to one mechanic for eternity. When the price is agreed upon regardless of what happens. If I end up paying $500/hr because the job went entirely smooth with nothing to bugger it up, I dont care, because I was ok with the price to begin with. If the shop ends up making $30/hr because the work was so buggered up but they stick to their price it shows honesty and integrity.

The absolute worst part of moving here from BC was losing the shop that I took my vehicles too. I still dont have a shop out here and I'm dreading the day when I will need to bring one of the vehicles in for some kind of work :/