Fishing Violation - Page 4

Lefty-Canuck · #91 07-26-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boot

-1
Bah....!

I was talking about the friend who apparently coerced the OP's Father into breaking the law....

LC

Crusty · #92 07-26-2011, 11:05 AM

Dark, thanks for the 2 cents worth, but hopefully Gray's father will make wiser choices in the future and consult with someone who is fluent in English and knowledgeable about our fishing regulations in the future. Sometimes the lessons we were learn the hard way have the most impact.

Gust · #93 07-26-2011, 11:34 AM

It's a hard lesson but thems the breaks.

Gray, forward me in a Private Message all the lakes and rivers your Dad frequents,, tell me his first language and I'll spend a day translating the regs,, you could go over them afterwards for semantics and noticeable errors.

And tell your Dad to drop the friend or have him kick-in for the probably hefty fine. Or tell your Dad to join a fishing club where there are members who speak his language, it would also immerse him amongst english speaking people.

And, I think it takes some courage to post a pretty heavy infraction.

Lefty-Canuck · #94 07-26-2011, 11:38 AM

GM....your generosity never ceases to amaze me. A lot of folks here could learn alot from you (MYSELF INCLUDED).

Bravo....insert slow clap here...

LC

Fishfinder · #95 07-26-2011, 01:38 PM

gray · #96 07-26-2011, 07:13 PM

For those who asked, I do think the four the friend kept were walleye. Based on a quick search of the regulation book, if this was lac ste anne (suggested by the other poster), then the limit is 0. Two rods or three, I am hoping my dad ended up with the lesser of the two charges (compared to the overlimit charge).

My dad showed me the ticket when i went to see him on the weekend, but I was a bit shaken and upset at the time and didn't look closely at the detail. All I remember was that the ticket listed a description of the three rods. I don't remember seeing a fee but I will check again this weekend.

For you trolls:

My dad came to Canada in his 50s. He's been enrolled in two or three new immigrant English classes when he came here. I think many of you don't realize how difficult it is to learn a second language at that age. He had to learn English in order to get his Canadian citizenship. He passed the knowledge exam each time, but failed the conversation portion twice. He got lucky because a couple years after that, immigration introduced a new rule that people over 55 do not have to pass the communication test. I think the government recognizes how difficult it is for for older people to learn a completely new language.

Furthermore, my dad is very hardworking, but higher education was not an option from where we came from and back during that time. In Canada, all he can get are manual labor jobs, working with other immigrants who don't speak english well. He has very limited opportunity to converse with other English speaking people each day.

I had to take ESL when I came here as a six year old child. Even for my young mind, I had to be in ESL for three years before I had a good grasp of the language. My brother, a bit older than me, still speaks with an accent to this day. You can blame immigrants all you want for not bothering to learn English/French, but I know my dad spent his time working to support our family. My family is not wealthy, but I am proud that my brother and I were both able to get through unversity and got out debtfree. Because of this, I will do whatever it takes to help my dad through this, even if it means dealing with you nasty trolls.

The point, again (as some of you already know, others not so much) - My dad understands there are fishing regulations, but because he didn't speak English, he relied on his friend's interpretation (who would have known you can't trust your friends?) I came here because we were worried that this fine was going to be in the thousands (because of the mandatory court date, we didn't know what to expect). Based on a couple of the responses, it might be a couple hundred, and in that case, I can put aside some money and pay it for my dad. Hopefully that will be the end of it. If he can keep his fishing license, i will be sure to educate him more on the regulations. Of course, the challenge is that his "friends" take him to these so called sweet new fishing spots, but because my dad doesn't know English, he can't come back and tell me what lake it is and I have trouble keeping him on track.

Thank you GustavMahler. Hopefully when my dad gets back in the mood for fishing, your help would be great. I am (now) familiar with the alberta regulations website and will be referring to it more. Are there any other resources I should be aware of in terms of staying out of trouble?

Anyway, I am done explaining myself to the people who cannot help but be rude and inconsiderate. This will be my last post on this forum.
So thank you to all the rest who provided useful information or at least reserved judgment. If any kind persons have any more advice or would like to find out the outcome, please feel free to pm me.

blackpheasant · #97 07-26-2011, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gray

For those who asked, I do think the four the friend kept were walleye. Based on a quick search of the regulation book, if this was lac ste anne (suggested by the other poster), then the limit is 0. Two rods or three, I am hoping my dad ended up with the lesser of the two charges (compared to the overlimit charge).

My dad showed me the ticket when i went to see him on the weekend, but I was a bit shaken and upset at the time and didn't look closely at the detail. All I remember was that the ticket listed a description of the three rods. I don't remember seeing a fee but I will check again this weekend.

For you trolls:

My dad came to Canada in his 50s. He's been enrolled in two or three new immigrant English classes when he came here. I think many of you don't realize how difficult it is to learn a second language at that age. He had to learn English in order to get his Canadian citizenship. He passed the knowledge exam each time, but failed the conversation portion twice. He got lucky because a couple years after that, immigration introduced a new rule that people over 55 do not have to pass the communication test. I think the government recognizes how difficult it is for for older people to learn a completely new language.

Furthermore, my dad is very hardworking, but higher education was not an option from where we came from and back during that time. In Canada, all he can get are manual labor jobs, working with other immigrants who don't speak english well. He has very limited opportunity to converse with other English speaking people each day.

I had to take ESL when I came here as a six year old child. Even for my young mind, I had to be in ESL for three years before I had a good grasp of the language. My brother, a bit older than me, still speaks with an accent to this day. You can blame immigrants all you want for not bothering to learn English/French, but I know my dad spent his time working to support our family. My family is not wealthy, but I am proud that my brother and I were both able to get through unversity and got out debtfree. Because of this, I will do whatever it takes to help my dad through this, even if it means dealing with you nasty trolls.

The point, again (as some of you already know, others not so much) - My dad understands there are fishing regulations, but because he didn't speak English, he relied on his friend's interpretation (who would have known you can't trust your friends?) I came here because we were worried that this fine was going to be in the thousands (because of the mandatory court date, we didn't know what to expect). Based on a couple of the responses, it might be a couple hundred, and in that case, I can put aside some money and pay it for my dad. Hopefully that will be the end of it. If he can keep his fishing license, i will be sure to educate him more on the regulations. Of course, the challenge is that his "friends" take him to these so called sweet new fishing spots, but because my dad doesn't know English, he can't come back and tell me what lake it is and I have trouble keeping him on track.

Thank you GustavMahler. Hopefully when my dad gets back in the mood for fishing, your help would be great. I am (now) familiar with the alberta regulations website and will be referring to it more. Are there any other resources I should be aware of in terms of staying out of trouble?

Anyway, I am done explaining myself to the people who cannot help but be rude and inconsiderate. This will be my last post on this forum.
So thank you to all the rest who provided useful information or at least reserved judgment. If any kind persons have any more advice or would like to find out the outcome, please feel free to pm me.

Well thanks for dropping by....try to stay longer next time eh

baitfisher83 · #98 07-26-2011, 08:55 PM

Your first and last post are talking about ways for your father to worm his way out of poaching charges....Wow...

AndrewM · #99 07-26-2011, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baitfisher83

Your first and last post are talking about ways for your father to worm his way out of poaching charges....Wow...

He admitted his Dad messed up and is going to pay the fine. I don't think he is worming his way out of anything. I think he learnt a valuable lesson and I am willing to bet it won't happen again.

Ken07AOVette · #**100** 07-26-2011, 09:05 PM

So everyone that answered your thread that did not offer help, or worse yet criticized your father for unwillingly engaging in poaching is a troll?

You can slant it however you prefer, but the fact of the matter is however it happened, a law was broken. The onus is always on the person holding the rod/firearm/bow etc (this is a hunting and fishing forum) to KNOW and ABIDE by the laws set forth by the Municipal, Provincial and Federal Governments. I know you admit that, but yet you fight us?

Basically, "he tried to learn English but was unable to" is not an excuse.

Does he have a drivers license just out of curiosity?

blackpheasant · #**101** 07-26-2011, 09:09 PM

Hopefully next time he won't be quite as careless...

slivers86 · #**102** 07-26-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewM

He admitted his Dad messed up and is going to pay the fine. I don't think he is worming his way out of anything. I think he learnt a valuable lesson and I am willing to bet it won't happen again.

x2

Thread closed? PUH-LEAASE?

midgetwaiter · #**103** 07-27-2011, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baitfisher83

Your first and last post are talking about ways for your father to worm his way out of poaching charges....Wow...

No, his first and last posts were about what kind of fine his dad could expect, at no time did he say anything about trying to get away with something.

Quote:

So anyway, my dad has a mandatory court appearance coming up in August and I am wondering what I should expect. I am anticipating a fine and possibly his license revoked. Does anyone know how much the fine would be for having too many lines? I heard these fines can go up into the thousands which we really can't afford. Is there any way to get the fine reduced in court? If anyone has any input, that would be great. Thank you.

Do you have trouble reading English? Perhaps Gray can recommend an ESL class for you and the other people that jumped on your misdirected wagon.

Unknown303 · #**104** 07-27-2011, 07:52 AM

Wow pretty sad day on this forum when you can't just help someone out. Sure his dad was in the wrong, and he never denied it. He just wanted information. Well played everyone, I can only hope I screw up just once so everyone can jump down my throat.

Stay classy AOF.

iliketrout · #**105** 07-27-2011, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gray

Is there any way to get the fine reduced in court? If anyone has any input, that would be great. Thank you.

The above are the last two lines of the original post. Clearly gray is asking for two things. 1) Input, and 2) how to get the charges reduced in court. Why should the charges be reduced in court? I haven't heard a good reason.

Know your audience. I would expect the same types of responses if a guy went on a MADD forum and asked for a good lawyer to get him off his DUI charges. Or why don't we go on Liberal forum and try to convince them that the gun registry is a waste of time?

I, like many others on this forum, take conservation pretty seriously. If we don't, who will?

This has nothing to do with staying "classy". IMO the best way to stay classy is to not poach in the first place.

Gray wanted input and he got input. I'm sorry that the truth hurt his feelings. It's also too bad that he chose not to be "classy" by calling those who disagreed with him "trolls".

chubbdarter · #**106** 07-27-2011, 08:42 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wkxA...eature=related

billie · #**107** 07-27-2011, 09:02 AM

I got the impression that 'Gray' was a daughter, not a son.........interesting

firegod74 · #**108** 07-27-2011, 09:10 AM

What I got out of Grays last post is that his dad passed the English knowledge test but not the communication test.... If he passed the English knowledge, he must be able to understand it. And can read his own regulations.

Lefty-Canuck · #**109** 07-27-2011, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegod74

What I got out of Grays last post is that his dad passed the English knowledge test but not the communication test.... If he passed the English knowledge, he must be able to understand it. And can read his own regulations.

^^^
good point....while I feel like Grays Dad didn't do it malisciously....the ignorance card has never worked for me, "I didn't know I was speeding..." I still got the ticket and demerits....

LC

tacklerunner · #**110** 07-27-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iliketrout

The above are the last two lines of the original post. Clearly gray is asking for two things. 1) Input, and 2) how to get the charges reduced in court. Why should the charges be reduced in court? I haven't heard a good reason.

Know your audience. I would expect the same types of responses if a guy went on a MADD forum and asked for a good lawyer to get him off his DUI charges. Or why don't we go on Liberal forum and try to convince them that the gun registry is a waste of time?

I, like many others on this forum, take conservation pretty seriously. If we don't, who will?

This has nothing to do with staying "classy". IMO the best way to stay classy is to not poach in the first place.

Gray wanted input and he got input. I'm sorry that the truth hurt his feelings. It's also too bad that he chose not to be "classy" by calling those who disagreed with him "trolls".

x2

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegod74

What I got out of Grays last post is that his dad passed the English knowledge test but not the communication test.... If he passed the English knowledge, he must be able to understand it. And can read his own regulations.

x2

nichead · #**111** 07-27-2011, 12:07 PM

I was there and saw the whole thing. I'm 99% sure of this because I heard the officer tell him about the stony plain court appearance and all the other details seem to match up.

Here's what I understood took place from watching, overhearing and talking to the officers afterwards when they came to check out licenses.

Your dads "friend" was fishing about 10 feet away with a rod and your dad was sitting in a chair with 2 or 3 rods out. The friend kept checking back and talking with your dad, I never saw any fish get caught by either of them but within about 30min the f&w showed up. From what the officers told me they were watching from a distance and witnessed the multiple rods and when checking out the stuff found some walleye as well. Your dads friend was translating and told the cops that your dad claimed the other rods were "some ladys" They also said they didn't know they were not allowed to keep the fish. The officers asked them to clean up their mess and your dads friend took his guiness bottle and threw it in the bush, they were checking their vehicle and while writing up your dads ticket the friend had the nerve to go back to the spot and start fishing again. Officers came back and bitched him out about littering the bottle and then explained the charges and court appearance. It all seemed pretty confusing with the language barrier and translations and your dads friend playing dumb.

It was actually very amusing to see how stupid your dads friend handled the entire situation, admitting guilt and just accepting it and trying to be so friendly with the officers haha.

Oh yeah and either your dad or his friend didn't have a license as well that's another thing the officer told us. I'm going to assume maybe your father didn't have a license, is he over 65? If that's the case he didn't need one.

Now here's my 2 cents.
Your dads friend totally set him up, I watched as he purposely stood away from your dad and the other rods and only once in a while checked in, that seemed suspicious to me even before the officers came. I also highly doubt that he didn't know about the no walleye limit, from the way he played ignorant to the officers you could just tell he was lying.

I don't doubt that your dad didn't realize what was going on, I think his friend took advantage of him. but you know what? That's no excuse, being ignorant is no excuse, either is not being able to speak english. The law is the law and your father broke the law. It's like trying to get out of a parking ticket by saying you couldn't read the sign and that your friend said it was okay to park there. I do believe your father did not mean to break the law but the fact is he did, and got caught.

I suggest you just be honest to the judge, tell him your dad went fishing and didn't look up the rules, say he has no excuse. Yes his friend took advantage of him big time but he still broke the rules.

The whole not being able to speak english thing is really the worst thing you can use for a reason, not only is it an unacceptable excuse, it makes him and your entire race look bad.

If you wouldn't have brought up the not being able to speak another language I think people would be a lot more sympathetic, and it's not because we're racist, it's because it's just using a lame excuse to get out of trouble. You have no reason to being it up.

Take that away and I can feel bad for your dad. I know if I was in another province or country and went fishing with a friend I probably would expect him to fill me in on most of the rules and regulations instead of havign to research it myself. I'd also probably kick his ass and throw him in the lake if I found out he used me like your dads friend used him.

Maybe you should consider talking to his friend and make him pay the fines.

pickrel pat · #**112** 07-27-2011, 12:24 PM

yup.... as his son, i would be having a friendly little chat with his "friend"!

Redfrog · #**113** 07-27-2011, 12:35 PM

Well sounds like a couple guys got caught breaking the rules. Happens everyday. we actually pay people to catch the rule breakers. Sorry no sympathy here. The regs are free. Anyone who is fishing is responsible to understand and follow them.

No English? What language did you expect? If I went to France, Germany or any where else I planned to emigrate to, I would have an idea what the working language was and if the citizen requirement says a working knowledge then I'd expect to be responsible to learn enough to follow the regs and function in my new country. No surprise there.

It sounds like with the request on how to reduce the charges and the excuse of not being able to learn a working knowledge of English in many years that the laws only apply to some people and not others.

I understand your father worked hard, so did Mine and many others. Doesn't give anyone a free pass. We actually expect people to work hard and make a better life. That doesn't make you special, it makes you a citizen.

I also know everything is not black or white but if your dad had met his first obligation, to learn English, then he wouldn't have troubles with the second. Two kids in University and no one can help him learn enough English to get by? HMMMM?

And yes if I wanted to move some where else I would be learning the language.

boot · #**114** 07-27-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote: