When is a Rifle a Shotgun?

[bergman]

I think if you could demonstrate that your Snider had similar ballistics to the average shotgun you might have a case.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by bergman

I think if you could demonstrate that your Snider had similar ballistics to the average shotgun you might have a case.

ballistics are not used in defining types of firearms, just what is a firearm (500fps).

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by bergman

I think if you could demonstrate that your Snider had similar ballistics to the average shotgun you might have a case.

That's no problem at all to prove, but as Walking Buffalo stated, that is not the criteria.
Many of the shotguns and slugs made these days are far superior to a replica or original Plains or Pennsylvania rifle let alone a snider !
Cat

[bergman]

Well, then I would have to say the best criteria is what the firearm was created as, and what type of shell it shoots. Our laws are basically arbitrary, and what you call a thing matters, as does what it is marketed as. Case in point: Ruger Bx-25 clips for the 10/22 being banned after they were advertised (on the packaging) as being compatible with Ruger's rifley-looking pistol line (and 25 rounds in any pistol is not allowed here), when every Ruger owner knows that the other aftermarket 25 round clips were also compatible but not advertised as such.

So, marketing dictates the legality of a firearm or accessory in Canada. I guess I shouldn't have ever thought otherwise, with all the 'black' guns being restricted because they look scary, while a Remington 740 does not. Beware the boogyman!

If the Snider was sold as a rifle -even way back in the day- you, my friend are SOL. Buy yourself a new shotgun with a rifled barrel and some sabots with the money you would otherwise waste on a legal defense.

[bergman]

Like the above post where WB "asked a couple of firearm lawyers about the provincial/federal legal definition of "shotgun" and "rifle", and received duplicate answers. Neither could provide a legal definition, and both said if money wasn't an issue this would make an interesting case.... "

An "interesting case" for a lawyer is one where the lawyer makes lots and lots of money.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by bergman

Well, then I would have to say the best criteria is what the firearm was created as, and what type of shell it shoots. Our laws are basically arbitrary, and what you call a thing matters, as does what it is marketed as. Case in point: Ruger Bx-25 clips for the 10/22 being banned after they were advertised (on the packaging) as being compatible with Ruger's rifley-looking pistol line (and 25 rounds in any pistol is not allowed here), when every Ruger owner knows that the other aftermarket 25 round clips were also compatible but not advertised as such.

So, marketing dictates the legality of a firearm or accessory in Canada. I guess I shouldn't have ever thought otherwise, with all the 'black' guns being restricted because they look scary, while a Remington 740 does not. Beware the boogyman!

If the Snider was sold as a rifle -even way back in the day- you, my friend are SOL. Buy yourself a new shotgun with a rifled barrel and some sabots with the money you would otherwise waste on a legal defense.

The gun was also used for shot and I have original snider shot shells as well.
I do not have to buy a new shotgun , I own "several" , and I don't hunt with pump guns, I don't roll that way.
My legal defense is not in question, the fact that we are comparing the Snider to the Savage or an Encore with fully rifled barrels and scopes with is anything BUT a shotgun IMO, is , however.
Cat

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by bergman

Like the above post where WB "asked a couple of firearm lawyers about the provincial/federal legal definition of "shotgun" and "rifle", and received duplicate answers. Neither could provide a legal definition, and both said if money wasn't an issue this would make an interesting case.... "

An "interesting case" for a lawyer is one where the lawyer makes lots and lots of money.

I wouldn't be paying for a legal defence if it came to that, which it won't.
The fact that my original ammo is shot and ,Marked "57 Snider" has some merit.
Cat

[bergman]

Well, hey, if it was sold for shooting shot, then go for it. Especially if you can get hold of an old advertisment or something to shut down any unsure F&W officers before they pull out their citation notepads. Let us know how it goes!

[catnthehat]

For sure!
Cat

[Snowdog]

I'm sure it is fraught with other issues but I would use the ammunition manufacturers label either rife cartridge or shotgun shell, the projectile is what is doing the killing, the gun firing it is semantics as we have proved in this thread.

My Mossberg 535 12ga pump, has a rifled bore, 1.5-4x scope and shoots Hornady ballistic tip sabots at 2000fps. I took it to the Edmonton F&W office the day I bought it to check with them, they are fully aware of this issue and agree it is a grey area but my 535 was a shotgun as far as they were concerned and good to use in 248. Last summer I was sighting in with my neighbour, me with the 535 him with his TC encore .50, at 200yd I had a 2.5in group he couldn't even hit the paper (he thinks there is something wrong with it, I'm not a muzzy guy so I don't know).

[/attach]https://plus.google.com/photos/107479341244879901881/albums/5990088419060613969?authkey=CO-At4PX3fCnFQ[/attach]

[Snowdog]

try that again







The shells in the stock holster are Remington Sabots, you can get the exact same .50cal sabot for your muzzleloader.

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I would also dispute that compound bows are strictly muscle-powered in the same sense as the other wearpons. Cams are a mechanical draw assist that allow the bow to deliver more power than the shooter could probably draw and hold on their own, are they not?

They are not quite what you're thinking here Sir. There is no mechanical draw assist in a compound bow. There is a mechanical weight reduction at full draw which allows for ease of aim via mechanical sights and to increase the amont of time the Archer can hold the bow at full draw before releasing the arrow or canceling the draw. It allows Archers more time for a shot and a more relaxed way of using modern Archery sights.

For example -

70 pound compound bow with 80% let off requires 70 pounds to be brought to full draw at which point the weight required to hold the bow at such is reduced to 14 pounds. When the Archer pulls the bow's string back all the way the compound bow system decreases the amount of weight by a given percentage allowing the Archer to hold less weight at full draw. Hence providing more time to aim with a sight or to wait for a better shot to present itself on target.

Now for my take on the original question - Anything could be anything else if enough people believe it so, I suppose... Yet I say a Rifle is a Rifle and a Shotgun is a Shotgun!

In Short - I personally view smoothbore guns as a minicanon aka shotgun and shoulder-fired guns with rifling in their barrels as Rifles. One of my favourite things about Hunting in Alberta is that we are mostly free to use what we have and/or see fit to use for most all Hunting that is Provincially regulated. I hope that shall always be the case! More freedom, not less please.

In the case of areas such as Strathcona county - "shorter range projectile" would be a more apt term than "primitive weapon" in my mind. So let the Rifle folks come on down with their pistol calibre carbines!

It is common knowledge that "Shotguns" with rifled barrels came about as a work-around for Hunters in areas within the U.S. market that disallow centrefire Rifles for use on Big Game (primarily Whitetail Deer) via State Hunting Regulations. Despite such strange and dubious beginnings, they are quite interesting (and valid) devices.

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

When my rifles are shooting poorly (yes the rifle....not me) they are shotguns....you should see the spray pattern on some of my targets!

LC

Lol most excellent lefty

[walking buffalo]

Late season is almost here....

WTH?

[3blade]