Need to stop the fish slaughter.

[Raptor]

I think its time that F&W stop releasing dates and locations where they are stocking fish. Took a drive to Mount Lorette ponds today just to walk around, and not one fish was swimming around. its very sad to me. This used to be a great pond to bring my kids when they were little and let them experience catching a fish or two. Too many people have abused this pond in particular and even with two as a limit, it makes you wonder how this pond got cleaned out. As someone who has witnessed poaching and reported it, doesn't seem to matter.

I myself as an avid fisherman do not need to know where the fish were stocked. The answer to me is catch and release only in these types of ponds so as to let the kids learn and enjoy. The second thought is to not release info on release dates. Maybe having to drive to find out if the pond is stocked or not may deter some who just wait for the date and then fish it out as there own fish market.

What do other members think the solution is?

[lastlatvian]

I went to that pond a day after they reported stocking it (wasn't fishing but finished a hike in k country) and could not see a single fish. This pond is so clear and shallow I have my suspensions if it was even stocked. If it was then someone is catching 500 ish fish illegally.

[pikeman06]

Just chiming in from central alberta. She was a rough winter and pretty sure alot of our ponds winter killed. ..same thing here. If they stocked these ponds I usually fish there sure isn't much sign of life. On a nice mid July night like tonite after a rain the day before these ponds should look like a washing machine with rising trout. They don't.

[smitty9]

The problem isn't the information, the problem is lack of enforcement. The problem is that our province has 4M people and a distinct lack of fishing opportunities and water - when compared with other provinces.

As for Mount Lorette, I've heard this complaint for years. Gets fished out pretty quickly. My solution? Set aside poaching and enforcement issues for the moment, and do this:

Stock it multiple times in the summer. I've never been there, but I have heard it's a great kids pond and accessible to those with disabilities.

Mystery to me why they just don't stock it 3x a summer. Sounds like a great way to promote fishing to the public!

[Marty S]

Twenty five years ago they stocked waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more fish.

Now, much increased population, and stocking 1/5 of the fish. Makes no sense, I believe it is the work of the C&R cult brainwashing the govt.

[CMichaud]

I thought I heard that the stocking program was reduced partially in response to whirling disease fears?

Having said this, the bite has been incredibly slow where I go for the last couple of weeks. I frequent three ponds and they are all the same.

I agree that some of the ponds did winter kill (saw the evidence at one of the ponds when the ice came off)

I C&R but see nothing wrong with people keeping the odd fish. I do think the limit should be reduced to one or two vs five a day. FWIW, I do not think I have ever seen a F&W presence at any of these ponds.

[Outdoorfanatic]

To clarify the limit on stocked trout is not 5/day its 5 including whats in the freezer at home. And the purpose of these stocked lakes is and has always been "a put and take fishery". The purpose being to relieve pressure on the Native fish. And most of these ponds are not big enough to have a sustainable reproducing fishery year to year. Aeration, predation, lack of adequate spawning areas, whirling disease etc all make it very challenging to manage these fisheries as sustainable and reproducing naturally. I think more stocking, more tag allocations not only numbers per lake but also include more lakes in the tag allocation system this will spread the pressure, maybe for the stocked lakes allow for the angling and retaining of the other species such as perch and pike this will allow the trout fishery to remain pure, how about have a program that addresses the invasive cormorant issue, how about allow parents and kids to collectively fish of off one another's tags for walleye as long as all members are in the boat, Or how about renew the spring whitefish season or increase the poecession limit on whitefish after all commercial nets have been gone along time and every year certain lakes have summer kill on jumbo whitefish anyway. Bottom line is we need too create more choice for anglers of all ages by doing so the angling pressure will become less concentrated. Good example is many places in Europe have less water than even that of Slave Lake and more anglers than all of Alberta, plus commercial netting, plus they consider it a crime to release fish on the basis that fishing for any other reason other than food is cruelty to the fish.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

I thought I heard that the stocking program was reduced partially in response to whirling disease fears?

I C&R but see nothing wrong with people keeping the odd fish. I do think the limit should be reduced to one or two vs five a day. FWIW, I do not think I have ever seen a F&W presence at any of these ponds.

You're right, from the info I heard, the stocking program was curtailed sharply until AEP was going to devise a plan to deal with whirling disease. The presence of disease was found at one of the hatcheries I believe. It's a tough time right now for the Alberta stocking program.

I am happy to have put and take lakes for people that want to eat fish. If the AEP is going to make the majority of ES1, ES2, ES3, ES4 de facto catch and release in our flowing waters, I am happy to see the retention pressure focused on put and take lakes.

As for myself, I have seen more officers in the field the last 3 years than the previous 10 combined.

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

To clarify the limit on stocked trout is not 5/day its 5 including whats in the freezer at home. And the purpose of these stocked lakes is and has always been "a put and take fishery". The purpose being to relieve pressure on the Native fish. And most of these ponds are not big enough to have a sustainable reproducing fishery year to year. Aeration, predation, lack of adequate spawning areas, whirling disease etc all make it very challenging to manage these fisheries as sustainable and reproducing naturally. I think more stocking, more tag allocations not only numbers per lake but also include more lakes in the tag allocation system this will spread the pressure, maybe for the stocked lakes allow for the angling and retaining of the other species such as perch and pike this will allow the trout fishery to remain pure, how about have a program that addresses the invasive cormorant issue, how about allow parents and kids to collectively fish of off one another's tags for walleye as long as all members are in the boat, Or how about renew the spring whitefish season or increase the poecession limit on whitefish after all commercial nets have been gone along time and every year certain lakes have summer kill on jumbo whitefish anyway. Bottom line is we need too create more choice for anglers of all ages by doing so the angling pressure will become less concentrated. Good example is many places in Europe have less water than even that of Slave Lake and more anglers than all of Alberta, plus commercial netting, plus they consider it a crime to release fish on the basis that fishing for any other reason other than food is cruelty to the fish.

The "fish at home in the freezer" has always been interesting to me. The reg is basically there to bust poaching rings, as I'm sure most of us agree, not a single person has ever been spot checked in their home randomly!

FYI, the AEP fisheries management objectives when it comes to put and take rainbow trout lakes is to not promote natural reproduction. It's a non starter really. The population is sustained only through retention limits and re-stocking.

Not sure what you mean by "allow the trout fishery to remain pure"? Are you referring to genetics? Again, a variety of strains of rainbow trout are used, both diploid and triploid. Not sure what you're getting at here. Are you also advocating a tag system for put and take rainbow trout fisheries? I personally - just my opinion - would never agree to that. The way to manage put and take rainbow lakes is to manage the retention limits and stocking numbers. You can't have a cash grab tag system for an artificial fishery! And it would be a cash grab, whereas the tag system for walleye is the only compromise available for lake stocks facing enormous pressure from the angling public to keep fish.

There was never a spring whitefish season for lake whitefish. There used to be an earlier opening date for all pike-walleye-perch-lk whitefish lakes, but now there are spring closures to protect 3 out of those 4 species that spawn in the spring (not that I agree with that; I think instead, all lakes should be open year round, with certain times being a 0 limit, again just my perspective).

I see what you're getting at, and in principle I agree; we have to balance off keeping many and a variety of angling opportunities open while trying to protect fish stocks. As with all gov't bureaucracies, the AEP gets it right on some issues, and others need work.

Good fishing,
Smitty

[HBCSquared]

Originally Posted by smitty9

The "fish at home in the freezer" has always been interesting to me. The reg is basically there to bust poaching rings, as I'm sure most of us agree, not a single person has ever been spot checked in their home randomly!


Smitty

There was a story from Dewitts pond near my house a few years ago where a older gentleman would show up on a peddle bike and take 5 and go home only to show up a few hours later to take another 5. Somone took video and the rumor is F&W showed up and watched it happen went to his house and he has 100's in the freezer.

[Outdoorfanatic]

What I was referring to is the reg that disallows taking illegally stocked fished from a trout lake. Biologist say that perch illegally stocked in a trout pond will reproduce and will out compete the trout for food and habitat. So then someone puts in pike to get rid of the perch, however they also get rid of the trout. Yet it is illegal to keep a perch or pike that aren't supposed to be in the trout pond. Why not allow people the extra fishing opportunity and at the same time keep the pond exclusive to a trout fishery. Cow lake used to be a trout lake until perch where illegally stocked and then to manage the perch pike followed and now all there is is pike.

And no I'm not advocating tags on a put and take fishery. I'm suggesting that offering greater freedom on walleye tags where family groups ie: dad and kids or grandpa and grandkids or even friends kids are concerned would allow more opportunities to kids which is what the original post was concerned with. Example if dad drew tags and kids drew tags and grandpa drew tags as long as all those folks where fishing together why not allow the kids to hook and land and keep 8or9 out 10 of those fish. Who really cares what hook what fish bit or who tagged what, as long as all those people are together and all the fish that left the lake had a legal tag. Not to mention the fact that biologist arbitrarily pick hook mortality rates and a lot an automatic 25%/year reduction in walleye tags year over year from one net index to the next. This formula is ridiculous.

And we used to be able fish for whitefish in April at Pigeon Lake.

The point is if we create more opportunities the fishing pressure will spread out the kids will gain a greater variety of experiences and individual lakes will see less overall pressure. However the current policy is to intensify the regs so it becomes more predictable where anglers will focus time and effort. This makes it easier for the C.Os to concentrate their efforts and fill ticket quotas.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I think its time that F&W stop releasing dates and locations where they are stocking fish. Took a drive to Mount Lorette ponds today just to walk around, and not one fish was swimming around. its very sad to me. This used to be a great pond to bring my kids when they were little and let them experience catching a fish or two. Too many people have abused this pond in particular and even with two as a limit, it makes you wonder how this pond got cleaned out. As someone who has witnessed poaching and reported it, doesn't seem to matter.

I myself as an avid fisherman do not need to know where the fish were stocked. The answer to me is catch and release only in these types of ponds so as to let the kids learn and enjoy. The second thought is to not release info on release dates. Maybe having to drive to find out if the pond is stocked or not may deter some who just wait for the date and then fish it out as there own fish market.

What do other members think the solution is?

Leave put and take fisheries as they are. If the numbers of fish are down it is most likely a stocking/enforcement problem so put more time and dollars into those.

[ssyd]

Don't they just stock fingerlings? It's not that there's no fish left it's that they have to grow before you can catch them. I don't doubt that last years stock get fished out though. Like Marty said, population is increasing but stocking rates are decreasing.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by ssyd

Don't they just stock fingerlings? It's not that there's no fish left it's that they have to grow before you can catch them. I don't doubt that last years stock get fished out though. Like Marty said, population is increasing but stocking rates are decreasing.

No. A person should check stocking reports before making assumptions.

[smitty9]

Well, I never heard of some exclusive whitefish season in April at Pigeon (what you're implying?) The lake did use to be open to all species fishing during the spring, but again, that was common for many lakes.

Cow lake historically was a pike / perch lake. There are still perch there, from what I've heard. For awhile they did dump brood rainbows as well (too big for pike) but I don't think they do that anymore. But, before there were rainbows, it was pike and perch (I'm talking before the 1950"s).

Actually, a good portion of so-called "pothole" lakes that we count on for rainbow trout fishing weren't - contrary to common belief - "barren" before trout came along. More than a few - Cow and Hasse come to mind - were pike / perch fisheries. My understanding is that the bios in the 50's / 60's / 70's would wait for a severe winter kill and then stock trout. Rotenone was considered as well.

Most "infested" trout lakes are only infested with perch. Few have pike as well. It's not ideal by any stretch, but you can have a fishery with trout and perch. But it's not great by any means...

I agree with you about tags, some flexibility would be a good thing. Bios and CO's could adopt the view of tags per boat instead of per angler when in comes to the on-the-water experience.

[wildbill]

Originally Posted by Marty S

Twenty five years ago they stocked waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more fish.

Now, much increased population, and stocking 1/5 of the fish. Makes no sense, I believe it is the work of the C&R cult brainwashing the govt.

And........have you seen the influx of park wardens this year?
Off the charts!
They don’t seem to be overly sharp, but apparently we need them patrol all these new parks, gotta keep them city slickers happy ya know?
Shut down fisheries, more people fishin, less fish stocked, man we got some certifiable geniuses at the helm now, good lord!