Alberta record Rainbow CAUGHT!

[HOGSLAYER]

Originally Posted by fishman

Those fish escaped from thier pen this spring will be 11 years so most of them have died, they still have the odd fish escape but from my undestanding a diffrent strain and not as big, the big fish ended up in the river below the dam

Wot Woot Some body give this man a cigar

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by Kyle

The difference is that the rainbows escaped at mostly 2-5 lbs. They were not released weighing 40+ lbs. They grew 95% of their weight/length in a natural environment.

deifenbaker is a natural rainbow trout environment??????? hmmmm.

[fishinggeek]

🌲🌲🌲🌲👀🌲🌲🌲🌲

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

It is sad to see truly spectacular specimens get eclipsed in the books by escaped GMO's.

IGFA themselves may not discriminate, but that does not speak to the fact that these animals are in no way comparable.

I love that you incorrectly applied the term GMO in your response, as you are always so quick to point out the errors in others whenever this term is incorrectly used on an AO thread.
How many all tackle world records recognized by the IGFA are sterile fish? I would imagine many if not most, which is why they are significantly larger than what would be considered norm for that species.
Additionally, how manipulated are rainbow trout genetics in general? Do you not think that 150 years of selective breeding has tainted any argument against the validity of these records? Should we only be accepting records from genetically pure natural strains? Should we only accept records if the fish is native to the watershed it was caught? If we negate hatchery triploids (not GMO), where does it end and how would argue against accepting anything but pure strain fish from their native, unaltered watersheds?

[RayL42]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

I love that you incorrectly applied the term GMO in your response, as you are always so quick to point out the errors in others whenever this term is incorrectly used on an AO thread.
How many all tackle world records recognized by the IGFA are sterile fish? I would imagine many if not most, which is why they are significantly larger than what would be considered norm for that species.
Additionally, how manipulated are rainbow trout genetics in general? Do you not think that 150 years of selective breeding has tainted any argument against the validity of these records? Should we only be accepting records from genetically pure natural strains? Should we only accept records if the fish is native to the watershed it was caught? If we negate hatchery triploids (not GMO), where does it end and how would argue against accepting anything but pure strain fish from their native, unaltered watersheds?

Why are Triploids not considered GMO?

as I understand the process through heat and pressure a third chromosome
is created.

[LCCFisherman]

Triploids of any species shouldn't count IMO.. and the RNTR record definitely shouldn't count.

[EZM]

Going to get a bag of popcorn ready to go in the microwave ............

There are sure to be some great arguments in both camps here.

I would offer, however, that most IGFA records are saltwater, and therefore, are probably not trips. I would also be surprised if more than a few of them were trips as well.

It would be interesting to me to have a distinction noted in the books - just for a point of reference, nothing more. I wouldn't be the guy discounting a record based on genetics - But ....I'd just like to see the comparative difference. To me, it almost like they are two different population groups really. It would be cool to see.

[BeeGuy]

The term GMO is applied in many ways, however in its strict sense, it refers to the insertion of genes from one organism into another.

Actual GMO fish are in development, but do not have administrative approvals to go to market.

Dief fish are commercial cultivars and triploid. These fish were commercial property before they escaped, and although I do not know for certain, it is very likely that the company responsible did not have permits allowing the release of fish. Whether the release was accidental or not, the company was likely in violation of provincial legislation and operating conditions.

Back to my primary point, IGFA is behind the times.

If the Basspro tank spilt into Nose Creek, would those fish be elgible for records?

IGFA afaik does not have any temporal criteria in the rules to identify when illegally released commercial fish become legit contenders.

[Fishfinder]

Originally Posted by fishinggeek

🌲🌲🌲🌲👀🌲🌲🌲🌲

Lol.


Ugh I went through all that n still no pic OP?

Tease!!!

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Fishfinder

Lol.


Ugh I went through all that n still no pic OP?

Tease!!!

I am getting heck for even mentioning it on here. Lololololo

I will get a pic, just need to keep at him.

I could show you a pic of a nice Salmon if that would help.

Jamie

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

The term GMO is applied in many ways, however in its strict sense, it refers to the insertion of genes from one organism into another.

Actual GMO fish are in development, but do not have administrative approvals to go to market.

Dief fish are commercial cultivars and triploid. These fish were commercial property before they escaped, and although I do not know for certain, it is very likely that the company responsible did not have permits allowing the release of fish. Whether the release was accidental or not, the company was likely in violation of provincial legislation and operating conditions.

Back to my primary point, IGFA is behind the times.

If the Basspro tank spilt into Nose Creek, would those fish be elgible for records?

IGFA afaik does not have any temporal criteria in the rules to identify when illegally released commercial fish become legit contenders.

Ok, so we have cleared the air that these fish are, in fact, not GMO fish.
Now, let me further defend these fish as legit records.
What is the difference between a hatchery released fish and a hatchery fish that was accidentally released? What is the difference between a hatchery triploid and a natural triploid? If only one fish escaped from the net pen, grew to 48 pounds, and was then caught by Sean, should it count then?
Comparing Sean's catch to realeasing aquarium fish that are already of significant size is a weak argument, as it was already stated these fish were roughly 2 to 5 pounds when they escaped.
I can go all night

[BeeGuy]

Commercially raised agricultural animals have no place in the record books IMO.

What is the difference between them escaping at 2-5lbs, 5-10lbs, or 10-20lbs.

According to IGFA, there is no distinction made, which would make escaped basspro fish equally legit. I think no commercial fish should qualify and that is not an unreasonable sentiment.

[BeeGuy]

We had a situation several years ago where commercial arctic char escaped from a fish farm and ended up in glenmore res.

Should these fish qualify for a new provincial record?

Should they qualify for IGFA categories?

Clearly not.

Suggesting that these are "hatchery fish" and therefore equivalent to fish produced for stocking is misleading.

[AppleJax]

...........

[BGSH]

All records should count, if it's a rainbow it's a rainbow, if it's a waleye it's a walleye, if it's a fish it's a fish, if it's a record then it's a record.

[BGSH]

Originally Posted by AppleJax

...........

I would love some popcorn, come on down and bring some

[saskpikeman]

There are triploids stocked all over in bc and I believe in Manitoba as well I don't see anybody with there panties in a bunch about that, but if they are a record size in sask lots of arms up in the air......

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by BGSH

All records should count, if it's a rainbow it's a rainbow, if it's a waleye it's a walleye, if it's a fish it's a fish, if it's a record then it's a record.

Shhh. The big boys are debating......

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by saskpikeman

There are triploids stocked all over in bc and I believe in Manitoba as well I don't see anybody with there panties in a bunch about that, but if they are a record size in sask lots of arms up in the air......

Stop pretending these were stocked fish. They were commercial property from an aquaculture facility. These were agricultural animals from a farm.


Again, a fair comparison is farm raised elk escaping into the wild.

Is an elk with a farm tag in its ear going to make it into B&C?

My point from my first post is only that IGFA is behind the times. This has has nothing to do with SK, nor any individuals.

It is about regulations, and the lack thereof.


It will be interesting to see if this rainbow from a private lake in Calgary qualifies for any provincial kudos.

[BGSH]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Stop pretending these were stocked fish. They were commercial property from an aquaculture facility. These were agricultural animals from a farm.


Again, a fair comparison is farm raised elk escaping into the wild.

Is an elk with a farm tag in its ear going to make it into B&C?

My point from my first post is only that IGFA is behind the times. This has has nothing to do with SK, nor any individuals.

It is about regulations, and the lack thereof.


It will be interesting to see if this rainbow from a private lake in Calgary qualifies for any provincial kudos.

Hey Beeguy whats up buddy with all due respect were talking about fish here not Elk, Elk is a totally different species, don't think there are any ElkBows but if there was i am going to catch it and it will be in the record books.
It's not the fairest comparison because Elk is not a fish, I am happy for Sean that he and his brother, told him that many times, they have caught many records that are in the books and not up for discussion, if i catch a 30 pound bow in the nsr tomorrow is that not aloud to be a record fish?

[MoFugger21]

Good lord BeeGuy....

My thoughts on it all, summed up pretty good:

[TyreeUM]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Commercially raised agricultural animals have no place in the record books IMO.

What is the difference between them escaping at 2-5lbs, 5-10lbs, or 10-20lbs.

According to IGFA, there is no distinction made, which would make escaped basspro fish equally legit. I think no commercial fish should qualify and that is not an unreasonable sentiment.

One difference is those fish would likely never attain world record size. Most hatchery rainbows are "commercial fish", regardless of if they are grown for food or for stocking, so technically are you saying no hatchery fish should qualify for a record?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

One difference is those fish would likely never attain world record size. Most hatchery rainbows are "commercial fish", regardless of if they are grown for food or for stocking, so technically are you saying no hatchery fish should qualify for a record?

That isn't a legit difference. Factually, they are equal. The point is, whether they would qualify or not.

Suggesting that they'd never get big enough does not acknowledge the issue of whether privately raised fish become eligible once they escape.

There is no size cut-off, nor is there a time line for how long commercial fish need to be in the wild.

Whether they are free for 5 days or 5 years does not play into the requirements, nor does the size at which they escape play into the requirements.

According to IGFA there is no difference whether a fish escapes as fry and lives in the wild for 11 years or whether it escapes at 60lbs and lives in the wild for 1 day.

IGFA needs to get with the times.

Agricultural animals have no place in the record books regardless of when they escaped or at what size. Just my opinion.

[ESOXangler]

I believe only a natural occurring fish should count! Right from the red it was fertilized in! I'm happy for the monster rainbows that were caught! And I'm be damn proud if it was myself! But those ain't natural, that's all there is too it! Genetics will ruin the sport in the quest for bigger and bigger!

And the elk comparison is bang on! It was nurtured by man, it'd be damn cool to shoot but it ain't natural! It was touched by the hand of man!

[pickrel pat]

Gotta agree with essox and bee. Still a nice trophy and accomplishment though. Congratz.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by TyreeUM

One difference is those fish would likely never attain world record size. Most hatchery rainbows are "commercial fish", regardless of if they are grown for food or for stocking, so technically are you saying no hatchery fish should qualify for a record?

So, what if escaped bass pro fish did obtain record size?

Then what?

Should commercially raised, escaped fish be eligible?

[saskpikeman]

So no North American browns should be records... They aren't "natural"

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by pickrel pat

Gotta agree with essox and bee. Still a nice trophy and accomplishment though. Congratz.

Ya of course! Those fish are maximum ridiculous!

They should intentionally stock some just for the tourism $$$ alone.

Enormous recreational value.

[pickrel pat]

Originally Posted by saskpikeman

So no North American browns should be records... They aren't "natural"

Were they conceived in captivity?

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by saskpikeman

So no North American browns should be records... They aren't "natural"

Really missed the whole discussion here!