It's official, AFGA supports the ban on Spear Hunting.

[nekred]

The problem is optics and wording, years ago I called for a definition of legal hunting equipment to be defined. It is in every other province but this one because no one wanted to ban another's choice.

I get that we want to stick together as hunters but when you define what you CAN use instead of what you CAN'T use the result is the same just the optics are better...

Then if your choice of hunting tool is not available you can lobby to get it added just how archery and muzzle loaders were added.... along with acceptable measurable guidelines as there is for archery, muzzle loader, crossbow, and rifle.

Now you could add atlatl, or spear with minimum projectile weights and cutting diameters.

But the AFGA and Alberta Government's hand s forced BECAUSE THEY DODGED THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS and now because nobody wants a to hold all or part of the media bag they have to "BAN" the tool....

In other provinces they define what is legal to use and thus there is no gray area.

[Speckle55]

I disagree with his statements and position

Our club doesn't belong too AFGA (500-750 members)

Anti hunting will remain just that ..special interest group that kill with every step n breath or driving .. every thing is living ... ironic

we as a group need too do more education ads etc .. inform public with positive info!!!

David
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._North_America

https://www.facebook.com/kayla.neviu...2846830267657/

[6mm rem]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Can folks be a member of SPFGA without being a member of AFGA?

LC

Im interested as well

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by nekred

The problem is optics and wording, years ago I called for a definition of legal hunting equipment to be defined. It is in every other province but this one because no one wanted to ban another's choice.

I get that we want to stick together as hunters but when you define what you CAN use instead of what you CAN'T use the result is the same just the optics are better...

Then if your choice of hunting tool is not available you can lobby to get it added just how archery and muzzle loaders were added.... along with acceptable measurable guidelines as there is for archery, muzzle loader, crossbow, and rifle.

Now you could add atlatl, or spear with minimum projectile weights and cutting diameters.

But the AFGA and Alberta Government's hand s forced BECAUSE THEY DODGED THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS and now because nobody wants a to hold all or part of the media bag they have to "BAN" the tool....

In other provinces they define what is legal to use and thus there is no gray area.

In this world of social media and billions of texts everyday, wording is very important. Often how you say something is more important than the words.

Language is always changing. Words don't seem to mean the same thing these days.

Discriminating , used to be an admirable trait.

Is it a firearm or weapon?

What's a hoe? Crack, joint?

Primitive weapon- big horrible spear.

AR 15, carbine or assault rifle?

I agree it would be better to list what can be used.

[Slash8]

Weak! I think every sportsman in Albert just took a knife in the back with that AFGA statement.
I fully agree with Lefty-Canuck's statement
"I disagree with the AFGA in supporting a ban...I think this could have been an opportunity to educate people on hunting and that we want to have a set of guidelines for all tools used in hunting".

[diamond k]

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

I think the point the were trying to make is that the general public must be at a minimum apathetic to the method of harvest. While anti hunters may never be supportive they are still in the minority. The majority is made up of the general public which in many instances have not taken a stand either for or against hunting as a recreational pastime. If the general public becomes opposed to hunting or are swayed in that direction then in a democracy it is likely that more sweeping changes will occur and hunting will become a thing of the past. Like it or not the general public holds the future of sport hunting in their hands, as we live in a democracy and if the majority turns on hunting as a recreational pastime or conservation management tool it is likely that the politicians will make changes.

Very well stated

You can all get on the top of every hill and scream about how it is you god given right to hunt and anti hunters be damned but the future of hunting in indeed with general population and the elected representatives. The only way hunting goes away is if we choose to destroy it from the inside. Keep posting stupid videos, trespassing and poaching and watch it fall. Use respect, consider optics of what your doing and remember that each of your actions will determine the future and hunting will always be a part of our lives.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by nekred

The problem is optics and wording, years ago I called for a definition of legal hunting equipment to be defined. It is in every other province but this one because no one wanted to ban another's choice.

I get that we want to stick together as hunters but when you define what you CAN use instead of what you CAN'T use the result is the same just the optics are better...

Then if your choice of hunting tool is not available you can lobby to get it added just how archery and muzzle loaders were added.... along with acceptable measurable guidelines as there is for archery, muzzle loader, crossbow, and rifle.

Now you could add atlatl, or spear with minimum projectile weights and cutting diameters.

But the AFGA and Alberta Government's hand s forced BECAUSE THEY DODGED THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS and now because nobody wants a to hold all or part of the media bag of "chit" they have to "BAN" the tool....

In other provinces they define what is legal to use and thus there is no gray area.

I believe the primitive weapons society was already in the process working with the government to get these standards in place. The define a weapon has been happening for a few years already.

[nekred]

Originally Posted by dmcbride

I believe the primitive weapons society was already in the process working with the government to get these standards in place. The define a weapon has been happening for a few years already.

But it did not get DONE did it, this issue was brought up years ago and other provinces were ahead of the issue. Thus why he did not do it in BC... first no baiting and a spear is not in the definition of legal hunting equipment.

Furthermore the Alberta definition of archery is archaic as well and is meant for longbows... not fixed draw length bows, technically it would be illegal to use a bow that draws less than 28" in Alberta.

"This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head" How do you draw a 28" arrow to its head with a 26" fixed draw length bow?...

I know it is a technical detail but that is how we get caught unprepared because of lack of attention to details... that is what lawyers are paid to look for, details that were not paid attention to.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by 6mm rem

Im interested as well

Myself as well, my former club with 2400 members broke all association with the AFGA a couple of years ago. The $60,000 that used to go to AFGA was used to improve our facilities instead. With over 5000 members, SPFGA would be paying double that amount to AFGA every year.

[nekred]

Just a question AFGA was painted into a corner,

What would you guys propose as an option for them.

The option of defining legal hunting equipment was on table and is now too late. For AFGA it is kind of like trying to remove crap from the floor by putting it back into the cat.

or pick up a piece of poop from the clean end....

[nekred]

One last comment, how does withdrawing from AFGA help,

When do you need friends the most? when you are ok or in huge trouble.

If your buddy fell into a sewer.... you don't want to help because you don't want to get chit on your rope?

[Lefty-Canuck]

IMHO, they should have never mentioned banning anything, should have stated the bear was taken ethically and legally and mention legal tool definition talks are in progress.

Then survey the current membership.

Period.

My comment about membership is that many of us are AFGA members by default by belonging to affiliate clubs. I do not share the AFGA presidents sentiments and was never asked my personal opinion by them

LC

[brendan's dad]

[QUOTE=Newview01;3317320]A statement like this effectively allows hunters to be at the whims of public opinion. Will he support a complete ban on hunting in general when the public sees hunting as "archaic and barbaric"?

This whole situation has been blown way out of proportion and it is the honest, law abiding hunter who will suffer in the end.[/QUOTE]

Actually a law abiding hunter is already suffering... his name is Josh Bowmar!

[Jadham]

Originally Posted by diamond k

Very well stated

You can all get on the top of every hill and scream about how it is you god given right to hunt and anti hunters be damned but the future of hunting in indeed with general population and the elected representatives. The only way hunting goes away is if we choose to destroy it from the inside. Keep posting stupid videos, trespassing and poaching and watch it fall. Use respect, consider optics of what your doing and remember that each of your actions will determine the future and hunting will always be a part of our lives.

Agree, whether one likes to admit it or not.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by nekred

But it did not get DONE did it, this issue was brought up years ago and other provinces were ahead of the issue. Thus why he did not do it in BC... first no baiting and a spear is not in the definition of legal hunting equipment.

Furthermore the Alberta definition of archery is archaic as well and is meant for longbows... not fixed draw length bows, technically it would be illegal to use a bow that draws less than 28" in Alberta.

"This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head" How do you draw a 28" arrow to its head with a 26" fixed draw length bow?...

I know it is a technical detail but that is how we get caught unprepared because of lack of attention to details... that is what lawyers are paid to look for, details that were not paid attention to.

^this x1000. We needed those definitions updated 2 years ago, and thanks to all the internal bickering now it's being done with the NDP and anti-hunting biologists having the final say.

The government decided to ban it, not the AFGA. The AFGA is simply a useless politically tone deaf old boys club. Like an old dog that can't guard or hunt, but we feel a sense of loyalty to it so we allow it to lay on the porch. Till the house gets broken into.

We do not need 400 splinter clubs. We need a cohesive voice, and that will only happen if AFGA members decide to clean house.

[MathewsArcher]

Originally Posted by nekred

The problem is optics and wording, years ago I called for a definition of legal hunting equipment to be defined. It is in every other province but this one because no one wanted to ban another's choice.

I get that we want to stick together as hunters but when you define what you CAN use instead of what you CAN'T use the result is the same just the optics are better...

Then if your choice of hunting tool is not available you can lobby to get it added just how archery and muzzle loaders were added.... along with acceptable measurable guidelines as there is for archery, muzzle loader, crossbow, and rifle.

Now you could add atlatl, or spear with minimum projectile weights and cutting diameters.

But the AFGA and Alberta Government's hand s forced BECAUSE THEY DODGED THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS and now because nobody wants a to hold all or part of the media bag they have to "BAN" the tool....

In other provinces they define what is legal to use and thus there is no gray area.

Will the spear actually be banned, probably not, my guess is we will finally see the definition of legal hunting equipment incorporated into the legislation. Long overdue and consisted with almost every other province in Canada.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by HoytCRX32

You're absolutely right Cat!
I am a member of AGFA and do not recall being contacted as to what the association's official position should be. I think the executive went it (for the most part alone) which is completely unacceptable given the gravity of the issue. They should have canvassed the membership to determine the associations stance.

The executive don't listen to the members. This old boys club needs to be cleaned out. This is just another example of the incompetence of this group.
It isn't the biggest display however. Lots of balls dropped over the past 10 years.
Joining to enact change is a waste of time and money.
I feel sorry for future generations of hunters in this province.

[walking buffalo]

So much to catch up on here....

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

So when a rifle Hunter posts an inappropriate reaction to hunting an animal....do they stand behind him?

What about a black powder Hunter?

What about a crossbow Hunter?

What about a compound Bowhunter?

What about a traditional Bowhunter?

I feel that all tools should have a published minimum requirement (like many already do) to be deemed a legal hunting tool.

I think we can agree in the case of the speared bear that the bear was taken ethically (Hunter possessed the skills) and clean (bear died quickly as a result of the spear).

So take the tool out of the equation, and take the emotional response out of the reaction and the depiction video of the hunt and what do you end up with.

A Hunter who legally and ethical took a bear, recovered it in a timely fashion when it was safe to do so....the rest is open to OPINION. So now implement some minimum standards and you have a Hunter who legally and ethically took a bear in a timely fashion when it was safe to do so with an approved tool.

I disagree with the AFGA in supporting a ban...I think this could have been an opportunity to educate people on hunting and that we want to have a set of guidelines for all tools used in hunting. I think that would be the appropriate response. These are my personal thoughts only.

LC

And I agree with your opinion, with and addition that Baiting Bears will be next on the anti-hunting hit list.

Originally Posted by Toromir

Next to be banned - Bows.

Nope, baiting bears...

Originally Posted by nekred

But it did not get DONE did it, this issue was brought up years ago and other provinces were ahead of the issue. Thus why he did not do it in BC... first no baiting and a spear is not in the definition of legal hunting equipment.

Furthermore the Alberta definition of archery is archaic as well and is meant for longbows... not fixed draw length bows, technically it would be illegal to use a bow that draws less than 28" in Alberta.

"This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head" How do you draw a 28" arrow to its head with a 26" fixed draw length bow?...

I know it is a technical detail but that is how we get caught unprepared because of lack of attention to details... that is what lawyers are paid to look for, details that were not paid attention to.

For starters. Spear Hunting is LEGAL in B.C.

Archery regulations, and firearm regulations are NOT specific enough to eliminate any aspects of achieving desired weapon function.

Those 30-30 bullets don't have a minimum fps....

An archer is NOT required to draw any length before releasing the arrow....

In the end, it comes down to the personal actions of the hunter....

Originally Posted by MathewsArcher

Will the spear actually be banned, probably not, my guess is we will finally see the definition of legal hunting equipment incorporated into the legislation. Long overdue and consisted with almost every other province in Canada.

Yes, the spear will be banned in Alberta, but fortunately still legal in other provinces. The Premier's office sent an ORDER to F&W Policy to do so. Dear Leader has heard the internet people speak, and Dear Leader has spoken.


Huh....

[walking buffalo]

Quoting Wayne Lowry.

"I decided to support the Government of Alberta's decision to ban the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon.

As an organization, AFGA is called on often for our opinion on matters such as this and we will continue to give our opinion when these calls come. As president of AFGA it is my responsibility to answer these calls and to provide an opinion on matters such as this. In some cases we have had the luxury of having had the matter presented at an AFGA AGM, debated and voted on by club and zone delegates with a position being taken on the matter. That was not the case with regards to the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon."


http://globalnews.ca/news/2886138/al...spear-hunting/
"We’re trying to create a positive image of hunting and enjoying the outdoors…It’s really not something that people have been looking for as far as a choice of weapon to hunt with anyways, so let’s just go ahead and ban as a gesture of good faith.”


I spoke with Wayne for a couple of hours and in the end it was clear we would agree to disagree.

For everyone's clarification, BEFORE Wayne spoke to the media, the AFGA after executive consultation was officially was in support of defining and regulating spears and atlatls for hunting big game. It was Wayne's personal decision, without consultation to the executive or membership, to declare the AFGA was now in support of banning spears.

Take note of the last quote provided....
so let’s just go ahead and ban as a gesture of good faith.

Wayne decided to sacrifice hunters who use or support the use of spears and atlatls as a "Good Will Gesture" to the anti-hunters. This was confirmed in my discussion with him.

I assure you that this position was not supported by all of the AFGA executive.


This new AFGA position lies squarely on the president shoulders. It was his decision alone to change the AFGA's stance and he is not backing down.

Damn. I really hoped he would have taken this as a Ralph moment....

[Deer Hunter]

This is the afga's position. Whether or not all the executive supported it or not, whether it was the presidents hill to die on or not, doesn't matter.
Walking buff are you trying to excuse the afga and lay the blame on one guy in an association? Nice try.
Use this situation as an example of how the afga works and expect more of the same going forward, likely on more important subjects.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Quoting Wayne Lowry.

"I decided to support the Government of Alberta's decision to ban the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon.

As an organization, AFGA is called on often for our opinion on matters such as this and we will continue to give our opinion when these calls come. As president of AFGA it is my responsibility to answer these calls and to provide an opinion on matters such as this. In some cases we have had the luxury of having had the matter presented at an AFGA AGM, debated and voted on by club and zone delegates with a position being taken on the matter. That was not the case with regards to the use of spears as a legal hunting weapon."


http://globalnews.ca/news/2886138/al...spear-hunting/
"We’re trying to create a positive image of hunting and enjoying the outdoors…It’s really not something that people have been looking for as far as a choice of weapon to hunt with anyways, so let’s just go ahead and ban as a gesture of good faith.”


I spoke with Wayne for a couple of hours and in the end it was clear we would agree to disagree.

For everyone's clarification, BEFORE Wayne spoke to the media, the AFGA after executive consultation was officially was in support of defining and regulating spears and atlatls for hunting big game. It was Wayne's personal decision, without consultation to the executive or membership, to declare the AFGA was now in support of banning spears.

Take note of the last quote provided....
so let’s just go ahead and ban as a gesture of good faith.

Wayne decided to sacrifice hunters who use or support the use of spears and atlatls as a "Good Will Gesture" to the anti-hunters. This was confirmed in my discussion with him.

I assure you that this position was not supported by all of the AFGA executive.


This new AFGA position lies squarely on the president shoulders. It was his decision alone to change the AFGA's stance and he is not backing down.

Damn. I really hoped he would have taken this as a Ralph moment....

If that is the case, it is time that Wayne Lowry was removed from that position. In fact, for making such a statement, which he new to contradict the wishes of the executive of the AFGA, and therefore the AFGA, I would be in favor of his AFGA membership being revoked.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

This is the afga's position. Whether or not all the executive supported it or not, whether it was the presidents hill to die on or not, doesn't matter.
Walking buff are you trying to excuse the afga and lay the blame on one guy in an association? Nice try.
Use this situation as an example of how the afga works and expect more of the same going forward, likely on more important subjects.

You're right in saying that this is the new AFGA position.
You did notice that I said so in my post.
Of course it matters....

Excuse, Nice try? How, why do you make this stuff up?

I am stating facts, which are needed for people to decide what they think of the situation and for how they will respond.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

This new AFGA position lies squarely on the president shoulders. It was his decision alone to change the AFGA's stance and he is not backing down.
....

No it lies on the afga members, executive and all others involved who enabled this association to act as Alberta's hunting representation even when it was apparent it has been lacking communication, information and direction for many years.

[albertabighorn]

Why give the afga any of my hard earned money and time when they never asked there membership. The president should be asked to step down if this is how he went about things.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

No it lies on the afga members, executive and all others involved who enabled this association to act as Alberta's hunting representation even when it was apparent it has been lacking communication, information and direction for many years.

The president was acting on behalf of the AFGA, so it is up to the executive of the AFGA to either support his position, or to remove him from that position, and then give another statement that represents the AFGAs executive's position on the situation. By not removing the president from the position, they are in fact letting his statement represent the AFGA.

[Deer Hunter]

Old boys' clubs don't remove old boys.

[Full Curl Earl]

I'd like to know how the AFGA decided previously to support spears and Atlatl's?
I was not given a vote!
When will we be allowed to run critters off coulees again? It was effective, and I'm guessing some here would feel Ethical? Imagine a video of a hunter, pushing a mule across the prairie and over the edge, harvesting his deer. Its primitive, technically difficult, and exhausting.
Our government better get at defining some of these backward steps in evolution, before all hunting is viewed as barbaric and wearing a large bullseye.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

I'd like to know how the AFGA decided previously to support spears and Atlatl's?
I was not given a vote!
When will we be allowed to run critters off coulees again? It was effective, and I'm guessing some here would feel Ethical? Imagine a video of a hunter, pushing a mule across the prairie and over the edge, harvesting his deer. Its primitive, technically difficult, and exhausting.
Our government better get at defining some of these backward steps in evolution, before all hunting is viewed as barbaric and wearing a large bullseye.

Are you purchasing your own AFGA membership? A membership at FMFG no longer includes an AFGA membership, as FMFG is no longer associated with AFGA.

[Full Curl Earl]

Yes, although its bewildering more and more each year.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Full Curl Earl

Yes, although its bewildering more and more each year.

So do you feel that you are getting any real value from the AFGA membership?