possible reasons behind High River grab

[twofifty]

Thanks for the compliment.

Yeah, sure we can dream up all kinds of possible motives.
The idea is to examine and weigh them in the political, legal, human/aspirational and situational context of what happened.

For example, what Oko advances is that the human aspirations of the senior officers involved were the prime motive. That seems plausible to me.

[Sneeze]

Wasn't it Doug Griffiths who basically said why they did it?

You guys are reading this too deep.

RCMP didn't want people sneaking back into their homes and being able to use their guns as leverage to stay there.

Simple.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Thanks for the compliment.
Yeah, sure we can dream up all kinds of possible motives.
The idea is to examine and weigh them in the political, legal, human/aspirational and situational context of what happened.
For example, what Oko advances is that the human aspirations of the senior officers involved were the prime motive. That seems plausible to me.

Based on what real supporting evidence? Its all conjecture it seems.

Anyways, I didnt mean to start an internet peeing contest.

[roper1]

It certainly appears that they HAVE a copy of the LGR. Some form of gun counting seemed to be the end game. Having the LGR meant that someone/somewhere had some contingency plans on how to utilize the nice little illegal document in their possession. It is a stretch to me that the flood response was off-the-cuff by local RCMP. The locals were replaced by imports so those actions required some pre-planning. That is why it seems the RCMP disregard for personal property runs so deep. The response was planned, they just needed the situation. This did not happen in Calgary, where the police are much more accountable to the citizens, or so it appears. Certainly the CPS were aware of what was happening in HR real time, so if it truly was the stolen/looted firearm used in a crime excuse, CPS would have egg on their faces because they did not confiscate, much less illegal search. Hard to imagine RCMP ever recovering credibility.

[hunterjon]

Why did "Brendan's dad" get suspended?

[twofifty]

No idea. I just checked all the posts he made today and it all seems good.

[greylynx]

We have to go to our Members of Parliament and start making a stink.

Yapping on this forum is not going to get us any where.

In addition to the "smoking meat" sticky thread which is very important for all of us, could the board of AO also develop a Sticky where one would be able to send a simple message to their MP or MLA?

Just wondering

[hunterjon]

This is for the mods, sorry for the temporary highhjack, but with all the stuff spewed onto this forum daily, a lot of which should be deleted, is a guy having a rather civil back and forth, suspended? I want to know, where are we drawing the line?

Originally Posted by hunterjon

Why did "Brendan's dad" get suspended?

[bison]

I doubt if we ever get to hear the real motive behind it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hunterjon

Why did "Brendan's dad" get suspended?

Posts that are considered offensive, and that result in people being suspended or banned are sometimes deleted, so you may not always be able to determine the reason, just by looking at the person's remaining posts.

I doubt if we ever get to hear the real motive behind it.

Most likely, we will never be told, because if the parties responsible ever admit the real motive, they would be incriminating themselves.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Let's admit it, the government agencies want to control us, motivation for just about anything they do.

Grizz

^^^this^^^

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Most everything happens for a reason, especially when people are involved.

If what I propose is 'tinhattery', what alternative reasons would you propose?

I propose that the "Gun grab" was an excuse for Joe Blow cop to break into houses and take valuables. In many cases, at least in Slave Lake, where there were two safes in the house, the gun safe was left untouched. In houses with no guns, safes that looked nothing like gun safes were broken into. The guns were just an excuse to beak into houses looking for valuables as well break open safes and "lose" the contents.

After experiencing a few evacuations firsthand I firmly believe that a disaster situation, to police and other emergency workers, is the equivalent to what shutting down a facility is to a tradesman. In both cases its just a given understanding that a lot of stuff is going to be stolen by opportunists with low morals, it runs so rampant that very little attempt is made from higher up to curb it. Possibly a slap on the wrist or a general memo if things go a little too far and it hits the news, like in High River. If your town is ever evacuated act accordingly.

[densa44]

As my father said, who worked for "his and her majesties" never impute planning where incompetence will predict the phenomena equally well.

If you look around, you'll find all kinds of stupid things the governments do, they don't need a sinister motive.

However after it happens, the members comments may obtain.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

The "Darwin Awards" are given out for acts of stupidy. What's your understanding? I did give the guy the opportunitty to say it was a joke.

More accurately, Darwin Awards are assigned to people who died as a result of their own stupidity, thus allowing for a connection to evolution & improvement of the species. Another aspect is that the person either had no offspring, or the offspring also perished in the same event in order to maintain that their stupidity has not passed on through genetics. Honorable mention Darwin's can be given to those who survived their stupidity, but were sterilized in the process.

While there were deaths in High River, they weren't related to the gun grab, nor were they the gun grabbers who died.

[Stu321]

Not that I agree with it but I noticed no one had mentioned the motive of seeing what happened in New Orleans and over reacting to that. There were guns stolen from houses and used in crimes. I do understand that was a VERY different situation in a very different place.

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

I propose that the "Gun grab" was an excuse for Joe Blow cop to break into houses and take valuables. In many cases, at least in Slave Lake, where there were two safes in the house, the gun safe was left untouched. In houses with no guns, safes that looked nothing like gun safes were broken into. The guns were just an excuse to beak into houses looking for valuables as well break open safes and "lose" the contents.

After experiencing a few evacuations firsthand I firmly believe that a disaster situation, to police and other emergency workers, is the equivalent to what shutting down a facility is to a tradesman. In both cases its just a given understanding that a lot of stuff is going to be stolen by opportunists with low morals, it runs so rampant that very little attempt is made from higher up to curb it. Possibly a slap on the wrist or a general memo if things go a little too far and it hits the news, like in High River. If your town is ever evacuated act accordingly.

both this and twofifity's OP seem very plausible to me.

Untested hypothesis, but very plausible.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Wasn't it Doug Griffiths who basically said why they did it?

You guys are reading this too deep.

RCMP didn't want people sneaking back into their homes and being able to use their guns as leverage to stay there.

Simple.

X2 Alot of people were very angry and frustrated about not being allowed back into their homes and all it took was one really angry guy to threaten the RCMP, and out came the spike belts. One thing that was made clear is that the gun registry info. that was said to have been destroyed was used by the RCMP to go to specific houses (more then once on some occasions) to round up firearms.

Or maybe they needed the extra time to locate and recover the alien space ship that had crashed there in the past, but it took a little longer then they thought because it was only the size of a rifle case. Makes as much sense as OP's theory, since we are just kicking theory's around.

[elkhunter11]

It really doesn't matter why the RCMP did what they did, the bottom line is that any person that violated any laws while doing it, needs to be fired , and criminal charges need to result. Unfortunately, the RCMP has had over a year and a half to get their lies in order, and to get rid of any incriminating evidence that may have existed.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Wasn't it Doug Griffiths who basically said why they did it?

You guys are reading this too deep.

RCMP didn't want people sneaking back into their homes and being able to use their guns as leverage to stay there.

Simple.

Stupid reason, if I was going to muscle my way back home I would simply purchase a new gun BEFORE heading back. Like (as in I didn't consider doing this at the time) most people who would even ponder this course of action however, my guns were packed in my truck and ready to go hours prior to the evacuation. Very poor excuse to say the least.

All I know is that if they ever try to evacuate Slave Lake again they will have a real problem on their hands, more than likely this will be a problem in other communities as well. As a result of people not trusting the authorities to respect their belongings, and evacuating when they should, there will be a high possibility of increased injury and/or casualties in future disasters as a direct result of the actions of the RCMP.

[sask]

Massive Cluster F#### , emergency with a bunch of incompetent , stupid people at various levels of government in charge ; coupled with an attitude of arrogance and disrespect for people's property, rights and dignity by the RCMP .

Followed by arrogance and disrespect by the RCMP in respect of the manner in which they have dealt it since . Oh yeah also lack of honesty and integrity by the RCMP.

Now its CYA by everyone

[Sneeze]

There are some very active AO members who are RCMP.

I wonder why they avoid these threads? It seems they could shed some bright light on our understanding of the situation.

I keep getting told not to lump all RCMP into a big bad group - so why are these guys not speaking out (and lumping themselves into the bad group)?

[ctd]

Why would a RCMP comment on a forum post that is out for blood.
Nobody here (98%) want the truth anyways. All they want to hear is how the RCMP are big bad people and they all should be fired and we create an Alberta Police Force.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by ctd

Why would a RCMP comment on a forum post that is out for blood.
Nobody here (98%) want the truth anyways. All they want to hear is how the RCMP are big bad people and they all should be fired and we create an Alberta Police Force.

I'd like to see you say that after coming through an experience like that of the residents of High River and Slave Lake Things look a little different from the other side of the fence.

[wwbirds]

I wonder why they avoid these threads? It seems they could shed some bright light on our understanding of the situation.

Because they are smart enough not to get involved.
Like most government agencies they have paid members who act as spokespersons for their department (public or media relations). Unless they are authorized to speak on behalf of the department they dont and wont under threat of discipline measures they would be subject to. If they have personal knowledge of the events they are not allowed to offer facts as they have a confidentiallity factor to discuss matters only on a "need to know" basis so cant even discuss cases with family members . If they dont have personal knowledge they are only offering an opinion which once again would be frowned upon unless authorized.
there is no upside to getting involved on a forum! Danged if you do and also danged if you dont.

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

there is no upside to getting involved on a forum! Danged if you do and also danged if you dont.

I get ya.

But, what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

If they insist on speaking as one voice, I will continue treating them as one voice.

[twofifty]

The thread is slipping from examining what higher level motives or reasons(and that could be above the RCMP senior brass at HQ) may have played a role in what happened in HR and Slave Lake.

Let's not degenerate into the nitty gritty of what happened and stick to the possible underlying reasons as to why it happened. This is not the thread in which to call the RCMP who were on the ground stupid and incompetent.

Thank you

[wwbirds]

As the old saying goes better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone presume you are a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
When I was with certain departments and attended court, reporters would often ask what I thought of the verdict. Not my job to give opinions on court decisions so I referred them to the public relations officer.
When I was president of Sudbury Fish and Game I got phone calls from the local media on contraversial issues from time to time and learned quickly to only give written answers to written questions so as not to be misquoted or taken out of context. Some people interpret remarks differently so everyone in public service is very careful about what if anything they say.
Met lots of great RCMP officers both when I was working and after hours and unfortunately part of their job is dealing with public opinion about their force.
When was the last time you heard anything good about a civil servant.

[sask]

Originally Posted by ctd

Why would a RCMP comment on a forum post that is out for blood.
Nobody here (98%) want the truth anyways. All they want to hear is how the RCMP are big bad people and they all should be fired and we create an Alberta Police Force.

Bull ****

[sask]

Originally Posted by twofifty

This is not the thread in which to call the RCMP who were on the ground stupid and incompetent.

Thank you

This is part of the reason it happened. And it wasn't the RCMP as much as the OTHER people in charge that were stupid and incompetent.

The RCMP were arrogant and disrespectful.

The combination of those factors was why it was ordered and carried out.

You asked why

[twofifty]

Certainly plausible.